donali

I dunno... Should I have posted this on the FOOD thread??? lol

Go Bobby; Go Bobby; Go Bobby!!

Pop stars singing opera... or WITH opera singers?!?!?! Now, really, that is just SO wrong... *shakes her head in disbelief*

ROTFLMAO!!! Congrats, Ryan!! LOVE seeing those underoos!!

The RnY is not a FIX, either... It is also just a tool, which loses a lot of its effectiveness after two years...

Trish - There is NO guarantee that you won't have saggy skin just because you lost weight slower - so you might as well take that off your list of "Pros" for the band. However, losing weight slower is safer, since it's less hard on your body and you are less likely to lose muscle - remember, the most important muscle in your body is your heart. My sis had the RnY, and has regained almost all of her weight. The RnY has a "window of opportunity" where the missing part of the intestine gives the most malabsorption of calories. However, once a person hits about the 2 year mark, the intestine compensates and begins absorbing more calories again - unfortunately, the top part of the intestine (which is what is cut away) is responsible for absorbing certain Vitamins, and the intenstine NEVER learns to compensate for that loss. So, you are permanently Vitamin deficient, but you are NOT permanently calorie deficient. IF you do NOT permanently change your lifestyle, you WILL regain your weight with the RnY. Those first two years are "freebies", where pretty much no matter WHAT you do or eat, the weight just melts off. AFTER that - if you continue to eat the "old" way, the weight will come back on just like it did before. With the band there is NO window of opportunity - it is continually effective as long as you maintain your restriction. It IS true, though, that many people who have been banded a long time can no longer handle the same amount of restriction without suffering severe reflux, so the band cannot be made as tight as many would like to receive maximum help - so for them it does become harder than before to maintain, but they STILL receive help from the band. No WLS is perfect - but the lapband is definitely, without a doubt, the very safest WLS available today. And while it's true that many people may not lose down to their goal weight (although many DO), the 3 year out statistics comparing weightloss between the lapband/RnY show them equal. Lots of people have children after the bypass - but never forget that you will be PERMANENTLY vitamin deficient, so you would have to be extra diligent about supplements during your pregnancy to safeguard your child. Extraordinary bandsters is at: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/ExtraordinaryBandsters/ Good luck with your decision! And just a comment on Jonathan's advice about asking a doc who does both - beware, there are many docs out there who are biased one way or the other as well. Most of those WLS surgeons started out doing the RnY, and are slow to accept that the lapband is an equally good (if not better) alternative. Plus, the RnY is a much more pricey surgery, so they earn more doing it... That may sway some of their opinions, as well...

I believe that it is a myth that one could "run out of room" for fills. Many docs will try to discourage their patients from getting fills too often, because the bands will only hold so much, and once the person reaches the "max" they have no where to go. I have never heard of anyone NOT being totally closed off at the band's full fill capacity.

I've read that the hiccoughs can be attributed to the diaphragm being irritated, which is why they seem to happen so often to bandsters right after they eat - the full pouch pushes up against the diaphragm. I'm sure that's not the only explanation for hiccoughs, but it seems to be one of the most logical in regards to a banded person. Many banded people get a single hiccough as their "soft stop" signal.

Wyld - Just roll with the punches. You'll still go through phases where you can't get enough of one thing or another, or where you feel ravenous all day in spite of how much you eat, but these are temporary (albeit frightening) stages. Indulge a little bit in the real thing, then make up the bulk of the difference in imposters, like chocolate Protein shakes, or mock frappacinos (instant coffee w/cocoa, splash of vanilla, non-fat powdered milk, a dash of half-n-half, artificial sweetener to taste, Water and ice blended until slushy and top with the spray on whip cream. You can even add a flavorless Protein powder to that to beef it up protein-wise. You're going to be fine!!

Kim - Sounds like you are having esophogeal spasms. The same thing happened to me for a short while, and then went away. Try drinking some hot liquids right before you start eating to help relax things a little bit, and then make sure your first two bites are extremely small and extremely well chewed. Then wait five minutes or so, and you should be able to eat a normal bandster portion. I don't remember how long this lasted for me, but it did go away, so just be careful and pamper yourself until then.

