I am not friends with anyone on this board. I dont know you all and really have no desire to. I came here for support during a transition in my life. I just have a couple of things I would like to say.

People who hide behind the Lord to chastise other people or use the Lord to make others feel guilty should be ashamed of themselves. HOW DARE YOU drag the Almighty God into this kind of bickering. Do you keep God on the same level as yourselves?? Keep Him on a leash and turn Him loose whenever it makes you look good?? I can't stand when pious people throw this "I will pray for you crap" around to make them seem holier than thou.. Just as bad are the people who use your christianity to slap you in the face. "I thought you were a Christian"... As if that is something they just came up with and haven't used that line time and time again to attack people. Christians are sinners, people. Jesus is the attonement for our sins. Paul, David and Moses were all murderers for God's sake and the Lord used each of these men in mighty ways. They each wrote major portions of the Bible. God created us to worship Him not to use Him for our own foolish gain. Come ONNNN!!!!! Enough if enough. Dont you all have friends in "real life"?? If your so unhappy online then step away from the keyboard... Shut the dang thing off... move on with your lives.. find another message board where everyone is perfect.. Or do SOMETHING!!!! But leave God out of your petty, childish bickering. If your not a Christian then be a decent human being and leave Him out anyway... He is very important to some people.

My Advice to all the angry people: Get a grip and move on past it.

Kathy

Thank you! Beautiful!

Enough said?

by Maya Angelou

When I say... "I am a Christian"

I'm not shouting "I'm clean livin'."

I'm whispering "I was lost,

Now I'm found and forgiven."

When I say... "I am a Christian"

I don't speak of this with pride.

I'm confessing that I stumble

and need Christ to be my guide.

When I say... "I am a Christian"

I'm not trying to be strong.

I'm professing that I'm weak

And need His strength to carry on.

When I say... "I am a Christian"

I'm not bragging of success.

I'm admitting I have failed

And need God to clean my mess.

When I say... "I am a Christian"

I'm not claiming to be perfect,

My flaws are far too visible

But, God believes I am worth it.

When I say... "I am a Christian"

I still feel the sting of pain.

I have my share of heartaches

So I call upon His name.

When I say... "I am a Christian"

I'm not holier than thou,

I'm just a simple sinner

Who received God's good grace, somehow!

It rains? Thank God. It STOPS raining? Thank God. Someone SURVIVED the crash? God protected them. Someone DIED in the crash? God wanted them home. They were running late for an appointment, but traffic was light? God did that, too. If that is how someone perceives the world, what they see is is STRONGLY influenced by their belief system...and that belief system influences how they percieve everything.

Not to mention that, as you know, dying people are often under the influence of drugs AND have other physical problems that interfere with their processing information and communicating what they are thinking...IF they are thinking.

(And, no, of course I don't believe in Satan...or any other mystical or spiritual stuff.)

Wow. Nicely said. :clap2:

When a plane crashed killing many, but leaving many alive, among the people onboard was a family of 4; husband, wife, son and daughter. The wife and her daughter both died, while the husband and his son wound up in the hospital. A TV newsman asked the man a question, but rather than answer, the man responded with "first I have to thank God for saving my son and me." When asked how he felt about his wife and daughter dying while he and his son survived, "who are we to question God's ways?"

Then there was the man interviewed after his wife, who had been using fertility drugs, gave birth to 7 children. "How do you feel being a father of 7 children?"

"Before I say anything else, I have to thank the good Lord..."

No!! The good Lord did not want his wife to have children. That's why she was infertile.

I see what all the hoopla is about. No wonder people are so damn sensitive lately.

Ok folks. Take a break from the puter. Let's go!

Religion is the worst subject to bring up amongst friends. The talk of religion (being that everyone has different belief systems) is a major test of friendship. I myself am a Buddhist... so let's not go there ok?

Can I get a coombaya?

I see what all the hoopla is about. No wonder people are so damn sensitive lately.

Ok folks. Take a break from the puter. Let's go!

Religion is the worst subject to bring up amongst friends. The talk of religion (being that everyone has different belief systems) is a major test of friendship. I myself am a Buddhist... so let's not go there ok?

Can I get a coombaya?

Personally I think the beauty of this thread is that everyone HAS been expressing their beliefs and noone has been attacked.. at least not in my opinion.. thier beliefs have been challenged, yes, but no personal attacks. Except a couple against me from people who misunderstood what I was trying to say. It didn't upset me in the least. People have been free to state their beliefs and defend them without anyone going off the deep end... I think that is great.

