marjon9

Go Nebraska! Just kidding. I'm from D.C.

So if they are automatically guilty of sin upon...conception, let's say (or insert state between conception and sentient life here) what happens to the fetus that dies in utero? Or during birth? Or say for the first few hours of life spent in the NICU, before being allowed visitors, let alone any means of salvation? Are they sent to hell by virtue of physically not being able to seek salvation?

This type of question always brings to mind similar issues, like what about all those people for the last two thousand years that never heard of Christ? Will they burn in hell for eternity? This type of argument in every religious environment is why I rejected organized religion when I was about 12 years old. Every religion says they are the only "right" way and everyone else shall burn. Everyone has their own little man-made document that they claim is the word of God, and of course that document tells them that everyone else is wrong.

When I try to contemplate the Universe I see something that is such a marvel I can't help but imagine that there must be some sort of design or purpose involved. I'm open to the possibility that there is some sort of larger guiding force in the Universe. But it also seems obvious that if such a guiding force does exist, such an entity would exist on a level far beyond anything a mere human could even begin to comprehend.

Here we are, living out our lives on a tiny speck of land, circling a sun that is light years from the closest other sun, in a universe filled with more suns than the human mind can comprehend, where distances between things are also far behond anything that we humans can comprehend. Our minds are incapable of imaninging how it started, we are similarly unable to imagine its boundaries, and we can't imagine when it will end, if it will end, or even what it would mean if it did end.

Yet we are somehow able to convince ourselves that God has singled out a small group of us here on this tiny planet, and offered us a way to go to heaven (whatever that is), but has excluded all the other perfectly good human beings and sentenced them to damnation (even if they are without fault because they never even heard of the one "true" religion). And of course, this is the same thing that is believed by every other group of humans, who also thinks they have been singled out, has the only "right" way, leaving all other groups to damnation.

I just don't get it, folks. In a sense I wish I did because it seems to bring comfort to a lot of people. But I cannot take seriously a planet full of little tribes, each of which is convinced that its religion is the only "right" one, and that everyone else will burn. I understand that most of us were taught to believe this type of thing. But does there ever come a time when we, as thinking entities, just take a step back and think this through for ourselves?

Thanks to everyone who replied. I am very nervous and am finding it hard to decide on a Dr. I really hate that it has to come down to money, but doesnt everything?!

How often and how many times does a person have to get a fill? Is this something that goes on every few months forever?

Other than the cost of the hotel and flight, are there any surgery related expenses that are not included in Dr. K's cost?

Cheryl S.

The thing about Dr. K is that it does not just come down to money. He is an extremely experienced laparoscopic surgeon. He's only done about 75 or 80 bands at this time, but when I was there he described to me some of the other surgeries he does laparoscopically, and they are much more challenging than the lap band. He has pioneered certain types of laparoscopic surgeries and taught his techniques to hundreds of other surgeons. So, you are not sacrificing quality for price in this case, in my opinion.

Other costs include the supplies you will need: Various types of prescription and over-the-counter drugs and pharmacy supplies (find some good lists in the stickies in the pre-op/post-op section), new kinds of food, Protein Shakes and powders, etc.

And another issue that cannot be ignored is, there is a small chance of some significant additional expenses if you have complications. This is always true with a self-payer, and it is true here. The risks are small, but it can happen.

And then after that there are fills. If you go back to Dr. K for fills they are practically free ($15), but if you get fills locally they can be $200 or $300 each, or more. Some people need 6 or 8 or more fills before they feel proper restriction. It is more likely that you will need between 1 and 4, but 6 or 8 is possible.

But on the other hand, you should balance all of this with the other side. You may save a lot of money on groceries after a while because you will eat a lot less. I know that I am saving quite a bit on that. And you will almost certainly save many thousands of dollars over the next 5 or 10 years on medical costs for things you won't have to do: hip and knee replacements, diabetes care, high blood pressure, depression from being obese, etc., etc.

It might be if you take it out of the shell. Hardy har har.