Also, even if you had a slip, you would still feel restriction from the band being filled - I mean, you would physically feel your stomach being squeezed as the saline was added - not a pleasant sensation. In fact, most people with slippage are OVER restricted. I would be extremely surprised if it is slippage, particularly since they did fluoro and said everything looked okay. They should be able to see slippage under fluoro.

Oh - did you mean three times right in a row? My bad... Never mind. Except what I said is still true... lol

Your lowest weight is going to be in the mornings before you eat anything, after you do your morning bathroom duty. It also helps to be fully awake when you weigh - then you're not such a deadweight on the scales. As your day progresses, your body becomes heavier as you consume food and liquids. Your highest weight will most likely be right before bed. You may also want to remember that the scale is an inadequate measurement of your overall success...

Hi Chris - ShellyJ had this exact same problem - her fills were being trapped in the port and NOT reaching the band - they would put fill in, and take the same amount out, but it was never going into the tubing. I suspect that same thing is happening to you. I suppose you could also have a leak, but I would think it would have to be a pretty big one to not feel at least a little bit of difference before the restriction leaked away. It's also possible that your tubing has become disconnected from the port or the band, although that seems less likely if they're able to draw the Fluid back out. Tell your doc that there is at least one precedent of saline being trapped in the port, and maybe he can try accessing it somewhere else. He may have to resort to some sort of contrast fluid so he can see under fluoro WHERE exactly the fill is going...

Misty - You are likely to find that once you really start chewing (and therefore actually TASTING - lol) the food you eat, there are some things that just don't give the same satisfaction as pre-band. pizza is one of my trigger foods - I still had it ocassionally after banding, but when you have to chew chew chew before you can swallow, and only take small bites... Well, frankly, eating some things became work. And since apparently a lot of the pleasure I got from food was the quantity I could eat in a short amount of time, eating certain things just didn't give me the same sense of pleasure as before. And then some things have a downright nasty taste/texture when they're actually chewed... lol I'm not a big fish fan anyway, but I did like shellfish. But let me tell you - chewing chewing chewing a rubbery clam or shrimp or lobster that maybe doesn't have the freshest freshest taste is a big turn off - but I would never have noticed before and would have eaten them with gusto, as it was more bite/swallow with the taste of tarter sauce or cocktail sauce instead of the taste of the actual food. After you get full a few times on half the amount of food you used to before, you will look at a hamburger or a sub-sandwiche and your head will just say, "NO way am I going to be able to eat all of that." I was never even tempted to try a sub-sandwiche, because I knew how long it would take to eat it with small bites instead of the giant bite/chew just enough not to choke/swallow method I used pre-banding. And when the eating of a particular food is no longer pleasurable, you'll be surprised how uninteresting it is to you any more - even if it used to be one of your favorite things.

Cindy - It's time to start looking at averages, and to really sit and meditate about how the changes you are making today are "for LIFE" - not just for "LIFE" in a long term sense of the word, but for life - in the living sense of the word. If you average out your weightloss over the past 6.5 months, you are waaaay ahead of the curve. AND... Sorry to say, the human body has not read up on math - so the simple equation of weightloss means nothing to it. Your body knows what it is doing - yes, a 5 week plateau is normal. What are you going to do when you are at goal weight, and you are nothing BUT a plateau for the rest of your life???? Are you going to stop eating right and stop exercising?? ARE you?!?! Because if THAT was your plan, you might as well have been dieting all this time. Because guess what? As soon as you stop doing what you're doing to lose/maintain weight, the weight is going to creep back on. You do NOT need a fill unless you are getting hungry sooner than 3-4 hours after eating a decent meal of hard Proteins and vegetables, or the nutritious meals that you are eating are in such quantity as to provide more calories than you need. If you have kicked up your exercise program, I bet you are losing inches even if you are not losing "weight". Remember that muscle weighs more than fat, but takes up less room. And it is possible that if you kicked up your exercise program, your body may need a few more calories to keep losing. But this attitude: is what helps keep MO people fat. Living a healthy lifestyle HAS to be enough in and of itself, regardless of weightloss. If you do not believe that to the very core of your being, then you are missing the whole point of the band being for LIFE - in every sense of the word.

Whoo hooo!!! Congrats, girl!!