My mother was the eldest sibling born into a Roman Catholic family of 6. She was two years older than her brother and then there was a 10 year gap followed by two more children.

My grandfather was ill for many years and after the doctors gave up, many friends of the family brought "healers" to the house. When my mother was 17, a Pentecostal minister "healed" my grandfather. My mother and her eldest brother refused to convert when grandpa decided that the family would become Pentecostal from thence on.

I was raised as a Roman Catholic, but spent many weekends with my grandparents who's idea of a good time was going to a Pentecostal church at least 4 times a week. I spent more time in Pentecostal churches than Catholic churches.

When my mother died, we had 3 days of wakes, 2 sessions a day. My grandfather was told that he could have as many Pentecostal ministers as he wanted lead the visitors in pray services, but that at 8pm on the last day of the wakes, a Catholic priest would be there to give the final prayer services (as was my mother's wishes).

The room reminded me of a civil war, with the aisle being the Mason-Dixon line. Pentecostal on one side and Catholic on the other. Over 12 Pentecostal ministers came to pray before the Catholic priest arrived. When the priest arrived, we reminded my grandfather, but he had a Pentecostal minister start a sermon just after the priest got there anyway.

I was 19 at the time and could not believe the fight that took place between the Pentecostal minister and Catholic priest. It culminated in the Catholic priest decreeing, "This woman will burn in Hell because of these heathens praying over her".

I accosted the priest and gave him a lecture. "Who the Hell are you to condemn my mother to burn in Hell because of the acts of someone else?"

He calmed down and after the Pentecostal minister was escorted out, he performed the service.

I lived with my grandparents on Long Island not too long after that and every week a different Pentecostal minister was invited for Sunday dinner. Their prize was to convert me. We would debate religion for hours. 42 years later, I am a Christian, thought neither Catholic nor Pentecostal.

Religion is the antithesis of Godliness IMHO. Jesus would be sick to see what has been done in his name.

About twenty-five years ago, I ran into a now-deceased aunt in a department store. I asked her how she had enjoyed her Thanksgiving. She said, "I have a son who was recently born-again and daughter who has become Mormon. We have to negotiate Grace. The only thing I gave thanks for was that they all went home early."

When a plane crashed killing many, but leaving many alive, among the people onboard was a family of 4; husband, wife, son and daughter. The wife and her daughter both died, while the husband and his son wound up in the hospital. A TV newsman asked the man a question, but rather than answer, the man responded with "first I have to thank God for saving my son and me." When asked how he felt about his wife and daughter dying while he and his son survived, "who are we to question God's ways?"

Then there was the man interviewed after his wife, who had been using fertility drugs, gave birth to 7 children. "How do you feel being a father of 7 children?"

"Before I say anything else, I have to thank the good Lord..."

No!! The good Lord did not want his wife to have children. That's why she was infertile.

Those people were not at all :mad: , right?

:clap2:

I personally think any belief is based on faith. Even if you don't believe in God, you have "faith" that He is not real. I, for one, am saved by grace and believe that I will spend eternity in Heaven. You may question all you want, but the fact remains, I have faith this is true.

I was thinking today of something that was shared with me many years ago.....there is not a person alive that has seen the wind. We've all seen what wind does. We've all seen the effects of wind. We've never SEEN the wind. That is how I base my faith. I have seen the effects the Lord has in my life and the lives of others. It is my faith.

Life is what we make it. Whether or not there is an actual influence in our choices or the outcome in our lives by God, who knows? But I guess the day will come for all of us to find out when it is our time to leave this plane for another, if there is another. Some people believe in God, some people believe there is no God. Who are any of us to argue with what the next person believes in? Is it good to believe in something greater than ourselves, I think so. Is there life after death, I do believe there is, and really hope I am right since my mom is there and I hold onto the belief we will see each other again. Whether or not I am right is irrelevant. It personally gives me comfort and that is what matters "for me". If you feel comfort with your belief in the lord, no matter how you see him or what you call him. Or if you feel comfort not believing there is a God, so be it. which ever you believe and is good for you, will see you through all of your obstacles and accomplishments in life and that is relevant. I think the real meaning behind the original post was a distaste for hate and anger and how it was being expressed (I missed whatever happened prior), but I have to agree. Because both hate and anger are wasteful and will rob us from joy that we deserve to feel. Since we are all on this lap-band board forum, I think we can all agree we have been robbed of joy for much too long due to our struggles with weight. Lets not waste anymore time with negativity and get on with all of your succsess stories, I know they bring me hope and bring me closer to my dicision to get banded. I also just wanted to share a quote with you all that I try very hard to live by, so here it goes:

"Life is ten percent what happens to you and ninety percent how you respond to it."

