Leecelove70

:think Hi ladies! Iam on my second day of liquids since my first fill on Wednesday (after 4.5 months post-op) and its has not been all that good. I now have a terrible sinus infection :sick. Iam now on Zithramax which when I had a sinus infection 2 months a go( I have sinutitis), made my stomach so upset. It also helped my weight loss since I had the runs most of the time :tired. Tomorrow I start on two days of purees which is not to bad since at least its FOOD! I just wish I did not have a sinus infection since I think it would make this whole "cleanse " much better. Iam so happy to see that the group did so well this month on your weight loss journey's. I also had a great moment when I tried on a old winter jacket my hubby bought me two years ago that never fit and now it fits but is a little snug. At least I can zip it which I was unable to do before. I bet by the end of November I can no only zip it but wear it with comfort. Thats my mini goal right now, I love it, its lavendar and has nice warm fleece in it! I hope you all have a nice weekend! Here in NY we expect a Noreaster with lost of rain -YUCK! Love,and hugs, Lisa

Barbara: Thanks so much for the vote of encouragement. I also have Dr. Phil's book among other's. I seem to beat myself up all the time for every little thing. I need to realize the life does not always goes as planned and as my mom always say's "Do not sweat the small stuff"! Being an emotional eater is hard, its took me 36 years to get this fat and its not going to come off overnight ( If I had that solution figured out I would be rich!) The one thing I have loved to do since I was a child is read! Iam what I call myself a a book addict!( Iam also a food addict but this one is better!-lol). I love to read and I read at least 3 books a month and to me its a great joy! ( Barnes and Nobles and Amazon.com are getting rich by me). Thats why Iam looking into books to try to do some research on finding ways to heal my emotional eating . Thanks for the Dr.Phil suggestion, I forgot about his book. Love and Hugs, Lisa

:clap2: :welcome: Congratulations on taking the next step to better health and a new life. I was banded on June 13 and have lost 45 pounds so far. You sound like your doing great . Its not easy the first month but hang in there . You have come to a great site with lots of support! Love, Hugs and friendship,:cool: :kiss2: Lisa

:cool: Hi all! Boy did I have a bad month and its time to make my confession. Iam happy to have had a total loss as of last month of 40 pounds with out a fill, then why did I blow it all this month with stress eating! I had a very stressful month maritial wise ( money problems and arguments,you name it it happened!). Without the restriction of having my band filled I went back to my comfort of FOOD! I ate everything and anything especially my enemy MR. SUGAR! So when I went yesterday for my 4 month follow up I was totally depressed and not expecting to have lost anything even though I was lying to myself and everyone else that I finally made the 50 pound mark. I weighted in at 249 which means that I lost 1 pound even though I totally cheated the whole month due to stress eating. Lets face it when I am stress and emotional I eat, that is on of the reasons I got my band to help control my Complusive Overeating and Emotional eating ( My Eating Disorder ). So my Nurse Practitioner gave me my very first fill of 1cc. I am now on my first 48 hours of liquids and then 48 hours of purees. I have been peeing and pooping ever since my appointment of 4p.m. yesterday. I actually weighted myself this morning and my digital scale says 245 its that at all possible! My scale is accurate since it says the same weight as the doctors scale( It said 249 yesterday morning and I weighted as 249 at my follow up). I take this fill as my opportunity to start over and really evaluate what Iam eating and what Iam feeling. I bought the book "Overcomming Overeating " that someone on this site recommended and Iam looking foward to reading it. I also found some other books that I had purchased on recommendations from my therapist and that have been helpful. You know that old phrase "Its not what your eating , Its what's eating you"-- That is what I have to work on for this month ! So if you want to add me to Octobers tally of weight loss Iam down 45 pounds now ! Thanks for letting me finally confess my flaw to you all. You all are a great bunch of ladies! Love and hugs, Lisa

