Interesting article!

http://www.nbcnews.com/health/scientists-obese-have-higher-levels-hunger-hormone-their-blood-6C10639235

IS phentermine still legal? I think I need some of THAT! As for the ghrelin, I am 3 years out and although I don't get ravenously hungry like before, I now register the desire to eat, and it IS a desire ... the loss of that desire was the most awesome part of the post-op honeymoon. I want that back. sigh.

Phentermine is legal. Fenfluramine (the other half of phen/fen) is not. That's the drug that was causing heart attacks.

Hmmm... Makes me wonder. Post op VSG you produce little to no ghrelin, so you are not really ever "hungry". But over time many start to regain some of the "hunger" feeling as ghrelin production increases. But right after (post op) is also probably when people who have VSG are getting their highest amounts of protein. ( Isn't that what they stress?? Protein, protein, protein) In the study they say researchers have found high protein diets reduce the amount of ghrelin produced.....So, maybe it is a combination of surgery AND high protein diets that creates the desired effect. Therefore sticking with a high protein diet should, in essence, delay or eradicate the return of ghrelin. Love for them to do a study on that theory!

Has a ghrelin suppressor been invented yet?

As someone who personally knows the scientists that first realized that Ghrelin had anything to do with being fat, I learned a lot about Ghrelin back in 1999 and 2000. (Google "Tschop Ghrelin"...you'll find the Nature paper that first demonstrated it.) At any rate, every pharmaceutical company has synthesized various ghrelin antagonists (they do the chemical opposite of,) but while these chemicals suppress ghrelin, they don't seem to change body composition very much. Instead, the body up-regulates many other hormones to make up the difference.

The thing is, it's entirely possible that there are other hormones produced by the stomach that haven't been understood or discovered yet. Prior to about 2000, the stomach wasn't considered an endocrine organ at all. So it's reasonable to think that VSG does more than just dramatically decrease ghrelin production. It certainly does that, but a pill that blocked ghrelin likely wouldn't have the same effect as VSG. If it did, many companies would have such a pill on the market by now.

While ghrelin is certainly very important in regulation of hunger and appetite, it's not the "smoking gun" per se. There are other hormones that have already been identified (like leptin, for example) that also regulate hunger, and I wouldn't be even slightly surprised if more are produced by the stomach that otherwise signal to the brain that it's "time to eat!" If you take out (most of) the stomach, those signals are also gone (among other things,) even if scientists haven't yet figured them out.

As someone who personally knows the scientists that first realized that Ghrelin had anything to do with being fat, I learned a lot about Ghrelin back in 1999 and 2000. (Google "Tschop Ghrelin"...you'll find the Nature paper that first demonstrated it.) At any rate, every pharmaceutical company has synthesized various ghrelin antagonists (they do the chemical opposite of,) but while these chemicals suppress ghrelin, they don't seem to change body composition very much. Instead, the body up-regulates many other hormones to make up the difference.

The thing is, it's entirely possible that there are other hormones produced by the stomach that haven't been understood or discovered yet. Prior to about 2000, the stomach wasn't considered an endocrine organ at all. So it's reasonable to think that VSG does more than just dramatically decrease ghrelin production. It certainly does that, but a pill that blocked ghrelin likely wouldn't have the same effect as VSG. If it did, many companies would have such a pill on the market by now.

While ghrelin is certainly very important in regulation of hunger and appetite, it's not the "smoking gun" per se. There are other hormones that have already been identified (like leptin, for example) that also regulate hunger, and I wouldn't be even slightly surprised if more are produced by the stomach that otherwise signal to the brain that it's "time to eat!" If you take out (most of) the stomach, those signals are also gone (among other things,) even if scientists haven't yet figured them out.

THANKS, this is Very Helpful information. Yes, it's not simple. I find (but by definition this is anecdotal only) that I am hungry at the same times each day, AND that if I have a "treat" on dayt one I'll want that treat for the next 3/4 days at the same time. Lastly, while I say "hungry", I really don't know what that is since I spent most of my adult life eating without ANY relationship to hunger...

Arts, agree re eating without any relationship to hunger. However, what the sleeve has done for me is allow me, at 52, to learn what empty and full feels like! And that is probably more useful to me in knowing when to eat and how much to eat. At the moment, "hungry" feels like a redundant term for me - but that may change in time :-)

I'm a month shy of being 3.5 years out. Still no hunger, not real hunger. I get and empty feeling, but not hunger. It's amazing. I hope it will always be like this!!!

LMAO!!!!!

Helpful article and discussion. Thank you!

