Cleo's Mom

This is a moving and wonderful post. You are a beautiful and amazingly strong woman. It's very hard to change the patterns we live(d) by all our lives but you must understand how much you are loved and admired by your children...and even your mother. I know she has no awareness of how hurtful and cutting her remarks are. If she knew, she wouldn't say them.
But what's more important is the legacy you are giving to your girls. Rather than continue the cycle, they are learning from you how to be strong, independent women. You are the epitome of a good mother. You are teaching your girls what they need to be happy and successful people.
You deserve all the wonderful things in life. You are worthy of everything and anything you aspire to. I am constantly humbled by the amazing people I've met on this forum and you my friend are one of them.

@@JustWatchMe
Your post touched me. While reading it I think of how many of us who are or were obese beat ourselves up all the time. Some think they don't deserve anything. They settle for jerks in relationships. They don't take care of their health. They don't go out much. They think of themselves as fat, lazy, lacking willpower. It's a vicious cycle.
No matter what size you are - you matter. And you deserve happiness. And you deserve to be rid of the toxic people in your life. That is a very important lesson I learned a long time ago. If people don't treat you the way you deserve to be treated - they're gone. Life is too short to waste energy on them.
Each time you move forward with a life changing event - you will get stronger. And you will feel better. It takes time but it will happen.
You deserve joy in your life - whatever form it takes. Accept it. Joy and happiness are not about a size or weight. You are stronger than that.
Good luck.
I

Here is the original post that was the cause of this thread starting:
Posted March 14, 2015 - 2:39 PM


#1 I have been down lately, and questioning my choice. When I go there, I realize that there is no going back. Stomach is gone, can't come back. Then I am even more depressed. food, food everywhere, and am not allowed to eat it. I think of all the things that I have enjoyed, and wonder if I will ever make the transition to enjoyment elsewhere. I feel like such a "weirdo" not being able to eat a typical, "normal" portion. I get a kids meal and can eat less than half. I keep telling everyone that this won't be forever, but I really don't know if that is true. This week I have "only" lost 2 lbs. I question if it is because I have added "real" food to my diet. Then I know how rediculous this is, since I have only added the average of 300 - 400 calories. Then I wonder if I am in "starvation mode." Does that happen with wls


She says she is depressed over the loss of her stomach, not being able to eat normal portions - in other words - she is having some doubts and feeling depressed about her choice. This is perfectly normal. Many who go through WLS experience this sense of loss and frustration.
She later clarified that it was a Red Robin kids meal of chicken skewers and steamed broccoli but some jumped to conclusions (a new thread she started where she explained again).
But here is what she got in return about the comments made to her post(s):
-She is thin skinned
-Overly affected (by comments)
-Too fragile
-Comments affected her stability
-Such an emotional reaction
-Weak minded
-Mental health not up to par
-Uncontrollable bout of depression (about comments)
-Off kilter
-Can't handle the heat then get out of the kitchen
-Depressed because someone said something mean.
-If the only thing you have ever or ever will love is fast food then, yeah, you made the wrong choice. IS EATING ALL YOU EVER DID? or think about life at McDonald's with a kids meal and pout.
-I suggest you go back to your surgeon and have them immediately reattach your stomach.
-She had surgery just a few weeks ago and you think she should just go ahead and have it - why don't you just drive her McDonald's while you're at it?
Wow! There is nothing in her post that even remotely comes close to the inaccurate, not to mention insensitive comments that were made.
She was not depressed over comments but over the loss of her stomach and the loss of food and fearful she would never eat normal foods again.
But just take a look at the comments she got and didn't deserve. And to make matters worse, those who made them defend them and if someone is insulted by them (she didn't even say that) then of course that's their fault because they're....well see above