I have my four month follow up tomorrow and Iam getting filled so I wanted to know more information and I found this link on the fill question and answer forum. Here's is the rest of my post: http://lapbandtransformation.com/Adjustments.htm Thanks so much for the site information , it was helpful. I also read my booklet that the Nurse Practitioner gave me from the LapBand manufacturer that tells you what to expect when getting a fill. I was banded on June 13, 2006 and I have lost 50 pounds on my own with no fill, since I called my Nurse Practitioner and told her that I have been at a stand still all month, she is going to finally fill me tomorrow. She told me that I could have a protein shake for breakfast and then to only have soup for lunch as to prepare for the fill. My first fill is part of my after surgery follow up and free even though I am just getting it filled now. The Nurse told me the the first fill is always free no matter when it is done. Any other fills will cost me $80.00 dollars plus her regular fee which monthly is $80.00 same as the dietican I see monthly. The first fill is covered by my insurance of Bc/Bs PPO, but every time I see the Nurse Practitioner and Dietician its cost me out of pocekt.:phanvan I will post of the outcome soon. Lisa:kiss2: :cry

Thanks for the information, I emailed asking for a bracelet and I hope to get a response back. Lisa:) :kiss2:

Hi there! My name is Lisa and I also live in New York ( North East Bronx). I just want to send you my prayers and well wishes on your surgery. There is a New York forum and message board that I found. I had my surgery on June 13th and I have lost 50 pounds so far. I had it at Lawrence Hopsital in Bronxville,NY ( Westchester County) Love and Hugs and friendship, Lisa:kiss2:

You are so very welcome! Iam so happy to have inspired you and others with my story. I posted it because when I was looking into having my surgery, it was very helpful to read other people's stories. Even though I had my surgery in June, I just joined this site and I have to say I love it here. Unlike, Obesity Help, I love that its all about LapBand. I have already told a few of my friends who have had LapBand surgery about his site and they love it also. Leecelove70

Hi there and I want to say your doing great so far on your journey. :hungry: I tried a few protein powders but I love Designer whey in chocolate and I add a scoop of Smart Balance Peanut Butter( my dietican said its okay since Iam 4+ months out now!) it takes like a Reeces Peanut Butter Cup-Yum! The vanilla tates good with a cup of frozen strawberries added. I buy the small can at Eckerd for $10.00 but I can get the big one at The Health Nuts for $20.00 in Queens, NY. Good Luck! Love and Hugs and friendship, LeeceLove70

Thanks so much for the book suggestion I placed my order on Barnes and Nobles since Iam a member. I also found some a books that an old OA sponsor had told me to buy here are the titles "Why Can't I Stop Eating" by Debbie Danowski. She also has another book titled"Locked Up for Eating to Much- Dairy of a Food Addict in Rehab"( It was about here going to rehab to over come her overeating and it was very powerful reading!) I also read and this was after much therapy for my compulsive overeating and food addiction this book "Food Addiction -What the Body Knows" by Kay Sheppard (This books has been around for many years and had a great food plan that is great for banders and Kay Sheppard has a website that you can check out for the food plan.) Thanks again for the book suggestion. Love and Hugs and friendship, Lisa:kiss2:

Kiera: I loved your suggestions! Iam such a funk lately, I have lost close to 50 pounds with out a fill and Iam a complusive overeater and emotional eater also. Lately I crave Sugar and I have resorted to my old behaviors whenever Iam stressed. I have tired the Detour bars as you mentioned and they are great as a "chocolate fix". I also use the Designer whey Protein powder in Chocolate and add skim plus milk and a scoop of Smart Balance Peanut Butter and 4 ice cubes to make a great smoothie.( Iam in heaven !) Your suggestions were great and I will use them to help me get out of this funk Iam in. I also like the planned once a week menu and the once a week 'Cheat" idea. Thank for a great post!:clap2: Love and Hugs and friendship, Lisa

I found this post and it brought me to tears since I felt this way a year before I had my surgery. I cried my eyes out as I read this post. I sent her a very long reply with words of encouragement and my story so far. I was thinking as a group maybe we can give her some support and love even though she is in Australia! I think pretty much all of us felt this way before we had our surgery. Love and hugs, Lisa The world hates fat people..... <HR style="COLOR: #d1d1e1" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->Hi everyone. I guess you could say that I am feeling very low at the moment. I just feel so isolated due to my weight. It seems like people absolutely hate you if you have a weight problem, and they just want you to disappear. It is like I hve committed the worst possible sin. It doesn't matter that I am a good, kindhearted person who does a lot to help others, I should be hated because of my weight. I feel this more acutely being a female. That is like a double sin. I feel very discrimated against by some of my co-workers who I have heard making comments about my weight when they thought I wasn't there. I don't feel like leaving my home and it is causing me a lot of mental anguish. I guess if I lose the weight with the banding I will be a worthwhile person to society. Sorry to put a downer on things. Just going through a low ebb at the moment. Susannah:confused: <!-- / message --><!-- sig -->__________________ 8/8/03 Diagnosed Multiple Sclerosis Surgery Jan/Feb 2007 Mr Gary Crosthwaite Reside in Melbourne Australia