This subject interests me very much. I've been doing my own research since I developed Graves' disease and had to have my thyroid removed. I did a weight loss program prior to the thyroid issue that involved beads placed behind my ears that stimulated the hypothalamus to trigger a stop to hunger hormone production. I would assume the same one. It was based on a study done at Johns Hopkins by a doctor who is no longer with us. I was successful in weight loss but my body found a way to object to the suppression. I was satisfied with 500 calories a day, I did two days of fasting on milk followed by two days of 2 fruits and 1 and 1/2 lbs of veggies. U til I reached a healthy BMI. I then added back foods one at a time until I found my maintenance. And that for me required fastin one day a week. But my body retaliated after a year and a half by Graves and I became leptin resistant. I believe that is my problem. Because now I'm using a natural thyroid hormone to replace what the thyroid would simulate. My belief is that the hypothalamus and pituitary are the culprits. The idea that the stomach can also be a gland is pivotal in my opinion. With endocrine doctors unable to see past TSH as their gold standards of what is going on in metabolism. This is just one of many reasons they should get back in the game and do some more research. Especially with the obesity epidemic today! I'm not a scientist and just a lay person who can see I have to go on someone else's research and self diagnose and treat this disorder. It is in my opinion a sound reason to have this surgery to give myself the best chance at a healthy existence. I went from being 230lbs to 160 lbs. then Graves which I gained back 237lbs. Now unable to get under control. Pray surgery will be the tool I need.

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This is a great question!

This subject interests me very much. I've been doing my own research since I developed Graves' disease and had to have my thyroid removed. I did a weight loss program prior to the thyroid issue that involved beads placed behind my ears that stimulated the hypothalamus to trigger a stop to hunger hormone production. I would assume the same one. It was based on a study done at Johns Hopkins by a doctor who is no longer with us. I was successful in weight loss but my body found a way to object to the suppression. I was satisfied with 500 calories a day, I did two days of fasting on milk followed by two days of 2 fruits and 1 and 1/2 lbs of veggies. U til I reached a healthy BMI. I then added back foods one at a time until I found my maintenance. And that for me required fastin one day a week. But my body retaliated after a year and a half by Graves and I became leptin resistant. I believe that is my problem. Because now I'm using a natural thyroid hormone to replace what the thyroid would simulate. My belief is that the hypothalamus and pituitary are the culprits. The idea that the stomach can also be a gland is pivotal in my opinion. With endocrine doctors unable to see past TSH as their gold standards of what is going on in metabolism. This is just one of many reasons they should get back in the game and do some more research. Especially with the obesity epidemic today! I'm not a scientist and just a lay person who can see I have to go on someone else's research and self diagnose and treat this disorder. It is in my opinion a sound reason to have this surgery to give myself the best chance at a healthy existence. I went from being 230lbs to 160 lbs. then Graves which I gained back 237lbs. Now unable to get under control. Pray surgery will be the tool I need.

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So you did it "naturally" but with an appetite suppressant...

@@rebecca wills

I also have Graves Disease, had it most of my life, but only got formally diagnosed last year.

It kept me slim till last 2 years 2014-2016 where I gained 41 kg (90.2 Ibs) !!!

I had to have my thyroid destroyed and stabilised prior my VSG, so I finally was sleeved in March 2016, instead of July 2015 ...

Auto-immune diseases, hormonal dysfunctions, they all can play havoc with the body/brain/mind and emotions.

I am close to 3 months post op, have lost fair bit of weight, still suffering with thyroid issues, as the more weight I lose, the more hyper-thyroid I get, and my Thyroxine dose needs constant monitoring and adjusting.

I am afraid that the Ghrelin will come back, after 6 months or so, don't know how this whole journey will pan out.

Just trying to do my best one day at a time, and coping with hyper-thyroid symptoms again!

The heart ones are the scariest, high blood pressure again and racing pulse, plus rebound insomnia ....

As for the hunger and appetite, for now I have lost most of it, and lost my chocolate and sweet cravings.

I am very mindful of high Protein diet, fluids, good veggies and vitamins/supplements.

As I had such a massive, rapid weight gain in the past 2 years, so far the Sleeve is really helping me.

I tried Duromine tablets before, and had to stop as my Graves could not cope with the speed/amphetamine type drugs.

I wish you all the best, rebecca!

Providing your labs (thyroid) are OK, the surgery should help.

You're welcome to PM me.

Margo

Thanks for your confirmation! I'm very excited to get surgery June 30th I have someone in my support group at the hospital that had their thyroid removed. And has had success.

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The woman said she does fine 1 year out.

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