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Hey there. I am new here and not sure about posting but I feel like I am all alone. I had surgery 10 years ago, I didn’t ever lose that much weight with it and ended up getting sick and not being able to keep up with my running which I miss more than anything. Anyway, I am 20 lbs over the weight I was before my surgery. I am always so tired and I could sleep anywhere at anytime, although the test said I didn’t have sleep apnea. My BMI is a shameful 45. I wasn’t sure who to contact so I contacted my Bariatric Doctor’s office. I am unable to go to the one that originally did my surgery. I’ve been dealing with a NP (which I really adore) that told me no to a revision, but she’s put me on phentramine and they don’t even give me energy and I never had a problem with over eating I have a problem with forgetting to eat 🙄 All of my pills I have to take now makes me sick, I feel nauseous all of the time, zero energy. I have been checked for depression (of course vitamin levels) I take those even though they make me nauseous. This dr is 3 hours a way we’ve only been able to do telemed visits. I would like another opinion but I don’t want to step on anyone’s toes and get in trouble with dr shopping or have anyone mad. I wasn’t sure if people start out with their PCP or surgeon. sorry I rambled I’m nervous and so confused! Idk where in the world to go from here. Lol thanks for listening to me.

My 2 week pre-op diet was 3-4 shakes a day with no more than 200 calories each and minimum 15g of protein, celery and cucumbers, and 1-2 cups of chicken or beef broth a day. Absolutely NO popsicles or sugar free jello. I would constantly be shaving celery with a peeler into “noodles” and then adding it to the broth for a soup of sorts. AND I was super lucky enough to do it twice in an 8 month period. 😂 (needed a hernia repair surgery that was coupled with a VSG to RNY revision to reduce chances of future hernias.)

I 2nd @GreenTealael 's sentiment. It's either really bad scheduling or he's got so many "flukes" there is no way around scheduling them all together. I would definitely consult a 2nd surgeon, maybe even a 3rd. Sorry I can't give you any input on the revision but the bigger concern is this surgeons response to your question about the complainers. Best of luck to you!! Sorry @GreenTealael I wound up getting my curser stuck in the box of your name and can't type anything after it when that happens. So you get 3 shouts.@GreenTealael

Hi, Dr Zapata put my lapband in back in 2007. It now needs to come out due to a slipped band. I am considering going back to Dr Zapata. Can you tell me what the cost was to have the revision? Did he require an endoscopy? Also does the sleeve cause you any heartburn? Thanks

Many band patients later have to revise to sleeve due to complications or ineffective weight loss.

As I'm approaching my revision surgery, I found this page fascinating to read because these are my fears - the future years with the sleeve since I failed with the band. I do have a question though - what is the 5:2 that you all keep talking about? Your stories have been inspiring and I hope I can be as successful as you. Lori

I'm having an open revision on Wed. Mar 18. I am both excited and nervous. I had my stomach stapled way before they were doing Lap bands. My surgeon performed stomach stapling surgeries back then, so he has a good idea of what we are dealing with. I am nervous about having an open surgery again. I have two big , long incisions down my abdomen from the original weight loss surgery, and having my gallbladder and appendix out, so I have an idea of what to expect. If you've had an open revision, did you wear a binder afterward? if so, for how long/ Where did you get it? How long were you in the hospital/ How long was your incision? Do you have any advice for me? Thanks, Kristy

