serious question for fellow "veterans"

[CowgirlJane 14,259]

Sorry, this site and kindle dont play well so my first post is blind...more in reply.

[CowgirlJane 14,259]

This discussion is aimed toward people who are several years post op - NOT toward people early in their journey.

Are we relevant anymore to the new people posting?

More than once I have been "grouped" with some unknown (to me) group of people who are mean and dogpile on others. While I am unrelenting in the truth of my experiences I don't intend to cause harm. After awhile one does have to question if this is the case since the accusation is made both openingly and veiled and by more than one person.

I can discount it to some extent (opinions aren't necessarily shared by others, people can be a bit on edge in the early days etc) but lately I have questioned my involvement in these forums. I get something back, but to be honest I could probably get that support by posting in vet and maintenance forums only. I try to help because if it weren't for others - who have long since left- I probably would have not been sleeved nor found the lasting success. But, they have left,the next wave left, and others have replaced whilst I hang on.

I am asking this question, not just about me, but across the board. When I am feeling cynical I am reminded of my experience when banded when I was told I would just be satisfied to "eat dainty portions" and like magic I would become trim and slender. I feel that now the sleeve is being mass marketed with similar questionable advice. I am especially empathetic to those like me who had so much to lose and were pretty deep in the obesity disease process. Ann had a thread about how little value nutritionists added and I am keenly aware of how...useless...some of the guidance people are given in the mass marketing of the sleeve.

This sounds like burn out but it is actually a different question - at 4 years post op is my experiences relevant? Just because I needed to shift my whole dang world to maintain this huge weight loss - is that even useful/relevant now?

Part of why I ask here is because I have received some direct criticisms that I don't even understand...I feel like the hard of hearing granny who cannot understand why everyone is mad that I announced my grand daughter's bra size in public (yes, my granny did that as she was astounded at my girth!)

Again please respect that this question is directed to fellow vets.

[Mom26 313]

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Edited October 30, 2015 by Mom26

[JapGirl 229]

I'll begin this by saying, I am not a veteran..... I'm not even post-op.... That being said.....

I don't think your "irrelevant". You still have experiences others have not been through. You can still mentor, guide, and advise. That is still important.....

BUT I have found that most veterans have become judgemental. Not everyone has a BMI of 45.... not everyone has blood pressure problems.... not everyone wants this because it is life saving.... some want it for reasons that aren't founded solely in medical issues. But does that make their journey any less significant?

I think sometimes perspective (on both sides) is needed. Sometimes that person needs tough love, but sometimes vets need to remeber their roots. Once upon a time I'm sure people were harsh about your choice for WLS, and you needed somewhere to go and get support in a judgement free way. Shouldn't that resource be available for someone who is just starting their journey, even if you don't agree with it?

For all you know you or another fellow vet may have just "dogpiled" on a newbie who finally got the gall to stand up for themselves and put themselves first. Now that newbie is hurt and feeling alone and has decided not to do it and his/her BMI could potentially skyrocket to a extremely high number or wait for a reason that is more "acceptable" like diabetes to set in.

Many people on this forum who got up past the 250# mark have mentioned that they wish they would have done it MUCH sooner and taken control of their lives earlier on. Is it fair to judge someone who is doing just that?

Posters still need people like you around. You have more experience with WLS and the after effects than anyone else here. And im sure if you haven't had it happen, you are in touch with someone who has. That is an invaluable resource to have.... but at the same time, this is a SUPPORT forum, we should all support each other, no matter the stage they are in.

Just my two cents.

Edited October 30, 2015 by 030608070609

[B-52 7,113]

To answer you question, the answer is NO! I am no longer relevant!

I have been through the basics, completed the process..and have moved onto living a normal life again with no worries about dieting, gaining or loosing weight...I can eat and drink foods people on diets would never dream of...

It seems like every other post is about whether someone can eat a cookie, or what do I use with dip....how about chips? Or crackers? That's what I use, but people starting out can't hear that, nor would they understand.

Sometimes, it seems like I have stumbled upon a Jenny Craig or weight watchers website....Over the last 30 years or so, I have been on every diet known...and it's all the same old mantra, and I am reading it here every day again and again.

The latest is strategies dealing with Halloween ????? I happen to like Reeces cups or Hershey bars...and the thing is, I don't expect people to understand what I just said.

There is huge gap between veterans and people starting out....like babies learning to walk and marathon runners....

Bottom line, I have come to a place that people just starting out can never dream of being a reality...We simply cannot relate, and honestly they are probably better off not knowing half the things I have discovered...(There is a life after weight loss)

It only confuses and distracts them.

Only thing me and people starting out have in common, is I can say "I've been there, done that" And know this, it will take you to places you never dreamed possible....IT DOES WORK!!!!

Sooner or later you will (Have to) finish this and move into a new realm.

