Hammer_Down

Just so we're clear, the word "judgemental" gets thrown around a lot on this forum. You can feel judged by someone, even if they weren't being judgemental and that is your own issue. Not being able to accept the truth.
Judgmental: "I'm a much better person than you, and always will be because I didn't cheat on my pre-op diet. Failures like you don't deserve this wonderful opportunity to change their lives for the better because you're just going to waste it anyway."
Enabling: "I know, I cheated on my pre-op diet too and I was fine so I wouldn't worry about it! It's just a suggested diet anyway and you know what your body needs more than some doctor! You got this girl!"
Bullying: "Why are you so stupid? Morons like you should be taken out of the gene pool, since you obviously took a shallow dive to begin with. If I was there right now I'd seriously whoop you because I can't stand people who come around here looking for sympathy because they are screw ups."
Supportive: "I can appreciate that this is really hard, because I went through it myself 2 years ago. The temptations don't go away, you will probably always struggle some. But it gets easier the longer you make the right choices. I think you really need to consider why you had this surgery if you aren't making 100% efforts to follow your doctor's guidelines."

Unfortunately, the logic of "listening to my body" is not always sound. Most of us "listened to our bodies" and ended up hundreds of pounds overweight. Addiction to any substance, including (or maybe especially) food is when you can't recognize there is a problem with the behaviour. Feeling like it's probably okay because you want to do it. Addiction is a problem where your body tells you there is no problem, when there clearly is.
In my case, my surgeon had me on Clear Liquids only up until day 8. For me, that means Water. Lots of Water. But just water or broth. I don't need artificial sweeteners revving up my sugar cravings because I have eliminated sweets from my diet.
Day 8 is starting full liquids. Anything that is the consistency that could be suked through a straw. So water, Protein shakes and broth.< /p>
I was sleeved 9 days ago, and sausages and eggs will not be on the menu until Dec 12, assuming I have no problems with the intermittent stages and require staying on puréed foods longer.
As far as vomiting goes, avoiding vomiting is part of the reason for transitioning slowly onto solid foods. It goes without saying that vomiting should not be a part of your daily routine or considered normal.
Eating foods that will promote vomiting afterwards sounds an awful lot like a form of bulimia.

Just so we're clear, the word "judgemental" gets thrown around a lot on this forum. You can feel judged by someone, even if they weren't being judgemental and that is your own issue. Not being able to accept the truth.
Judgmental: "I'm a much better person than you, and always will be because I didn't cheat on my pre-op diet. Failures like you don't deserve this wonderful opportunity to change their lives for the better because you're just going to waste it anyway."
Enabling: "I know, I cheated on my pre-op diet too and I was fine so I wouldn't worry about it! It's just a suggested diet anyway and you know what your body needs more than some doctor! You got this girl!"
Bullying: "Why are you so stupid? Morons like you should be taken out of the gene pool, since you obviously took a shallow dive to begin with. If I was there right now I'd seriously whoop you because I can't stand people who come around here looking for sympathy because they are screw ups."
Supportive: "I can appreciate that this is really hard, because I went through it myself 2 years ago. The temptations don't go away, you will probably always struggle some. But it gets easier the longer you make the right choices. I think you really need to consider why you had this surgery if you aren't making 100% efforts to follow your doctor's guidelines."

I think there is a clear distinction between sitting in judgement and enabling behaviour. Adults should be able to criticize behaviour without being accused a bullying or sending someone off the emotional deepend.
I worked with youth in a Cadet program, and most of my 12-18 year olds could handle criticism better than some of the people on this forum. We taught the. No excuses, take the advice and make the correction and move on. No hard feelings.
I consider food to be a bonafide addiction. Withdrawals, denial of the problem, denial of the consequences, inability to accept the finality of quitting, inability to
imagine life without the comfort foods they are so addicted to.
When I see people seeking validation for cheating their "rehab" from food addiction, I mentally replace the Halloween candy, chips, or whatever with alcohol, smack, crack, cocaine, meth, morphine, heroin, cigarettes or whatever.
If someone was attempting to quit one of those addictive and destructive substances after years of abuse and destroying their health, how understanding would you be? "it's ok, a little won't hurt, get back on the wagon tomorrow, we all have setbacks, it happens to everyone, try not to be too hard on yourself, etc etc"
Or maybe a "what the hell are you thinking? Are you crazy? Why would you set yourself back to day 1?"
Just my opinion.