I'm reading these replies and other multiple threads with similar themes and I'm experiencing such mixed emotions. I was banded in Sept of '10. Had back and left shoulder gas pains from day one with them coming & going commonly over the past 3+ years. After my second fill I started having more and more problems. After every attempt of a fill I would swell within couple hours and not be able to get liquids down, and end up right back in the office for a deflate. This repeated for a year. During this time I was never able to eat fruit, fresh or cooked vegetables, chicken breasts, or any healthy lean meat without all of those things instantly getting stuck. The only way I could eat those things is if they were covered in a sauce of some type. And yes, I shared this with my doctor. I was told that “in rare cases….some peoples bodies are just more sensitive to having the band and it can be tricky”. After a year of this, I started randomly swelling which would result in no liquids going down and me vomiting the saliva my body would produce because that couldn't get down either. This was happening for no reason and would end up in Dr's office for deflate for no reason. After two years of that, I asked for a revision. My doctor told me no, I was still a success story with a total loss of 75 lbs post op (still considered severely obese) and told I must not be compliant with the plan. Define being compliant? I couldn't eat most the time...how was that ok? When I was able to eat, I ate what I could without fear of it causing problems and getting stuck. Don’t tell me I’m not compliant when I’ve expressed the challenges I’ve had from day one and constantly being told there was nothing wrong. At this point I was averaging 1200 calories a day and hadn't lost a lb in over 3 months. I was again told “in rare cases we see more challenges than others trying to figure out what causes the swelling or problems, but it’s a process”. After gaining 25 lbs from sustaining on liquids and slider foods, I again asked for a revisions and was told I was still a success story and having the risk of putting me under again was greater than the potential benfit of having the revision. I ended up asking for a complete deflate and let the doctor talk me into leaving 2ccs in the band as "something". Another year later, I go to see a new doctor because I relocated. I find out I still have 4ccs in my band and that the dr had only taken out 2cc. No big surprise to me at this point that the other Dr did what they wanted to do. By the time I saw the doctor I had gained another 40 lbs. My own fault, I am not blaming the band or anyone else. I have had a lot big life changes that had me putting exercise and healthy eating on the back burner...and again, it isn't like I was able to eat fresh vegetables and grilled chicken breasts. And frankly, fattening food could go down with no pain. To this day if I want to eat, its chicken with lots of sauce, or foods that easily slide. With that said, the 3 years leading up that didn’t exactly help me develop healthy eating habits and if I didn’t have disordered eating before, it is 100% present now. So here I am today, the last month having random acid reflux that ends up with my esophagus and band super tight and again unable to get anything down for a day or two. Now the past couple of days I have had the esophagus spasms where I can technically drink liquids and eat soft foods but with extreme pain as it goes down and constant back & left shoulder pain/burning. Just sitting here if I burp the pain instantly hits. I have a very high pain tolerance & pain threshold so it isn't that part that is bothering me. What is bothering me is that if all these people on these boards have similar issues over the course of years, and I have shown increasing symptoms for years of the band being a problem for me, why do the doctors immediately assume I'm non compliant? Why don't they move more aggressively? Why am I treated like an annoyance or problem or immediately assumed that I must have caused the tightening or swelling? Now I will go into the office, feeling like a complete failure because I haven't lost any weight since meeting this new doctor (I haven't gained either). In fact, I don’t even want to call to make the appointment because my emotional state just doesn't know if it can take once more being told some how I must have done something to cause it. I want it out. I have asked two different "highly respected" doctors who have talked me into believing it must be me somehow. Now, almost 4 years later, I am 10 lbs lighter from weight on the day of surgery, in a lot of pain, and even more emotionally beaten down than I was 4 years ago. I don't usually post or vent like this, but I am truly at a loss for what to do next. Society says I'm unacceptable because of my weight. Heck, even some posters here treat those of us with these challenges like we are a problem child. Anyone who knows me knows that I believe in taking accountability for my actions. This is one time in my life where I feel that has been used against me and now has negatively impacted my health more than it ever helped. Family tells me to just make the appointment and ask for it out. I can do that. I know I need to do that. Yet after almost 4 years of being told it’s me, I’m the problem, it isn’t as easy as it seems.

BCBS won't pay for my band removal even though I have a lot of port site pain. Of course the surgeon wants to do a revision, but they've denied it twice. I plan to appeal. Sent from my SM-N920P using the BariatricPal App

i think i found one vlog about a leak! she had to be revised to bypass after 2 or 3 failed attempts with the stent. she looked like she was standing on her last leg before kicking the bucket! she scared the daylights out of me!!! but of course when i told my mom or ppl that know about surgery, they all called me negative & told me it wont happen to me & i need to stop searching! yeah well, so much they knew because look at me now!!! i asked my nurse practioner & her answer was "u dont have to worry about a leak but if there were one, we would place a stent to cover the leak up until it heals & then everything will keep looking up". never ever ever ever ever did they go into detail about how its done, the pain, nothing! matter fact, i thought the stent was a pain free procedure UNTIL waking up in recovery from the procedure! then my gi dr didnt wanna give me pain meds!! he told me to give it a few hrs until i adjust! he didnt give me pain meds until i began crying hysterically!!! mind u, i was throwing up excessively! smh horrible horrible horrible!!!!!!!!!!! horrible!!!! just nightmare! smh! i think they need to go thru all the complications as if they were trying to sway ppl from surgery! in detail. thisway ppl grasp it! they emphasize all the good but no bad.

