CyclicalLoser

Wow thank you all! I'm taking things very, very slow (Still). Most of the time when I eat "normal" (Non liquid) things, I feel nauseous, to the point where I've had to throw up. I'm pretty sure it's because I am eating too fast. The positive side is that I don't have a problem with my mostly liquid diet.
Yesterday, as I waited in line to order a family member an Apple turnover, I was thinking there had to be a "healthier" option. After all, apples are apples and as long as I get the sugar and bad carbs out, it should be an okay treat. In general though, and yes this is ironic, I am the safest person in the world to transport baked goods. I don't like any pies except Apple. I don't like anything else. Not cakes, muffins, brownies, cupcakes, pastries, twinkies, Cookies etc.
But Apple pies lived in fear of my wrath.
Thank you all again. This will be enormously helpful for Thanksgiving and Christmas dinners!

I look at it this way - At least here in the US, doctors are in the crosshairs by every patient they see. They don't know if their patient is a lawyer, or one that knows a great malpractice lawyer. The surgeon tells you things - things you make life altering decisions on - then puts you in a near-death state and redesigns your innards. The poor doctors have it hard, they really do. I know of several doctors that pay unimaginable malpractice insurance every year.
So I think the doctors like to underpromise/overdeliver. I don't think most people would sue them if they said "You'll only be overweight when you hit your final weight" and then almost miraculously you are in the "normal" BMI. Most people would think the doctor is a hero, and recommend them to everybody.
Us car guys call it sand-bagging when we're racing. It's politics and it stinks, but this is the world we live in.
Like other people said, everybody is different. The doctors right now are mad at me because I really don't eat much "real" food. A lot of things give me nausea, but I'm happy as a clam with my sugar free popsicles, clear Protein Drink, and regular Protein Shakes. For right now, I'm completely cool with never eating again, and I hope I stay this way. I know the first 6-18 months are extremely important as weight loss thereafter is hard, so I'm going as fast as I can. The doc told me at 3 months I'm about where a typical patient is at 6 months. Sounds good to me!
Also, as others said, and in my opinion, WLS is to be healthier. Looking better is just a welcomed side-effect. I don't think most people are 100% thrilled after the surgery, skin is only so elastic, but walking a mile, walking up stairs, playing with your kids, cleaning the house...all of that is so much easier. FWIW my blood pressure before surgery was 135-140 over 95 to 100. Now? 105/75. That alone probably put quite a few years back on the table.

Everybody has different levels of addiction, but I smoked for 3 years and was instantly hooked. I got up to 2/3 or a pack a day. I quit long before surgery, and I don't want to say I quit cold turkey, but I didn't use any tools other than my wallet. Essentially if I got the urge, I would go out, buy a pack, smoke one, and then throw them out. Sometimes I would even tear them up in angst. This was very expensive, and it really helped me quit...but...
For me, there were certain behaviors associated with smoking. After I drove to work, I would smoke a cig in my car. At lunch I would do the same, sometimes twice. After driving home, smoke. After dinner, smoke. When I worked on my car, a cig was a "victory" for taking a part off, and another for putting it back on.
I had to adjust things. As soon as I parked my car, I had to practically jump out of it like it was on fire. Sitting there felt stupid and made the urges incredible. Working on cars, well, I work all the way through, and when I'm done, I now have a Vitamin Water and call it a day.
But the real reason is to stop for the health reasons. I'm sure you getting this surgery is at least partially because of the health benefits (For me it was 100% why, but I know some people also do it for looks). So tell yourself if you're willing to go through the surgery for health, then you can simply not put a cigarette in your mouth and light it!
If you think you need to "transfer" your addiction, then you could look into something like tea, coffee, expresso, sugar free gum (If your surgeon will allow it), or something else that is healthy.

I look at it this way - At least here in the US, doctors are in the crosshairs by every patient they see. They don't know if their patient is a lawyer, or one that knows a great malpractice lawyer. The surgeon tells you things - things you make life altering decisions on - then puts you in a near-death state and redesigns your innards. The poor doctors have it hard, they really do. I know of several doctors that pay unimaginable malpractice insurance every year.
So I think the doctors like to underpromise/overdeliver. I don't think most people would sue them if they said "You'll only be overweight when you hit your final weight" and then almost miraculously you are in the "normal" BMI. Most people would think the doctor is a hero, and recommend them to everybody.
Us car guys call it sand-bagging when we're racing. It's politics and it stinks, but this is the world we live in.
Like other people said, everybody is different. The doctors right now are mad at me because I really don't eat much "real" food. A lot of things give me nausea, but I'm happy as a clam with my sugar free popsicles, clear Protein Drink, and regular Protein Shakes. For right now, I'm completely cool with never eating again, and I hope I stay this way. I know the first 6-18 months are extremely important as weight loss thereafter is hard, so I'm going as fast as I can. The doc told me at 3 months I'm about where a typical patient is at 6 months. Sounds good to me!
Also, as others said, and in my opinion, WLS is to be healthier. Looking better is just a welcomed side-effect. I don't think most people are 100% thrilled after the surgery, skin is only so elastic, but walking a mile, walking up stairs, playing with your kids, cleaning the house...all of that is so much easier. FWIW my blood pressure before surgery was 135-140 over 95 to 100. Now? 105/75. That alone probably put quite a few years back on the table.

I always bring a 10mm wrench (Everything is metric nowadays) and a guitar pick.
I travel a lot for work, so I pack light. I wore the same clothes in as I wore out (Might sound gross, but I took a shower before I went in, then had them off about 3 hours later when I switched into the floral print smock) sweat pants and a large t-shirt (It was over 100 out when I was released...now? Probably a sweater). I'd bring a book, bible or kindle. Mainly for waiting for your surgery. Once you are out of surgery, you probably won't feel like doing much, plus they want you up/around. I have a bad back, and I actually slept in a chair/recliner the 2nd night. The nurses, purse practitioners, physician's assistants were all very willing to help. They fetched me heat packs, and gave me muscle relaxers in the IV when I told them my back pain was worse than the surgery. Honestly, now that I think about it, I wished I would have brought a cane...not for walking with the IV attached, but when walking out of the hospital into the car.
Things are happening the entire time you're there, they won't let you sit still for more than a few hours, between the IV machine beeping, the blood tests and blood thinner injections and so on.
Actually, I just thought of something I really wished I would have brought...a stack of starbucks gift cards. Saying "thank you" to the staff member helping you out is one thing, but talk is cheap; buying them a cup of coffee says you mean it.

I always bring a 10mm wrench (Everything is metric nowadays) and a guitar pick.
I travel a lot for work, so I pack light. I wore the same clothes in as I wore out (Might sound gross, but I took a shower before I went in, then had them off about 3 hours later when I switched into the floral print smock) sweat pants and a large t-shirt (It was over 100 out when I was released...now? Probably a sweater). I'd bring a book, bible or kindle. Mainly for waiting for your surgery. Once you are out of surgery, you probably won't feel like doing much, plus they want you up/around. I have a bad back, and I actually slept in a chair/recliner the 2nd night. The nurses, purse practitioners, physician's assistants were all very willing to help. They fetched me heat packs, and gave me muscle relaxers in the IV when I told them my back pain was worse than the surgery. Honestly, now that I think about it, I wished I would have brought a cane...not for walking with the IV attached, but when walking out of the hospital into the car.
Things are happening the entire time you're there, they won't let you sit still for more than a few hours, between the IV machine beeping, the blood tests and blood thinner injections and so on.
Actually, I just thought of something I really wished I would have brought...a stack of starbucks gift cards. Saying "thank you" to the staff member helping you out is one thing, but talk is cheap; buying them a cup of coffee says you mean it.

The best defense is a good offense. Better to come from you first than through the rumor mill and have to clear up the untrue gossip. I let a lot of people know why I was going to be gone. In some cases I kind of had to as I wouldn't be working on their stuff for 6 weeks, and then others might have heard about it (Our rumor mill is exceptionally fast) so I freely tell them.
This might sound crass, but I've taken the attitude "I don't care what one thinks of the decision or what one thinks of me". There are exceptions of course (God > Family > Friends) but just about everyone else falls into the "don't care" bucket. I know, I sound very shallow here. When I was younger I would care and so forth, but now I realized it really doesn't matter if frank or sally think it's a bad idea, or jim thinks I'm taking the easy way out. Sooner or later, we'll drop so much weight and our diets will change a lot, and people will put it all together.
I kind of think when people try to keep it a secret, it adds so much drama trying to keep the genie in the bottle. Life's too short to go through all that trouble if you ask me. For fun, I told a nosy supervisor I was having surgery to surgically remove my head from my rear. He replied something like "Excellent, we've been wanting you to get that done for years!". I then told him the truth, and he asked me if it was "hush hush" and I told him nope, go ahead and tell whomever you want, it doesn't bother me.
I'm sure it will go down like this: you'll get nervous first, tell people, they will react however, you will get excited about the surgery, come back after FMLA already losing a lot of weight, people might notice and they will say what they want, and at the end of the day you're going to feel great. (Wow that was a long run-on sentence!)
Aside from that though, on a technical level, I'm almost positive whomever "leaks" the FMLA paperwork has violated HIPAA and confidentiality, "reasonably expected privacy" laws. If you really don't want it to get out, you could tell him/her that you don't want others to know, and that by law the HR department can't disclose to other people. S/he'll get the point.

Congrats for both of ladies. You both have a week on me. I'm progressing very slowly into foods. Not that I'm having problems, but I'm just not that hungry and don't feel like pureeing chicken. My BP has went down quite a bit as well, it's amazing how much this helps. It's not like I am anywhere near what I should be at, yet my BP went from a solid borderline to basically perfect.
I don't know about you ladies, but I definitely don't fit in my old clothes anymore. I'm too cheap to buy anything that I know will be transient, so I just cinch up the belt a bit. Most definitely stairs hurt less. Glad you're both having steady progress!

