BJean

Green, doncha just love that some people claim that Dubya is just acting dumb? I have a good friend who actually said that a couple of years ago. He said Dubya is crazy like a fox. However he has revised his assessment, of which I am pleased. And he has gone on to say that even he can't cut the guy anymore slack. And my friend is a former Marine (once a Marine, always a Marine) and has done some serious black ops for this country. He has his photo that was taken with 4 presidents on his office wall with their signatures and their thanks.

Everett Koop is your backup? Whoa, I'm surprised... Not. The bottom line, gadget, is that to abort or not abort should never be put in the hands of people who are not physically involved in the decision. It is completely and utterly wrong for some people to have control over other people's bodies, even when they, like you and Everett Koop, believe they are doing it for the greater good. There are several cases of women I know personally whose lives have been in jeapordy during labor and delivery. I don't think that I am an exception to the norm in this world. In fact, I almost lost my own daughter and I barely made it. Many women are told never to have children because of the risk of their own death. Birth control fails. In fact, all birth control fails some of the time. I am sure it would be fine with you if those of us who have problems with pregnancy, labor and delivery, were to abstain from sex for the rest of our lives. In fact, you might even like to police our activities so that we could never become pregnant. That way, the decision of whether to carry a baby to term that we did not plan for, will never come up. I am not willing, nor do I want my daughter to have to, petition the government with my doctor's testimony, if we were ever faced with an unwanted pregnancy. And I'll be damned if I'm going to abstain from sex just because you think it is wrong. Sex is a biological drive and a biological function that is healthy. God made me this way.

Ok, calling G.W. "Dubya", doesn't exactly equate to calling Obama "Hussein" and "Osama". :thumbup: I didn't go line by line down your overwhelming list of items that you love that you say this president has done and point out the error of your ways, so how about a truce? Either that or I'm gonna have to do some serious head butting with you. :thumbup: Yup. That's what this country's politics is all about. :eek:

You don't have to be a liberal to disagree with most of what you listed Elenation. Dubya is a buffoon. He has not restored dignity to the White House. He has done just the opposite. Separation of Church and State is the only intelligent approach to life in these United States. We couldn't disagree more. And yet I quite respect you.

re: "These cases are virtually nil" - care to cite some stats on that? Also, how in the world could you possibly know what is in a woman's mind when she is considering abortion? Some women absolutely do think they will die if they are unable to get an abortion. You tend to make light of or ignore the women's problems and rights in favor of the fetus. That isn't practical, fair or right as far as I am concerned. You know I am not against adoption or against women carrying a baby to term even when she may not want to keep her baby, right? The bottom line on this entire issue is that women are all different with different problems, different mental states of mind, different socio-economic issues, different medical issues and you are wanting to force each and every one of them to carry an unwanted, unplanned baby to term. My belief is that each and every woman should continue to have the right to make her own choices in each and every case. One band-aide does not fit all and this issue is much too important to pretend (or wish) that the only choice a woman should have is a cut and dried decision that should be governed by law.

I like the way you put it about the ability to change, green. In America we seem to think that if someone does something good or bad, it represents who they are forever. Forgiveness doesn't seem to be one of our strong points. Change isn't embraced either. Regarding Obama, our television in Texas is being flooded with an Obama political ad that is beginning to wear thin. He is beginning to sound just like every other politician. It is campaign retoric because it doesn't really say much of anything and he's trying to play on our sympathy because his mom died from cancer at an early age. I do know that a 15 or 30 second spot isn't enough time to say anything in depth, but I think he needs to learn from Kerry and others that running the same ad over and over is a major turn off. Of course he's completely right about health care and the problems that we face in fixing it, but I'm reminded of Jimmy Carter when I hear that he's planning to "fix Washington". Ain't gonna happen. Presidents have to work WITH Congress, not against them. Clinton learned it early on and did very well (except for the extremely mean-spirited right wing that never let up and nearly drove him into the ground in the end.) Now if Obama convinces me that he is able to work Congress like Dubya and Reagan did, I'll be on his team. You do understand that I don't approve of the things that Dubya and Reagan did, but I do respect the fact that they got their way most of the time. :mad:

lisah your last paragraph is hilarious. I'm with green. I know my kids often ask me if my parents were really the same ones who produced my siblings. :mad: gadget: we do go off and kill people who have less value all the time. As green pointed out, it is the way of the world. I agreed and said that there's no way to change it. You seemed to agree too. But I couldn't disagree with you more when you said, "The mother won't die by bringing the baby to term." That is just plain wrong. Some women do die. When abortion was illegal some women committed suicide when they realized they were pregnant. Women die in childbirth more often than you'd probably like to admit. Women can be driven to the brink of insanity and beyond when they learn they have been impregnated against their wishes. The problems an unwanted pregnancy can present to some women are very real and tangible and sometimes insurmountable. And there are many women who could never give a child up for adoption but who are unable to take care of a child in any case, and for miriad reasons. You have no right to demand that all women, in every circumstance, absolutely must carry a child to term, no matter what. If we legislate your beliefs, we would definitely be saying that the unborn fetus trumps the life of the mother.

Jack I respect you, but if you can't see how weakened we are as a nation and if you can't easily itemize the things that have broken down our economy, our military, our unification as a free nation, our approach to enviornmental issues and much more, I am very surprised indeed. Anyway, green has done a good job of saying what I believe is true and a lot about what is wrong in America due to the president specifically and the Republicans in general. Once again, thank you green! Jack, what has this president done that you agree with and are proud of? Please tell me it isn't the tax cuts. If it is, I'd love to know how this has actually benefitted most Americans to any measurable extent.

faithmd: Finally, voice of reason and sanity here! Thank goodness. I thought I was the lone ranger on this topic. I know you've been here awhile too so you obviously have some knowledge and may even have some experience with the downside of being overly restricted. Thanks for the backup!

Ok. I'll shut up. Everyone probably has to learn for themselves.

Green, thank you sincerely for bringing a fresh viewpoint to this discussion. You are absolutely correct about there being different values put on different lives. It exists throughout the world. It will always be that way until we someday reach nirvana where everyone is equal in everyway - which is impossible here on earth. For some people to believe that an undeveloped fetus is more important and "trumps" the value of the life of its' host, is unacceptable. For people to say that pregnancy, labor and delivery and giving birth to a living breathing human being is an "inconvenience" is simplifying and presuming to the point of ridiculousness. Having a child should be considered much, much, much more important than an just an "inconvenience" to anyone - although I do know that human life is treated that way by many people, unfortunately. The discussion about adoption here points to how easy or difficult that particilar legality can affect each person touched by it. The fact that we are all so different only goes to underscore the fact that there is no one perfect answer to the question of unwanted pregnancies. That is why they must all be dealt with on a singular basis.

Pix, I didn't know that B12 could have a positive affect on liver function. Very cool! I just got some that is to be dissolved under the tongue. I haven't been good about taking it but now I definitely will be! Thanks a lot!!!

I used to listen to people here who said that they had so many cc's in a certain size band and try to decide whether I had enough restriction by listening to others. Everyone is different. Your fill amount cannot be gauged by anyone else's fill amount. It is dangerous for people to get the mindset that they must have a certain amount of fill to be successful. I played into that game and I am now paying the price. Please be careful, ya'll. There can be repercussions if you overfill and stay that way for too long. Btw congratulations on your success, rharriet. Writing down what you eat is always beneficial to people who are trying to change their eating plan. That's a great suggestion.

I thought I was going to look like Sharon Osborne within a year. No dice for me either. I lost beautifully for the first 5 months. Took off 42 lbs. Then I hit a wall. I insisted on lots of restriction and got to the point where I could hardly keep down 2 bites of real food. I became hungry all the time. I was obsessed with trying to figure out what I could eat and keep down. I found that I could eat nuts and chocolate. I gained about 12 lbs. back. I have been as frustrated as you can imagine. In retrospect I am sure that I thought I would just watch the weight drop off like a bypass patient even though everyone said over and over that the band is just a tool. I never expected to have such an appetite, especially after such a great initial weight loss and relatively no appetite. Like Jack, I have made it to a BMI of 35. Much better, but not out of the woods. And initially after the good loss, my blood work stats dropped significantly. Now I have found, after 1.5 years with the band, and recently losing 10 of the 12 lbs I'd gained back, that my stats are creeping back up. Even my blood sugar which yesterday was at 103! I recently contracted an eye infection, a painful kidney infection, and now I have shingles (not the house kind). My family doctor is checking me for auto-immune disorders and I'm scared that I might have Lupus or some other serious ailment. I haven't taken the time to sit down with my LB doctor although I'm sure he would want to know about all of this. I think Jack had it right when he suggested that this is not a sprint but a long-term marathon. Getting in too big a hurry can produce problems and what we really should want is good health over the long haul. :mad:

I was emailed to see if I would be interested in becoming a moderator. I was surprised. I had always wondered how one became a moderator. I wish I had the time. Wheet, you're my hero.