So glad you love this site as much as we do!! Look at me - I'm not even banded anymore, and I can't stay away from this board... :cross-eye Probably nothing more than a further symptom of my addictive personality, but I like to think it's the people here.... So glad you're able to keep liquids and mushies down now - you're going to do GREAT!! (((hugs)))

Hi Lisa - My fill doctor also was able to manipulate my port back upside-right to give me my fill. I agree with Tracey that it was a creepy kind of feeling, but my port was SO uncomfortable the way it had flipped that once it was turned back over it was a huge relief. Unfortunately it wouldn't stay that way, so I had port revision surgery simply for pain relief. My port revision was also done through the original port incision site - that in and of itself wasn't such a big deal, but the $$$ it cost me (self-pay) was. I have heard that many of the European docs don't suture the port down at all. I would think that your doc should be able to manipulate it back upright, but if that is not the case, well I guess you have no choice but to have it surgically uprighted. Once you get your fill any weight you might have gained in the meantime will disappear, so don't stress about that.

Print this rant out and give it to him. And if he isn't any wiser afterwards, I will call him myself and set him straight. http://lapbandtalk.com/showthread.php?t=4750 Morbid Obesity is a DISEASE. It has been recognized as a disease since 1985(!!!!) by the National Institutes of Health (NIH). This is going to be a long rant… I mean, post. The longer I thought about doctors who make a patient lose weight before weightloss surgery as “proof” of their commitment to a healthier lifestyle, the angrier I got. I am FURIOUS. I am INCENSED. These surgeons are making their livings “treating” obesity, and THEY DON’T EVEN KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT OBESITY TO CALL IT A DISEASE. THEY DON’T KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT OBESITY TO REALIZE THAT IN 1991, THE NIH CONCLUDED IN ITS CONSENSUS CONFERENCE THAT DIETS, EXERCISE PROGRAMS, APPETITE SUPPRESSANTS AND BEHAVIOR MODIFCATIONS ARE NOT EFFECTIVE THERAPIES. YES, I am YELLING. Because if they DID, they would NEVER tell a patient who desperately needed their help that they must lose weight FIRST – to PROVE they are serious about getting better!!!! And to have this kind of attitude propagated on a weightloss SUPPORT board as acceptable under ANY kind of circumstances is absolutely reprehensible, and a symptom of just how well the prejudice against fat people is accepted. Not only is it tolerated, it is expected as our “just” punishment for being fat. Because after all, we are merely gluttons. The formula is so simple: too many calories in = too much fat. So diet and exercise. Too bad for you that you’re not one of the “normal” people who can regularly consume more calories than they need without getting fat – you are NOT a “normal” person, so you must just go hungry and exercise your butt off. Guess what? The formula is NOT that simple. NO ONE really knows the complete explanation of why some people become MO and some people don’t. But not understanding “why” is NO excuse for discriminating against the MO, or continuing to blame the patient for their disease. If a person could not swim, would it be acceptable for the lifeguard to say, “I could save you, but FIRST you must swim 20 feet to PROVE that you really want to be saved.”? Or better yet, “You can’t swim, so you should never have come into the Water in the first place. Why should I bother saving you? This is your fault.” Except in the extreme cases of denying organ transplants to smokers and alcoholics, I have NEVER heard of denying treatment until the patient starts to get better on their own as an acceptable medical response. (I’m not saying I agree with the transplant thing, just that I have heard that a smoker who doesn’t quit wouldn’t be considered for a lung transplant, and an alcoholic that doesn’t quit wouldn’t be considered for a liver transplant. I don’t even know if that’s true – I’ve just heard it.) Diabetics are not denied medication until they can prove they can get their blood sugar under control with a commitment to eliminating sugars from their diet and exercise. Smokers are not denied the nicotine patch until they can prove that they can quit smoking for four weeks first. A double-amputee is not denied their prosthetics to enable them to walk until they walk two blocks without the prosthetics, to PROVE that they really want to walk again FIRST. The prosthetics, after all, are just TOOLS – not “cures” for amputeeism. People with high cholesterol are not denied medication until they are able to lower their cholesterol first, through diet and exercise. If a depressed person goes to the doctor for treatment, and they meet the protocol, the doctor would NEVER say “Snap out of it first. Then I’ll give you the medication you need to maintain a non-depressed state.” Anorexics are never told "JUST eat!!" Their condition is taken very seriously, and requires medical and psychological intervention. I ask you all, then, WHY IS IT ACCEPTABLE TO REQUIRE A MO PERSON TO LOSE WEIGHT BEFORE TREATMENT?!?!?!? YES, we have to make lifestyle changes – but just like the amputee, we can’t do it without a TOOL. We have a DISEASE. I feel that I have done the emotional work. I have completed a professional counseling program specifically for compulsive overeaters. I’ve been hypnotized. I’ve done every diet known to man, and some that I made up myself. How DARE ANYONE tell me that I am NOT serious about losing weight?!?! I cried on the way into work this morning thinking about this. I am crying now. I will NOT accept punishment for this disease. I will NOT accept blame for this disease. I WILL accept the responsibility of doing something about