@@JustWatchMe
Your post touched me. While reading it I think of how many of us who are or were obese beat ourselves up all the time. Some think they don't deserve anything. They settle for jerks in relationships. They don't take care of their health. They don't go out much. They think of themselves as fat, lazy, lacking willpower. It's a vicious cycle.
No matter what size you are - you matter. And you deserve happiness. And you deserve to be rid of the toxic people in your life. That is a very important lesson I learned a long time ago. If people don't treat you the way you deserve to be treated - they're gone. Life is too short to waste energy on them.
Each time you move forward with a life changing event - you will get stronger. And you will feel better. It takes time but it will happen.
You deserve joy in your life - whatever form it takes. Accept it. Joy and happiness are not about a size or weight. You are stronger than that.
Good luck.
I

I thought that getting WLS was going to be hard. Turns out, it was pretty easy. I had great insurance and got approval and had surgery six months after starting my process.
I thought losing the first 100 pounds was going to be hard. Turns out, with my LapBand, it was pretty easy. My body cooperated with my band and when I ate right, the weight came off.
I thought leaving my emotionally abusive husband was going to be hard. Turns out, once I took control of my food and my body and got out of my food coma, leaving him was pretty easy. Logistically tricky, but with reliance on friends and family and a good lawyer, leaving was only temporarily difficult.
I thought the divorce process would be hard. Turns out, it is stressful and emotional, but the actual tasks put in front of me, although tedious and time consuming, are just tasks. I am blessed with a good job and resources that many women don't have. The slowness of it is harder than the tasks in front of me.
I thought walking for exercise was going to be hard. Turns out, it is the one exercise I love and have not grown tired of. I can walk for miles with ease.
I thought asking for help was going to be hard. Turns out, like exercising a muscle, the more I do it, the easier it gets.
I thought being kind to myself was going to be easy. I was wrong.
Oh, was I wrong.
Oh, I've learned it's okay and necessary to treat myself to little things, like a manicure, or a foot massage, or a movie. But then there's the other things.
And I can't help wondering if these other things have a lot to do with why I overeat and stayed obese for so long.
Like saying no to people. I say no. But then I go into "shoulda woulda coulda" and feel guilty about it.
Like reaching for comfort food or wine once in awhile. And then I start the tape in my head that says I'm bad, I'm lazy, I'm never going to get to my goal weight because I don't deserve to.
Like going out with friends and holding my head up high because I feel pretty for the first time in years. And when a musician in a band notices and makes a sweet comment about the "beautiful women in the room tonight" and points directly at me, I find the next opportunity to gather my things and call it an early evening, because to flirt would be bad, and I don't deserve that kind of attention.
Like getting a strong lawyer who is fighting for my financial rights and future, but crying at night because this divorce would go so much faster if I just didn't fight for the college money for my girls or maintenance for myself; because if I wanted out so bad, shouldn't I just cut my losses and end this?
Like not losing any weight for the last six months even though I have fifty left to goal, and telling myself it will never happen because I've never followed through on a goal weight before and what makes me think this time is any different?
Like standing up to my mom's criticisms in person, but in private wondering if she is right about me -- that I'm making a big mistake doing this or that or the other thing, and remembering how judged I felt my whole childhood and adolescence and wondering if she was right about me all along?
This is what is hard. Calling bulls!# on these thoughts and patterns and habits.
My higher self knows it. But it's so DAMN HARD to stop the negative thought cycle, that shi##y committee in my head.
Attitude is everything. I just turned 54 over the weekend and birthdays make me reflective. I have what may prove to be my best year ever ahead of me. God willing, I may see divorce papers signed in 2015. Maybe. I'm 100 pounds lighter than I was a year ago and healthier than I have been in decades. I may be moving into a new home by the end of the year. There is every reason to be hopeful.
So why does my sick brain still gravitate toward self blame and misery? Why, why don't I believe I deserve happiness?
I may never know why.
I'm a practical person. I believe in results. So what I'm planning to do about this is purely practical. It may or may not have any basis in psychology, but it seems reasonable to me.
I plan to abort those thoughts the second I sense them in my head. Literally catch myself and interrupt it with the opposite thought.
I do deserve joy. I do choose healthy food and I will meet my weight loss goal. That person that said I was beautiful was telling the truth. I choose to believe my older daughter who just told me I am strong and a role model. I believe my younger daughter who just told me I've always got her back. I am deserving of financial security and what is rightfully mine. I am deserving of a slim body and to feel pretty. Accepting attention is not shameful. I make good decisions. I take care of my loved ones and I am a good mother. I am smart and strong and pretty and nobody's fool. I am precious in God's eyes and I will live my best life.
This is the hard part. This is the only hard part. The head is always the hardest part to change.