Susannah wrote: I guess you could say that I am feeling very low at the moment. I just feel so isolated due to my weight. It seems like people absolutely hate you if you have a weight problem, and they just want you to disappear. It is like I hve committed the worst possible sin. It doesn't matter that I am a good, kindhearted person who does a lot to help others, I should be hated because of my weight. I feel this more acutely being a female. That is like a double sin. I feel very discrimated against by some of my co-workers who I have heard making comments about my weight when they thought I wasn't there. I don't feel like leaving my home and it is causing me a lot of mental anguish. I guess if I lose the weight with the banding I will be a worthwhile person to society. Sorry to put a downer on things. Just going through a low ebb at the moment. Susannah:confused: __________________ Susannah: I read your post with tears in my eyes since in June of 2005, I was you! I felt your pain and I almost ended my life because of it, but I knew enough that I did not want to leave me son with out his mother and my husband with out his wife. I admitted myself to a hospital and got help for my depression . I was there for week and was put on medication. It has not been an easy path since I have an eating disorder of Complusive Oveating to add to my depression. With both my therapist and mental doctor's help along with my primary doctor I decided to have the LapBand surgery. I had my surgery on June 13, 2006 here in the USA which was a year to the date I admitted myself to the hospital and it was the best thing I did for myself! I have regained my self-esteem, self-respect, annd above all my life! I know how you are feeling now I was 290 pounds and was not comfortable in my own skin. I never wanted to go out because that meant I had to have people see how big I had become. I was keeping my very active 3 years old inside with me while I stayed on the couch and watched TV all day and ate-- what kind of example was I showing him? I also did not go to my youngest cousins wedding because I did not want to have to be squeezed into a uncomforatble corset to wear under my dress for his wedding-- how crazy was that? I realized that I was missing life because of my weight, I was letting this weight take over my life --I FINALLY SAID NO MORE! YOU CAN DO THIS! 1. I suggest you go and see a mental health person for your depression. 2. Talk to your primary doctor and start on a special food plan . 3. Look into WLS doctors in your area of Australia. 4. Talk to others on the local Australia LapBand talk. I wish you all the best and you have all my love and prayers in your journey. Lisa from the USA:kiss2:

Thanks PinkyLee, This Depression thing is a B***h! I had a good night last night with my hubby and son we watched "The Little Mermaid " for the 100th time. It was okay since it is my favorite Disney movie! When I am feeling blue its great to have my 4 years old to cheer me up! He loves to sing and dance and he always puts a smile on my face. Lately my challenge is to not give in to my old cravings ( SUGAR!) and it has been so hard since my band is not yet filled, Iam still doing this on my own and its scares me! I know I have accomplished so much in 4 months with 50 pounds down so far but, I thinks it might be time for the fill and major restriction! I have bought so many books about WLS surgery and most recently "Laproscopic Gastric Banding " a whole book about banding ! I wish there was a book that had food plan ideas for people from weeks 1 and beyond. I mean like week per week food plan ideas up to a year after surgery, I feel it would be extremely helpful to all LapBand patients! Those are my thoughts for today . Love, Hugs and Friendship, Lisa

Hi ! My name is Lisa and I had my surgery on June 13, 2006 at Lawrence Hospital in Bronxville ,NY (Westchester,NY). They have their support meeting the first Wednesday of every month at 7 pm in the Conference room on the 5th floor. I have not been able to go since my husband does not get out of work until 7pm and I do not drive and have no one available to watch my son . I do alot of online support such as this site and ObesityHelp. What Iam looking for is a support group that has a better scheduled time and maybe even weekends so that I can go in person. Does anyonw know of any in the Bronx or lower Westchester Region ( New Rochelle or White Plains)? I have lost 50 pounds without any fill since my surgery on June 13,2006. I would love to keep in touch with some New York bandsters. Please leave me a message on this site and lets keep in touch . Lisa aka LeeceLove70:)

