I am probably going to open a whole new can worms here. I might regret opening later, but some of the topics being discussed really got me thinking about things. One of the things said that really kind of got me going on this was:

Pattygreen: Christians (usually conservative republicans) for the most part try to live moral, virtuous, nonsinful lives.

I am not a Christian and I live a moral, virtuous, and for the most part nonsinful life. I know several people who live the same, and are not Christian, and have conservative beliefs.

Cleo's Mom: First of all, "conservative republican" is redundant, because they are all conservative. I don't think there are any moderate republicans left particularly among those elected to office.

However, I just wonder if it is MORAL to mislead or outright lie, because listen to what these conservative republicans have said:

Dana Perino said on Fox: We did not have a domestic attack during bush's administration.

A month later Mary Matalin said: bush inherited 9/11 from Clinton.

Yesterday, Rudy Giuliani said that we never had a domestic attack under bush but we had one under Obama.

Now, I ask you - do these people think the American public is really that stupid? Apparently. Those on the right just make things up and keep repeating it. And when they repeat it often enough eventually some people begin to believe it.

They reduce things to some emotional, hate filled sound bite: death panels, obamacare, socialism, hitler, nazi.

This is because they are unable to engage in meaningful, intelligent, fact-based discussions. Maybe they don't want to do that because they don't have the facts on their side.

First I am a moderate Republican. I do tend to lean a little more to the right, but on some issues I lean to the left. Some things I can lean pretty right, and others I lean pretty far left. It really depends on the issue. I'd like to think that would make me moderate. I know many people who are moderate Republicans also. So we are still out there. There are some politicians who are still moderate also.

Second just because you are a Republican does not mean that you can not have a intelligent, meaningful, fact-based conversation. That is like saying liberals have their heads in clouds and live in fantasy nerf world filled with rainbows and butterflies.

Both sides sling mud back and forth. Both sides have their hate filled idiots. Both sides have their good and bad points. Both sides LIE, LIE, and LIE some more.

I get so sick and tired of hearing about how the Republicans have screwed everything up...I mean really they did it all alone.....no help from the left at all???

I personally feel that if you lean too far left or right you can't have a very grip on reality, and when our politicans lean too far left or right it's not good for our country either way. I hope someday too see more moderate politicans in office.

I don't expect teachers to work for Half their salaries! I expect them to stop bellyaching about not getting a raise when they are already making PLENTY enough money, when we are in a recession and just about every working person out there did not get a raise last year or this year! That's what I expect! I said, "If they "really" cared about the kids" and if that was the real reason for their complaint, they'd work for half the salary "for the 'children' ."If you really cared about your patients, would you work for half your salary "for the patients"? YOU HAVEN'T ANSWERED THIS YET.

Are you really that dense???!!! I would NOT work for half my salary, And I don't expect teachers to either, DUH! It was a figure of speech. "If they "really" cared about the kids, then they'd work for half their pay" (you know, quit belly aching about not getting a raise when EVERYONE else in the country didn't get one this year either!!! What the heck don't you get about that!?

But let me add one more thing. I make $15.00 an hour where I work. If they told me that they had to lower my wage to $7.50 (half) in order to keep their doors open, I would work for half. Why? Because jobs are hard to find right now and because I like my job, and because it's all they could afford to pay me. I would not be happy with that, but I would still work for that wage. Now, my company isn't going to ask me to work for half pay and NO ONE asked teachers to work for half pay, they only asked them NOT TO GET A RAISE THIS YEAR TO HELP THE BUDGET! AND every teacher out there is able to go and look for a job somewhere else if they are not happy with their pay.

But let me add one more thing. I make $15.00 an hour where I work. If they told me that they had to lower my wage to $7.50 (half) in order to keep their doors open, I would work for half. Why? Because jobs are hard to find right now and because I like my job, and because it's all they could afford to pay me. I would not be happy with that, but I would still work for that wage. Now, my company isn't going to ask me to work for half pay and NO ONE asked teachers to work for half pay, they only asked them NOT TO GET A RAISE THIS YEAR TO HELP THE BUDGET! AND every teacher out there is able to go and look for a job somewhere else if they are not happy with their pay.

I wouldn't work for half pay, I am a quality worker who deserves to be paid properly. I would get a job somewhere else.

Are you really that dense???!!! I would NOT work for half my salary, And I don't expect teachers to either, DUH! It was a figure of speech. "If they "really" cared about the kids, then they'd work for half their pay" (you know, quit belly aching about not getting a raise when EVERYONE else in the country didn't get one this year either!!! What the heck don't you get about that!?

YOU make a stupid statement like that -that you now cannot support and you call me dense? The problem is not that you think I'm dense, which I'm not, the problem is that I never let you get away with your bulls**t.

Edited June 5, 201016 yr by Cleo's Mom

This is my issue, as a teacher, with teacher pay. I have a BS degee in elementary education, with a minor in ESL. I have a master's in curriculum and instruction. I make a whopping $29,000/year,

Where do you live? Maybe you should consider a move, cause in CT, depending on which town you live in, they make between $64,000. and up to $84,000.

and spend about $3,000-$5,000 a year out of pocket.