All Journeys (I don't like the term) must come to and end sooner or later, otherwise your wandering around the wilderness forever....(making everyone in this business rich)

Everyone on this forum today, was not here when I first came (with the exception of one or two)

Where did everybody go???? Did they ALL FAIL? I don't think so...Like graduating from High School they have all moved on to bigger and better things...why would they want to hang around? (I keep asking myself that question)

Sad part about this is, when you come to this forum, all you do hear and read is people just starting out with no first hand experience, people complaining, lost, frustrated, confused looking for answers...and/or just having major, serious complications.

It would be easy to think that this is all there is to all this....when in reality everyone here is a minority...a very small segment....there is a whole world out there of "Veterans" you don't even know about and never hear about.

Not everyone has had problems...not everyone has found this difficult....and sometimes all that can be interpreted as negative...and when you're up, you don't need to be around that all the time.

Yes, there is a Veterans section here...but is it really?

To a very large extent I have to keep my mouth shut, keep my opinions to myself.

Many just would not understand.

I have definitely become Irrelevant....

[getjolly@aol.com 9]

I am a 3 year veteran and have been lurking in shadows for most of that time. Jane I am familiar with your medical difficulties, and other vets who have had a much easier journey. After a couple of days with boughts of nausea my personal experiences have been uneventful. I feel we are very relavent. I wish there had been more veterans I could relate to....to know there is an "afterlife" of normalcy after surgery.

[erp 2,016]

As a newbie, I looked to veterans to know what to expect as time passed. I found that more than relevant, I found it invaluable. As a veteran, I still look to those who have gone before me for the same information and guidance. I find it more than relevant, I find it invaluable. So you, Proud Granny, Sleeve 4 Me, Queen of Crop, FeedYourEyes, and all of the vets-- are relevant to me!

Occasionally I reply to folks that are early out but usually I stick to the general WLS threads, veteran's forum and maintenance areas. I simply can't stomach (pun intended) responding to one more "I drank an entire Big Gulp of Coke 2 days post op, did I break my sleeve?" or any other question that for lack of better word is idiotic. So in that vein, I never put myself in the line of fire to be accused of bashing, etc. I use the Bambi philosophy (if I can't say anything nice, I don't say anything) so thank you (and Lipstick Lady, etc) for "taking one for the team" when you give accurate and thoughtful answers to questions like that. However, I also agree that we are irrelevant at times to newbies because if a response does not fit within the answers they expected to get, then it is deemed unacceptable, i.e. you are bashing, judgmental and/or unsupportive. Obviously, Jane, anyone who has read more than one of your posts knows that couldn't be further from the truth. In those instances I take my jacks and go home. I don't reply, I don't play the game and frankly even if I did reply and someone got upset from it, I also recognize that it won't matter.

So many of the folks that post here that get all riled up, drop off this site within a few months post op anyway and We are still here doing what we need to do to be successful and supportive.

[B-52 7,113]

Sorry, but one more thing.....

Once upon a time this forum went by another name...and it was all people who had the Lap band procedure.

Since then, it has opened up up to all people with all WLS's, and the name has changed.

Understandably so...the growth and scope has become obvious.

But us Lap Band people are becoming more and more rare.

When I log in I purposely go into the Lap Band section, only to find it over run with people with surgeries other than Lap Band.

So for that reason, Lap band people in general are becoming more irrelevant...add to that being a Veteran.

[LipstickLady 25,682]

At 2.5 years out, I feel as if I am absolutely relevant, but completely **** upon because some people CHOOSE to take my words as attacks/judgmental/bullying/etc when I truly don't intend them that way.

I am not a warm fuzzy kind of girl. I never have been and I never will be. Seemingly, my personality was just FINE when I was "one of them" (newbie), but now that I am past those initial stages, I am a big old meanie. I try to remember that "newbies" are sensitive and hormonal, nervous and emotional but that said, I can't/won't coddle bad decisions. No one coddled me and I learned the most from people who told me their truths. Even when I couldn't relate, I appreciated that they shared with me their real feelings instead of justifying mine.

I, too, feel that I only "get" from the vet forums and maintenance forums, but that doesn't stop me from wanting to "give" in the other forums. Some will appreciate it, some will not. Those who do can take it, those who don't can leave it.

It's their choice, their gain, or their problem.

[Tssiemer1 549]

I think some people just get butt hurt too easy.

I'm pre op. I appreciate the honesty. At first I was like "aaaahhhhh judgement wahhhh" but then I got over it. I ask my questions for a reason. I post my struggles for a reason. To get an answer and support. Whatever form it comes in (a sensitive post, sarcastic remark, a funny picture, etc).

But also as a new person I have to wonder if some people are nothing but trolls posting bull crap questions to get a reaction.

And it seems no body searches the forms for related topics before posting the same question for the 80th time.

I understand the frustration but some people just need reassurance I guess.

Edited October 30, 2015 by Tssiemer1

[4MRB4PHOTO 3,899]

Positive reinforcement could also be interpreted as the opposite of that.