Hi there! Iam Lisa aka LeeceLove 70. I was banded on June 13,2006 Let me tell youe about me: My birthday is Jan 6, 1970 (hence the 70 in the username). I have been married to my hubby for 4 1/2 years and have an adorable 4 yeard old son Andrew. I was born and raised in New York. My hobbies are reading books -- Barnes and Nobles is getting rich with me -lol I love going to concerts - The best I saw recently was Billy Joel at Madison Square Garden in February- he did 3 hours non stop ! I have been fat since I was 5 years old and growing up I was on every diet there was. I never made lifetime on Weigth Watchers but I sure did spend enough over the years to get lifetime membership! I even tried Overeaters Annoymous a few times for my eating disorder of Complusive Overeating. The most I lost was 35 pounds on OA's HOW program . I also suffer from depression and I went through a breakdown in June of 2005 after my best-friend of over 10 years decided to end our friendship from pressure and abuse she was suffering from her husband. I admitted myself to a hospital for a week and got put on medication and recieved help for my depression. A year to the date I had my LapBand surgery and it was the best thing I ever did for myself! I have regained my life, my self-esteem and self-respect! My depression is under control and I see my therapist every other week and doctor once a month. Iam not perfect, but Iam progressing! I have lost 50 pounds with my LapBand with still no fill and it has not been easy , since I have been pretty much doing it on my own. The past two months have not been easy and the old craving have been there , but I keep watching what I eat and only drink water and Crystal Lite. I have not been exercising as much as I used to but , I have been outside more with my son trying to be more active. I love this June Banders Crew since we all can support each other and be open and honest and help each other out. I look foward to making new friendships with each and every one of you. Thank you so much for the wonderful invites you all sent me. Love and hugs, Lisa aka Leecelove70:kiss2:

Hi there, My name is Lisa and I just joined this site. I was banded on June 13, 2006 and I would love to be part of the June 2006 Banded Crew! How do I join? Also how do I add that ticker that everyone has in there post? ttp://tickers.TickerFactory.com/ezt/d/3;0;96;0;0/c/-50/t/-150/k/9055/weight.png

Michelle: I know where your comming from with the medication for depression. Before I switched to the great psychothreapist and Doctor that I have now, I was wrongly diagnosed with Bipolar. I was on so much medication and to top it all off I have an eating disorder, it made me gain so much weight . After I had my LapBand surgery I left my old therapist and doctor and got a new one. I am now on less medication was diagnosed as only having slight depression brought on by my eating disorder( complusive overeating)my therapist and doctor specialize in patients who have had weight loss surgery. Having my LapBand surgery has changed my life and given me back my self-esteem and that is what most of us lose when we are in our depression. Iam doing so much better with my mecication and see my therapist every two weeks and doctor every two months for medication adjustments. I hope that you will find that your depression will be less once you have your surgery. I wish you the very best of luck and please stay in touch with me . Love, Hugs and friendship, Lisa( aka-LeeceLove70)

Iam so glad to inspire you and your daughter. I have Blue Cross/Blue Shield PPO since my husband works in a hospital. My seminar was on March 23rd, first appoinment was with the Nurse Practioner on April 4th and then the whole month of May was filled with all the required appointments. I was approved with my first letter on June 1st and given the June 13th as the surgery date. I was then put on Optifast( liquid drinks that come in chocolate and vanilla) where I lost 7 pounds down from 290 to 283 on the day of surgery . Its now 4 months plus and on my home scale its says I have lost 50 pounds( 240). I go on October 25th for my 4 months check up( for the first year you have to go every month to see the dietician and the Nurse Practioner to get weighted and to check if you need a fill/adjustment). I still have not gotten my band filled yet. I wish you both well . Love, Hugs and friendship, Lisa ( aka-Leecelove70)

Hi there , this is Lisa and Iam so glad that I inspired you. I was in your shoes last year and did not know of this site. All that I was able to find was Obesity Help which was helpful, but not totally geared to LapBand as a whole. My seminar was on March 23rd, I had my first appointment on April 4th and then in May were all my appointments. On June 1st, I was approved and June 13th was my surgery date. I have Empire Blue Cross/Blue Shield PPO and they were great. I wish you the very best of luck and well wishes on your journey. Please also read my words of advice on the insurance process since its gets very stressful if you do not have the right information in your medical file! Love,Hugs and friendship, Lisa( aka -LeeceLove70):faint:

:help: Hi there all, Iam Lisa and I am 4 months+ post op. I had my surgery at Lawrence Hospital in Bronxville, Westchester County,New York. They have a support group that only meets on the first Wednesday of the month. I have not been able to attend yet since I live in the Bronx and I do not drive. The meeting is at 7pm and my husband does not get home from work until 7 and I have no one to watch my 4 years old son. I wondering if anyone who lives in New York in the Bronx or lower Westchester Region ( New Rochelle,White Plains, etc.) know of any support group meetings that I might be able to go to that have a better scheduled time.( Nights ore weekends) For my meetings I have used Obesity Help, but Iam not finding what I really need there. Iam so glad that today I found this site that is all about Lapband , Iam looking foward to making may alot of a new banded friends. Thanks for everyone's love and support, Lisa

My name is Lisa and I am new to this site but I am 4 months post op. I has my LapBand surgery on June 13, 2006. I have since lost 50 pounds. I would like to share my story so far. I feel I could help out others and maybe even get some help on this site for others who are further in their journey than Iam. To all who are getting ready to begin your journey, I give you all my prayers and best wishes. Love and friendship, Lisa P.S. I hope that someone finds useful information in my post. Here is my story so far: JUNE 1 2006:RECIEVED MY APPROVAL FOR SURGERY TODAY. I WAS GIVEN JUNE 13,2006 AS MY SURGERY DATE. MY SURGERY WILL BE DONE AT NOON BY DR. DANIEL DAVIS AT lLAWRENCE HOSPITAL. JUNE 16TH: Iam doing really well and up and round well. I started on pureed food yesterday and had my one ounce of chicken and rice Gerber Stage 2 baby food. It was not that bad. Right now I enjoy sugar-free cherry Jello and sugar-free ice pops the most! I had lost 7 pounds with the Optifast before my surgery on 6/13/06 so that brought me down to 283 from my 290. Well today I went on the scale since my shorts felt really loose on me and I weighted in at 278! Thats a whole 12 pounds!! I was so shocked ! Iam getting all my Water in but otherwise Iam not that hungry at all. Iam still taking Optifast shakes of french vanilla and chocolate since I have alot left over and I really like them. I bought mostly chicken and rice or turkey rice of the Gerber Stage 2 baby food. I also bought plain yogurt and some strawberries and bananas to puree and mix into the yogurt. June 24 : Well Iam a week out and I feel great, Iam out and about and having fun outside with my son. I know that the band is working because I not hungry all the time. I eat my three meals a day and only have one or two sugar-free icepops in between . I am getting used to pureeing my food. Breakfast is either eggbeaters scrabbbled with a little SkimPlus in a nonstick pan with PAM spray. lunch is either pureed chicken in chicken broth or chopped hamburger pureed in my MAGIC BULLET, I used Mrs. Dash for taste and I have gotten very creative. I still use Baby food on occasion or Optifast Shakes. June 29,2006: Today I had my two week check up and weigh in with Dr.Davis and my grand total is 18 pounds! I cried and screamed! The Nurse told me that it means that the band is working and to keep up the great work. I then told me husband I need to go shopping. Its such a great feeling ! -****JUNE13,2006- ONE MONTH POST-OP******: Today is my one month post -op and my total weight lose as of this morning on my home scale is 24 pounds ( 266 from 290)! Iam in tears as I write this! A month ago today I fufilled a dream of mine, that dream was to take charge of my obesity and take charge of my life. I was a 290 pound woman who at 36 was on the road to death's door. Now I am gettin my energy back , my self-esteem and self-confidence back, and most important my healthy back. All the chemical and sugar are out of my body and I found out were never my friend, my skin has never been clear! This month has not been easy , the optifast shakes are not bad in taste but gave me the runs,in the berginning baby food is okay but after three days I hated it! I have learned to get very creative with pureeing food and trying different flavors( Mrs. Dash is a God sent!) Aside from walking outdoors( Its been so hot here in NY lately!) that I added exercise tapes and DVD"S to my workouts: "Walk Away the Pounds" and "Dance Away the Inches"--- Iam having fun and my 3 1/2 year old son does them with me! ***July 21st: WAS ABLE TO DANCE AGAIN!: I actually posted this on the main message board but here is a shorter version : I went with my husband to see KC and the Sunshine Band at Jones Beach Theater in Long Island , NY , last night . It was a gift for my one months post-op anniversary( Iam almost at 30 pounds lost!) I felt such freedon as I danced my ass off to each and every song ! I even recieved