This spending is your choice. It is not required of you. If you can't afford it, you shouldn't be doing it. Teachers should not give their money away, no matter how well intentioned, and then complain about their pay.

On what, you might ask? I buy Cereal and keep it for kids who come without Breakfast. I buy mittens for those who can't afford them. I buy art materials because our school can't afford them. I buy books for my students (for my in class library). If students show an interest in a subject, I buy books on a variety of reading levels, just so they can get "into" reading. I buy materials to teach math and science so my kids aren't just readin the chapter and answering the questions at the end. I LOVE my job. I LOVE my kids.

This is very nice of you, but Maybe you could consider sending notices around your community asking for donated books, mittens and boxes of cereal. Our grade K teacher asks each child to bring in 1 box of tissue for her class and she uses them all year.

I have spent around $100,000 on my degrees to make $29,000 a year ($24,000 after taxes).

My son spent $42,000. on his career field, computer technology, and he can't even get a job. Be thankful. Do you know how many people went to college and can't get jobs in their field?

My brother, who barely (and I mean barely) passed high school makes $60,000 a year driving a truck.

Just because others make more than you doesn't mean that you deserve a raise this year. People get a raise if their employers can afford to give them. The tax payers are your employer, and we are BROKE!

People beg for highly educated, passionate teachers. And yet the pay they offer suggest otherwise.

Like I said, most teachers in this country make much, much more than you do. You're making $558. a week. That's decent paycheck. If you're not happy with your pay, you can always tutor on the side. Many people have to take on side jobs these days to get by.

My point is that when the rest of the country is sacrificing and forgoing their raises, teachers are no better then the rest of us. They need to forgo their raises as well. I feel the same way about government employees of any kind. The private sector, who pays these government employees, have to give up alot in this recession, and so should those on our payrolls.(government jobs)

I wouldn't work for half pay, I am a quality worker who deserves to be paid properly. I would get a job somewhere else.

Not if there weren't any jobs out there!

You shouldn't have to drive a truck to make $60,000 but we don't value those who care for others - like teachers, child care workers, nurses, police officers, social workers, etc..

We value corporate america, sports figures and the entertainment industry. Oh, and yes, those idiots on conservative tv and radio who are buffoons but have bigger buffoons who listen to them. :thumbup:

I certainly don't think that sports players should be making more than anyone else, cause it's just a game they play, but it is not anyones business to say who others should value or not. I know that Cleo's would love to be able to regulate that, but she can't!:tt2:

I certainly don't think that sports players should be making more than anyone else, cause it's just a game they play, but it is not anyones business to say who others should value or not. I know that Cleo's would love to be able to regulate that, but she can't!:thumbup:

What and who we value as a society is everyone's business because it is what drives the economy. :tt2:

From: Robert Reich, former Secretary of Labor,now a professor at Berkeley. June 4, 2010

Why are we having such a hard time getting free of the Great Recession? Because consumers, who constitute 70 percent of the economy, don't have the dough. They can't any longer treat their homes as ATMs, as they did before the Great Recession.

Businesses won't rehire if there's not enough demand for their goods and services.

The only reason the economy isn't in a double-dip recession already is because of three temporary boosts: the federal stimulus (of which 75 percent has been spent), near-zero interest rates (which can't continue much longer without igniting speculative bubbles), and replacements (consumers have had to replace worn-out cars and appliances, and businesses had to replace worn-down inventories). Oh, and, yes, all those Census workers (who will be out on their ears in a month or so).

But all these boosts will end soon. Then we're in the dip.

Retail sales are already down.

So what's the answer? In the short term, more stimulus -- especially extended unemployment benefits and aid to state and local governments that are whacking schools and social services because they can't run deficits.

But the deficit crazies in the Senate,(they're not just in the Senate, they're the teabaggers and those who support them) who can't seem to differentiate between short-term stimulus (necessary) and long-term debt (bad) last week shot it down.

In the longer term, we need a new New Deal that will bolster America's floundering middle class. Expand the Earned Income Tax Credit and extend it up through the middle class. Finance that extension through higher marginal income taxes on the wealthy, who have never had it so good. Boy, that's for sure! It's about time for them to start paying their fair share and stop living off the middle class.

Like I said, most teachers in this country make much, much more than you do. You're making $558. a week. That's decent paycheck. If you're not happy with your pay, you can always tutor on the side. Many people have to take on side jobs these days to get by.

My point is that when the rest of the country is sacrificing and forgoing their raises, teachers are no better then the rest of us. They need to forgo their raises as well. I feel the same way about government employees of any kind. The private sector, who pays these government employees, have to give up alot in this recession, and so should those on our payrolls.(government jobs)

Don't you think I would move if I could? I would be making well over $40,000 a year if we lived in our home state of Texas. However my husband is in the airforce, and we are stationed here. He is also not getting a raise this year. We are barely above the poverty line. He is working over 70 hours a week and doesn't get bonuses or overtime. The military tells him to work 14 hour days, 6 days a week, and he does it.