Just so we're clear, the word "judgemental" gets thrown around a lot on this forum. You can feel judged by someone, even if they weren't being judgemental and that is your own issue. Not being able to accept the truth.
Judgmental: "I'm a much better person than you, and always will be because I didn't cheat on my pre-op diet. Failures like you don't deserve this wonderful opportunity to change their lives for the better because you're just going to waste it anyway."
Enabling: "I know, I cheated on my pre-op diet too and I was fine so I wouldn't worry about it! It's just a suggested diet anyway and you know what your body needs more than some doctor! You got this girl!"
Bullying: "Why are you so stupid? Morons like you should be taken out of the gene pool, since you obviously took a shallow dive to begin with. If I was there right now I'd seriously whoop you because I can't stand people who come around here looking for sympathy because they are screw ups."
Supportive: "I can appreciate that this is really hard, because I went through it myself 2 years ago. The temptations don't go away, you will probably always struggle some. But it gets easier the longer you make the right choices. I think you really need to consider why you had this surgery if you aren't making 100% efforts to follow your doctor's guidelines."

@@Hammer_Down Terms like 'bullying' and 'judgmental' are used so often, and again, used in the context of 'you're doing this to me' instead of owning the feeling and saying 'I feel bullied' or 'I feel judged'. Saying 'I cheated, I couldn't help it' instead of 'I decided to eat that pork chop' puts the responsibility for their behavior on someone else, the person who created the 'rule' instead of where it belongs, which is on themselves.
How you frame your response to others is SO important, and there are a lot of people in the WLS community who are still sitting around being victims rather than taking control of their emotions and responses to those emotions. I'm a compassionate, empathetic person, but I draw the line at becoming an enabler.

Just so we're clear, the word "judgemental" gets thrown around a lot on this forum. You can feel judged by someone, even if they weren't being judgemental and that is your own issue. Not being able to accept the truth.
Judgmental: "I'm a much better person than you, and always will be because I didn't cheat on my pre-op diet. Failures like you don't deserve this wonderful opportunity to change their lives for the better because you're just going to waste it anyway."
Enabling: "I know, I cheated on my pre-op diet too and I was fine so I wouldn't worry about it! It's just a suggested diet anyway and you know what your body needs more than some doctor! You got this girl!"
Bullying: "Why are you so stupid? Morons like you should be taken out of the gene pool, since you obviously took a shallow dive to begin with. If I was there right now I'd seriously whoop you because I can't stand people who come around here looking for sympathy because they are screw ups."
Supportive: "I can appreciate that this is really hard, because I went through it myself 2 years ago. The temptations don't go away, you will probably always struggle some. But it gets easier the longer you make the right choices. I think you really need to consider why you had this surgery if you aren't making 100% efforts to follow your doctor's guidelines."

Thanks, I'm a new member to the forum but not new to the game. I mentioned before that not I'm not everyone's cup of tea, but I'm not a nasty or mean spirited person. My friends all know not to ask my opinion if what they really want is validation. I don't want them telling people that I thought it was a good idea to purchase a brand new car when the car they had worked just fine and they're not employed full time. (Just an example, had 2 friends trying to convince me that "projecting success" is more important than being financially solvent, and I do not agree).

I guess I grew up in the same culture. I was once grounded for 2 weeks for lying Ronny nother's face about a phone call. When I left the room, she *69ed that thing immediately and it was game over. I was held to high standard regarding honesty and integrity, and no one at home ever cut me any slack.
A lot of people don't like me because I refuse to butter their behinds. I state my opinions openly and honestly, and if I don't know what I'm talking about I admit it freely.
In return, I hold others to a high standard. I don't ask for advice unless I really want it. If my doctor, lawyer, friend or family fed me a bunch of vague platitudes when I asked for their opinions I would be pissed. If I wasn't ready to hear the truth, I would not ask for it.