I am similar in that I am way under on calories at 3 months. I'm perfectly happy with 400-600 calories, and for the most part don't feel bad. My kidneys are a bit angry at me, but the doctor said it's because I'm not drinking enough.
Last week I met with the team, which included the nutritionist, and got his approval literally for cheerios and whole wheat no-added-sugar Cereal. I just tried whole wheat shredded wheat with lots of truvia sweetner, and 50/50 watered down 40-cal almond milk. I waited a while before it was pretty much mush to eat. It went down fine, but didn't taste very good. I tried some double-fiber wheat bread, extra toasted, with a light coating of smart balance light margarine, and a pretty heavy coating of sugar free grape jelly, and it was really good. It does help quite a bit as a "natural" laxative as well.
I'm consuming too much Protein according to my nutritionist, about 100-120g per day. So he's fine with me incorporating some quality (whole wheat) carbs.

I'm just curious, has anyone ever tried taking lactaid + Premier Protein? I gave the doctors 2 options I'd try and they went with the whea isolate instead of the lactaid idea. I have my appointment tomorrow with them so I will nag them again, but I'm curious if it has worked for anyone.

You have probably already heard this, and keep in mind we are collectively trying to be an encouragement for you, but I've been told one needs to concentrate on how your clothes fit more than anything else. I was a carb eater, and probably got less than half my current Protein intake. There is a possibility that I'm actually gaining muscle, which weighs more than fat, Nevertheless, even though I am not progressing rapidly on the scale, I've really had to ratchet the belt in. It's nice to have to keep on pulling my pants up because they are too big, instead of from my spare tire pushing them down
Do you feel better? Are your health indicators better? If they are improving, then that is (IMO) the most important. My blood pressure went down considerably 3 weeks after surgery. That is a win for me right there.

Welcome and even considering this surgery is a great start.
1. I would say my stomach generally makes more noise now than it did before surgery. I'm still in the weight loss phase and my stomach always growled when I was losing, whether it be from the lap band I had, normal pre-band weight loss, or this (RNY).
2. I am not that far out. 2.5 months or so. I'm rarely hungry. There are times where I get a little bit hungry, but they are justified, meaning I haven't ate in a long time, so I eat. Feeling "full" is very different to me. It's not the "thanksgiving/Christmas dinner" kind of stuffed feeling, instead it kind of feels like a little pressure much higher up in my abdomen. It's hard to explain, but that's what it feels like for me. I can also feel food/fluids move around my abdomen more than before. It was strange at first (I didn't like it) but I'm used to it now.
2A. You didn't ask this, but I will say that there are times when I want something I can't have. Today I really wanted pizza. I was exhausted after a day of running around stores, and it was kind of late. Normally I would end that kind of day with a pizza, and it sounded really good. If you have smoked/drank in the past and quit, it is the same sort of thing - for me, I had to get out of the car immediately, because I used to park the car, smoke a cigarette, then go in the store/work/whatever. Now I practically jump out of the car. Last cigarette was in 2005. Last time I had soda was 2010, so I think I'm doing pretty good.

You have probably already heard this, and keep in mind we are collectively trying to be an encouragement for you, but I've been told one needs to concentrate on how your clothes fit more than anything else. I was a carb eater, and probably got less than half my current Protein intake. There is a possibility that I'm actually gaining muscle, which weighs more than fat, Nevertheless, even though I am not progressing rapidly on the scale, I've really had to ratchet the belt in. It's nice to have to keep on pulling my pants up because they are too big, instead of from my spare tire pushing them down
Do you feel better? Are your health indicators better? If they are improving, then that is (IMO) the most important. My blood pressure went down considerably 3 weeks after surgery. That is a win for me right there.

I had a friend with type 1 diabetes and his blood sugar was extremely sensitive. He carried glucose tablets and insulin in a fanny pack with him wherever he was). I believe type 1 is much more difficult to control.
Although you seem to love carbs - and this is coming from a carb-a-holic, but I think most carb lovers will agree, that they tend to make you want to eat more...And it becomes a downward spiral. If you get rid of the carbs and get back on Proteins, your hunger will probably go down a bit.
I had a previous co-worker who lived in Liverpool, and another that lived in Slough.

I did for my lap band, and because they withheld fluids for 24 hours, I actually asked for more - that's how parched I was. I don't like doing them because of the radiation involved, but I did get nuked pre-surgery to see how my lap band was working.

For the bypass revision, the doc was fine knowing that I could drink regular things and not throw up.

If there is a cool thing about the barium swallow is...how do I say this...your body cannot digest it at all...so it goes in white...and comes out white

You have probably already heard this, and keep in mind we are collectively trying to be an encouragement for you, but I've been told one needs to concentrate on how your clothes fit more than anything else. I was a carb eater, and probably got less than half my current Protein intake. There is a possibility that I'm actually gaining muscle, which weighs more than fat, Nevertheless, even though I am not progressing rapidly on the scale, I've really had to ratchet the belt in. It's nice to have to keep on pulling my pants up because they are too big, instead of from my spare tire pushing them down
Do you feel better? Are your health indicators better? If they are improving, then that is (IMO) the most important. My blood pressure went down considerably 3 weeks after surgery. That is a win for me right there.

