I am probably going to open a whole new can worms here. I might regret opening later, but some of the topics being discussed really got me thinking about things. One of the things said that really kind of got me going on this was:

Pattygreen: Christians (usually conservative republicans) for the most part try to live moral, virtuous, nonsinful lives.

I am not a Christian and I live a moral, virtuous, and for the most part nonsinful life. I know several people who live the same, and are not Christian, and have conservative beliefs.

Cleo's Mom: First of all, "conservative republican" is redundant, because they are all conservative. I don't think there are any moderate republicans left particularly among those elected to office.

However, I just wonder if it is MORAL to mislead or outright lie, because listen to what these conservative republicans have said:

Dana Perino said on Fox: We did not have a domestic attack during bush's administration.

A month later Mary Matalin said: bush inherited 9/11 from Clinton.

Yesterday, Rudy Giuliani said that we never had a domestic attack under bush but we had one under Obama.

Now, I ask you - do these people think the American public is really that stupid? Apparently. Those on the right just make things up and keep repeating it. And when they repeat it often enough eventually some people begin to believe it.

They reduce things to some emotional, hate filled sound bite: death panels, obamacare, socialism, hitler, nazi.

This is because they are unable to engage in meaningful, intelligent, fact-based discussions. Maybe they don't want to do that because they don't have the facts on their side.

First I am a moderate Republican. I do tend to lean a little more to the right, but on some issues I lean to the left. Some things I can lean pretty right, and others I lean pretty far left. It really depends on the issue. I'd like to think that would make me moderate. I know many people who are moderate Republicans also. So we are still out there. There are some politicians who are still moderate also.

Second just because you are a Republican does not mean that you can not have a intelligent, meaningful, fact-based conversation. That is like saying liberals have their heads in clouds and live in fantasy nerf world filled with rainbows and butterflies.

Both sides sling mud back and forth. Both sides have their hate filled idiots. Both sides have their good and bad points. Both sides LIE, LIE, and LIE some more.

I get so sick and tired of hearing about how the Republicans have screwed everything up...I mean really they did it all alone.....no help from the left at all???

I personally feel that if you lean too far left or right you can't have a very grip on reality, and when our politicans lean too far left or right it's not good for our country either way. I hope someday too see more moderate politicans in office.

Hey everyone,

Palin starts her new show today. April Fools, the perfect day for her to do it.

I honestly don't think they will be happy until some wacko like Timothy McVeigh assasinates the president!!

Is that really what you think? I am against the HC bill, but I certainly would never want to see anyone, especially the President, killed. You have a nerve to say such a thing. Is that your mindset? Cause I recall seeing a poster of Bush that liberals had with his neck in a noose. Did they really want him assassinated?

Is that really what you think? I am against the HC bill, but I certainly would never want to see anyone, especially the President, killed. You have a nerve to say such a thing. Is that your mindset? Cause I recall seeing a poster of Bush that liberals had with his neck in a noose. Did they really want him assassinated?

When people cheer at Hannity's mention of domestic terrorist timothy mcveigh, it isn't a great leap to conclude that THEIR mindset is such that they want people (president?) in the government dead.

The low information voters think Hannity is a prophet like Beck and Oreilly and Limbuck. Not one of those yahoos think they incited anything. Look at the idiot Oreilly and Dr. Tiller. He helped the passing of the Dr. for sure as he hoodwinked the idiot who took his take on the situation seriously. Those are some dangerous people and Michigan proved that religion in the wrong mind is dangerous.

If the tea party is legit (which everyone on here knows I don't believe) then we should see them marching with signs supporting not only financial reform for wall street but for the following to reduce that deficit that they claim to care so much about:

This new Quinnipiac University poll shows the strongly populist--and traditionally Democratic--leanings of Americans when it comes to bread and butter issues.

The Quinnipiac University poll found that 60 percent of Americans among both major political parties think raising income taxes on households making more than $250,000 should be a main tenet of the government's efforts to tame the deficit. More than 70 percent, including a majority of Republicans, say those making more than $1 million should pay more.

But 80 percent say raising taxes on those making less than that should not be part of the government's approach. Moreover, most oppose touching Medicare and Social Security - two long-term drivers of the budget deficit over the coming decades....

Obama's 2011 budget proposal and most of his fellow Democrats favor eliminating tax breaks for individuals making more than $200,000 and for households making more than $250,000, which were enacted in 2001 and 2003.

Not surprisingly, many more Democrats than Republicans back hiking taxes on those making more, though 56 percent of Republicans did support raising taxes on those making more than $1 million, the poll found.

There was only a slim partisan divide, with only slightly fewer Republicans opposed to cutting the growth of the government health plan for the elderly, Medicare or Social Security, to help the deficit.

The American public, even Republicans, want basic economic fairness and recognize that taxing the people who make a lot of money is a helluva lot fairer than cutting Social Security and Medicare for the rest of us. It's the basic principle Democrats have operated on for decades.

If the deficit commission really wants to cut entitlements, perhaps they should consider the quasi-entitlement program defense contractors, which has been a pretty significant contributor to the bloated budget deficit in the past decade, as the Project on Defense Alternatives has shown. That, combined with some well placed tax increases, should go a long way to putting the country back on a sustainable fiscal track.

Word to your mother. (as my dd would say)

Long but interesting read.