I think there is a clear distinction between sitting in judgement and enabling behaviour. Adults should be able to criticize behaviour without being accused a bullying or sending someone off the emotional deepend.
I worked with youth in a Cadet program, and most of my 12-18 year olds could handle criticism better than some of the people on this forum. We taught the. No excuses, take the advice and make the correction and move on. No hard feelings.
I consider food to be a bonafide addiction. Withdrawals, denial of the problem, denial of the consequences, inability to accept the finality of quitting, inability to
imagine life without the comfort foods they are so addicted to.
When I see people seeking validation for cheating their "rehab" from food addiction, I mentally replace the Halloween candy, chips, or whatever with alcohol, smack, crack, cocaine, meth, morphine, heroin, cigarettes or whatever.
If someone was attempting to quit one of those addictive and destructive substances after years of abuse and destroying their health, how understanding would you be? "it's ok, a little won't hurt, get back on the wagon tomorrow, we all have setbacks, it happens to everyone, try not to be too hard on yourself, etc etc"
Or maybe a "what the hell are you thinking? Are you crazy? Why would you set yourself back to day 1?"
Just my opinion.

Just so we're clear, the word "judgemental" gets thrown around a lot on this forum. You can feel judged by someone, even if they weren't being judgemental and that is your own issue. Not being able to accept the truth.
Judgmental: "I'm a much better person than you, and always will be because I didn't cheat on my pre-op diet. Failures like you don't deserve this wonderful opportunity to change their lives for the better because you're just going to waste it anyway."
Enabling: "I know, I cheated on my pre-op diet too and I was fine so I wouldn't worry about it! It's just a suggested diet anyway and you know what your body needs more than some doctor! You got this girl!"
Bullying: "Why are you so stupid? Morons like you should be taken out of the gene pool, since you obviously took a shallow dive to begin with. If I was there right now I'd seriously whoop you because I can't stand people who come around here looking for sympathy because they are screw ups."
Supportive: "I can appreciate that this is really hard, because I went through it myself 2 years ago. The temptations don't go away, you will probably always struggle some. But it gets easier the longer you make the right choices. I think you really need to consider why you had this surgery if you aren't making 100% efforts to follow your doctor's guidelines."

Just so we're clear, the word "judgemental" gets thrown around a lot on this forum. You can feel judged by someone, even if they weren't being judgemental and that is your own issue. Not being able to accept the truth.
Judgmental: "I'm a much better person than you, and always will be because I didn't cheat on my pre-op diet. Failures like you don't deserve this wonderful opportunity to change their lives for the better because you're just going to waste it anyway."
Enabling: "I know, I cheated on my pre-op diet too and I was fine so I wouldn't worry about it! It's just a suggested diet anyway and you know what your body needs more than some doctor! You got this girl!"
Bullying: "Why are you so stupid? Morons like you should be taken out of the gene pool, since you obviously took a shallow dive to begin with. If I was there right now I'd seriously whoop you because I can't stand people who come around here looking for sympathy because they are screw ups."
Supportive: "I can appreciate that this is really hard, because I went through it myself 2 years ago. The temptations don't go away, you will probably always struggle some. But it gets easier the longer you make the right choices. I think you really need to consider why you had this surgery if you aren't making 100% efforts to follow your doctor's guidelines."

Again -- great post!

Just so we're clear, the word "judgemental" gets thrown around a lot on this forum. You can feel judged by someone, even if they weren't being judgemental and that is your own issue. Not being able to accept the truth.
Judgmental: "I'm a much better person than you, and always will be because I didn't cheat on my pre-op diet. Failures like you don't deserve this wonderful opportunity to change their lives for the better because you're just going to waste it anyway."
Enabling: "I know, I cheated on my pre-op diet too and I was fine so I wouldn't worry about it! It's just a suggested diet anyway and you know what your body needs more than some doctor! You got this girl!"
Bullying: "Why are you so stupid? Morons like you should be taken out of the gene pool, since you obviously took a shallow dive to begin with. If I was there right now I'd seriously whoop you because I can't stand people who come around here looking for sympathy because they are screw ups."
Supportive: "I can appreciate that this is really hard, because I went through it myself 2 years ago. The temptations don't go away, you will probably always struggle some. But it gets easier the longer you make the right choices. I think you really need to consider why you had this surgery if you aren't making 100% efforts to follow your doctor's guidelines."