My surgeon goes by the 15 min before and 30 min after rule. So if I'm thirsty, I drink now and push off eating for 15 minutes. Works for me!

I appreciate your honest reply, I'll do my best to answer your initial questions, as far as how it works for me. Praying is an interesting thing even in the Christianity world. There are those that believe you say them over and over again for doing something wrong, there are others that believe you have to kneel down and pray in a formalistic way. In the bible, there is a "template" if you will, the "Lord's Prayer" (The one that is prayed in times of trouble, vigils, etc...). I believe some people believe you pray that exact prayer. I look at it as a template, however I suppose I am a bit "progressive" as I believe that I can have a pseudo conversation in the car "Hey Jesus, please help me remember what I studied for the test today". Obviously I wouldn't close my eyes.
I don't mean to sound preachy, but I think this helps address why we pray. In the bible we are told that if one has the faith of a mustard seed, it shall be done. It also tells us that if two or more are in agreement, that God will answer your prayer. So we are not only told we should pray, but encouraged to pray.
This next part will probably be hard to wrap your head around. I/we(?) believe that God always answers prayer, sometimes in the affirmative and other times not so much. One preacher has a saying (I'm paraphrasing here) 'Sometimes God says "go", sometimes God says "no" and sometimes God says "slow"'. One could question why we pray at all if God is omnipotent, and can answer any way in which He desires, and this questions ponder even Christians. One group says that because God is all-knowing, that he knew that John will not believe and therefore go to hell, while on the other side, he knew Sally would believe and go to heaven. Another believes that God gives us free-will. I believe in both actually, and when combined with the above reasons, that is why I pray.
Praying is a comfort for us Christians. It gives us "hope" and allows us to "do something for" a person at any time, from any where, and in any language. I quote the above two words because I'm trying to explain this as how I think an atheist would view it. We don't believe it is hope, we believe that it seriously helps. Some people tend to pray last; I'm guilty of that sometimes, but that's not really the way it should be.
I believe that sometimes Christians are guilty for using prayer as an excuse for laziness. We are told to give up everything to God, but I believe that if I am to lose weight (for example) I don't keep eating 10,000 calories a day, while praying for God to help me lose weight. Instead, I believe you pray about it, but do everything within your means to make it happen. I'll give you a real life example. I found a car that I wanted to buy on Craigslist. I prayed that "God's will be done" (So, I'm not saying God, gimme gimme). After that, I called, texted, and emailed. I didn't get a response, so I did it again and again. (Maybe once per day, not like a car stalker). After a few rounds of emails, I was set to go look at the car, however the person agreed to let another person look at the car first. Did I get it? Nope, the other person bought it. I'm okay with it and I rationalize it as God telling me "no" - but, I did everything I could do to make it happen.
I believe you are 100% correct in how we feel the same physiological feelings when it comes to needing/providing prayer (good thoughts) for someone. I'm not sure how much stake an atheist might put into it. I think if they follow "principles" then it might have more substance, while I would imagine other atheists might think it's a nice thought but thinking something doesn't do anything at all. With Christians, we really believe that it helps.
I also agree that a lot of the circumstances have atheistic analogues. For example we believe "Judgement is mine saith the Lord" whereas an atheist might(?) say "Karma gets you in the end".
The afterlife is perhaps the toughest thing that I struggle with. I had a good friend die two years ago from brain cancer. He went through two intensive surgeries (They literally split his brain in half to get to the tumor). The entire time he went through it, he was comforted by the fact that if he died, then he would exist in heaven with his friends and families (Who were also believers). He was as calm as a cucumber to be honest. Many of his friends and family were very upset when it happened, but speaking for myself, I do find comfort in that I believe I will see him once again in heaven. So for Christians, death on earth is really a pause in existence. Some believe it is instantaneous "Gone with the body, present with the Lord" (I believe this) and others believe that the person's soul is not "released" until the rapture. I suppose one could look at it just like anesthesia in that time to the observer is not observed, but instead is nearly instant.
As far as right vs. wrong, I think it is hyped up because of political-correctness, and the speed/power with which modern technology makes possible. If I go out there and say what I feel, then I feel like I am being a bit forceful. If, on the other hand, I am asked a question, and I answer it truthfully, I feel like there should be respect for my answer. Debates are great, but I have a problem with the fundamentals of them. If I say "Pluto is a planet" and use a publication which says so, and the other person rejects that book, then there is nowhere to go with it unless both sides can come to a mutual agreement on a particular text. How do I evangelize? If religion comes up, and I am asked about it, I give my response, and usually I will return the question. If said person answers (dare I say "not what I believe") then usually I will probe further and try to get a dialog going. Sometimes the other person is not interested and there is really no point to discuss anymore (And I believe I am halfway decent at sensing that) while others are genuinely open to talking about it.
I am an introvert, and generally a pretty humble/non-confrontational person. I say that because while I can understand that you might be aggravated, honestly, who cares. I really like the quote of the fictional food-reviewer Anton-Ego ["Ratatouille", 2007, Pixar] "In many ways, the work of a critic is easy. We risk very little, yet enjoy a position over those who offer up their work and their selves to our judgment. We thrive on negative criticism, which is fun to write and to read. But the bitter truth we critics must face, is that in the grand scheme of things, the average piece of junk is probably more meaningful than our criticism designating it so..." (Emphasis mine). I fully expect other people, whether they ask for my opinion, or I freely express it, to discard it as they may - truth be told, most people tend to ignore what I say anyway. To clarify - I am not advocating for one to stop fighting for their right/cause, doing so would be foolish; however, for non issues (As I perceive this thread) and I will repeat myself "Who cares?"
Again, I want to thank you for answering respectfully, (And putting some real thought into your response) and at the end of the day, although we have completely different opinions, I respect your opinion.

To the others in the thread, I do apologize if I am getting off topic here, but I think this is a useful dialog. I didn't include sideeye's response in here so as to not make my reply super long. On that note though, and regarding your second to last point regarding your mother. I think it's important to note that I am not a Catholic, and my understanding is almost entirely what others have told me, with exception to a Catholic wedding I went to. I grew up as a baptist, and now am an evangelical, or non-denominational if you will. I wanted to find a church which preached the Bible "as is" and didn't try to put a spin on it. I haven't found a "perfect" pastor, but the late Dr. J. Vernon McGee literally preached from the start to the end of the Bible instead of "topic based" preaching which is much more common today.
Nevertheless, I think many people lump the term "religion" with "faith" and I would argue that they are two different things. People, by nature, tend to be religious. We start with a core idea/belief and then add-on to it ad nauseam. I think cars are great, so I join a car club. But then I get more focused and join a different car club only with xyz car manufacturers. Then I feel somehow lesser because I don't go to cars and coffee...
I'm sure you know John 3:16, so I won't repeat it here, other than it promises heaven if you have faith in Jesus Christ. I'm also sure you are familiar with the criminals on the cross next to Jesus on Calvary. One of them, having done nothing good in his life (As far as we know) changes his belief into Jesus and is permitted into heaven.
The Bible is full of rules as you noted, and there are people who believe that you must comply with all rules in order to enter heaven. Going by those rules, I am, without a doubt, doomed to hell. I am only a human, I make mistakes all the time, and I'm guilty of breaking the 10 commandments ("Thou shalt not covet" in particular, I love, love, love cars that I simply cannot afford). I think this obsession with rules is what puts genuinely-interested people off, and what leads genuine faith-based Christians into a OCD-like ritual instead of maintaining a relationship with their Savior.
My belief is that you don't earn your way into Heaven, you simply must have real faith about Jesus. So I suppose it would apply to the "Personal loyalty test". I think that my belief (And the Bible, at least if read as written) puts people off even more. How could a "good" person go to hell and a "bad" person who accepts Jesus as their personal savior at the last minute enter into heaven? There are many possible explanations ranging from "Hey it's the rules, like it or leave it" to "What standard is good, what is the measuring stick based on since different regions/cultures define 'good' differently?" I will refrain on the subject not because I don't think it is interesting, but I'm trying to keep the focus on answering the questions that brought you into this thread, and that topic could be dissected for years.
I do ask you to keep this in mind, these are my beliefs and thoughts, and I'm positive that not all of the Christians in here shares my opinions, so I would not take my word as fact.
I think the offer to pray for people in a non-lounge forum should be okay, so long that it is exactly that, and I think you might agree we both have taken it out of the original intent. I suppose the title should have been different, such as "If you want me to pray for you, please post inside" but I think the OP was actually trying not to offend people by warning them. As far as any attacking on either side though, that shouldn't be in this thread either, as the original intent was just to pray for people.
Again, my apologies to everyone else who just came in here for prayer and not to get involved in religious rhetoric. I didn't want sideeye, nor any other atheists who did view the thread to think that we all fit into the same mold

Right after surgery my tastes and smells changed. They are better now, but still off sometimes. I do get the foul smell pretty often, but my breathe and sweat are atrocious! I think it is because of the ketosis, because on one of my past 100-pound losses (Without the band or RNY) my breath smelled the same way.
I don't have one, so I can't say that it works, but have you thought about something lava navage where it rinses out your sinus cavity with saline?
I'm allergic to pretty much everything (Not foods/drugs though), so my sinuses are always up to something. I've just gotten used to it to be honest.

