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"Increased self-esteem and confidence" is a euphemism they use to deny their own superficial side. Women also consistently rate taller men as "more confident" as well as wealthier men. When a guy has money he is also "established, ambitious, knows what he wants, focused, etc." Now to be fair, I'm sure losing 80lbs will increase your confidence, but that is not key - your weight is. I have this little self deprecating joke I only share with close friends. What does a girl call a super confident fat guy? Creep.

As far as how we carry ourselves and our level of confidence, I should mention that I am somewhat of an expert on the subject. Believe it or not, there is an actual science to that type of thing and I have studied it at length. Things like body language, confidence and eye contact are seen as indicators of our standing in society. People who see these things make such judgments and then choose whether or not it is in their best interest to align themselves with us. Relationships after all are about trade-offs. We each receive something from the other person. When we give but do not recieve... The problem with being over weight is that the negative social stigma outweighs the positive messages that come form the way we carry ourselves, etc. Suppose the impression of confidence gives you +2 value points, good eye contact +1, charisma +2, six pack abs +5 etc. Well, being over wight can be -20 social value points. So, in the end, while you may have +5 from your value indicators, you score a -15 over all. This means that you are perceived as a drain on the value of others and that it is against their best interest to align with you. Remember the popular kids in high school? All good looking, thin and had high value. They might have had the hot car, athletic ability, good looks, rich parents, etc. Membership in the group is based on your ability to increase the overall value of the group. When you are over weight, you detract from it. Unfortunately, this isn't limited to high school, it is a fact of life and most people in this thread have experienced it. Now you know why.

OK, thanks for all the women who replied to this thread. I appreciate you sharing your personal preferences. I'd really like to hear from some men on their actual experiences.

You know, you might consider finding a more tactful way of expressing your self given the forum you chose to participate in. Most of us feel a lot of pain as a result of being over weight. I know that I personally often feel that if it wasn't for my enormous penis I wouldn't have anything going for me at all.

Well, it sure is encouraging to hear that so many people no longer feel marginalized. I hate being perceived as low value simply because of my weight. Hard to believe people would think more of a person just because they are thin. But, in watching people I have noticed that all the people who are in the most desirable social circles are all thin. Of course, those people may not truly be "desirable." In fact, they may be superficial, rotten people. But you get the idea.

Not to sound like a jerk but I assume the women responding in this thread have had weight issues themselves. Do you think the same would be true of a drop dead gorgeous 9 with size 1 pants and and 34ds? No, I'm betting you had better be at least 5'10" with six pack abs. Or filthy stinking rich - that works too.

That reminds me of the following scene from the movie "Arthur." Shopkeeper: You're that billionaire guy. May I ask; how does it feel to have all that money? Arthur: It feels great. Shopkeeper: Stupid question.

This seems like a topic everyone loves to weigh in on - no pun intended. I am particularly interested in hearing from men who lost a great deal of weight and how this affects their ability to attract women. I would expect that most women on this forum are more open minded when it comes to overweight men. And as for the penis thing; men do gain inches as they lose weight because there is a pad of fat there that takes up space. In fact, that might even be an interesting poll. Again, no pun intended. Back to the point - I must admit that I am into looks. I like hot women with great bodies. And I feel that in order to expect them to be into me, I have to measure up. Now some guys (who just happen to be thin) tell me an extra 100lbs shouldn't matter and it's all attitude. I call BS on that theory. Are there any GUYS here who can help settle the debate?

Interesting replies. Many of the obvious injustices are not surprising. What I find most interesting are the subtle slights such as the person above who said people assume he or she was stupid and the other that said "I was invisible." It seems the subtle things can hurt the most because I often can't figure out the reason for them. I wonder why people give less credence to what I say and dismiss my ideas for no good reason. I also get this cold shoulder thing as if my presence makes others look bad. I guess they figure people are judged by the company they keep. Funny thing too, it doesn't seem to take much additional weight for people to start looking down on you. 20lbs overweight is where it begins in my experience. I guess people just feel that if you are overweight, everything about you is discredited.

Band is way less risky, reversible and leaves your bowels intact. Google "dumping syndrome." Band is adjustable or even reversible. Plus, you can drink alcohol with the band but not with the bypass. Truth be told, I would be interested in the sleeve but insurance won't pay for it and I'm not sure if the stomach would eventually grow back. For me, there is just no way I would do the full bypass - it's just too radical.

Just wondering who here has experienced discrimination and or social marginalization as a result of their weight. Better yet, I would love to hear about people who experienced this but no longer do. I often feel like people have a bad impression of me due to my weight. They think I am a glutton, lazy and of weak character. Of course they don't say it, but I can tell they think it. I even think that other single men think I will scare the girls away and bring down the general quality of the group.

It almost seems like a silly conversation but I have one friend in particular (a life long thin guy) who insist that obesity is not a factor for men when it comes to attracting women. Although conventional thinking holds that "women don't care about looks" I rarely see over weight men (especially short ones) with attractive women - save for very wealthy men of course. So, I would like to hear specifically from men who have lost significant weight (100lbs or so). Or, guys with waists 34" or less who have lost a good 10". Do you now have an easier time attracting women? And please don't give me any nonsense about being more confident. 4 beers makes any man confident.