Yes ! You are not alone ! I was banded in 2007 and did great as well. I revised to sleeve in 2013 and I hate it and Iv gained 20 lbs with it and I'm always hungry and it's truly like I never even had surgery at all of any kind. I never imagined that I would even consider any type if malabsorption procedure but I'm scheduled to revise to a mini bypass in less than 2 weeks and I can't wait to put this small Detour (sleeve) behind me and get back to losing weight again !

I consider myself very lucky. I'd never advise any one to have surgery because I guess you never really know what is going to transpire. For me getting the band was the perfect decision but we are all different. I am so sorry for everything you have gone through. And you, too, Shel. There is still so much we are learning about the vagus nerve and about our bodies in general. Last year a new tendon was discovered in the human knee. What? How many hundreds of years of cadaver anatomy and knee replacements, etc., and they just discovered a new tendon now? It's small but still. Geez. We have a long way to go in many respects. Hopefully science and medicine will provide new options for weight loss but meanwhile I count my lucky stars for my band. So happy with my experience so far, although I'm only a year and a half out. I don't do tight, though, and won't.

I remember well when you were doing very well @@parisshel and I knew you were being compliant with the protocol. I looked to people like you who followed the rules an had no issues. I'm so sorry you are having problems and it's very concerning because you didn't bring this on with abuse of the band. That means any one of us who are doing well at the moment, can find ourselves having problems.
Giving you a virtual hug right now.

@@Band07
Thanks for the information. Good luck to you with your surgery. You sure have been through a lot.

@@Erica Brownlee
I think the suggestions of going for a second opinion are good. However, before you do please get copies of all your tests, especially your operative report. You may be surprised at what you find. Doctors don't tell you everything. The operative report will.

@@JamieLogical
That is a part of the equation many leave out. Your metabolism is affected by how active your are, how old you are, how much you weigh, by how many years of yo-yo dieting you engaged in as well as genetics.

@@Cleo's Mom: Right. Oh, and let me add that I ALWAYS kept my band loose. (You can see my numbers in my signature). I was a firm believer in wanting to have "somewhere to go" when I sensed less satiety. So my complications were not triggered by a too-tight band. I wanted to keep my band for as long as possible, so I never opted for the too-tight/fast weight loss track. I was slow and steady, very regular losses with no pb or vomiting issues.

@@Erica Brownlee
I think the suggestions of going for a second opinion are good. However, before you do please get copies of all your tests, especially your operative report. You may be surprised at what you find. Doctors don't tell you everything. The operative report will.

Reading this thread with interest.
If I had to do it all over again...I don't know what I'd do. I remember my first year with the band...steady losses, felt so good, no complications. I kept saying "Flowers for Algernon?" to my friends because it just seemed too good to be true. You know, hunger dimmed, energy up, liberated from the diet mentality.
But you can't mess with one body part without upsetting the entire system, imho.
After one year, complications set in, most recently heart arrythmia and pace problems. Band-related? I'll never get a doctor to confirm or deny. But I'm sure they are, due to the involvement of the vagus nerve. My first episodes of AFib would begin after a few small bites of food, triggered by the food passing through the band (and the band sitting on the vagus nerve). Now: beta blockers and other meds for life. This is not what I had planned when I opted for WLS.
I did months of research on my WLS and my surgeon. I did not go into this lightly. I consider myself one of the most-informed and compliant patients around. But when one falls on the wrong side of the statistics, the statistics don't matter. It isn't about risk or benefit, because it is really black or white. Unfortunately now I'm on the black side.
Hindsight is always 20/20. I loved my band before it brought on other issues. Now? I wonder if this is going to turn out to be one of the worst decisions of my life. The meds I have to stay on have side effects that affect my quality of life, so much so that I can't even enjoy the weight loss I did have until this all happened.
I would not do another WLS, that's certain. I am now convinced that the body needs to function as a whole, and I have no intention of adding or subtracting anything else to it.