"Life is ten percent what happens to you and ninety percent how you respond to it."

Now THAT is the most intelligent, most level headed, most got-it-togehter thing I have heard in months! Bravo!!

Spritual people have faith that there is someone or something of a higher being that takes care of them (I don't mean like ET *snicker*) I mean something heavenly (powerful, light). I think as long as you have faith in something, then your okay. (it could even be yourself-covering all basis here) its not healthy to think that there is no brighter future. We all need a positive source without one, we might as well curl up in a ball and call it a day.

It shouldn't matter that we don't all believe in the same thing (which is totally impossible anyway) We should be happy that there are forces that make others happy too. There is no wrong belief...to say that we would be saying that one is not a person and has no validity in life.

Faith is very important. I would never want to take faith from anyone, nor try to break their faith by logic or showing contradictions in their faith.

However, no one has the right to claim his/her faith any more valid than the next person's. If you have faith that you are on the correct path to eternal life with your God, you do not have the right to tell another person who has faith that they are on the correct path to eternal life with their God (or who worship the same God as you, but in a different way), that only your faith is true. If you want to feel it and believe it, fine. But do not put down other people's faith any more than you would want them to put your faith down. It is the "Golden Rule".

Many people say, "Money is the root of all evil". They are wrong. "The Love of Money is the root of all evil".

Many people say, "Never discuss religion". I believe they are wrong. "Never try to convince anyone that your faith is better than their faith" would be more appropriate. I have spent much of the last 7 years speaking to people in person and through forums about religion. It has caused me to listen and to go to the Bible to verify or disprove what was said. I had read the Bible cover to cover, first when 17 and then about 19 to 20. I started reading it much more while talking to people about religion.

I then read the "Holy Qur'an". It was illuminating. I am reading "Purpose Driven Life" by Rick Warren right now. I am attending church regularly for the first time in 40 years. Why? Because I got interested in religion by talking about it.

I found that many people of faith know the Bible very well.

I found that many people of faith don't know the Bible very well or at all.

I found that many people of faith take the Bible and use it for very unchristian behavior.

I found that many people of faith who claimed to be Christian only knew the "Old Testament" or at least only quoted the "Old Testament".

I found that many people of faith who claimed to be Christian never practiced the teachings of Jesus Christ, but claimed that they had a personal relationship with him.

I found that many people of faith who claimed to be Christian really acted towards other people in the way that Jesus wanted us to act towards people.

But most of all, I found that only by reading and talking could I have found these things out. I never had to put down anyone's God. I did many times question the use of their claims that only their faith was correct. I even chastised people who said that all believers of this protestant sect or all Roman Catholics or all Jews or all Muslims would go to hell for not believing in the ways of their (only true and correct) way of worshiping (their only true God).

I have had people tell me that they are not condemning those people to hell, “it is in the Bible. It is word for word in the Bible". When I look up the passage, it does not say that "word for word". When I tell them that, they say "well what that means is..." Sorry, that is an interpretation, their interpretation, not "word for word".

The Bible and/or the "Holy Qur'an" can be read as "word for word" or it can be read as stories to help you in your life and help you gain eternity. Some people call me a "Cafeteria Christian" because I don't believe in certain things in the Bible, but then when I ask them about certain passages, they say that the passage doesn't mean what it says "word for word" or that was replaced by the "New testament".

My point is that there is more than enough Bible interpretation to last for a few millennia. Faith is wonderful, except when used to put other people's faith down. I believe that was the idea behind the post that started this thread.

TOM

PS: When I used the word "you" above, it was rhetorical and not addressed to anyone.

We're not in Kansas anymore....

"Life is ten percent what happens to you and ninety percent how you respond to it."

Now THAT is the most intelligent, most level headed, most got-it-togehter thing I have heard in months! Bravo!!

FYI.. That is a quote from Chuck Swindoll... A christian author and preacher

I don't think we're in Kansas anymore .:clap2: