Little Green

Oh also for the record, those Quest chips taste like cardboard to me! Try nuts or Jerky or another whole food choice!

And I applaud AshAsh. I think it’s important to speak up when we find advise we feel is questionable/dangerous.

I'd be careful giving people this kind of advice. Diabetes, especially the type 1 that I have, is a serious beast to manage and unless you are a Endocrinologist, I'd steer clear advising people of when to eat, and when not to eat. It can be life threatening for blood sugars to drop too low from a long fast between "meals". I've lost 95lbs since Jan 1st and I am a diabetic. I think I'm doing something OK, even though I'm not burning body fat during more hours a day than an non diabetic.

This actually depends on the sweetener, and overall the research on this topic is pretty thin.

Because it is.
You cut out most of your stomach and you're eating starvation level calories.
Don't listen to the "head hunger" BS...when you're eating starvation levels of calories...you're hungry. Real hunger. Sally Struthers starving children in Africa hungry. Hungry. You're hungry because you physically can't and shouldn't yet eat the amount of calories your body requires.
In a few weeks when your stomach can handle more food...you will still be facing the same choices you always have. Ghrelin be damned. You will still be on a diet that will require thought, attention, and will power.
The good news....is that it gets better. Right after surgery, I could have eaten my leg off I was so hungry. After I was eating 1000-1200 calories around week three...I no longer felt like I was starving to death. I was much more comfortable, satisfied with much less, and found it pretty easy to stick to my calorie goals. Almost six months out....1200 calories a day still feels pretty satisfying. So that's an awesome change for the better.
Now..back to your statement "this feels like a starvation diet and nothing more at this point."
There are two ways to lose weight. Reduce input calories (Starve)....or.....Increase output calories (Exercise your arse off)
The surgery isn't magic. If changes your tummy, not your head. You will still have to work hard and diet. It's not a magic fix.
You will still be tempted. You will still crave old favorites. You will still get hungry. As time goes on and your tummy is healed and holds a little more...you will have to learn to resist temptation just like before.
The big advantage of this surgery....is that if you screw up and lose your mind and eat without thinking it through......you're more likely to screw up by 1000 calories, instead of 5000 calories in a day. It buys you some time to really look at your behavior so you can address it. It gives you some relief from the massive portions you'd worked up to needing to feel full. And rapid results will hopefully give you incentive to finally commit to better habits. That's the goal...changing how you mentally cope with food.
That's the reality. Work and diet. For the rest of your life. I'm sorry you were sold a steaming pile of BS. You're not alone.
But again...the good news...is that what the sleeve realistically does for you is a leg up on any previous diet efforts. You've got a real chance to change your habits. A LOT of people have tremendous success with the sleeve. Most folks will lose 60-70% of their excess body weight....which is a tremendous accomplishment and standard dieting efforts don't come close to those results.
Hang in there. It does get better.

@josephsmom
eeeeek - 8 days and you are already thinking sleeve won't work for you!! It's a common phrase that "we are all different". Amount of weight we loose, how much and how fast. directions we get from our NUT/doc.
Many OP say they have no/little hunger post op X amount of weeks, months. Even more than a year.
Others, like you, remain hungry despite WLS. You are probably on all liquids. That's not filling!! Once you start mushy, soft, solid foods - your tummy will/should be satisfied. "It" does get better!!! -
good luck bud
kathy

Compassion and balance... you are speaking my love language!!! Thank you for sharing.

You're younger than me (by 8 years), but weight/height wise, you're about the same size I was when I had surgery in February -- I was 413 pounds and am 5'2.5". You can do it!

I wasn't allowed to do any hair removal from the neck down for seven days prior to surgery so make sure it's Kosher with your surgeon!

Omg! After a week and a half stall I lost 7 pounds since yesterday! Nuts!
Sw:215
Cw: 185.5
Sleeve 4/26
30 lbs in one month...

Agreed. My team currently has me on a low carb diet as prep for the surgery (they don't do a liquid diet two weeks before, but instead opt for a more spread out way of shrinking the liver). They were also very clear that it is ONLY used for surgery prep as they have seen patients develop orthorexia after surgery. They emphasize ALL food groups need to be included in a post-surgery healthy lifestyle plan.

Teaching nutrition and sustainable weight control is great, and I really hope that they are doing that - not just the "diet of the day". Compliance is a factor as well, and that is, I believe, one of the issues that this study can point to - those that are non-compliant with the pre-op program will likely have compliance problems post-op.
This can be a good tool in identifying potential problems. Compliance is an issue, and can can point to the need for either additional psych or nutritional therapy or counseling. depending upon where the compliance problem is. If the diet is overly restrictive, that's a problem, but a good RD should be able to tailor a diet around a patient's preferences and aversions. This is not to say that they should allow a 1200 calorie Twinkie diet, but there are a lot of healthy ways to craft a low calorie diet - a Mediterranean diet, as good as it may be, won't work with our family, for instance, due to its' inherent fishiness, but that's ok because there are other approaches that work well, too.
It can also point to metabolic problems - as others have noted, some do better on a 1200 calorie diets than others. Some, particularly shorter women who inherently have less muscle mass to drive their metabolism, will ultimately be maintaining at 1200 calories (and sometimes less) which can make sustainable maintenance a problem for many - they can't keep it that low and the weight creeps back up again. This factor can help drive a decision as to which procedure may be most appropriate for a particular patient - the DS, for instance, is a stronger metabolic tool and typically has better regain resistance than the VSG or RNY, so is often a better choice for those with significant metabolic problems or a long history of yo-yo dieting. There isn't a one-size-fits-all solution.
On the flip side, over the years that I have been involved in this, I haven't seen much evidence that pre-op diets have much of an influence over long term success in weight control (as in 5-10 years out and beyond.) Many programs include pre-op diets of some kind, while many others don't, and many patients will struggle with regain problems after a couple or years or so, and observationally at least, it is real hard to pre-op dieting or lack thereof as being a factor. I am familiar with several programs that don't do any such dieting yet they have very good long term results. It would be real hard to craft a study to evaluate this while isolating the multitude of confounders,
In short, there is a lot of benefit to good nutritional counseling and education as part of a good WLS program, and helping patients learn new and better lifestyle habits, but I remain skeptical of the value of imposed pre-op dieting in regard to long term success.

Correlation is not causation. Random assignment is necessary in experimental design to determine cause.

Hopefully they will continue to research whether pre op weight loss does improve outcomes.

I didn’t have a pre op diet. I lost more than 100% of my weight and have kept it off. I know others with pre op success have as well.

I'm not so sure that they are drawing a valid conclusion from their study (or at least the headline isn't.) By giving their population a common diet (1200 calories, etc.) and dividing them into those who lost more than 8%EW and those who lost less than 8%, they are effectively grouping their patients into those who lose weight more or less easily (implicitly by differing metabolic rates), and it doesn't seem like a profound conclusion that those who lose more easily pre-op will lose more easily post-op. Further evidence of this is that their male patients did better than their female patients, which also isn't overly profound as men typically have higher metabolic rates than women, so they do tend to lose more on a given diet plan.
The implied headline conclusion that dieting and losing weight pre-op leads to better post-op loss really doesn't follow. For that, you need to look at two randomly chosen groups, one of which follows some prescribed diet program and the other that does nothing special, and then look at the post-op results. Another question not answered is whether the imposed diet provides any long term benefit toward maintaining a healthy weight once the weight is lost
I'm not saying that there are not benefits to getting one's head together and establishing good habits ahead of time, but that imposing yet another diet on people who have an established pattern of failing at diets is of questionable value.
I had to do the common six month insurance program, but the focus was on developing good dietary and lifestyle habits rather than any particular weight loss goals, and the loss followed with the improved habits - which flowed through the post-op period and into the long term maintenance period. Learning long term weight control is much more valuable than a dubious improvement in short term loss rate.

Posting my most recent because I worked hard for the muscle chicken legs. @BigViffer

I talk to my mom and my husband and took some pain meds and I'm feeling much better. I am going home without the cats on Saturday, and then my husband will drive me back up next Friday for the 2-week appointment and we'll stay a night or two then my parents will help us move the cats back in.
I'm going to text my therapist tomorrow for an appointment next week (yay for calling an Uber to take me there & back) and I might see if I can get my antidepressant in a liquid formulation.
With this plan in place I'm going to focus on the positives, keep my eyes on the prize, and focus on my health and recovery. I'm getting stronger every day, I have no issues with vomiting, nausea, or difficulty getting liquids down, I have a great support team, the pain meds help me feel better, I'm sleeping well, lots to be thankful for.

According to my former Bariatric Surgeon I am 180 pounds too heavy for my height. Sweet Mother Magnolia can you imagine the size of the industrial vacuum🗿 it would take for liposuction on me? It does boggle the mind, doesn't it?😝

Wonder if this would work with creditors too?

Doctors are not Burger King. You can't order it "your way"....cause you didn't go to medical school and your butt isn't on the line if an unstudied modification fails and horribly injures you.

Ok Fluff I think I can safely say I've read every page of your thread now! It was so funny (sorry) watching you go through those first few weeks of experimentation post-op! I'm going to be taking pretty much the opposite path in terms of nutrition and philosophy but I'm so thrilled to have you as a guide along the way! I "sparkleheart" you, my friend!

Ok Fluff I think I can safely say I've read every page of your thread now! It was so funny (sorry) watching you go through those first few weeks of experimentation post-op! I'm going to be taking pretty much the opposite path in terms of nutrition and philosophy but I'm so thrilled to have you as a guide along the way! I "sparkleheart" you, my friend!

This is why basing your life around your diet (instead of your diet around your life) is a very bad idea.
It can go too far. It can cause harm. You can trade one eating disorder for another.
Don't let your diet become your life. You're more than food and fitness.
Trying your best, celebrating every victory, and working hard toward a balanced healthy lifestyle are terrific things.
Becoming fixated on diet, making it your whole identity....not so much.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3596455/
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news/publications/psychiatry_newsletter/hopkins_brainwise___winter_2015/bariatric_surgery_and_eating_disorders
Turn obsession into compassion.
Turn extremism into balance.
Live and let live.
You'll live longer.

Thanks guy its much better today

Ok Fluff I think I can safely say I've read every page of your thread now! It was so funny (sorry) watching you go through those first few weeks of experimentation post-op! I'm going to be taking pretty much the opposite path in terms of nutrition and philosophy but I'm so thrilled to have you as a guide along the way! I "sparkleheart" you, my friend!

It's science:

A "stall" a few weeks after surgery is not uncommon, and here's why.
Our bodies use glycogen for short term energy storage. Glycogen is not very soluble, but it is stored in our muscles for quick energy -- one pound of glycogen requires 4 lbs. of Water to keep it soluble, and the average glycogen storage capacity is about 2 lbs. So, when a patient is not getting in enough food, the body turns first to stored glycogen, which is easy to break down for energy. Then when 2 lbs. of glycogen is used a patient will also lose 8 lbs. of water that was used to store it -- voila -- the "easy" 10 lbs. that most people lose in the first week of a diet.
However, when the body stays in a caloric deficit state the body starts to realize that this is not a short-term problem. Then the body starts mobilizing fat from adipose tissue and burning fat for energy. But the body also realizes that fat can't be used for short bursts of energy. So, it starts converting some of the fat into glycogen, and rebuilding the glycogen stores. As it puts back the 2 lbs. of glycogen into the muscle, 8 lbs. of water has to be stored with it to keep it soluble. So, even though the patient might still be losing energy content to their body, the weight will not go down or it might even gain for a while as the retention of water dissolves the glycogen that is being reformed and stored.

You will feel much much better when you can go back home where everything is familiar and even more important,yours. I know you ❤ your parents, you're grateful for their hospitality, but ET and Little Green. want to go home!😛