Well today is exactly 2 weeks post op for me. I vowed to only weigh once a week on Wednesday's and today was my day! I lost 5 lbs this week which thrills me. That is the most I have ever lost in a week. I am 211 now. Yah me! I still have my G drain in. It is a total pain but since I was a revision I understand why they did it. It has to stay in another 2 weeks at a minimum. So much for my recovery on the beach... I need to start walking more it has just been so hot. I might go join a gym next week so I can walk on the treadmill. Onederland here I come!!

Ok, I myself am two weeks from being sleeved, so this is secondhand knowledge. One of the gals in my support group is 4 weeks out and she was just telling us how she drinks 1 beer at bowling and a glass of wine after work on occasion. My first instinct was, is she nuts? However, she is a well educated, successful woman who has had great success with her sleeve, so who am I to judge? My doctor and physiologist said they recommend waiting a year to reintroduce alcohol, simply because they want you to reach goal and too many times, we waste calories on drinks. Also, you metabolize alcohol differently after surgery. I am a revision so I do know this from having the lap band. I would be drinking a glass of wine, it went down fine, so I had another and BAM!!! I was hammered, and throwing up... Not good!! I will probably get backlash, and I am NO expert, but I think if you can handle it, use in moderation, and are getting your water and protein first, then have a drink:) cheers????

I had my consultation with the plastic surgeon today. The first thing Dr. Weiss said after I told him I've lost 130 lbs. is, "Well you look great!" And I laughed and said, "Well yeah, with my clothes on!" He asked what my biggest concerns were and I told him stomach, boobs and side boobs (that bit that spills over the top sides of my bra). After I got undressed he was impressed with the amount of excess skin I had. It was funny sitting there and him gathering and poking to see how much is skin. The good news is he said I can get away with an extended tummy tuck, I won't need a body lift (whew!). He said he should be able to remove nearly all of the loose skin, including my stretch marks on my stomach. He showed me where he would cut and I could not believe how high up he would be able to go. He said I should end up with a nearly flat stomach and he and his assistant said I have a very nice body shape/build because I'm a natural hourglass and under my loose skin is a small waist so I will avoid looking boxy like most tummy tuck patients. ???? He said there is quite a bit of loose skin in the breasts and showed me where the nipple should go. Again, I was surprised. We are talking about six inches or so. He also said I really REALLY need implants because I have zero upper breast. I'm basically pectoral muscles and then breasts below that. He wants to remove all the loose skin, some of my existing breast tissue and then put implants at the top where I'm completely lacking anything. Without them I can get a lift but will end up with the man boob look I'm dreading so much. Right now I'm a 36DDD and I told him I'd like to end up a 34DD. He also said he can easily fix the side boob issue with expanding the lower incision line. I asked him about my back rolls and he said they are all loose skin. He basically said there is nothing to lipo. I'm just skin! Which blows my mind because I still feel so fat when I look in the mirror. But he said that could be fixed later down the road if I decide to do any other surgeries. He said there is an increased bleeding risk when there has been extreme weight loss which is defined as losing more than 60 lbs. However, he has never had to give anyone a transfusion and he is very confident I will have no issues since I've never smoked and my skin is in great condition. He does want me to have a CBC done to make sure I haven't developed anemia from bariatric surgery. He said I could probably return to work after a few weeks if I'm sitting but I still plan on taking at least three, if not four. I can begin light cardio like walking after four weeks but no high impact exercise or lifting for many months. Also, no resistance exercise for many months although I can use my own body weight. It will cost $8,150 for tummy tuck only or $15,310 for tummy tuck and breasts. He offered to repair the side boobs for free. The cost includes all post-op care and if I'm not happy with my results he will do a free revision. He said, "If you're not happy with the results, I'm not going to be happy with the results." Now on to the mental/psychological part of this. I had a bit of a meltdown on the ride home. Part of it was because I made the mistake of listening to "Reflection" on the way home and started bawling. "Who is that girl I see, staring straight back at me? When will my reflection show who I am inside?" ???? So I did a lot of thinking. On one hand, I feel selfish for spending $15,000 on myself. I don't feel like I deserve it. I don't know why I feel that way. I also don't know why I feel so weird about implants. I've always had very large breasts. But I've always kind of thought of women who got implants as phonies trying to be something they aren't. Just accept your natural body! But now I'm trying to replace what I've always had. And now I'm becoming more understanding towards those who want/need plastic surgery. On the other hand, when I see myself in the mirror I can see my potential but I feel like I'll never feel complete until this excess skin is gone. I really want to finish my marathon and get the medal at the end, my new body.