I've asked for donations from parents, but guess what? I don't get anything. I work in a title I school, which means most parents can't afford to pay for their kids' lunch, let alone books for the class or mittens for other students. I work long and hard, well beyond the 8a-3p most people think teachers "only" work. I've worked weekends and holidays, preparing lessons, grading, making home visits to kids to make sure they aren't getting into to trouble over the summer (especially important when they are living with drug dealers). Please tell me what other job you are expected to invest so much time, money (both in the classroom and before in education), love and passion and then paid crap? Why are CEOs, congress, jocks and celebrities given the "ok" to get multi million dollar paychecks and raises (often to themselves) but teachers and the military (and I'm sure many other professions, those are just the closest to home) are expected to "suck it up" or look elsewhere?

Look at the statistics in pattygreen's home state. Wow! That median salary is huge!! And the median price of a home - again - wow! They can and should pay their teachers what they do because they are getting a lot of bang for their buck.

Teaching salary summary page for the state of Connecticut

Salary range: $40,973 - $90,998

Average teacher salary: $58,688

Average beginning teacher salary: $40,657

Median household income: $77,452.20

Median house price: $254,700

Per-Pupil Spending: $10,001

Cents spent on benefits for every dollar paid as salary: 27.1¢

Cost of living calculator

Cost of living analysis

Grade:

Summary:

Connecticut is one of the richest states in US with casinos growing into massive entertainment facilities annually bringing in millions of visitors and kept money pumping in to the coffers of the government. The impact of the gaming industry created employment, on time response to teacher’s salary hike and health care. It brings less than $430 million each year to Connecticut’s general fund. The state’s high teacher’s salary scale made them constantly ranked among the top ten in the nation’s overall survey on teaching salaries for years. Connecticut was even named as the smartest state by private research and publishing group Morgan Quitno Press being observed as having the strictest requirements for teachers yet able to provide the highest salary. They are the envy of the nation having been included in the top ranked women’s college basketball program and schools. Connecticut wisely uses local education foundation to improve public education. Local citizens take their part in improving education in their area by forming nonprofit organizations who aims to create fundraising programs to support local schools. The state’s utilization of human resources has put them to an edge with other states. Local communities had established rapport with school boards and school administration in an aggressive pursuit to community development. The raise in teachers salaries are also being negotiated between the school board and teachers representatives. Connecticut teachers’ proposals for classroom materials are also being answered by their donors through the website DonorsChoose.org run by a nonprofit organization whose mission is to match teachers through the site with philanthropist who want to get involve simply by donating in kind. Connecticut’s economy depends on the teaching effectiveness of their public schools and they were right on the track with their organization and community building to achieve the demands of the business world from their graduates.

Looks like the teachers are doing a great job and have the right to expect to be justly compensated.

I wish we had casinos or even a state lottery, as a good chunk of the profits goes to schools. All we have here are tons of LDS churches.

patty if you're stop rolling your eyes maybe you'd read and learn.

As for that essay you forwarded to us I have a response to that former Marine who is tired. No doubt he is tired and he's very confused too. Here goes...

All your yapping about Kerry, you're as much of a little sheep as your tea baggin' friends. Did you pay any attention when it came out that the mega wealthy guys who funded the anti-Kerry campaign lied? No, obviously you didn't. And in spite of that you're willing to jump on the Republican bandwagon and impune the reputation of a decorated American soldier. You can do that without a guilty conscience? What a guy.

Did you do your homework on just how often George W. Bush actually put on his uniform? No, obviously you didn't. If you had you wouldn't be bringing up his name in a discussion of men who have served this country honorably.

You're tired because the corporate big wigs have sucked you dry after you put in all his long hours of work your whole life. The government doesn't have the bulk of the wealth your worried about paying them. The corporatations that your government helps subsidize and the stuff you purchase that those corporations make is where the biggest portion of your wealth goes. And very often they don't even make it here in the United States.

And you have a small carbon foot print by owning two homes? Get real buster. You're just as big a consumer as everybody else and you're whining because you don't want your life of luxury to be changed to save our environment. Blame that on Al Gore? What a cop out!

You Marines think the whole world owes you something because you went off to war. Well, by your logic you need to stop sucking the government teat, forego your military retirement and thank the rest of us for giving you a job in the military sector where you got paid and medical was taken care of for you and your family and your groceries and merchandise were discounted and probably still are.

Your bitterness against the Democrats is wholly unfounded. You need to quitcher whining and get back to work because since your Republican dominated government has favored the wealthy for so long it has made it imperative that even after age 63, dude, you're going to have to keep working!!!

Edited June 5, 201016 yr by BJean

When I see these old, stooped over people bagging groceries I look at them and think "that's the republican's retirement plan for the rest of us".

What and who we value as a society is everyone's business because it is what drives the economy. :thumbup:

YOU can't tell ANYONE who to value! If I choose not to 'value' sports players, that's my business. And if I choose not to 'value' movie stars, that's my business. No one can tell others who to value. That's my point.