comments form the people in front and in back of me on my dancing. They were like " You go girl"! In the ladies room I told a few of the ladies that I had weight loss surgery last month and that before that I could no longer dance which I love so much. The ladies were in tears and huggied me and said ," Then you keep on shaking it girl"! Thats what I did all night long! July 26: I had my 6 week checkup today and had my swallow test to determine if I needed my first adjustment /fill of my band. I met with Dory my nurse practioner and she weighted me and Iam now down 29 pounds ( 261 from my heighest of 290)! She was so impressed since this was all done with out my band being inflated! She told me that I do not need a fill yet and to keep up the good work. I then met with Stacy the dietican and she told me I can now do more solids and add more fruit and vegetables and carbs to my diet. Iam a little nervous able this but she feels its now time. I feel so healthy and good about myself right now, my attitude is so much better. Iam always so high on life now and my husband said he likes that Iam back to the woman he married ( I suffered such a bad depression for so long), our marriage is so much better now and life as a whole is better now! *****AUGUST 13TH TWO MONTH ANNIVERSARY**** Today is two months and Iam now down 35 pounds and still have not gotten my band filled yet! My life has changed so much in two months and I love the new person Iam becomming! For starters I got a new therapist who I like and who wants to help me set new goals for myself and to help find ways to achieve them. I have had my depression medication decreased so that I can get weaned off of it eventually. My self-esteem and self-confidence is soaring to new heights. My energy levels are through the roof and I am so much more active with my young son. I went to Jones Beach for the first time in 17 years and I wore a bathing suit with no cover up and went in the water and had fun with my family last weekend. I felt so free! Iam finally taking care of me and I LOVE THE NEW ME ! ** AUGUST 23 -10 WEEK FOLLOW UP - 40 POUNDS DOWN! **: I hit another mile stone today, its now 40 pounds down in 10 weeks! Dory told me that Iam using my "tool" well and she is so proud of me and that I still do not need a fill. Stacey the dietician only advised me to try using soy milk since I told her that skim milk is starting to bother me in my Protein shakes. I am going on vacation next week and I feel confident that I will be able to make the right food choices and enjoy myself. September 27: Iam now down 45 pounds and that feel so great since this was a hard month for me. October 16: I weighted on my scale at home and It says 240 which means I finally have lost 50 pounds! I go for my 4 months check up on Ocotber 25th, maybe I can add a few more pounds to that number . Surgeon Info: Surgeon: Daniel Davis, M.D. Dr.Davis was the nicest doctor I have met in a really long time. Before I even had my consul with him I passed him in the hall way and he said hello and wished me luck as I began my journey. When I finally met him he carefully explained the surgery to me and the risks involved. He showed me diagrams and spreadsheets. He full explained my aftercare program to me and about how important it is to my overall success as a patient. I felt very safe in his care and would greatly refer him and his office to others. Right before he wheeled me into surgery he came to wish me luck and told me not to be nervous. My LAPBAND Surgery went as planned on 6/13/06 and iam doing well . Insurer Info: Blue Cross, Blue Shield Empire was great ,especially Paula of Medical Management . She calmed me down when I was frustrated and was very patient with me when I became very stressed out. I was approved with in two weeks. Approval is a long process! I began looking into WLS surgery a few years ago and I now know enough to give advice to others. Here is my words of wisdom: Before you even make an appointment to see a surgeon make sure that you talk to your primary doctor and that you have enough medical documentation about your weight loss struggle in your file. The surgeon is looking for this information and so is the insurance company when it comes to approval . Make sure that you have a good therapist if you are suffering from depression and get the support and any medicaion you need you will need a letter from her stating that you are mentally fit for surgery and the insurance company will ask for this letter. Also make sure when you call for an appointment to meet the surgeon that they fully take your insurance and ask if their are any co-payments or out of network fees. Also have questions ready to ask the surgeon or nurse . I meet with the Nurse Np first and the Dietican and then the doctor before surgery. I hope this is helpful to others on this site . Lisa Hall