I think it can be if you put it in a blender and add sauce like mayo, cocktail sauce, cream Soup, etc. A lot of crab seems to be a bit sinewy sometimes. That seems more like it would be a hard Protein if you don't blend it.

His office is actually in Aurora, Colorado. The surgical center is about 20 minutes away in Parker, Colorado. The surgical center doesn't have a website but it seems like what it is...a surgical center. I found it referenced when I Googled it.

Dr. K may have made some changes since I was there but I just want to mention that on 1/17/07, when I was banded by Dr. K, the surgical center was just across the street from his Aurora offices. So, like I say, he may have made some changes, but that was my experience.

Thanks, girls!

Then how the heck to you get in the fiber that you need if you can't eat anything with fiber???

It is still possible to eat fiber, and since you are eating less volume in general you need less fiber too. You no longer need to eat a bulldozer full of corn husks to move along the huge piles of beef and carbs you were eating before. Also, as you are able to move more freely and become more active as the weight goes, you need less fiber for that reason as well.

And, if all else fails, there is always milk of magnesia or something like that.

Some people do get constipated on the band, but you can deal with that in the usual ways, and it seems that most feel that the benefits of weight loss are worth the trade off.

There is one other thing that is significant in this discussion. That is, after you are banded your food preferences will gradually, naturally change, and thus your list of "favorites" will change. And it is important to remember that this is not a matter of deprivation, it's a matter of true preferences gradually changing.

Some people find that they really miss pizza, or some other specific thing. But for the most part people with the band find that they are not deprived and can enjoy a wide variety of foods. And, as Julie mentioned, you can control a lot of it yourself by controlling your restriction.

The main point to remember, though, is that a banded person does not spend life suffering from endless unfulfilled food cravings.

Hey thanks for the info.

Me and my sister booked our fights and hotel on friday and she was like you can't change your mind now. is there any thing close around that maybe we can do the night before the surgery

I don't know how close you are talking about. Walking distance probably the best thing is shopping. But if you can drive for about 20 minutes the Denver Art Museum is really great. That's what we did the day before.

I just found out on Friday that my insurance was approved and I am scheduled for surgery on March 20th. That seems so fast to me. Shouldn't I feel excited instead of terrified?! Does that mean I am not really as serious about this as I should be...?

I think that almost everyone has "second thoughts" and "doubts" etc. once they closer to being banded. It's completely normal. If you feel serious doubts you can always postpone things. But just keep in mind that you will always feel this way just before surgery, no matter how many times you postpone it. It just comes with the territory. And as for feeling excited, you'll probably have those feelings too.

here's another question in regard to meals. My surgeon says to eat 30 minutes after i drink and then wait to drink again 30 minutes after i eat. Is this the way it is for everyone or is that this surgeons advice?

This seems to be a general rule for lap banders. The idea behind it is that Water makes the food go through your stomach more quickly, which sort of defeats the purpose of the lap band. With the band, you feel full for quite a while on a very small amount of food. That's the whole point of the band, so that you can eat just a little bit but still feel full and not suffer. But if you drink water with your meals, the food goes through much more quickly, so you get hungry again much sooner.

There's a bit of a difference of opinion on the forum concerning the definition of PB. Quite a few people agree with bitteroldhag that it is pretty much like throwing up. Then there is another faction, that I am part of, that does not have that same experience. To me, when I PB (which I call a "productive burp"), it is not like throwing up because the food comes right back up in the same condition as when it went down. It is not mixed with stomach digestive juices, so it does not taste bad. And when I PB I don't have the same sort of stomach convulsions as when I vomit. So to me it is completely different.

In any event, when you eat too fast, or don't chew enough, or eat too much for your new little stomach pouch, or eat the wrong food, sometimes it won't go through the narrow part of the hourglass that your stomach has become with the lapband. So, the food has to come back up. In general, I don't find it particularly unpleasant, but people say if you do it too much it can cause the band to slip.

As a final point, I would say that a PB almost never happens in a way that you can't control. You start by feeling a sort of a golf ball in your chest, and then you go to the rest room when you feel like it and let the food come back up. It is not something that is likely to embarrass you in a public situation.

