I just finished reading a couple of posts and I couldn't do anything but say to myself, "Seriously? Really?"

I know there are going to be some people that will probably what to take my head off for this one, but I just have to ask... Are there really people that frequent this website that are so weak-minded and sensitive that they can be absolutely devastated and sent into an uncontrollable bout of depression over something someone wrote in a thread?

If someone that you don't know, have never met, and they know nothing about you, can cause such an emotional reaction in you, I personally think that you don't even need to be considering WLS at this point. You really should be seeking out the services of a therapist to figure out what makes you give away your personal power to a complete stranger.

I hear people say how "mean" some people are, and how rude others are. People are only to you what you allow them to be, and they can only take control of the power you give them.

I have never testified that I know everything about everything, but to the contrary I'm not dumb as a box of rocks! Bottom line, stop letting the things these people on this site upset you, or even get your dander up. You never know, they may come here just to see what type of drama they can get started. If you find something of value to you, keep it and cherish it. All the rest of this mess is nothing but chatter.

This post may not have been directly toward you, but if the shoe fits, feel free to lace that b i t c h up and wear it.

so, why has this thread been left here in the main sleeve forum and not moved in the rant and raves? the OP got the attention she was seeking by creating this thread, please kindly move it to where it belongs.

Edited March 23, 201511 yr by VSGmary

so, why has this thread been left here in the main sleeve forum and not moved in the rant and raves? the OP got the attention she was seeking by creating this thread, please kindly move it to where it belongs.

I didn't even realize there was a rant and raves section. Good call.

@@Elode Girl you know better than to stray too far away from me. People just love to jump on me because I speak the truth and they don't like it. Still have these flouncers running around trying to save the world...

For everybody else, here is a more readable version of the internet trolling case study I posted above, I know that scientific papers can be kind of dry. Its an interesting look at individuals who like to troll, or just like to create drama/stir up trouble. Generally speaking, it is the anonymity of the internet that drives people to behave this way. Intellectual honestly has nothing to do with anything. That term doesn't apply to the situation, because no one is accusing people of being bullies/trolls/rude/whatever because of an intellectual disagreement. We are addressing someone's online behavior, not an intellectual opinion. Now I don't see any trolls in this thread, but I am seeing people who like to stir up trouble, who feed off of the drama. If you create drama wherever you go, that says a lot more about you than it does about the posters where you go. Being rude and confrontational is not something to be proud of. It's one thing to post your opinion in the original thread, but starting an entirely new thread, with such a dramatic title, is just a desperate plea for attention. Are you substitution confrontation on the internet for something else in your life? I'm not going to go ad hominum and guess what it is that might be lacking, but just suggest that you look at why you feed off drama.

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140217/05122426247/psychologists-internet-trolls-are-narcissistic-psychopathic-sadistic.shtml

Let me be clear. Nobody here is a troll. But I see some people who are willing to be deliberately hurtful if it gets them confrontation and attention. There is overlap between trolls and people who hurt others in pursuit of drama. Causing trouble wherever you go is not something to be proud of, but if it is, there are places on the internet where you'll fit right in. Cruelty is easy, compassion and empathy are hard. I bet the same people who are slamming people with depression as being thin-skinned and weak would struggle on the fat people shaming boards of the internet. There are people for whom destroying the psyches of other people is a life's calling. This place is supposed to be a haven for people like us. If you're so proud of being divisive, if you think it's sink or swim and everyone who has trouble transitioning shouldn't be here, I might as well link this thread over at reddit and 4chan so you can see what you look like to the rest of us.

But again, all this is YOUR OPINION. It's YOUR DECISION to see posts as "cruel", "psyche destroying", "hurtful", "trouble stirring", "feeding off drama", etc. I choose not to see most posts that way unless there is name calling and like personal attacks. I rarely see that here. When I do, I call it out no matter what side of the argument they are on.

An amusing phenomenon to me? For the most part, feelings don't usually seem to be hurt until four or five people jump in and tell someone that they should be.

Bottom line, I will choose to post the way I want as will you. I will continue to interpret the posts the way I want, as will you. If someone thinks I am "cruel", "psyche destroying", "hurtful", "trouble stirring", "feeding off drama", etc., so be it. They will be absolutely wrong, but it is what it is.

so, why has this thread been left here in the main sleeve forum and not moved in the rant and raves? the OP got the attention she was seeking by creating this thread, please kindly move it to where it belongs.

Happy to move it.