it, however. But I cannot do it alone – because I am NOT “normal”, and I will ALWAYS need some sort of treatment to HELP me, until they find a cure. And I cannot stand by and let anyone forget that we are NOT here because of some moral failing, some character flaw, some personal weakness. We are here because we have a DISEASE. We need treatment, not judgment. If we were not serious about getting better, we would not be here. NO ONE deserves to feel badly about themselves because they have a disease. NO ONE should be made to jump through hoops to prove they want to recover from their disease. MO is NOT A CHARACTER FLAW. This is NOT my opinion – this is medical FACT. It is up to US to know and understand this, and to eradicate the long-held beliefs that we have allowed to shame us for all of our lives. We must NEVER EVER allow anyone to get away with propagating beliefs that MO is anything but a disease that requires medical treatment. *************** http://216.239.63.104/search?q=cache:OTJxKzuvN8QJ:www.shapeup.org/profcenter/diabesity/PoriesPres.ppt+is+morbid+obesity+a+disease%3F&hl=en "The truth is that Morbid obesity is a disease, not a moral failing." “Obesity is a chronic, lifelong, genetically-related, life-threatening disease with highly significant medical, psychological, social, physical, and economic co-morbidities.” Statement on morbid obesity and its treatment. Obesity Surgery 1997 7:40-41 “In 1991, the National Institutes of Health concluded in its Consensus Conference that diets, exercise programs, appetite suppressants and behavior modifications are not effective therapies.” Report of the Consensus Conference on Surgery of Morbid Obesity, National Institutes of Health, Washington, DC 1991 ************** http://www.rsapc1.com/morbid_obesity_surgery/ "Morbid obesity is the most common form of malnutrition in the United States and in the world today. It is considered after smoking to be the second leading preventable cause of death in the United States. It is a chronic disease which is very complex and has multiple etiologies." "We lose over 300,000 patients a year to morbid obesity and morbid obesity related medical problems." "There are social, psychosocial and economic consequences of morbid obesity that can be devastating. Unfortunately, the prejudice against the obese is very common in our society." "Conservative management of morbid obesity that includes diet, behavioral modifications, exercise programs and the like have been found to be ineffective over the long term. A person who is morbidly obese who attempts conservative management, as mentioned above, either alone or in any combination, is not expected to be successful more than 5% of the time. Over 95% of patients who are morbidly obese and meet the criteria for morbid obesity will regain their weight and often overshoot their previous weight. Surgery for morbid obesity is the only method that has resulted in long-term maintenance of weight loss and the reduction of the comorbid diseases that are associated with morbid obesity. In particular, hypertension, dibetes mellitus, risks for coronary disease, osteoarthritis, gastroesophageal reflux disease and many others. Morbid obesity is a chronic disease which is defined as a disruption of bodily function that develops slowly and persists for an extended period of time and often for life. It is multifactorial and includes genetic predisposition, environmental factors, social economic factors, cultural influences, hormonal influences and digestive abnormalities. In 1985 morbid obesity was recognized as a disease with associated comorbid diseases by the National Institute of Health. In 1991, surgical weight loss stated to be superior to nonsurgical weight loss methods and that only surgical intervention produced acceptable long-term results. In 1993 the National Institute of Health recognized the vertical banded gastroplasty and the gastric bypass procedure to be effective in significant reduction of excess body weight. The National Institute of Health recognizes morbid obesity as being an epidemic that can only be reduced significantly by surgical intervention for both morbid obesity and its associated comorbid problems." **************** http://www.landauercosmeticsurgery.co.uk/obesity/ "OBESITY: A MEDICAL CONDITION People who suffer from obesity are poorly misunderstood by those of the population who are not obese. There is a common attitude that overweight people are stupid and unable to control themselves. People who are obese are often the brunt of cruel jokes and thoughtless humour, even to the point of suffering abusive comments in public places. We now know that the medical condition of morbid obesity is a complex disorder, and not simply due to over-eating. The vast majority of people living in the Western World eat more calories than they need but it is only a small proportion that relentlessly lay down every excess calorie in their fat stores. Most people have a mechanism, by which their body knows when their stores have been refilled, but there is an unfortunate group of people where this mechanism is defective, and when they eat it can be likened to filling up the bath with the overflow blocked off. There are of course no fat people in starvation areas of the world, but this is because these are regions with chronic malnutrition and nobody there has access to even adequate calories. People who are morbidly obese often find it difficult to believe that their problem is a medical disease and not simply due to overeating. MORBID OBESITY IN FAMILIES The disorder of morbid obesity often runs in families. The chance of having morbid obesity is clearly increased if other people in your family have the condition. Studies of identical twins who were separated at birth and brought up separately show that if one twin becomes obese, then the other one is likely to become obese as well."