I've been following your posts and I thank you for a new perspective. There are those on all 3 WLS forums who swear by their procedure and are happy as clams.
Your posts is a stark reminder that not all WLS works the same for all people. Just go to the complication forums for each. There are no guarantees.
I have an unfilled band (got in 2008, unfilled in 2009), was considering the sleeve but decided against it for many reasons. I hate my band and hated it from the beginning. It never did one thing for me in terms of weight loss, reaching satiety, but it did cause shoulder pain, pressure & pain and getting stuck.
When you get WLS it is a crap shoot. Will you be the one who says - it was a breeze, little pain, losing weight fast, everything's great? Or the one who says - I have a leak, am in the hospital with abscess, on IV feeding, or I have chronic Constipation or diarrhea or worsening GERD. For those who have amazing results, see 100 or more pounds lost, comorbidities disappear - they are willing to put up with the problems or side effects. Their life has improved more than it has deteriorated.
I am 64, the surgeon says I could lose up to 45 pounds with the sleeve but there would be no NSAIDS for life (I have arthritis and chronic back problems) with possible increased GERD. I don't believe the benefits outweigh the risks in my case.
I, too, would never suggest the band to anyone. I always hated mine. But I also wouldn't give a blanket endorsement to the sleeve. It is still new and remember when everyone was big on the band before we knew then what we know now? Who is to say what the long term case is with the sleeve?
I think your post shows that there are always two sides to WLS and they aren't always both good.

Metabolism, metabolism, metabolism. A deficit of 3500 calories causes you to lose a pound and a surplus of 3500 calories causes you to gain a pound. The thing that makes some people gain/lose at different rates is their basal metabolic rate. There are all sorts of calculators and estimators to determine your metabolism, but unless you have a true metabolic study done, there is no way you can know exactly how many calories you are burning from day to day, and therefor it is impossible for you to determine how much of a deficit or surplus you have.
"3500 calories = 1 pound" is NOT BS.
Having no way to know how many calories you are truly burning each day is what causes the confusion.

Walking Dead
Justified
The Americans
Better Call Saul
Downton Abbey
Hawaii 5-0
On Netflix:
Homeland
House of Cards
Prison Break
The Wire
Breaking Bad

