BJean

You are hilarious. The more I read your thoughts, the better I like you. I am glad to know that you are not ultra anything because there for a while on a couple of different threads I figured you for kind of an extremist. I used to be more conservative than I am today. And it's funny. I've watched my kids and when they were younger, they were definitely declaring that they were Republicans. They thought that most of what they heard the Republican candidates say, was what they thought was right. (pardon the pun) Now that they are maturing and have been around long enough to see how the different parties actually operate, they have come around (all on their own) to see things more as I do. That is to say that they think that the Democratic candidates care more about the environment and the less fortunate . And this administration and the war have done a lot to turn them completely off to anyone who runs as a Republican. The thing I respect about them is that they are actually doing their homework. They aren't taking anyone else's word for it. I confess that I was on autopilot when I was young and I believed everything my parents said about politics. Which for them was true, but as time went on, things did change. They grew up during the depression and watched their parents struggle and go without. So their liberal leanings hinged a great deal on the fact that their parents were not affleuent, or even upper middle class. They were not dirt poor, but pretty darned poor. When I started thinking more for myself, I spent a lot of time reading and watching how things unfolded and I wound up marrying a very conservative, religious, nearly perfect individual. Since I loved and respected him so much, and since our livelihood benefitted from a more Republican political position, I eased away from my parents politics and closer to my husband's. Now I believe I have truly come into my own. I have stopped worrying so much about what everybody else thinks and I'm not afraid to argue for what I believe is true. The war and having Bush in the White House greatly aided my husband's business (and my pocketbook) but I still believe that this administration has it all wrong. So it is no contest for me. I believe what I've read of Obama's. I believe that he is sincere when he is says what he wants to do. And I believe that what he wants to do is the right thing. Now someone like Jack will tell you that it doesn't really matter that much who is president. And I understand his point completely. My DH would agree with him. However I have witnessed both parties being in the White House, with and without Congress being of the same party, and I can tell you that it does matter. As I have said before, if you like the things that this administration has accomplished in the past 7 years, then I think you should vote for McCain. If you do not like the way things have gone, then I don't think you have any choice but to vote for Obama if you truly want your vote to count for something. The other thing I want to say is that even if he has less experience than McCain, he is certainly not the first young and relatively inexperienced man to become president and I believe in taking a chance on him and the hope he brings to the White House, especially when the alternative is so obviously not what I believe is right for this country. And the last thing I'll say elenation is that I respect your viewpoint and I wish more people gave this election as much thought as you have.

jlg, you're right. He's brown, not black. And I hope that he does represent the best of both worlds and not the worst of either. I am part American Indian. That does not make me an Indian. (Although I would be proud to be called an American Indian.) I am also Scotch-Irish. And that doesn't make me Scotch-Irish either. I may have a few genetic traits of both, but I can't exclusively identify with either. It reminds me of when Tiger Woods was first known to the public and there was such a huge deal made about him being the first black golfer on the tour and allowed in the exclusively white clubhouses. He isn't sorry that his father gave him his black genes, but he also didn't feel that he was exclusively a black person. His mother is Asian and he would be dissing her if he did wear his blackness as if he were only black. He was a new category, but the media and public only saw him as black. There aren't too many of us in America that are exclusively one race. However we forget about our own mixed blood and are quick to label others who are not caucasian, as completely Asian, Black, Arab, Indian, or whatever even though they may be just as mixed genetically as those of us who appear to be totally caucasian, but who also have Asian, Black, Arab or Indian genes. We sure can be dumb bells sometimes, eh? :thumbup:

Some people are predicting that a massive increase in well drilling or not, gas prices will reach $7.00 a gallon by 2010. Shouldn't we all support developing better ways of supplying energy instead of continuing to use so much oil? I'm for spending our time and money on refining electric driven cars and refining and making nuclear power plants safer as well as harnessing wind and upgrading and using existing solar energy processing cells. They may only be alarmists, but there are people who believe that polar ice may melt completely this year and that from then on, ice at the north pole will freeze, melt and refreeze each year. How can that NOT have a huge effect on our planet? Even if they are exaggerating, what do we have to lose by doing everything it takes, retooling, reinventing and upgrading to wean ourselves off of our dependence on oil in this country? More drilling and more easily accessible and cheaper oil sources will likely encourage further delays in the changes we need to make.