It seems that all questions about what you can and cannot eat or drink must be answered individually. In general, you can eat or drink anything you want with the band IF you can do so without problems. People say they can't eat bread because it is a Gummy thing that tends to get stuck in the little hour glass opening we have after the band is in place. Same with rice and Pasta. But some people can eat these things even with the band, and there is no reason not to eat them if you can do so and still lose weight.

As for types of bread, yes, whole grains are less gummy so they tend to go down more easily. Toast is also less gummy and people find that they can tolerate it a little better.

But remember, even if you "can" eat bread or Pasta, it's probably not something to eat a lot of if you want to do well with the band. Our stomachs are much smaller after the band is in place. In order to get proper nutrition to stay strong and healthy you need to us that small space wisely. If you fill it up with Wonder Bread you are going to have a hard time getting in the nutrients you need.

And, as a back drop to this whole discussion, in general you need to do what your doctor says. If the doctor says "no bread," then you should avoid it for that reason.

I think the fish theory has to be taken in context of how the fish is cooked. If you bread the fish in beer batter, deep fry it, and pile on the tartar sauce then it is probably not going to make it onto the bandster's Greatest Diet Hits. In general, eating broiled fish with no butter is probably a lower calorie Protein compared to fatty meats.

For me, though, the band is not about dieting. The band is about NOT dieting. I intend to eat more or less what I want, just a lot less of it. Fortunately, what I "want" to eat is usually real food, not ice cream and Doritos.

I went through with the surgery and I feel really good. I am almost a week out and only have a little burning in the port area. My surgery went very well and so far I do not regret it one bit. Thank you all for your support.

Congratulations!! :clap2: :clap2: :clap2:

I really think you did the right thing. For the next month or so you still need to focus on healing so take it easy on yourself and don't expect huge weight loss right now. Soon enough you'll be healed up and on with your bandster journey.

Good job!

I know it feels like an inconvenience to deal with this, but it really is for the best. sleep apnea is serious. Your air passages close up and you stop breathing. After a period of time you wake up gasping. This not only ruins the quality of your sleep, but it puts a terrible burden on your heart.

In the past I was tired a lot and I knew I did not sleep well, but I did not think that much about it. I snored really bad also so my wife would go sleep in another room quite often. One day she said to me "you know, you stop breathing at night sometimes for, like, 30 seconds, and then wake up gasping. I think you ought to go see a doctor." I resisted for a while and then I went, had a couple sleep studies, got diagnosed, and now use a CPAP (Continuous Positive Air Pressure) machine. I feel much better now and no longer feel like I'm going to pass out in the afternoons from exhaustion.

As another poster said, once we lose weight we may no longer need the CPAP. This is a good thing, and it will evidence that health is improving even more.

But for now, if you have apnea, you really do want to know. It is truly a very serious health problem.

I had a couple dried apricots a week ago, chewed them really well, and they got stuck anyway. For me the solution on this type of problem is just to bring the offending item back up via the old "PB" routine. I know this seems like throwing up to a lot of people but to me it is quite different and not that unpleasant. So I just drink a little Water and bring it back up. So far I have not had anything get stuck that I could not remove by bringing it back up.

To dissolve the food inside you you might try Papaya Enzyme from the health food store or dissolved meat Tenderizer. These things work for some people.

Good luck working it out.

Eric, I'm no doc but I'd be very suspicious about this diagnosis from Dr. Joya. If Dr. Joya himself performs these alternative surgeries, I'd be doubly suspicious. It may be that some people's bodies literally do not "take to" the lap band, but I don't remember seeing that particular "complication" discussed on this forum before. It may have been, but I have not seen it and I've read quite a bit on this forum. In any case, it seems to be a very rare complication if it does happen.

But either way, it seems to me that there are other options that should be considered before you reach that conclusion that your body is rejecting the band and you need to have your internal body parts removed and rearranged.