Hey gang, I read that banded patients should never take NSAIDS because of the potential for erosion where the band contacts the stomach. I also read that it takes quite some time for this to happen, but I wouldn't want to do anything that could possibly cause erosion. That can, if bad enough, cause long-term problems and even death. My GP (family doc - who does not do LB surgery) told me about a patient of his who had been banded and wound up in intensive care because of erosion and who had to spend over a month in the hospital with two surgeries and half of her stomach removed. I have really bad knees and I have taken Naproxyn and Aleve the entire time I've had the band because no one told me that it was risky. I am now using Extra Strength Tylenol - so now I only have to worry about my liver. :mad:

Thanks, Elenation. But just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get me. Right? :mad:

Hey... wait a minute... I resemble that remark!

If you're telling someone that they must have a child, you're trying to play God and no one has that right over another human being's body and belief system. You also have absolutely no right to force a woman to get an abortion. As far as I'm concerned, they are one and the same. Neither scenario is acceptable or fair or right. Like I said before gadget, keep up all your good work in supporting women who have unplanned and unwanted pregnancies. You're providing a valuable service if you are helping to give them the adoption option. But your guidance should never become force.

Sure can't say as I blame you Sunwyse! Sometimes it's hard for the natives to muster up some interest in the elections. :mad:

Ok. Well I revise my earlier post about Florida to say that Sarasota is very neat. Living on one of the coasts is a far different experience than living inland! Always enjoyed the Salvadore Dali museum, the Ringling Museum and house and other museums in the Sarasota area, rather than the attractions in Orlando like Disney, Sea World, etc., teaming with sweaty, grumpy tourists.

As far as I'm concerned, Florida is a nice place to be from. I wish I could say that my 14+ years there were sublime, but I'd be lying! I've heard that the R.E. market there has taken quite the nose dive. Maybe you could actually find a shack that would be a good place to hang for short visits. We wouldn't want you to abuse the lovely new you by spending too much time sweatin' with the oldies! Does he have a particular spot in mind?

Choosing adoption is not ALWAYS the best answer. I believe I understand your feelings on the issue, Ceredad, and of course your feelings are valid and important. However as much as anti-choice people would like to believe that adoption is a perfect solution to a very difficult problem, it just is not. To compel fertile women to have children because some women cannot have children is completely unfair and completely wrong. If a woman wants to have a baby that is the result of an unwanted and unplanned pregnancy, she is completely and totally free to do so. Thankfully there are many women who make that choice. But people have no right to force women to have children. This issue is way too important to everyone involved, including the baby, for the government or religious people or people of certain beliefs to make the decisions for all women on whether or not to bear unwanted children. This is an issue that is being discussed because it is so very important. There are many people who feel that it is within their rights to protect unborn children. There are many more people who believe that it is a personal issue, to be dealt with by the affected people, not an issue to be decided by elected officials, supreme court justices or their next door neighbor. (Good point, Peaches!) We better all be prepared to deal with it big time if a Republican gets elected. In fact, our current president may have already put the wheels in motion to go forward on this issue. We should be discussing it and we should be deciding exactly how we feel about it. Do you want your government to be run by people who want to make these kinds of personal decisions for you?

Green I actually thought that if the Republicans ran Mitt, they might be able to put him in office. I did think he presented quite a few issues that would be difficult to overcome, but there was something that was attractive about his demeanor and background too. I guess it's just McCain's turn. A little late, but he's sure paid his dues!

Grace from Utah I can help but wonder where you got your information about Bill Clinton's cheating? He's heated on her for years and years and Monica wasn't the last time? How exactly do you know that? You got a crystal ball? How do you feel about George W. Bush's alcohol abuse, cocaine use and bad, bad performance in business? Same goes? He's always abused alcohol and the rest and he'll always abuse alcohol and the other stuff?