I appreciate your honest reply, I'll do my best to answer your initial questions, as far as how it works for me. Praying is an interesting thing even in the Christianity world. There are those that believe you say them over and over again for doing something wrong, there are others that believe you have to kneel down and pray in a formalistic way. In the bible, there is a "template" if you will, the "Lord's Prayer" (The one that is prayed in times of trouble, vigils, etc...). I believe some people believe you pray that exact prayer. I look at it as a template, however I suppose I am a bit "progressive" as I believe that I can have a pseudo conversation in the car "Hey Jesus, please help me remember what I studied for the test today". Obviously I wouldn't close my eyes.
I don't mean to sound preachy, but I think this helps address why we pray. In the bible we are told that if one has the faith of a mustard seed, it shall be done. It also tells us that if two or more are in agreement, that God will answer your prayer. So we are not only told we should pray, but encouraged to pray.
This next part will probably be hard to wrap your head around. I/we(?) believe that God always answers prayer, sometimes in the affirmative and other times not so much. One preacher has a saying (I'm paraphrasing here) 'Sometimes God says "go", sometimes God says "no" and sometimes God says "slow"'. One could question why we pray at all if God is omnipotent, and can answer any way in which He desires, and this questions ponder even Christians. One group says that because God is all-knowing, that he knew that John will not believe and therefore go to hell, while on the other side, he knew Sally would believe and go to heaven. Another believes that God gives us free-will. I believe in both actually, and when combined with the above reasons, that is why I pray.
Praying is a comfort for us Christians. It gives us "hope" and allows us to "do something for" a person at any time, from any where, and in any language. I quote the above two words because I'm trying to explain this as how I think an atheist would view it. We don't believe it is hope, we believe that it seriously helps. Some people tend to pray last; I'm guilty of that sometimes, but that's not really the way it should be.
I believe that sometimes Christians are guilty for using prayer as an excuse for laziness. We are told to give up everything to God, but I believe that if I am to lose weight (for example) I don't keep eating 10,000 calories a day, while praying for God to help me lose weight. Instead, I believe you pray about it, but do everything within your means to make it happen. I'll give you a real life example. I found a car that I wanted to buy on Craigslist. I prayed that "God's will be done" (So, I'm not saying God, gimme gimme). After that, I called, texted, and emailed. I didn't get a response, so I did it again and again. (Maybe once per day, not like a car stalker). After a few rounds of emails, I was set to go look at the car, however the person agreed to let another person look at the car first. Did I get it? Nope, the other person bought it. I'm okay with it and I rationalize it as God telling me "no" - but, I did everything I could do to make it happen.
I believe you are 100% correct in how we feel the same physiological feelings when it comes to needing/providing prayer (good thoughts) for someone. I'm not sure how much stake an atheist might put into it. I think if they follow "principles" then it might have more substance, while I would imagine other atheists might think it's a nice thought but thinking something doesn't do anything at all. With Christians, we really believe that it helps.
I also agree that a lot of the circumstances have atheistic analogues. For example we believe "Judgement is mine saith the Lord" whereas an atheist might(?) say "Karma gets you in the end".
The afterlife is perhaps the toughest thing that I struggle with. I had a good friend die two years ago from brain cancer. He went through two intensive surgeries (They literally split his brain in half to get to the tumor). The entire time he went through it, he was comforted by the fact that if he died, then he would exist in heaven with his friends and families (Who were also believers). He was as calm as a cucumber to be honest. Many of his friends and family were very upset when it happened, but speaking for myself, I do find comfort in that I believe I will see him once again in heaven. So for Christians, death on earth is really a pause in existence. Some believe it is instantaneous "Gone with the body, present with the Lord" (I believe this) and others believe that the person's soul is not "released" until the rapture. I suppose one could look at it just like anesthesia in that time to the observer is not observed, but instead is nearly instant.
As far as right vs. wrong, I think it is hyped up because of political-correctness, and the speed/power with which modern technology makes possible. If I go out there and say what I feel, then I feel like I am being a bit forceful. If, on the other hand, I am asked a question, and I answer it truthfully, I feel like there should be respect for my answer. Debates are great, but I have a problem with the fundamentals of them. If I say "Pluto is a planet" and use a publication which says so, and the other person rejects that book, then there is nowhere to go with it unless both sides can come to a mutual agreement on a particular text. How do I evangelize? If religion comes up, and I am asked about it, I give my response, and usually I will return the question. If said person answers (dare I say "not what I believe") then usually I will probe further and try to get a dialog going. Sometimes the other person is not interested and there is really no point to discuss anymore (And I believe I am halfway decent at sensing that) while others are genuinely open to talking about it.
I am an introvert, and generally a pretty humble/non-confrontational person. I say that because while I can understand that you might be aggravated, honestly, who cares. I really like the quote of the fictional food-reviewer Anton-Ego ["Ratatouille", 2007, Pixar] "In many ways, the work of a critic is easy. We risk very little, yet enjoy a position over those who offer up their work and their selves to our judgment. We thrive on negative criticism, which is fun to write and to read. But the bitter truth we critics must face, is that in the grand scheme of things, the average piece of junk is probably more meaningful than our criticism designating it so..." (Emphasis mine). I fully expect other people, whether they ask for my opinion, or I freely express it, to discard it as they may - truth be told, most people tend to ignore what I say anyway. To clarify - I am not advocating for one to stop fighting for their right/cause, doing so would be foolish; however, for non issues (As I perceive this thread) and I will repeat myself "Who cares?"
Again, I want to thank you for answering respectfully, (And putting some real thought into your response) and at the end of the day, although we have completely different opinions, I respect your opinion.