I am going to have my husband take pics tonight to send to Dra. Cardenas and see what my options are for my thigh lift and a possible revision to my breasts. I had planned to wait until the fall, so I could run more races over the summer, but this thread has got me all anxious to do it sooner!

wow can I empathize with you. The only thing I can say is at least you found out BEFORE you had surgery!. I was approved and had surgery (revision from lapband to sleeve) in November 13. I was hospitalized 4 days due to complications. A few weeks later I get a bill for ..... wait for it.... $132,000. So I have a major anxiety attack and call my insurance who tells me they indeed did approve the surgery but my policy only covers up to $25,000 per life time. They never told me that nor did they tell the program coordinator at the hospital I went to. Now, I have to tell you, the hospital did "reduce" my bill to $47,000. That was nice of them. When I called to make payment arrangements, the lowest they would accept per month was $800.00. That just isn't going to happen, I'm a social worker who works for a non profit agency. Scary stuff.

Good afternoon, everyone. I'm new here. I was looking for some kind of forum where I could interact with others like me. I think I may have found it. I live in South Texas, and I had a sleeve gastrectomy in Mexico in 2009 when I was 35. I initially weighed 340 lbs and lost 149 lbs. and went from a size 32 to a size 14. My goal was a 12, but I was really happy. I was exercising 5x a week on the elliptical for a whole hour nonstop! I kept the weight off for approximately 6 years. Unfortunately, all kinds of tragic events started changing my life. In 2014 my father passed away, and I took it really, really hard. I ended up on Xanax and Ambien. In 2015, I got divorced. In 2016, my mother passed away. In 2017, I was transferred from a job I really enjoyed to a brand new location with all different people to work with. Then the COVID Pandemic kept me teaching from home for a year and a half. It was literally one heartbreak after another. Rather than looking for actual help, I helped myself... to pills, alcohol, and crap food. Over the past 9 years, I regained all my weight. Even though I still felt restriction in eating (i.e. only half a burger or 1.5 slices of pizza, with no sides or drinks and I was done). I was 10 lbs away from my original weight before my sleeve. Last year, though, my school district sent out an email stating that WLS was now covered by our insurance. I was so excited! I looked into it, made many calls, and thought coverage was out of the question because I had already had a surgery. Our insurance covers "one surgery per life." However, since my first surgery was private pay, they went ahead and accepted covering my revision to a bypass. Today is my 18th day post op. I've lost 42 lbs altogether since May 11, but only 10 of those lbs since the surgery. I feel a little blue because I was hoping for more than a 10lb loss in 3 weeks. I lost more weight at the beginning when I started a semi-liquid diet to prepare for surgery. I was doing 3 shakes and one solid, no-carb meal. I know that revisions are slower than virgin surgeries. I am doing as much reading and research as I can. I just can't help it, I guess. After my sleeve, the weight loss was phenomenal. Right now I am consuming 450 cals, 60 g protein, and keeping my carbs under 40g. I am walking around my house (not outside because South Texas) 4x a day and was told I could start on the treadmill this coming Monday. Maybe I'm doing something wrong? I'm also trying to find ways to consume fiber without a lot of carbs. I've eaten 1/2 cup of pinto beans twice but, man, that's a lot of carbs. I wanted to try raspberries, but I'm afraid of the little seeds getting stuck in my sutures. Any advice, thoughts, suggestions?

Still in the game! After revision i was counseled that i may lose a little more so im STILL trying to maintain in the 150s. Im 151 lbs currently and about 19 days post op. Not too rapid so I'm satisfied.