One of the things I have noticed, even more so in the sleeve communities rather than the RNY communities, is that sometimes people don't want to hear about complications. Sometimes I feel so angry, though, that I just want or need to share.
Everyone told me I had a great doctor, and perhaps he was if there were no complications. Who knows.
First as I waited for surgery they got a call that he had a personal problem and would be late, until the afternoon rather than morning. Right then I wanted to go home and reschedule, but the nurse said he was the utmost professional and would surely not come in if he wasn't fully ready to do a surgery. I should have gone with my gut!
First, I woke up in surgery. I realize this isn't the surgeons fault...it is the anesthesiologist, and it can happen. It didn't last long, but the pain was beyond anything I can ever describe. I heard the anesthesiologist, I assume it was, apologizing to the doctor, and then I was back out.
I woke up in recovery and was there for hours and hours, long after it normally "closed." I was in extreme pain and even their best drugs weren't cutting it, and as a result my blood pressure was through the roof. Finally, after five or six hours, and tons of blood pressure meds, I was moved to my room.
I conveyed repeatedly that the pain I had wasn't normal. No one listened, and I felt quite patronized. I was told over and over again that it was just gas. Finally a swallow test showed that my stomach was swollen shut. Doctor kept pushing me to drink, as the smallest trickle would go through. It would take hours to finish an ounce. Then I was sent home! Why!
I kept a log, drank as much as I could, constantly neverendingly trying to sip and walk. I had severe esophageal spasms that were excruciating. I timed them. After a couple days I was back in the hospital. Stomach was worse than before. Severe dehydration and extreme pain. Got drugged out. Was in for another week on IV. Discussions began that the sleeve may have been made so small it wasn't ever going to function and I would need to have my stomach removed. In the interim, we were going to do PICC and TPN for several months.
Finally at home, I looked at all the meds and the nurse trying to train me on how to do the PICC steps, and I just started crying. Let's not forget that I told them in the hospital I was sure I had a UTI. They did a test and then sent me home. Days later I told my visiting nurse there had to be a problem, and I was sure I had a UTI. She looked into it and it turned out that I had tested positive. It the hospital and doctor screwed up and never gave me meds or it. Any least it explained the fever.
Months on PICC, chronic pain, finally reached the point where I could get 50 oz of Water in if i drank constantly in tiny sips. PICC removed. Did I mention no weight loss as PICC was high calorie to help the body heal? So months of misery and no weight loss. Mind you, this is a short paragraph but represents months of absolute hell. I was also working full time and had three kids at home.
Doctor told me to try and drink Protein Shakes and ignore my NUT as my stomach couldn't handle anything she was telling me to do. He told me just to get in my water and he didn't care about the rest.
Along the way, let's start with the maladaptive eating I developed...consuming liquid calories because everything hurt and by this time I was clinically depressed and didn't give a crap anymore if I ever lost a pound. I was not in a good mental place.
You are not suppose to drink with food, but my stomach developed such tremendously loud digestive noises that they could be heard 20 feet away every time I ate anything. The only way to get them to go away Is to stop eating a half hour before I see people and spend the whole half hour purposefully flushing the food out of my stomach with tons of water.
My hunger never went away, by the way, except when I was healing. So, I gave up on thinking I would feel full. Even if I drank no liquids, I was starving an hour later. I just accepted I would be hungry and learned to deal with it.
It is a year and a half later. I have enveloped such severe reflux that I aspirated acid every night even while sitting up. I stopped seeing my original doctor as he was awful, and moved on to care with a gastroenterologist who does NOT specialize in weight loss surgery. Upper GI showed severe stomach inflammation, changes in my esophagus, a nodule in the stomach wall, and a H Pylori infection. He seemed somewhat surprised my last doctor never checked for these things considering all the complications I was having.
So, why am I so angry? I realize complications can happen. None of us want to be that 1 percent, but some of us will and unfortunately I was in that group. I can live with this as I chose to take that risk. I am so angry because I felt a real sense in getting care that I was being patronized, told to wait and see if a problem went away instead of getting proper treatment, grated as if I was just crazy when everything I said was a problem turned out to have a definite reason. I feel it is a kind of unrecognized bias toward heavy and WLS patients.
So a year and a half later I am still suffering, but my gastro believes that the h pylori treatment will really help a lot of the things that have plagued me for the last year.
The problem is I have been left with a deep distrust of doctors. There were talks that I might need another surgery to correct the reflux, since my esophagus is developing abnormal cells that can lead to cancer. I think I may need to see a therapist for PTSD from all of this, but I'm pretty nonsensical about ever having another surgery....no way in heck. So we will treat the symptoms but I'm not going under the knife again short of death.
Sorry for the really long rant and rave. I just felt the need to share.
Take care all.

I'm an apple shape and no amount of weight loss will change that. Even when I weighed 122 lbs, it was my waist that was a problem. Buying pants that fit at waist and not baggy at hips has been a problem for me at every weight from 122 lbs. to 250 lbs. Hips, thighs - not a problem. Stomach - big problem. Body shape, to a large degree, is genetic.

I'm an apple shape and no amount of weight loss will change that. Even when I weighed 122 lbs, it was my waist that was a problem. Buying pants that fit at waist and not baggy at hips has been a problem for me at every weight from 122 lbs. to 250 lbs. Hips, thighs - not a problem. Stomach - big problem. Body shape, to a large degree, is genetic.