Granted no one should flame anyone who is asking for or providing advice that is respectful, but when people give tough love replies to questions such as "I am eating regular food like tacos and steak now, since I had the WLS surgery 6 days ago and have no problems. Why do I need to follow my surgeon's rules?"; it is for someone's safety and health.

Granted, there is a huge difference between hostility and a Freudian slip, such as someone saying "YOU (bleep)ING B!+$#, YOU RUINED MY LIFE!". When the person meant to say "Mom, could you please pass the ketchup".

This is NOT an example of a Freudian slip.

Sorry for digressing, I did start the reply off seriously.

Edited October 31, 2015 by 4MRB4PHOTO

[BLERDgirl 6,417]

You aren't irrelevant to me. I came here to just be able to talk with others about this process. I must admit to being surprised at the sheer volume of people who had problems. Anyway a year I I stay because I think I have a different WLS process to share. That said I am constantly amazed at the newbies who post only to have themselves coddled and get mad when they aren't.

[VSGAnn2014 12,992]

@@CowgirlJane ...

I really don't give a f**k about the butthurt newbies.

At 14+ months post-op and maintaining stably 10 pounds below my original weight goal, I'm here mainly for me -- not for the newbies.

But when I was a newbie, I was all eyes, all ears, sucking in everything the veterans had to say. I remember reading veterans forums avidly, even though I wasn't permitted to respond in them, desperate to understand what my future would look like. I loved everything those vets had to say.

And what the easily butthurt newbies here say about me and others who share their truth does NOT butthurt me at all.

So here's my truth about this forum: This forum is not just for newbies. It's for everyone who's on the WLS path. And that includes me and @@CowgirlJane and @@B-52 (btw, awesome post, @@B-52 !). I am most interested in what my peers and those farther along than me are going through. That hasn't changed at all.

Finally, this is the Internet. It's full of sincere people, smart people, dumb people, and asshats. It's never going to be a community of people just like me.

Oh, and one more thing -- I would like to admit that the idiots offer me not only entertainment, but they motivate me, too. It's nice to be reminded of all the stupid things I am not doing, never did, and never will do.

Buck up, everybody!

[Cape Crooner 589]

Absolutely not irrelevant!

I'm new to this journey, but as a 50 year veteran at dieting, I know that nothing is more irrelevant or annoying than hearing the opinion of someone who has just lost a bunch of weight and NOW think they know everything about the RIGHT WAY to lose weight! The truth is, they actually know next to nothing, what they claim as knowledge is simply a regurgitation of things they've read of heard from the so-called experts.

Even before my orientation, I discovered how wrong the so-called experts were for the simple reason that they don't agree on most of the most important aspects of a typical WLS program...

Like:

• Pre-opt diet
• liquid Diet
• Post-opt diet
• When to drink and when to eat
• Portion sizes
• When to add coffee
• When to add alcohol (if ever)

Understand, I have seen inconsistencies in all of the topics just within my own hospital. Expand it to this forum or the whole frigging Internet and you quickly realize that THERE ARE NO RULES. Of course the typical true believer newbie will simply assume the lowest common denominator or exactly what their program told them.

To me all of this is useless. While the results we're hearing about are incredible, this is ultimately still a diet (you can't just get the surgery and never worry about calories, carbs, and the scale again).

Like all successful diets, we're mostly all very strict with ourselves in the beginning, but our conviction eventually wanes after we meet our goal AND THAT'S WHEN EVERYTHING GETS INTERESTING!

So, to me, you vets are actually all I care about. The divergent expert opinions have already proved themselves irrelevant as are the newbie myna birds who mimic their advice.

You are the most relevant participants in this board!

PS: Although I have a VSG, I know there are many successful bands as well, so to me that's a distinction with no difference...

[ShrinkingPeach 1,291]

I agree that you are absolutely not irrelevant. All the wonderful veterans have been such an excellent inspiration and resource. I am more likely to reach out privately with a question than blast it in the open. NOT because my questions are unintelligent but because I rarely have them and I want legitimate advice.

I appreciate the veterans but do agree there is a certain contingent on here that are looking for validation for bad choices. I am only 5 months post-op so I am certainly not a veteran by any means but I am a very educated person on the process. I don't sugar coat things and when I see someone making bad choices I say so. I obviously have a grasp on the right things to do as I have lost 95 pounds so far.

I have dialed back how much time I spend here tremendously due to the fact that some posts make my blood boil and it just isn't worth it. I miss sharing my successes but in the long run I am less irritated. I have difficulty just shaking my head at those post-op posters wanting to know when they can return to their old eating habits.

Those people are the reason the surgeries, no matter which one you have, are less than a 100% success rate.

In closing for the veterans who continue to post and share your stories, this girl is grateful!! You are all very relevant it is just that everyone doesn't have the capacity to appreciate what you have to offer and that is their loss!!