I have been a life long gym rat and now that I am beyond my muscle building years I have the same problem. If you are still young, working on strength or body building followed by 1/2 hour of cardio makes for a much more interesting workout. Also, there are other fitness activities. Look for a cross training gym, get into kettle bells, take a martial arts class, yoga, swimming, etc. If the weather is nice, try bike riding, wind sailing, kyaking or anything to get the heart rate up. Many local malls even do morning mall walks where you can meet people and even do some window shopping.

It is only the individule policies. Since my insurance is through my business, I wanted group coverage but the agent sold me on the individule plan. I have since learned that she did so to make a quick sale as the group coverage is far superior for about the same price. Anyway, I am interested in any legislation regarding the issue. Health insurance is defenitly something that requires government regulation.

We will see

My understanding is that only the individual plans do not cover it. I would defenitly check though.

As of Jan 1st 2009, if you have BCBS MI individule plan you are NOT covered for bariatric surgery. Evidently this was covered before then but they have decided to unilateraly change the terms of their coverage without notifying members. FYI, medical equipment isn't covered by this plan either so now I have to buy a CPAP machine out of pocket for my sleep apnea. I knew I shouldn't have let them talk me out of purchasing a group plan for my business. That will change monday. I plan on increasing coverage and ringing the bill up as high as I can whether I need it or not

I have the preferred PPO which I'm pretty sure will cover the procedure. I'm wondering if anyone knows the specific requirements and if there is a 6 month or a year Dr. supervised diet required.

Flowers, isn't it odd that they don't pass the same judgment on their inability to eat as they do on your inability to stop. I think most people are under the belief that everyone experiences hunger the same way they do. Now some people do just not care what they eat and not make an effort, but I know that many people including myself fight the battle every day with little success. Either way, I find that people absolutely refuse to entertain the possibility that hunger affects different people differently and that people's bodies respond differently to diet.

What I find fascinating is that even when I explain the latest research to people they simply dismiss it out of hand favoring their bigoted views instead - and this is a form of bigotry IMO. Anyway, here is a small snippet on leptin. I encourage people to read more on the subject. And BTW, I have one friend that takes a calorie supplement and is still a bean pole. Another kid I roomed with in college ate a large pizza and drank a 12 pack of beer every day. Of numerous thin people I have asked, few claim to have ever found any need to restrict their food intake. Nearly all obese individuals are resistant to leptin, the hormone that signals the brain that our appetites are satisfied and we can stop eating. For this reason, explains study co-senior author Barbara Kahn, M.D., Chief of Endocrinology and Metabolism at BIDMC, efforts made several years ago to use leptin in drug form to treat obesity were largely unsuccessful. “The majority of obese people actually have high levels of leptin,” explains Kahn, who is a Professor of Medicine at Harvard Medical School. “But they are unable to put it to use.”

There are people who are relatively thin but can gain weight if they really let themselves go - these are the ones to which you are referring. They have no issues with overwhelming cravings and FOR THEM gaining or losing is simply about choices and laying off the morning dough nuts. They mistakenly assume everyone is like them and they THINK they know what we go through. There are also two types of naturally thin people. A) People who can eat pizza and drink beer daily and not gain an ounce. people who just don't experience much hunger and only need a small meal to satisfy themselves. Both of these types also have no clue what fat people experience. Regardless of which of the three types people are, they just figure if it isn't an issue for them than it isn't an issue for you either. I have one naturally thin friend who insists that it's all about will power - he has been trying to quit smoking for 10 years but still doesn't get it.

Does anybody else receive words of discouragement and a complete lack of understanding from others? In addition to being over weight, I am also very muscular so people tend to think I am less fat than I actually am. I explain that my muscle accounts for maybe an extra 20-30lbs and that I need to lose about 80lbs. Plus I have co-morbidities. Anyway, I just get sick and tired of hearing the same old saw about not needing a band and that I should just lose weight naturally by making better food choices. What really makes my blood boil is when thin people keep insisting that the only reason anyone is over weight is because they choose to eat fattening foods and that losing weight is as simple as making better choices. In their minds that's all there is to it, eating is a choice just like picking out which shirt to wear - nothing more, nothing less. Why is it so difficult for people to understand that some people have an overwhelming urge to eat that others just don't experience? Why is it so hard to understand that people do not all have the same metabolism? If you look at the facts, it is obvious that these things are true and yet most people prefer to believe that fat people are just weak and lazy. I honestly believe that these beliefs make people feel better about themselves. I just wonder if people realize how infuriating and insulting it is when they minimize the difficulties that we face. Really I have to think that's part of their pleasure. "Let's tell the fat guy that his weight problem is just due to him being weak and lazy and then when he gets pissed, that will be an example of his weak character." And what burns me up even more is when overweight people buy into it and make the same argument as if they are not fat themselves. I guess when a lie is repeated often enough it becomes fact. The fact that most really skinny people eat whatever they want whenever they want is simply ignored.

Would you be denied if you DO NOT lose weight or if you DO lose weight? I would think the purpose of the 6 month diet is to see if you can control your weight without surgery and therefore not need it. I could see the insurance company making this argument. I could be wrong though.

I might need to learn to like flat beer if that's possible. My cousing who is banded told me she has a little soda on occassion though.

Thanks so much. It's always comforting to know there are people who understand what I'm talking about and can offer words of encouragement. I actually eat pretty healthy foods for the most part - just far too much. Once I am banded, I'd imagine I might even be able to loosen up my diet restrictions due to only being able to eat about 5% of what I previously could. I do relish the thought of being able to go out to dinner and just order from the appetizer menu and be full.