I was really lucky in that, even back in 2006, my doctor taught me what is now the current aporoach. Not many did then!

It us true and in the last few years thankfully the new way of thinking at my office was stay as loose as possible and still lose as opposed to the 3 bite tight mentality that i was banded under.

Take this for what it is, just my personal thoughts and experiences but that being said, I had a lapband for 6 years, Iv had the sleeve for a year and a half and I worked for a bariatric surgeon for almost 7 years. I LOVED my band, I went from 223 to 139 lbs and I maintained around 145 for years ! However, in order to do that I had to keep the band very tight. I couldn't eat anything before noon or after 6 without pain and suffering. When my body had enough I had shoulder pain and chest pain and never just felt full. I was always dehydrated and ended up with kidney stones twice but i was happy to sacrifice because I was a size 6/8 for the first time in my life ! But live long enough that way and it causes problems (severe reflux) and just misery any time you eat or try too. Of the hundreds of patients Iv worked with over the years, very few (maybe 30/40% ) have kept off weight and been successful long term with the band. My surgeon started offering the sleeve and after years of "selling" the band to others (with my personal success as a witness) I asked him to revise me to the sleeve because everyone said how wonderful it was. Well for many it is but for me I hate mine. It's not always the same for someone who has had prior surgery so as I type this today, I have gained almost 20 lbs since the sleeve and it's a fight (that I'm losing) to not gain more. That being said, if I was starting as a virgin patient today; I would choose the sleeve or the mini gastric bypass (which I'm revising too). We didn't know enough about the band in 2007 when I had mine but we now know there are cases of it fusing to the liver or embedding in the stomach wall and the chances are if you go with the band you WILL at some point have a revision. We really don't have all that long term study on the sleeve and while I don't worry and complications, I do think it will be at risk for regain. Do your research, make your own decision but i at least wanted to share my story

I am so sorry you have had such problems. I have been (happily) banded for nine years but have seen others banded around the same time having serious complications and for some, like you, removal. Equally, as you say, I know many people totally happy with their sleeve but a good friend of mine has had her whole life turned upside down by hers and has simply had to accept that this is her life from now on.
All surgery carries risks and I am always concerned when people rush into it without real knowledge. Your post is a good reminder to those looking into surgery - it may not be what they hope.
Please don't take this amiss if I just add one thing. Banded people cannot remove all risk. But they can minimise it. And the main way of doing that is by never keeping the band so tight that it physically prevents us eating or causes pain. If either if these things s happening, food is backing up into the oesophagus which can lead to oesophageal dilation or dysmotiliy or damage to the vagus nerve. Nothing is worth that!

I've been following your posts and I thank you for a new perspective. There are those on all 3 WLS forums who swear by their procedure and are happy as clams.
Your posts is a stark reminder that not all WLS works the same for all people. Just go to the complication forums for each. There are no guarantees.
I have an unfilled band (got in 2008, unfilled in 2009), was considering the sleeve but decided against it for many reasons. I hate my band and hated it from the beginning. It never did one thing for me in terms of weight loss, reaching satiety, but it did cause shoulder pain, pressure & pain and getting stuck.
When you get WLS it is a crap shoot. Will you be the one who says - it was a breeze, little pain, losing weight fast, everything's great? Or the one who says - I have a leak, am in the hospital with abscess, on IV feeding, or I have chronic Constipation or diarrhea or worsening GERD. For those who have amazing results, see 100 or more pounds lost, comorbidities disappear - they are willing to put up with the problems or side effects. Their life has improved more than it has deteriorated.
I am 64, the surgeon says I could lose up to 45 pounds with the sleeve but there would be no NSAIDS for life (I have arthritis and chronic back problems) with possible increased GERD. I don't believe the benefits outweigh the risks in my case.
I, too, would never suggest the band to anyone. I always hated mine. But I also wouldn't give a blanket endorsement to the sleeve. It is still new and remember when everyone was big on the band before we knew then what we know now? Who is to say what the long term case is with the sleeve?
I think your post shows that there are always two sides to WLS and they aren't always both good.