Jachut: How very big of you to apologize and take responsibility for this thread! I am serious. I am very impressed with what you've said about your part in this mess. I have to do the same thing. I got pretty uptight on the other thread when I decided to go to bat for someone I thought was being jumped on by several people. I am sure I went too far in my posts and I became defensive when I read a couple of laurend's posts. I apologize for that. I hadn't been fully participating on the original thread and I realize that I may not have really understood the total picture. I think that sometimes when we read the written word, especially when there are disagreements, it is easy to think that the writer is being meaner than they actually intended to be. I've seen that happen lots of times and you can see the points where that happened on this thread. The thing that I hated the most about how this unfolded was that you, Jachut, said that you've been criticized for being successful. I think that is every bit as bad as someone criticizing another person for not being successful. The one thing we all have in common here is our band and our goal to lose weight and be healthier. We should not be critical of each other on one extreme or the other. None of us is perfect in the weight department or we wouldn't be here at LBT. We have all had issues or are having issues about weight. We are commrades in that. I believe there have been some awesome personal stories that have come out of this thread and if those continue, it will be a good thing. Another good thing is that maybe by venting, like we both did Jachut, it has been healthy and it gave us an opportunity to bring out some very important issues that were boiling under the surface. I am glad that I have had an opportunity to get to know you a little better and I apologize for being hard on you. I am also sorry that I was hard on laurend. I'm sure she didn't mean to hurt me.

Hmmm, yeah I guess you're talkin' to me and I reckon I'll answer to Billy Jean. We got into a more personal discussion over at: Poll-Democrat or Republican?

Obama, acting black? If you mean that he takes on some of the issues that affect black Americans, I totally agree. If his wife has been outspoken about her feelings, I believe that it can be a good thing if it makes more Americans aware of some of the relevant issues that too often get swept under the rug. As for his inexperience, I haven't pulled it up to verify dates of service in the Senate, etc., but I did live through it - Jack Kennedy was about Obama's age and he had not served for very long in the Senate. They said back then that he was a young whippersnapper and that he didn't deserve to be president and they couldn't believe he would take on someone as powerful as Lyndon Johnson. Well that turned out to be absolutely and completely wrong. Although John Kennedy was young and somewhat inexperienced, and he was a very powerful and effective president. He and his brother actually did go about trying to make the changes that they believed would benefit America, the land of the free and home of the brave. We all know what they got for their efforts. Back then, Republicans absolutely hated the Kennedys. Even if you're young you have heard people speak ill of the Kennedys. At least you've certainly heard them speak ill of Ted Kennedy. And yet, anyone who has ever served with him in the Senate and those in the House of Representatives, Democrats and Republicans alike, say that he is a tireless worker and no one denies that he has been responsible for a whole lot of good legislation during his tenure. It is primarily legislation that benefits the average American. The people in his state are proud of him and appreciate the work he has accomplished in his long career in Washington. Ted Kennedy thinks Barack Obama is fit for the job. He endorsed him pretty early in the game, and the Kennedys and the Clintons have been good friends since before Bill was president. As a Republican I know that doesn't impress you, but I think it is impressive for Barack Obama to have been endorsed by Ted Kennedy and so many other very important people.

chickie: I went to your photos and read your press clippings. Wow! What an amazing story. You look fabulous!! And you're running marathons. What a great accomplishment. You've got to be proud as can be with how well you handled the surgeries and now your healthy maintenance phase. And you're so young, so this is going to mean so much to you for the rest of your life. I honestly can't imagine who would have or could have said anything negative to you through all this. It is completely beyond me. I'm shocked and sad to know that you had to deal with that. I'm sure you've become a very strong person throughout the whole ordeal and I certainly commend you for that. You know they say that the things that don't kill us make us stronger. I'm sure that you don't mean to say unkind things to anyone who is having issues trying to lose weight because if anyone knows how bad it feels to be criticized, you certainly do.Thanks so much for sharing your story.