I think there is a clear distinction between sitting in judgement and enabling behaviour. Adults should be able to criticize behaviour without being accused a bullying or sending someone off the emotional deepend.
I worked with youth in a Cadet program, and most of my 12-18 year olds could handle criticism better than some of the people on this forum. We taught the. No excuses, take the advice and make the correction and move on. No hard feelings.
I consider food to be a bonafide addiction. Withdrawals, denial of the problem, denial of the consequences, inability to accept the finality of quitting, inability to
imagine life without the comfort foods they are so addicted to.
When I see people seeking validation for cheating their "rehab" from food addiction, I mentally replace the Halloween candy, chips, or whatever with alcohol, smack, crack, cocaine, meth, morphine, heroin, cigarettes or whatever.
If someone was attempting to quit one of those addictive and destructive substances after years of abuse and destroying their health, how understanding would you be? "it's ok, a little won't hurt, get back on the wagon tomorrow, we all have setbacks, it happens to everyone, try not to be too hard on yourself, etc etc"
Or maybe a "what the hell are you thinking? Are you crazy? Why would you set yourself back to day 1?"
Just my opinion.

I guess I grew up in the same culture. I was once grounded for 2 weeks for lying Ronny nother's face about a phone call. When I left the room, she *69ed that thing immediately and it was game over. I was held to high standard regarding honesty and integrity, and no one at home ever cut me any slack.
A lot of people don't like me because I refuse to butter their behinds. I state my opinions openly and honestly, and if I don't know what I'm talking about I admit it freely.
In return, I hold others to a high standard. I don't ask for advice unless I really want it. If my doctor, lawyer, friend or family fed me a bunch of vague platitudes when I asked for their opinions I would be pissed. If I wasn't ready to hear the truth, I would not ask for it.

I guess I grew up in the same culture. I was once grounded for 2 weeks for lying Ronny nother's face about a phone call. When I left the room, she *69ed that thing immediately and it was game over. I was held to high standard regarding honesty and integrity, and no one at home ever cut me any slack.
A lot of people don't like me because I refuse to butter their behinds. I state my opinions openly and honestly, and if I don't know what I'm talking about I admit it freely.
In return, I hold others to a high standard. I don't ask for advice unless I really want it. If my doctor, lawyer, friend or family fed me a bunch of vague platitudes when I asked for their opinions I would be pissed. If I wasn't ready to hear the truth, I would not ask for it.

I guess I grew up in the same culture. I was once grounded for 2 weeks for lying Ronny nother's face about a phone call. When I left the room, she *69ed that thing immediately and it was game over. I was held to high standard regarding honesty and integrity, and no one at home ever cut me any slack.
A lot of people don't like me because I refuse to butter their behinds. I state my opinions openly and honestly, and if I don't know what I'm talking about I admit it freely.
In return, I hold others to a high standard. I don't ask for advice unless I really want it. If my doctor, lawyer, friend or family fed me a bunch of vague platitudes when I asked for their opinions I would be pissed. If I wasn't ready to hear the truth, I would not ask for it.

I think there is a clear distinction between sitting in judgement and enabling behaviour. Adults should be able to criticize behaviour without being accused a bullying or sending someone off the emotional deepend.
I worked with youth in a Cadet program, and most of my 12-18 year olds could handle criticism better than some of the people on this forum. We taught the. No excuses, take the advice and make the correction and move on. No hard feelings.
I consider food to be a bonafide addiction. Withdrawals, denial of the problem, denial of the consequences, inability to accept the finality of quitting, inability to
imagine life without the comfort foods they are so addicted to.
When I see people seeking validation for cheating their "rehab" from food addiction, I mentally replace the Halloween candy, chips, or whatever with alcohol, smack, crack, cocaine, meth, morphine, heroin, cigarettes or whatever.
If someone was attempting to quit one of those addictive and destructive substances after years of abuse and destroying their health, how understanding would you be? "it's ok, a little won't hurt, get back on the wagon tomorrow, we all have setbacks, it happens to everyone, try not to be too hard on yourself, etc etc"
Or maybe a "what the hell are you thinking? Are you crazy? Why would you set yourself back to day 1?"
Just my opinion.

I think there is a clear distinction between sitting in judgement and enabling behaviour. Adults should be able to criticize behaviour without being accused a bullying or sending someone off the emotional deepend.
I worked with youth in a Cadet program, and most of my 12-18 year olds could handle criticism better than some of the people on this forum. We taught the. No excuses, take the advice and make the correction and move on. No hard feelings.
I consider food to be a bonafide addiction. Withdrawals, denial of the problem, denial of the consequences, inability to accept the finality of quitting, inability to
imagine life without the comfort foods they are so addicted to.
When I see people seeking validation for cheating their "rehab" from food addiction, I mentally replace the Halloween candy, chips, or whatever with alcohol, smack, crack, cocaine, meth, morphine, heroin, cigarettes or whatever.
If someone was attempting to quit one of those addictive and destructive substances after years of abuse and destroying their health, how understanding would you be? "it's ok, a little won't hurt, get back on the wagon tomorrow, we all have setbacks, it happens to everyone, try not to be too hard on yourself, etc etc"
Or maybe a "what the hell are you thinking? Are you crazy? Why would you set yourself back to day 1?"
Just my opinion.