I do think by some people's standards, your personal commentary about what you perceive to be the OP's intentions aren't that kind. But hey, that's another perception call.

@@gal friday ...

I don't have time this morning to point out the multiple instances of intellectual dishonesty and illogicality in your latest post.

But I will observe that referring readers to a study about the psychological and moral shortcomings of internet trolling, then saying that no one here is a troll, then calling the OP with whom you disagree as someone who's cruel and desperately seeking attention sure seems you're creating some drama of your own.

BTW, I know you must be frustrated professionally. I get that. And I'm sorry for your loss.

Edited March 23, 201511 yr by VSGAnn2014

I see the majority of people posting on this topic are "Gastric Sleeve" people.

Gee, I need to start visiting that group....The Lap Band section gets a little boring compared to this.....

Wait, I think I just insulted two groups?

Seriously, it's a big world out there with countless persuasions of people...and the Internet is tapped right into it....so signing onto a public "World Wide" forum......you expect, what?

Take the good, spit out the bad.....just like life itself....

I've been posting here for over 4 years....but does anybody really know me?

Am I legit? Are YOU legit! I'm have no idea. But I do know myself, and I can only pay attention to things that relate to me.....

If that makes any sence.........BTW, this forum is tame compared to some other forums I belong to.....

I try not to let stuff bother me, I think it's important to remember, just like life there are those in forums, who enjoy stirring the pot and getting the reaction. I try to stay away from those who can't have a difference of opinion like a human being. We all don't have to agree on everything, but it would be nice if we could all be polite when we do disagree.

I try not to let stuff bother me, I think it's important to remember, just like life there are those in forums, who enjoy stirring the pot and getting the reaction. I try to stay away from those who can't have a difference of opinion like a human being. We all don't have to agree on everything, but it would be nice if we could all be polite when we do disagree.

I call it like I see it and rude is rude. Don't try to dress it up as tough love or blame the person it is directed at.

Wait, what?! You are the ultimate judge of who and what is rude? It's my opinion that what YOU think is rude and what I think is rude may be two totally different things. What makes your opinion of what is rude, FACT? Genuinely curious. Not trying to be "rude".

Like the judge who was asked to define pornography said - "I'll know it when I see it".

Same goes here. I'll know a rude comment when I see it and obviously the person(s) who complain about them do too. People who make them can continue ad infinitum, ad nauseum to try to defend them with all kinds of excuses about using back buttons, staying off here, freedom of speech and blaming the victim.

Notice how no one has to defend nice, helpful, supportive comments? That speaks volumes.

I disagree completely. You can't go from being the ultimate judge of what is or is not rude to "I'll know it when I see it". You don't know the intent behind the comment, you don't know the tone and you don't know the history of the poster or the reader. All of these factors play a HUGE part in the perception of the comments.

Nice is kind of relative but helpful and supportive? Not so much.

If I tell you I drank a few beers on Saturday, ate 2 donuts yesterday and am upset because I didn't lose any weight this weekend, and you say, "Oh HONEY! That's OK. You just get your cute little patoot back on the wagon and you will be fine..." , that is not helpful or supportive to me.

If instead, you say, "What a dumbass decision. You should know better than that. Go back to your Protein, shake your ass in kickboxing a little extra, and don't whine about eating stupid s**t if you are going to make stupid decisions!", I would consider you helpful and supportive.

You might not think so, someone delicate might not think so, but the first answer--the patronizing one-- will only help ME justify my actions and repeat my behaviors. I got fat justifying my bad behaviors because everyone was too "nice", "supportive" and "helpful" to give me the tough love I needed.

I hate to break it to you, but you aren't the ultimate judge of what is kind, rude, helpful, supportive, snarky, etc., nor am I. Only the author of the post knows their intent. Everyone else is simply making the choice of how to perceive it, and whether to heed it, embrace it, ignore it and/or be "devastated" (yes, that was said the other day) by it.

If the reader finds it offensive or rude enough to start a new thread about it (or even just says they felt insulted) then I don't see how my finding it rude makes me the ultimate judge. I am entitled to call it like I see it, as are you. You can call it tough love, a needed kick in the butt or whatever euphemism you want. And I will call it what I want.

If someone said they had beer and donuts and didn't lose weight I would say: " We've all done it. We've all strayed from what we should be doing. No one is perfect. You know what you need to do to start losing weight again - you've done it already. You've lost X pounds. Just get back on the wagon, drink your Water and protein, step up your exercise and forgive yourself. You'll get there. And the next time you're tempted to eat/drink something you shouldn't think of how bad you felt this time."

I would never refer to someone's decision as dumbass or to shake their ass in kickboxing (you don't know the person's physical limitations). You don't know the background of the poster either - all the more reason not to make these kinds of comments.

There are a few on here who support your way but many more who post my way.

I stick to my way and you stick to yours.

Oh, and another thing ...

It is intellectually dishonest to label someone who disagrees with you online as a troll or a bully.

Yeah ... no.

Online Definiton:" Examples of cyberbullying include mean text messages or emails." I would add posts to that, too.

And as someone on here said: "If the shoe fits feel free to lace that bitch up and wear it."

Online Definiton:" Examples of cyberbullying include mean text messages or emails." I would add posts to that, too.

And as someone on here said: "If the shoe fits feel free to lace that b***h up and wear it."

LOL!

Re definitions, you might wish to look up the definition of "irony" and then re-read your own post (above).

But seriously, folks ... we're not all going to agree about what's "rude" and what's normal back-and-forth on an internet message board. Although we all speak English, the members of this board enjoy significant cultural (and ideological and political and religious) differences.

Peace out.

Edited March 23, 201511 yr by VSGAnn2014

If the reader finds it offensive or rude enough to start a new thread about it (or even just says they felt insulted) then I don't see how my finding it rude makes me the ultimate judge. I am entitled to call it like I see it, as are you. You can call it tough love, a needed kick in the butt or whatever euphemism you want. And I will call it what I want.

If someone said they had beer and donuts and didn't lose weight I would say: " We've all done it. We've all strayed from what we should be doing. No one is perfect. You know what you need to do to start losing weight again - you've done it already. You've lost X pounds. Just get back on the wagon, drink your Water and Protein, step up your exercise and forgive yourself. You'll get there. And the next time you're tempted to eat/drink something you shouldn't think of how bad you felt this time."

There are a few on here who support your way but many more who post my way.

I stick to my way and you stick to yours.

Isn't it funny how differently we all see things? I remember a poster who, not too long ago, went into a thread, interrupted an intelligent discussion about exercise by a few people who are trained athletes, called them a few choice names, and then started not one but TWO flounce threads when he was called on it. I can't fathom how that was justifiable, but if you do, good for you!

I must say that one of my biggest pet peeves is when someone goes into a thread and patronizes someone by saying "we've ALL done that" or "EVERYONE feels that way" or any other sweeping generalism. It makes my teeth hurt to keep my mouth shut on those. Can you honestly speak for everyone?

Huh? Uhm, ok. I don't know what "my way" and "your way" is, but thanks for giving me permission.

Online Definiton:" Examples of cyberbullying include mean text messages or emails." I would add posts to that, too.

And as someone on here said: "If the shoe fits feel free to lace that b***h up and wear it."

LOL!

Re definitions, you might wish to look up the definition of "irony" and then re-read your own post (above).

But seriously, folks ... we're not all going to agree about what's "rude" and what's normal back-and-forth on an internet message board. Although we all speak English, the members of this board enjoy significant cultural (and ideological and political and religious) differences.

Peace out.

Irony definition: the expression of one's meaning by using language that normally signifies the opposite, typically for humorous or emphatic effect.

Nope, don't see that here. I didn't insult and certainly didn't bully anyone by quoting a well known phrase (unnecessarily altered somewhat by the poster) that was put on this thread.

Like I said, those who post kindly never have to defend themselves.

If the reader finds it offensive or rude enough to start a new thread about it (or even just says they felt insulted) then I don't see how my finding it rude makes me the ultimate judge. I am entitled to call it like I see it, as are you. You can call it tough love, a needed kick in the butt or whatever euphemism you want. And I will call it what I want.

If someone said they had beer and donuts and didn't lose weight I would say: " We've all done it. We've all strayed from what we should be doing. No one is perfect. You know what you need to do to start losing weight again - you've done it already. You've lost X pounds. Just get back on the wagon, drink your Water and Protein, step up your exercise and forgive yourself. You'll get there. And the next time you're tempted to eat/drink something you shouldn't think of how bad you felt this time."

There are a few on here who support your way but many more who post my way.

I stick to my way and you stick to yours.

Isn't it funny how differently we all see things? I remember a poster who, not too long ago, went into a thread, interrupted an intelligent discussion about exercise by a few people who are trained athletes, called them a few choice names, and then started not one but TWO flounce threads when he was called on it. I can't fathom how that was justifiable, but if you do, good for you!

I must say that one of my biggest pet peeves is when someone goes into a thread and patronizes someone by saying "we've ALL done that" or "EVERYONE feels that way" or any other sweeping generalism. It makes my teeth hurt to keep my mouth shut on those. Can you honestly speak for everyone?

Huh? Uhm, ok. I don't know what "my way" and "your way" is, but thanks for giving me permission.

Well, I guess you've been the perfect pre-op and post-op patient who has never once gone off the wagon so to speak. Or made any mistakes. Good for you.

Any other perfect sleeve pre or post opt people? Feel free to tell us how to be perfect through out all of this journey. I am sure those who are imperfect could learn so much. However, I don't think those who are imperfect would view my remark as patronizing.

Maybe a new thread could be started entitled "Perfect sleevers please step forward - those who have made mistakes need not post".

Have a perfect day!!

Wow this got good

Personally, I believe in survival of the fittest. If you can't handle the heat, get out of the kitchen so to speak. So Boo hoo someone got their feelings hurt. I'm not saying whatever was said to that person was right or wrong. It doesn't matter. Get your sh*t together and move on. Seems like most people here are trying to accuse people of bullying when I think they should look to the one complaining about the bullies. Only they can control how they feel and react to comments made by other people. They can choose to dwell on it and cry or brush it off realizing it has no true effect on their lives.

@GreenEyes604 is completley justified in her rant. And it seems to be just that, a rant. Most of us feel the need to do it every now and then. I know I've called people out before on this site and that was mainly because they tried to call me wrong on something with a dumba$$ reason. Call me out sure, but be smart about it.

If you're so sensitive that you're going to cry over a little spat on the internet, then get off the internet. Ever hear the saying "do what you've always done, get what you always got"? You want things to change, make a change.

As for trying to get attention, it seems to me that there are more responders to this post trying to get attention than the original post. We all need to vent occasionally, but to seek out and respond to someones vent with self righteous opinions screams attention grabbing to me.

Hmmmmm, wonder how many people I've pissed off with this? Boo hoo, get over if I did.

Well, I guess you've been the perfect pre-op and post-op patient who has never once gone off the wagon so to speak. Or made any mistakes. Good for you.

Any other perfect sleeve pre or post opt people? Feel free to tell us how to be perfect through out all of this journey. I am sure those who are imperfect could learn so much. However, I don't think those who are imperfect would view my remark as patronizing.

Maybe a new thread could be started entitled "Perfect sleevers please step forward - those who have made mistakes need not post".

Have a perfect day!!

How bizarre of you to put words in my mouth.

And you were a therapist?

You have a great day, too.

Sadly, the truth is that I can no longer come to this site without seeing at least one rude/judgmental/accusatory/unsupportive/antagonistic/snarky/overly (overly overly overly) defensive/snobby reply to at least one thread where someone was struggling and/or genuinely looking for help and support. I've never been the target of these replies, but if I were, I'd feel like I was being attacked/written off/judged/etc. with no good reason.

There is still a lot of good info/support here, and it's a wonderful place for pre-op questions, but unless you're looking for your own personal drill sergeant it's not the most kind/caring/information sharing type of "support group" that I'd wager most people are looking for.

This post is basically saying that to people who don't like the drill sergeant method: "There's something intrinsically wrong with you and you're not ready for weight loss surgery anyway and you need to seek psychological help, you whiny, whiny baby."

Well I'm sorry, but I take issue with that. First of all who are you to tell someone they're ready or not? Based on some arbitrary make-believe guidelines that have zero to do with WLS. What does one thing have to do with the other? (PROTIP: That was a rhetorical question. The answer is "nothing at all.") Also, this ENTIRE thread is a whiny reaction to something "someone that you don't know" posted on a message board. Isn't that a little hypocritical? (Also rhetorical!)

This is basically how I feel about the whole thing. I'm no wilting flower, so I can take the tough stuff (and spit it right back out) and be no worse for the wear. Some people are far more sensitive and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. But if anyone is free to come here and dish out "tough love" then the people who are defending the "tough love" approach need to also recognize that people might, just MAYBE, publicly complain about it. You're putting yourself out there on the internet, not everybody is going to like what you have to say. It doesn't mean they're "universally defining" you or whatever you say, but it does mean that each of us gets to define our reactions to it for ourselves, whether publicly, or privately. So, my advice is: deal with it and stop complaining that not everybody likes every little thing you say.