You know this is exactly the kind of stuff that made me jump in and get all upset about the way one person was being treated. It is one thing for one person to "let someone have it" but here at R&Rs, it doesn't ever seem to be a one-on-one debate. Everyone has to choose sides and then well, rant and rave and get mean. That wouldn't be so bad but it gets entirely out of hand when one person is taking all the hits. Everyone seems to go too far when it goes on for so long. Like for instance, laurend and I have always seemed to be able to get along nicely even when we disagreed. However these couple of threads brought out the beast in both of us and now even friends can't seem to get past it. I would never threaten to leave because it would just make too many people happy. Well seriously, I wouldn't threaten to leave because it doesn't hurt anyone else and just makes people wonder why you can't take the heat if you're wanting to be in the kitchen. Jasmine I think you're a very cool person and I hope you and chickie will see your way clear to take a break and start over again someplace else. We need to stick a fork in this thread! Jachut made an attemp, I made an attempt and Wasa made an attempt. Why don't we just get back to relating our good experiences and forget about giving each other a hard time? LBT should never be a place where people who are losing quickly give those who aren't a hard time for not being succssful. And it certainly shouldn't be a place where the opposite is true. And I don't care if it is at Rants & Raves, Homosexual atheists or Right Wing fanatics threads. Giving each other hell for our weight issues is just utterly ridiculous.

benhamgal: You believe that oil regenerates? You think there is a never-ending supply? And you think that even though there are much better alternatives out there that will not endanger our planet, that since we need oil, we should just keep drilling everywhere and tough doo-dee for the planet? Those are some mighty interesting declarations, dude. I'd love to know your sources for that information.

No wonder you're as opinionated as I elenation - you had a strong father like I did. I'm glad you're bringing up your youngun's right too. On the discrimination question: I reckon that if I did not vote for McCain because of his age, that would be age discrimination. I do believe that it is something people should consider but it isn't why I'm not voting for him. If I were a conservative Republican, it probably wouldn't stop me from voting for him and I would undoubtedly use your rationale. We definitely have to declare an impasse as regards the Reagan years. When you aren't conservative, it is impossible to endorse the workings of such a conservative administration. I also know a lot of behind the scenes things that the mass media never brought forth. Those things certainly helped color my Reagan looking glass. As a conservative, I imagine you're pleased with the Supreme Court's recent rulings. Since I am not a conservative, I am quaking in my boots. I'm sure that must bring a little smile to your face.

ebrow, you're 19 and you're gonna vote? Good for you!! And you know the candidates and feel good about casting a vote for the right man for you. I am very impressed. I voted as soon as I was able, but I had a politician in the family and he probably would have disowned us if we had acted like voting didn't matter.

Sorry, elenation. You're right, it's a serious problem because it's not something that McCain can do a thing about. And I am sorry if you think I am being discriminatory. I know you're not supposed to ask someone how old they are when you interview them for a job. However if you were hiring someone to work for you and the job carried huge responsibility and the job put your employee in charge of lots of money and the job was physically stressful because of travel, personal appearances, etc., and the employee needed to carry a gun at all times and always use good judgement before pulling that gun out, and you wanted someone for a minimum of four years, would you honestly choose a 70+ year old, who has had cancer and still has problems from lets say a car accident, over a 45-ish person who is extremely intelligent and had lots of creative new ideas, is extremely cautious before whipping out his gun and threatening someone and on top of all that is also physically fit? Well I guess anyone might if they knew for sure that they agreed with the elder candidate's proposed plan of action for their company and disagreed with the younger person's new ideas. That's the real rub, isn't it? I am well on in years myself just in case you think I am too young to appreciate what someone with advanced years can offer. I happen to know first hand (although I am not in my 70's) that there are a lot of changes that most people have to deal with when they are over 55. And besides, some of my best friends are brilliant senior citizens. I am sorry I'm the one to toss it into the discussion, but I do believe that it is a relevant consideration. Btw, I wasn't talking about the period of time that Reagan took office the first time or even early in his 2nd term. I was talking about the last couple of years that the was in office and obviously had Alzheimers. That affected the man's abilities, there's no question about it. Which brings up a little pet peeve of mine: the Republicans have spent a lot of time spinning PR about how great Reagan was and they drop his name when they want to impress people what a great job the Republicans did when he was in office. I would probably buy it if I didn't have such a good memory and if I could put out of my mind the 200 or so people around him who were indicted and/or convicted of criminal behavior while working for him.