Hi, I was just curious how long people have waited before being intimate with their partner after being sleeved? I has a band removal & revision to the gastric sleeve. My left side is definitely still sore & I worry how uncomfortable any movement (you know what I mean) will feel. Appreciate any feedback. Thanks, Fran

Naomi, I know you mean well, but I think you've missed a few important pieces of data here. 1. The chief finding of the study you mentioned was that successful bandsters in Australia do drink (but not guzzle) while eating. Those findings did not explain why that's so. The "why" part is conjecture on the part of the study's authors. Also, I question their claim that "There is no pouch or small stomach above the band. There should never be food sitting there waiting." I agree with the last part of that ("There should never be food sitting there waiting") but I disagree with the first part and have no idea where they came up with the idea that there's no pouch or small stomach above the band. Yes, the band has been used in Australia a lot longer in the USA, but that statement completely contradicts everything I've read in Allergan and J&J literature and surgeon resource sites. And I have watched my own upper GI tract during several upper GI studies, and there was indeed a small stomach pouch above my band every single time, no matter what else was going on in there (or not) at the same time. The radiologist pointed it out to me on every occasion, so I wasn't misreading the images. And by the way, that pouch was a normal finding, not an anomaly. 2. According to American bariatric surgeons I've talked to or whose seminars I've attended or whose articles I've read, NO bariatric surgery patient should drink while eating. In fact, at a bariatric conference 2 years ago, I heard that stated by 3 different surgeons who were giving 3 speeches. All of them stated that failure to separate consumption of solids and liquids is the most common cause of WLS "failure" (that is, no or disappointing weight loss, or weight regain). Since many LBT/Bariatric Pal members live in the USA and have surgeons in the USA, I think it behooves us to follow the instructions of our American doctors. Or, go to Australia for surgery and every fill and unfill and all aftercare. Hey, if I had the money to do that, it might even be fun to travel there, but it would sure disrupt the rest of my life. But hey, a mere $8,000 per trip (not counting hotels, meals, taxis, surgeon's fees, etc.) would be nothing for us rich Americans, right? 3. Every bariatric surgeon I've encountered (in person, on the telephone, online) has stated that the band does not and should not control the movement of food and liquids from the esophagus into the stomach. If the band is far enough up to do that, it has slipped or the surgeon who placed it was incompetent. What controls the movement of food and liquid from the esophagus into the upper stomach (the fundus) is a sphincter at the base of the esophagus where it joins to the stomach. Continually eating in a way that causes food to be stored in the esophagus is asking for trouble. It can cause serious and permanent damage to the esophagus and the esophageal sphincter. 3. No bandster should ever, ever eat in a way, with or without liquids, that allows food to sit in the esophagus for more than maybe 30 seconds. The esophagus is not meant to store food for any period of time. It's designed to move food up or down (preferably down) only. If food is sitting in the esophagus, any liquid consumed after that is probably going to come back up rather than flushing through the stoma, because at that point the upper stomach pouch and the stoma created by the band are probably already jammed up with food. PB's (or regurgitation of food) usually come from the esophagus, not from the upper stomach pouch, for the very reason I mentioned above. The stomach is designed to stretch to accommodate food, while the esophagus will resist stretching until the food has to come back up or (over time) the esophagus becomes dilated - something we all want to avoid, because even if the band is unfilled and the upper GI tract given a good long rest, there's no guarantee that the esophagus will ever go back to its normal state. And no one should have to live the rest of their life with a malfunctioning esophagus or sphincter. Esophageal dysmotility problems caused by careless eating can become a serious health issue, with the patient eventually having to live on liquids, live with a a feeding tube, and/or hope that an attempt at surgical repair will help. Surgery in that part of the upper GI tract is not something to take lightly, because the scar tissue that develops after surgery can also interfere with esophageal function. I speak from personal experience here. I had an esophageal stricture (from reflux damage). I lived on liquids for months, was unable to revise to the sleeve at the first try because my surgeon couldn't get the small (about the size and shape of a Sharpie marker) bougie calibration instrument through the stricture, and eventually had to have the stricture dilated enough to make eating possible, but not enough to make the stricture disappear forever (it was still there when I had an EGD 6 months later). I think esophageal dysmotility has also been a problem for an LBT member known as MsMaui, and last I heard, even an unfill, months of upper GI rest, and band removal have not resolved her problem. 4. So in my opinion, the best way to avoid these unhappy events and their consequences is not to drink while you eat but to avoid keeping too much fill in the band; to practice good band eating skills: take tiny bites, chew very well, eat slowly, don't drink while you eat, avoid problem foods, learn and heed your unique satiety or "stop eating" signals, and give your body the respect it deserves. But what do I know? Jean

I went in thinking I'd be banded for life. That was my plan. However, I have been nauseated and vomiting off and on throughout the year which has made my band slip. Even though I have no saline for the past 8 months, I'm still nauseous. I'm not as big as I was when I was first banded. I don't have acid reflux, my esophagus is fine, however, last year, it was slightly swollen. I am currently prepping my body for this revision surgery I'm having next week. Sent from my SM-G965U using BariatricPal mobile app

Sorrynametaken, I could have written your post. My story is exactly the same. Mine is also 10 years old, and even with no fill in it I'm struggling to get food down. The barium swallow doesn't show any problems with dilation or slippage, but I still slime and vomit every other meal. I thought it was going to last a lifetime but it's so stressful being hungry but dreading that next meal, and my surgeon thinks the stoma will eventually totally close off so even water can't pass, so I'm having it removed with a revision to a RNY. I know I'll never eat an average size meal again but I'm OK with that as long as I can do so without dread!