Some right-wingers ignore facts as they rewrite U.S. history - Yahoo! News

Edited April 2, 201016 yr by LeighaMason

There should be a flat tax for everybody, That's fair. If you make ten dollars, you pay a dollar. 10%. THEN the Government should live within their means. If that means no one gets a free ride, If that means they can't pay for HC for everybody, If that means they have to get rid of some federal employees, If that means they have to cut some programs and spending, oh well. Even the best among us have to live with what we got. There is no getting around it. If you make 30,000. a year, that's all you have to spend. No more borrowing!

There should be a flat tax for everybody, That's fair. If you make ten dollars, you pay a dollar. 10%. THEN the Government should live within their means. If that means no one gets a free ride, If that means they can't pay for HC for everybody, If that means they have to get rid of some federal employees, If that means they have to cut some programs and spending, oh well. Even the best among us have to live with what we got. There is no getting around it. If you make 30,000. a year, that's all you have to spend. No more borrowing!

Didn't you say a few days ago that you still owed money on your rental property? If so, based on the argument above, you don't even live by what you are mandating, why should we?

There should be a flat tax for everybody, That's fair. If you make ten dollars, you pay a dollar. 10%. THEN the Government should live within their means. If that means no one gets a free ride, If that means they can't pay for HC for everybody, If that means they have to get rid of some federal employees, If that means they have to cut some programs and spending, oh well. Even the best among us have to live with what we got. There is no getting around it. If you make 30,000. a year, that's all you have to spend. No more borrowing!

This type of tax hits the poor and middle class harder, but especially the poor. One dollar out of ten is a lot to take away from them and reduces -even further- their buying power. But one dollar out of ten for a wealthy person would not have much of an impact and I'm sure they would love this kind of tax. And not surprisingly, why you support it.

And if living within our means - means you can't go to war if you don't have the money - I would support that. But of course there is ALWAYS money for wars. Even if it has to be borrowed from China and added to our national debt. Oh, I know, some will say that is the job of our federal government - to protect us. But protection can have different interpretations and I see it differently, as do others.

Long but interesting read.

Some right-wingers ignore facts as they rewrite U.S. history - Yahoo! News

Hard working regular Republicans, like my husband, who are not embroiled in the political debates because they are busy keeping their noses to the grindstone do not take the time to listen to people like Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck or Fox news at all. They are aware that there are crackpots out there who are extremist in their viewpoints but they don't take them seriously and they sure don't spend a lot of time worrying about them.

I will be happy to bring this article to his attention because nothing I have said convinces him that the mainstream conservatives in this country have a big, big problem. Most of them who are aware of the fanaticism and are intelligent, do not even claim to be Republican these days. They tell people they are "Independents" because it is too embarrassing to say they are part of what's going on in the Republican party.

There used to be a fringe element in the Republican party that people ignored. But now it has become very well funded and organized. It has been easy for that fringe element to grow and win believers because they all have a common enemy, the president of the United States.

Once a person has decided that part of what the crazies yell is true, it isn't hard for them to decide that everything the right wingers profess is true. And there is safety in numbers. And the bigger the numbers the stronger it makes all of them feel and the more RIGHT it makes them think they are.

If we don't keep calling them on their lies, the more followers they will recruit. So I thank you Leigha for sharing the link to the article you found. I hope everyone who is reading here will go there and take the time to read it.

Edited April 2, 201016 yr by BJean

I've always believed that you could tell a lot about a person by how they view and treat the least among us - including animals - as this is telling as to what is in their hearts. So I was horrified to hear about this today (even though it happened years ago):

The incident: dog excrement found on the roof and windows of the Romney station wagon. How it got there: Romney strapped a dog carrier — with the family dog Seamus, an Irish Setter, in it — to the roof of the family station wagon for a twelve hour drive from Boston to Ontario, which the family apparently completed, despite Seamus's rather visceral protest.

Read more:

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1638065,00.html#ixzz0jxpZPwJP

And this is the republican front runner for president? Of course this is addition to his hypocrisy to push through a healthcare reform for his state that is like the one just passed by democrats and then turn around and criticize this plan.

Edited April 2, 201016 yr by Cleo's Mom

Well I don't know that this incident with Mitt Romney's dog is necessarily an indication of the man's capacity for cruelty. He sure doesn't seem like the brightest bulb on the porch and he may intellectually be more like the Chevy Chase character in "Vacation" than anyone wants to admit.

But that being said, it certainly doesn't preclude the thought that he is a person who has the capacity to be inhuman to other human beings either.

If we don't keep calling them on their lies, the more followers they will recruit. So I thank you Leigha for sharing the link to the article you found. I hope everyone who is reading here will go there and take the time to read it.

On Wednesday I read Patty's tirade about the Native Americans to my MIL. When I was finished she looked at me and asked if I really thought I could change the mind of someone like that. I told her no, but I since there are obviously people who read these boards (based on the number of views) who don't feel comfortable enough to join the discussion, I thought a lot of them would read both sides of the debate with open minds and I was really presenting my stance for their benefit not hers. I have been reading a lot lately about what the media is calling the "silent majority" even though the tea baggers are the loudest and get the most coverage, the polls are showing that the silent majority is liking where the country is going and the republicans don't have an advantage at all. As a matter of fact, their media campaign is hurting them more and more as time goes along. I can't wait for the shocked look on their faces when the silent majority does the same thing in November that they have done in the past 2 elections.

I have been thinking the same thing. Wouldn't it be interesting if they lost seats and governorships rather than gained.

It won't happen. But I do hope that people who are sick and tired of this will get out and vote and not just stay home because they become apathetic. Or feel overwhelmed by it all.