I sure can't argue with the fact that McCain is experienced. I don't think that he will make a good president, but I can't fault his life experiences. I honestly think he is too old and a little too out of shape to handle the job. I'm not really guessing about that. I know how much things deteriorate as we get over 55. Let's all remember the last few years of Reagan's final term and give McCain's age some serious consideration. Another for instance... my good neighbor was a fighter pilot for the Navy. Yes, he did tours in 'nam and as a career, it doesn't get much more strenuous than being a Navy fighter pilot. He's now 71 and he is very involved in an organization for retired military pilots. In fact, he holds one of the highest offices and he travels frequently for various meetings/conferences, etc. He tells me how hard it is these days to get it all done. He loves his duties in the organization but he feels he needs to step down and allow someone who is more energetic do his job. And here's a guy who still edges his lawn because he doesn't like the way his lawn guys do it. In a really high wind the other day, a section of our heavy cedar fence was blown down into the alley after being hit by flying patio furniture. He single-handedly (after delivering meals on wheels) pulled that huge, very heavy section of fence out of the ally and into our driveway. So yeah, he's still in good shape and he's still active mentally, but he'll be the first to tell you that he is not as quick thinking and fast on his feet as he used to be. Btw, his kids are in their 50's.

Well what we've tended to vote for in the past are people who have been deemed very "qualified" for the office. You've pointed out quite eloquently how that has worked out for us. Maybe what we really need are less qualified plain old American folks who give a rats patoot for a change. Actually some of the most effective congressmen from time to time have been the inexperienced ones who have come in wanting to change the system. I disagree that nothing good ever comes out of Washington though. I just think that nothing MUCH good comes out of Washington. Occasionally we have a shining moment that is inspiring. Many of the small accomplishments are lost on the general public because they get no media coverage. Good stuff doesn't tend to sell. Controversial and bad stuff does. I like Pelosi as compared to many others up there. She works for what she believes in and doesn't mince words about it. Of course I know you don't see it that way, but I definitely do. In fact, I rather admire her brass ovaries.

Hang in there, hon. As my dear dietician says, we need to celebrate our successes no matter how small and put the failures completely out of our minds. She says our brains are very powerful and if we think of ourselves as failing, it can turn into a self-fulfilling prophecy. (And we can't believe others when they tell us we're failing either!)

Brandy I am sure you are puking sick and tired of seeing your name in print in this context. I apologize to you as well. I certainly never intended for you to be hurt even more by these exchanges. On a positive note, I'll bet your skin is a lot thicker and hereafter you'll be well able to take care of yourself without any input from the likes of me!

Jachut: I think in retrospect everything you're claiming about the way you feel regarding the Brandy bout is clear. I do get it. Serously. But when the fracas was ongoing, your language and that of serveral others did not come across as being anything but completely intolerant and even accusatory. I don't have any problem whatsoever with anyone telling their stories and calling someone on it when they've been asked for advice and then that person does not take the advice - especially when their reasons for not taking the advice are flimsy excuses. What I complained about were the words that became very personal affronts to someone who was honestly struggling and wanting to open a dialogue about it. You are a person with a particular way of thinking and so am I. We're not bound to change one another, but if we read something that the other has posted that we vehemently diagree with, it's pretty certain that we're going to say something. You and I both have strong personalities, that's for sure. I understand that and I believe you understand that, but I don't think that everyone else does and I hate like hell to see someone get hurt here when they are having serious problems, just because you or I have strong opinions and we like to voice them. I usually welcome it when someone lets me know I've stepped over the boundaries of civility and it has certainly happened before. I can handle it. And I hope that you and I become friends because we'd spent some time communicating back and forth and in trying to understand each other, and we're actually learning where each other's coming from. At this point, I'm sure you aren't a bad person. I hope you can say the same for me.