One place I would consider starting is to get another doctor, if at all possible for you. There is a limit to what Dr. C can do by responding to posts on this forum. I believe you could use a second (and perhaps third) opinion here. I would do that asap if at all possible. Stay hydrated in the meantime (as you are already doing). Good luck to you. I know this has got to be pretty distressing.

Man, I just can't find a brotha who either has been able to enjoy one, or will admit to it..

Oh well, in a couple of weeks I'll find out myself.. Who knows, maybe I can't..

Many times people post on this forum asking if they can have one thing or another: popcorn, wine, bread, gum, coffee, Rocky Mountain Oysters, or whatever. I think that the general answer to lap band questions of this type is, you can eat it or drink it if you can eat it or drink it. In other words, each person is different. If a beer goes down OK for you and you are still losing weight, then you can have a beer.

People generally say that anything with carbonation is not a good idea, because it can stretch your pouch, or it can cause things to get stuck, or whatever. But yet there are still plenty of people who drink the occassional diet coke and don't seem to have any problems. And plenty of people on this site acknowledge that they drink wine sometimes. In fact, many people say it helps loosen up their restriction so they can eat solid food without getting stuck. For some people this is a big benefit. So I don't think the alcohol itself is necessarily a problem per se. It's the carbonation and calories/carbs in beer that would be the problem (if any).

But again, there is no general answer here that is going to solve the problem. The bottom line is, if you find that you personally can drink beer, then you can drink beer.

This may not be much comfort to you now, but the fact is our tastes change after banding. We tend to stop wanting things that don't go down well. We are sort of like worms in the T-maze. Once we get shocked a few times when we "turn left" toward bread and rice, pretty soon we just prefer turning right, if you see what I mean. This may seem depressing right now if you are craving bread, but in the long run it's probably a good thing.

Some people take longer to heal than others. I was also a slow healer. Try to do some walking, that helps speed the recovery, and do your best to drink Water and get in some Protein. These things really will speed the recovery. Try hard especially not to let yourself get dehydrated.

There is nothing else that can really be said except that this rough part will be over soon. It's hard to believe, but it's true. You'll turn the corner soon and then you'll just be living the bandster life without all this difficulty. Hang in there!

Many people have found that they can return to work that quickly. I might have been able to do it but I would have been uncomfortable and unhappy about it, not because of pain, but because I felt like crap for at least 10 days after surgery. If you can arrange to have options, that would be best. If you can avoid committing 100% you might be glad later. If you are able to go back to work, great. But if not, you'd have a little flexibility.

Having said that I can also say that the odds are you would be OK on that Monday.

Can we get Robert Redford to do the movie?

Folks, I'm starting to get a little worried about Jack. I ran into him the other day and he was buying a Superman outfit. On the back was embroidered the phrase: "Lap Band God."

If we are not careful here Jack's head will gain back what he lost from his belly. :heh:

I completely agree that logically the lap band would be far less risky due the procedure being dramatically less invasive. I would still like to hear more about long term weight loss and possible side effects/complications from the band.

I agree completely that this information would be useful. The problem is, the band has not been around long enough to get that information, especially in the U.S. The Aussie's have been doing the lap band for about 10 years now, as I understand it. Some of the Aussies on this forum have had the band over five years. That may be the most long term information that is out there.

I finally heard from the hospital and surgeon's office as to what this is going to cost me since I am self pay. $15,000 for the hospital and $13,000 for the surgeon. And I won't even be spending the night in the hospital. That sounds completely outrageous to me since I've heard a lot of you saying it was around $15,000 total. So my question is this...are there any good surgeons in the DFW area that will only cost me around $15.000 total? I really appreciate your help!

Kendra in Dallas

My surgeon is Dr. Kirshenbaum in Denver. He's a very experienced laparoscopic surgeon in general, with about 75 or 80 lap bands done by now. He charges $9950 total for everything. If you want some information on him do a search for Kirshenbaum and you'll hear a lot of positive reports. The link to his web site is at the bottom of my post.

The surgery is also about $25,000 plus in my area (Washington D.C.). I agree that is completely outrageous. But you don't need to pay it. Things worked out really well for me going to Denver.