I think I dumped tonight. I was stupid, and deserve it (And criticism) but I had a large serving of carb smart ice cream. Probably a cup to be honest. I noticed when I ate this ice cream before it kind of gave me gas, and overall I could feel it move throughout my system quite well. Ate it, and didn't feel so good afterward. About 30-60 minutes later, I felt very nautious and uncomfortable whether sitting up or reclined. I went #2 and it was loose, but not diarrhea. I felt like I was going to pass out a little bit, but chalked it up as my normal anxiety.
Still not feeling well and having an occasional "verp" I tried unsuccessfully to vomit. As I layed back in misery, I noticed that all I wanted to do was go to sleep. I also noticed my pulse rate was up. I don't think I got any palpitations, but I get them all the time from my anxiety, so I tend to discard them. I did feel cold, so I put a blanket on. I kind of dozed off/light sleep for an hour or so, and then the diarrhea hit. Not explosive like others said, but yes it was what it was.
About an hour after that, I started to feel normal again, although several hours later I still have gas pretty bad.
Does that sound like a dump? I kind of hope it was, because although it was unpleasant, it wasn't as bad as the stories I've heard where people were flat-out on the floor thinking they were having a heart attack.

I had a few dumping episodes of varying degrees early on, however now, being close to 6 months out... I'm finding that I can eat a bunch of things I really wish I couldn't without any dumping when you'd think there would be. Some folks call me lucky, I don't think I'm lucky. Now I have to worry about the will power to not stuff.... like my youngest brought home a new flavor Oreo cookie. I had 1 serving (2 cookies) and expected to have to pay for it... yet, nothing happened. Then I ate 4 of them the next day expecting SOME form of negative feedback... still nothing.

Dumping sucks, but it's that sucky feeling that I was hoping for to help assist with the whole cognitive reassignment associating those foods as "bad" and it's just not happening any more.

Just wanted to provide my experience with dumping and let you all know that, it doesn't always stay the same, what I dumped on early on, I no longer dump on.

I am a Christian and at the same time I understand your frustration. Let's be honest here, you attract bees with honey, not vinegar. If I walked up to you and asked you if you believed in God, and you told me no, if my next response was to tell you that you were going to hell, then that would not be tactful and I don't think that is the way to evangelize. I can also understand that the scripture we believe in may sound weird as you put it, just as if I started explaining how computer networks work to the lay person (Lots of terms are very strange and there is literally something called "promiscuous mode" that means something completely different than anyone might think).
The logic that I don't understand, is why non-believers would come into this thread? I could understand it if said person were genuinely interested, but it seems as if you already have your mind up. Everyone here is not a captive audience, this is not required for you to get the surgery, your drivers license, or your social security card. If you are uninterested in the topic, then you skip it and go on to the next one. If you created a thread saying "Atheists, come in here" or something of that nature, I wouldn't bother going in the thread out of respect to you/your fellow atheists.
I'll admit, I don't understand much about the atheist belief system other than it means one does not believe in God. I have atheist family members and I asked them what they thought happened when one died, and she told me that dead is dead, so you live your life to it's fullest when you're alive. But she also follows buddhist principles. She does say "Think good thoughts for me" when she is about to (or is currently) dealing with something stressful. Personally, it seems like a 1:1 for "Please pray for me" and maybe that is the PC atheist verbiage. My point is, if there is something, some set of beliefs, some common thoughts (Even if it is the "I can't stand those evangelicals") then I would go as far as to recommend creating your own post. I'll give you my word, I won't go in it and bother you.
I will not apologize for my beliefs, but I do apologize if other Christians tried to "shame" you into believing in Jesus, they should know that even if said atheist utters a prayer out loud (To stop getting harassed), it doesn't mean anything because only God knows what's in one's heart.
You probably won't believe me, but one of my best friends is an atheist, so yes, it's very easy for atheists and Christians to get along, my buddy and I just don't talk about beliefs and instead talk about other stuff. We've been friends for 16 years...