Wow, Megan - That sounds absolutely awful, and one of a bandster's worse nightmares. Thank goodness you are organized enough to have the numbers you needed at your fingertips, and got yourself help quickly. (((hugs)))

Hi Sue - There is a San Diego bandster group with very nice, wonderful people in it - they meet about once a month on the second Sunday. I know at least one person had her surgery in San Diego, with Brunson, I believe. You should check out that group and post your questions there, even though most had their surgery in Mexico, there is some knowledge about the local docs. http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/SanDiegoBandsters/ Best wishes,

Crystal - I think I am falling in love with you... Ditto, ditto, ditto on every single point you have made. There can be no question that Ann Marie needs professional help, and I say that with the utmost compassion. I think her life is spinning out of control, and I fear that many other people will be hurt along the way. Ann Marie, if you are reading this, please, please, please seek professional help. You are a danger to yourself and those around you. May those that have been hurt and harrassed by your actions find healing and forgiveness, and may you find the strength to seek the professional help you need to become well.

Loving all your thoughts here. I am back to my "dormant" state, no longer frothing at the mouth, the point where I forget about my weight struggle because I'm too busy living my life to spare it much thought. Okay, that wasn't an intentional lie - the weight struggle is always there in my thoughts somewhere, however deeply buried by "real" life, but I AM no longer foaming at the mouth... lol I stick by what I wrote, though. Jack, your comments are well taken that ALL patients, regardless of their challenges, need to be an active participant in their own care. I do wonder, though, if you had been unable to demonstrate understanding regarding your diabetes management, what they would have done. Surely NOT withhold treatment. Probably arrange to have a homecare nurse drop by twice a day to give you your insulin shot. Peace to everyone, and congratulations for taking responsibility for your health and life, and doing everything you can to make it better. (((hugs)))

Hey Sue - You already know I'm crazy too!! I'm not sure what the scientific difference is between a disease and a disorder (obsessive/compulsive disorder), but I do know that both are treatable. Have you ever tried Meridia? It really helped dim that drive to eat for me - whatever that drive is. And I think the fact that MO IS so complex in most people is one of the things that makes it so hard to treat. How do you know that your drive to eat when you're not hungry isn't a physical drive instead of an emotional or just plain crazy one? Just because you're physically full doesn't mean you're sated (obviously). Until the "experts" can sort it all out, I believe we need to throw everything we have at our disposal at this thing - counseling, surgery, medication - whatever works for the individual. We're all so very different, and yet we have so very much in common. If you haven't tried the Meridia before, you may want to give it a shot. It really helped me. I mean, after all, if you're using food to medicate yourself, why not try actual medicine? From one insane gal to another... lol