laurend: Whoa there. I apologize if I put words in your mouth that you never intended. I added that little sentence about your post because I felt a very strong undercurrent in a couple of your previous posts on this topic when you let me know that you thought I was out of line. I was extremely disappointed that you would choose to call me down since I have on so many occasions supported you. I guess I thought that if you disagreed with me you might just see your way clear to let it pass without comment. But heck, you gotta do what you gotta do and obviously your support of the way BrandyII was being treated said it quite plainly. I decided not to say anything before now but when you felt it necessary to post that perhaps when a person is having problems and can't handle the heat at LBT they should go someplace else where they can find peace and support, I just felt I needed to let you know I thought that was going too far. If the language I used is stronger than yours, just know that it is how your post read to me. I guess you, for one, aren't ready to let it go and if this ridiculous discussion is ever going to go away, I'm going to have to just stop responding to the things I find to be rude and unacceptable.

In your earlier post (4:38) Jachut you said that maybe since you're no longer losing weight and you're into the maintainance phase you may just not feel real tolerant of those people who aren't getting the job done. There may really be something to that. And honestly I can understand that. It's been boring to me sometimes when I read post after post where like flipper said, they're not eating correctly, not exercising, and wondering why the band isn't working. Sounds like laurend is definitely feeling that way too since she seems willing to toss some of us out on our ears without a backward glance. I think the problem with some parts of this discussion and most of BrandyII's thread is that we have people at diametrically opposite ends of the spectrum in our journeys. We're just not communicating. You don't have the patience to offer anything supportive beyond telling us that the only means to the end is lots and lots of exercise (preferably running) and very little food. Whereas some of us who are still having difficulty reaching our goals and who are groping with emotional issues that we are trying to get past, feel that this hard-assed, hard-lined attitude is not helpful and is way too harsh. I think we've beaten this old horse to death and I suggest that we get back to the interesting stories about people's personal experiences and what they've learned and stop calling trying to correct each other. Okay? Anybody got a problem with that? :blushing:

I was excited when the discussion spoke to depression and depression as it affects overeating. There were a couple of awesome posts about that!!

Sorry you missed 'em Ninja, check out their posts on pages 7 and 8. We didn't bring it up again. They just never let it go and we got tired of it - once again. Hey I gotta say everyone has a right to post anything they want - and Jachut certainly has claimed this post as her very own so she certainly can post whatever she deems fit to print. We are equally free to protest certain attitudes and language if we choose. Nobody likes whiners or even whingers (to speak the Queen's English) and I think we all agree on that. What some of us don't care for is someone bullying someone else and others piling on. And I just didn't see it as "tough love" it stank more like gloating and sneering much of the time.

Whingers wasn't in my dictionary. I thought they were spelling whiners incorrectly because they seemed to be talking about hating whiners. My mistake. Complainers compaining about complainers makes more sense. :Angel_anim:

Sades: I think we all judge other people. It's in our nature. But not all of us find it necessary to publically dress someone down who we judge to be inferior to us. You have to wonder why people got enjoyment out of that and why they seem to want to continue ragging on about it.

*Jasmine* I don't think it is whiners they seem to have a problem with - it's whingers.

I find if someone is seriously wanting to share the reason for their success and if they seriously care about another person, whom let's call Joan, they will share their story and take the time to go into details about how they felt going through the process. Let's say Joan doesn't accept the help or just doesn't get it, or just isn't willing to make a change, a truly caring person will probably realize that they wasted their time, but you wouldn't expect them to just haul off and verbally slap Joan in the face and tell her that she is lazy and keep heaping on other negative insults. Because if she did, her "caring" would seem extremely disingenuous.