I appreciate your honest reply, I'll do my best to answer your initial questions, as far as how it works for me. Praying is an interesting thing even in the Christianity world. There are those that believe you say them over and over again for doing something wrong, there are others that believe you have to kneel down and pray in a formalistic way. In the bible, there is a "template" if you will, the "Lord's Prayer" (The one that is prayed in times of trouble, vigils, etc...). I believe some people believe you pray that exact prayer. I look at it as a template, however I suppose I am a bit "progressive" as I believe that I can have a pseudo conversation in the car "Hey Jesus, please help me remember what I studied for the test today". Obviously I wouldn't close my eyes.
I don't mean to sound preachy, but I think this helps address why we pray. In the bible we are told that if one has the faith of a mustard seed, it shall be done. It also tells us that if two or more are in agreement, that God will answer your prayer. So we are not only told we should pray, but encouraged to pray.
This next part will probably be hard to wrap your head around. I/we(?) believe that God always answers prayer, sometimes in the affirmative and other times not so much. One preacher has a saying (I'm paraphrasing here) 'Sometimes God says "go", sometimes God says "no" and sometimes God says "slow"'. One could question why we pray at all if God is omnipotent, and can answer any way in which He desires, and this questions ponder even Christians. One group says that because God is all-knowing, that he knew that John will not believe and therefore go to hell, while on the other side, he knew Sally would believe and go to heaven. Another believes that God gives us free-will. I believe in both actually, and when combined with the above reasons, that is why I pray.
Praying is a comfort for us Christians. It gives us "hope" and allows us to "do something for" a person at any time, from any where, and in any language. I quote the above two words because I'm trying to explain this as how I think an atheist would view it. We don't believe it is hope, we believe that it seriously helps. Some people tend to pray last; I'm guilty of that sometimes, but that's not really the way it should be.
I believe that sometimes Christians are guilty for using prayer as an excuse for laziness. We are told to give up everything to God, but I believe that if I am to lose weight (for example) I don't keep eating 10,000 calories a day, while praying for God to help me lose weight. Instead, I believe you pray about it, but do everything within your means to make it happen. I'll give you a real life example. I found a car that I wanted to buy on Craigslist. I prayed that "God's will be done" (So, I'm not saying God, gimme gimme). After that, I called, texted, and emailed. I didn't get a response, so I did it again and again. (Maybe once per day, not like a car stalker). After a few rounds of emails, I was set to go look at the car, however the person agreed to let another person look at the car first. Did I get it? Nope, the other person bought it. I'm okay with it and I rationalize it as God telling me "no" - but, I did everything I could do to make it happen.
I believe you are 100% correct in how we feel the same physiological feelings when it comes to needing/providing prayer (good thoughts) for someone. I'm not sure how much stake an atheist might put into it. I think if they follow "principles" then it might have more substance, while I would imagine other atheists might think it's a nice thought but thinking something doesn't do anything at all. With Christians, we really believe that it helps.
I also agree that a lot of the circumstances have atheistic analogues. For example we believe "Judgement is mine saith the Lord" whereas an atheist might(?) say "Karma gets you in the end".
The afterlife is perhaps the toughest thing that I struggle with. I had a good friend die two years ago from brain cancer. He went through two intensive surgeries (They literally split his brain in half to get to the tumor). The entire time he went through it, he was comforted by the fact that if he died, then he would exist in heaven with his friends and families (Who were also believers). He was as calm as a cucumber to be honest. Many of his friends and family were very upset when it happened, but speaking for myself, I do find comfort in that I believe I will see him once again in heaven. So for Christians, death on earth is really a pause in existence. Some believe it is instantaneous "Gone with the body, present with the Lord" (I believe this) and others believe that the person's soul is not "released" until the rapture. I suppose one could look at it just like anesthesia in that time to the observer is not observed, but instead is nearly instant.
As far as right vs. wrong, I think it is hyped up because of political-correctness, and the speed/power with which modern technology makes possible. If I go out there and say what I feel, then I feel like I am being a bit forceful. If, on the other hand, I am asked a question, and I answer it truthfully, I feel like there should be respect for my answer. Debates are great, but I have a problem with the fundamentals of them. If I say "Pluto is a planet" and use a publication which says so, and the other person rejects that book, then there is nowhere to go with it unless both sides can come to a mutual agreement on a particular text. How do I evangelize? If religion comes up, and I am asked about it, I give my response, and usually I will return the question. If said person answers (dare I say "not what I believe") then usually I will probe further and try to get a dialog going. Sometimes the other person is not interested and there is really no point to discuss anymore (And I believe I am halfway decent at sensing that) while others are genuinely open to talking about it.
I am an introvert, and generally a pretty humble/non-confrontational person. I say that because while I can understand that you might be aggravated, honestly, who cares. I really like the quote of the fictional food-reviewer Anton-Ego ["Ratatouille", 2007, Pixar] "In many ways, the work of a critic is easy. We risk very little, yet enjoy a position over those who offer up their work and their selves to our judgment. We thrive on negative criticism, which is fun to write and to read. But the bitter truth we critics must face, is that in the grand scheme of things, the average piece of junk is probably more meaningful than our criticism designating it so..." (Emphasis mine). I fully expect other people, whether they ask for my opinion, or I freely express it, to discard it as they may - truth be told, most people tend to ignore what I say anyway. To clarify - I am not advocating for one to stop fighting for their right/cause, doing so would be foolish; however, for non issues (As I perceive this thread) and I will repeat myself "Who cares?"
Again, I want to thank you for answering respectfully, (And putting some real thought into your response) and at the end of the day, although we have completely different opinions, I respect your opinion.