SW: 243.6 Challenge Starting Weight: 190.4 Last weigh-in: 170 Today: 168.8 Lost this week: 1.2 Labor Day Challenge Goal: 175, revised to 169, revised again to 169.6 So in 8 weeks of this challenge I lost 21.6 lbs (2.8 per week). I'm joining the Halloween challenge, but I am getting closer to goal so I will still be conservative on my goal, like 1.8 per week. Good luck everyone and see you on the Halloween board.

SW: 243.6 Challenge Starting Weight: 190.4 Last weigh-in: 171.6 Today: 170 Lost this week: 1.6 Total lost in challenge: 20.4 Labor Day Challenge Goal: met goal of 175, revised to 169 Pounds to go for challenge: 1 Weeks left in challenge: 1 It took a lot for me to lose the 1.6 lbs this week. I feel like its the start of a stall, but I hope not. I would like to actually hit 168.6 by Labor Day so I can say I've actually lost 75 lbs. So 1.4 lbs to lose this week. Please, please, please I want to make it. Good luck everyone during our last week of this challenge. Let's really push it to finish strong no matter our end results. Fingers, toes, legs, arms and eyes crossed that we all find success on the scale this week.

SW: 243.6 Challenge Starting Weight: 190.4 Last weigh-in: 175 Today: 173.6 Lost this week: 1.4 Total lost in challenge: 16.8 Labor Day Challenge Goal: met goal of 175, revised to 169 Pounds to go for challenge: 4.6 Weeks left in challenge: 3

It's been a bit busy lately with fair season here trying to maintain the goats, get them ready for shows, judging, etc. Add in that a friend had to move so tried to help with that and I'm still struggling with finding a decent mask for the CPAP machine and I just haven't had lots of online time. I got down to 205 but am now holding at 215. First goal was 225 and then revised to 210 but at 210, everyone thought I looked ill and 215 seems to be a bit healthier looking weight for me. I've held there for about 3 weeks with absolutely no fill so that's encouraging. Still have bad food days where things get stuck but, for the most part, I'm able to eat reasonable foods without difficulty. Ice cream is still my downfall so I try not to keep it in the house. If I go running around, I'll sometimes stop and get some. It's far more expensive that way but it keeps me a bit under control. My other stumbling block has been fudge. I've been making goat's milk fudge and have become rather proficient at it and have some interesting flavors. (A couple of friends are encouraging me to explore the options on selling the fudge.) Of course, I have to sample what I make! <G> I've also made some chevre (goat cheese) and some goat's milk ice cream but those products can't be sold in Ohio without getting licensure. Fudge has to be cooked to such a high temperature, there's more flexibility there. And, as if I didn't have enough going on, after wanting a miniature donkey for years, this past week, I now have two, Mary and Feller. A friend has one she's trying to find a home for so I may end up with three but if that happens, will probably find Feller a new home. And I may be getting a fourth dog. Before I got my first Aussie (who is almost 6 now), I really wanted a Cavalier King Charles Spaniel. I came across one that may get to live with me. Don't need it but I've decided that I need to do things for me and I want it. And I'm getting very spoiled. My mother and 86 year old grandmother come out at least weekly, when I'm not going to be home, and clean my house, do my laundry, dishes, etc. It's like having the good parts of a wife but not having to put up with one. <G> (Ducking now!) My mom hasn't been out since the donkeys came, and I didn't tell her so it will be interesting to hear her reaction. She likes animals (has 3 dogs, a rabbit and a couple of birds) but doesn't understand why I want so many. She already complains about how much dog hair my house has so I can just imagine her reaction if I get another dog. (She does know, though, I really want a Cavalier. My brother's fiance got one and I was jealous so she asked them if there were others available.) Off to milk. Hope everyone is having a good summer. I'll check in now and then. Tom