I guess I grew up in the same culture. I was once grounded for 2 weeks for lying Ronny nother's face about a phone call. When I left the room, she *69ed that thing immediately and it was game over. I was held to high standard regarding honesty and integrity, and no one at home ever cut me any slack.
A lot of people don't like me because I refuse to butter their behinds. I state my opinions openly and honestly, and if I don't know what I'm talking about I admit it freely.
In return, I hold others to a high standard. I don't ask for advice unless I really want it. If my doctor, lawyer, friend or family fed me a bunch of vague platitudes when I asked for their opinions I would be pissed. If I wasn't ready to hear the truth, I would not ask for it.

I don't know whether it's true, but I have read that ghrelin, the hunger hormone can stay in your system for up to 30 days after the surgery.
However, i could find no evidence that ghrelin, an amino acid, is fat soluble and thus remains in the system after the stomache is removed. In fact, I can't find anything at all in scientific literature to support that claim that is made on this forum.
Perhaps it is the incision healing that is causing a pain similar to hunger? At only 17 days, my surgeon's plan still has me consuming full liquids only and only making the transition to more substantive foods a few weeks later.

@@Hammer_Down I agree with everything you wrote, and you said it so well. Indeed, why should WLS patients be treated as though they're fragile butterflies, unable to hear that they need to learn to OWN their self-destructive behaviors? You're right in that I'd kick the living shit out of someone for indulging in one little rock of crack, so why indulge someone who eats chicken 3 days post op then declares "I don't have a problem with food"?? The bias goes both ways...if we want obesity treated like a dangerous disease, then the seriousness needs to convey when people talk about 'cheating' and 'indulging' in things that are clearly dangerous to them.

I think there is a clear distinction between sitting in judgement and enabling behaviour. Adults should be able to criticize behaviour without being accused a bullying or sending someone off the emotional deepend.
I worked with youth in a Cadet program, and most of my 12-18 year olds could handle criticism better than some of the people on this forum. We taught the. No excuses, take the advice and make the correction and move on. No hard feelings.
I consider food to be a bonafide addiction. Withdrawals, denial of the problem, denial of the consequences, inability to accept the finality of quitting, inability to
imagine life without the comfort foods they are so addicted to.
When I see people seeking validation for cheating their "rehab" from food addiction, I mentally replace the Halloween candy, chips, or whatever with alcohol, smack, crack, cocaine, meth, morphine, heroin, cigarettes or whatever.
If someone was attempting to quit one of those addictive and destructive substances after years of abuse and destroying their health, how understanding would you be? "it's ok, a little won't hurt, get back on the wagon tomorrow, we all have setbacks, it happens to everyone, try not to be too hard on yourself, etc etc"
Or maybe a "what the hell are you thinking? Are you crazy? Why would you set yourself back to day 1?"
Just my opinion.

I think there is a clear distinction between sitting in judgement and enabling behaviour. Adults should be able to criticize behaviour without being accused a bullying or sending someone off the emotional deepend.
I worked with youth in a Cadet program, and most of my 12-18 year olds could handle criticism better than some of the people on this forum. We taught the. No excuses, take the advice and make the correction and move on. No hard feelings.
I consider food to be a bonafide addiction. Withdrawals, denial of the problem, denial of the consequences, inability to accept the finality of quitting, inability to
imagine life without the comfort foods they are so addicted to.
When I see people seeking validation for cheating their "rehab" from food addiction, I mentally replace the Halloween candy, chips, or whatever with alcohol, smack, crack, cocaine, meth, morphine, heroin, cigarettes or whatever.
If someone was attempting to quit one of those addictive and destructive substances after years of abuse and destroying their health, how understanding would you be? "it's ok, a little won't hurt, get back on the wagon tomorrow, we all have setbacks, it happens to everyone, try not to be too hard on yourself, etc etc"
Or maybe a "what the hell are you thinking? Are you crazy? Why would you set yourself back to day 1?"
Just my opinion.