I am probably going to open a whole new can worms here. I might regret opening later, but some of the topics being discussed really got me thinking about things. One of the things said that really kind of got me going on this was:

Pattygreen: Christians (usually conservative republicans) for the most part try to live moral, virtuous, nonsinful lives.

I am not a Christian and I live a moral, virtuous, and for the most part nonsinful life. I know several people who live the same, and are not Christian, and have conservative beliefs.

Cleo's Mom: First of all, "conservative republican" is redundant, because they are all conservative. I don't think there are any moderate republicans left particularly among those elected to office.

However, I just wonder if it is MORAL to mislead or outright lie, because listen to what these conservative republicans have said:

Dana Perino said on Fox: We did not have a domestic attack during bush's administration.

A month later Mary Matalin said: bush inherited 9/11 from Clinton.

Yesterday, Rudy Giuliani said that we never had a domestic attack under bush but we had one under Obama.

Now, I ask you - do these people think the American public is really that stupid? Apparently. Those on the right just make things up and keep repeating it. And when they repeat it often enough eventually some people begin to believe it.

They reduce things to some emotional, hate filled sound bite: death panels, obamacare, socialism, hitler, nazi.

This is because they are unable to engage in meaningful, intelligent, fact-based discussions. Maybe they don't want to do that because they don't have the facts on their side.

First I am a moderate Republican. I do tend to lean a little more to the right, but on some issues I lean to the left. Some things I can lean pretty right, and others I lean pretty far left. It really depends on the issue. I'd like to think that would make me moderate. I know many people who are moderate Republicans also. So we are still out there. There are some politicians who are still moderate also.

Second just because you are a Republican does not mean that you can not have a intelligent, meaningful, fact-based conversation. That is like saying liberals have their heads in clouds and live in fantasy nerf world filled with rainbows and butterflies.

Both sides sling mud back and forth. Both sides have their hate filled idiots. Both sides have their good and bad points. Both sides LIE, LIE, and LIE some more.

I get so sick and tired of hearing about how the Republicans have screwed everything up...I mean really they did it all alone.....no help from the left at all???

I personally feel that if you lean too far left or right you can't have a very grip on reality, and when our politicans lean too far left or right it's not good for our country either way. I hope someday too see more moderate politicans in office.

More republican hypocrisy:

2000: Rep. David Vitter introduces a bill to limit oil companies' criminal liability .

2010: Sen. David Vitter's statement: "I thank U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder for taking steps to open criminal and civil investigations into the causes of the oil spill."

I cringed when I heard that BP guy say that on the news yesterday. It's a clear illustration of what I said earlier about corporations having no conscience. BP and their cronies tried to shift the blame to each other and the right wing is trying to score political points on the blood of those poor guys who died on the rig. They're all a disgrace. :biggrin:

My third mantra: And these are the people some of you want more of in congress? :biggrin:

House Democrats are home for a long Memorial Day break with a gift-wrapped wedge issue delivered just in time for district campaigning. One of their final actions before adjourning late Friday was

passing a measure that would strip tax breaks for companies that ship jobs overseas

by a 215-204 vote.

talkingpointsmemo.com

The Grand Outsourcing Party. Expect Dems to run on this come election time.

More brilliance below the fold.

That's right, in the pursuit of that shiny object of tax cuts for Corporations (even Corporations that outsource jobs!) every Republican House Rep except Joesph Cao of Louisiana and the average 35 Blue Dogs decided that companies that outsource jobs amidst near 10% unemployment is more of something we MUST have, and they MUST be rewarded with tax cuts!

After standing with the insurance companies, the big banks, wall street and the oil companies, now it's time for the GOP to stand with those who outsource american jobs. But hey, they support the 2nd amendment and oppose abortion. Tell me again how that pays the bills?

Edited June 3, 201016 yr by Cleo's Mom

We lived in Petersburg, Virginia, south of Richmond over 30 years ago. The cigarette companies, Brown & Williamson, Raleigh, etc., so polluted the air you could hardly breathe. Dow and Dupont chemical companies and others polluted the river so badly that for many years you could not eat the fish that came from the river or Chesapeake Bay area.

So environmentalists caused the government to clean it all up, right? I mean some of the regs were in place but the coprorations just ignored them and dealt with the paltry fines. I haven't been back in years and I don't know what the situation is now. I am sure some of it has been cleaned up but there seems to be no end to the dishonest and irresponsible way corporations do business in the U.S. And why you ask? Because we allow it. We allow it because we value the money we make working for them and buying their stock on wallstreet and we value the products that they sell us more than we value a pristine environment.

It reminds me of the immigration problem. It's impossible to blame the immigrants themselves because we virtually invite them here with the policies we ignore. We ignore tham because we value the jobs that immigrants do that make companies money and we value the products that they provide at prices we like.

As long as we're part of the problem there will never be a solution. As long as Republicans lie and cloud the real issues with emotionally charged issues like abortion and separation of church and state and taxes and welfare, we're doomed to more of the same: life that becomes less and less healthy by the year. We're now looking at a generation that will not live longer than their parents.

We have so many problems in the U.S. that people are retiring to other countries in record numbers. And let me tell you, it is very tempting to think about doing that very thing. Why not live in a country that has cleaner air and water? Why not live in a country where your limited retirement income can buy you a decent home and fresh food that hasn't been loaded with preservatives and shipped from other countries? Why not live where there's no gas or oil wells putting out unhealthy emissions in the air we breathe? Why not live a simpler life - one without the idea that you must have a better car than your neighbor and a bigger television and more expensive clothes? Why not live where you can walk or take public transit rather than jumping in your car everytime you need something? Why not live without freaking Walmart whose shelves are filled with products (often unsafe products) made in China? China, the very country we are indebted to for a war that should never have been waged.

And what happens when we discover that dog food from China is laced with poisonous residue? Or toys made with lead paint? Or baby formula that has melamine in it disguised as protein? We refuse to accept products from a country like that, right? No. We don't. We might get rid of the stuff when we discover it, but our importing of goods from China hasn't stopped. We're too beholden to them.

America used to be the best place to live in the world. The best place for middle income folks. Good people. Hard workers. People who made up the majority of our population. Well those numbers of middle income people has shrunk drastically. And what about the wealthy? Those numbers grew by unprecedented numbers under the Republicans. More billionaires - BILLIONAIRES - than anyone would have thought possible in double the amount of time it took. And the poor? Those numbers are growing too.

I like what the president said about corporate America. Let's just wait and see if it causes any improvement. I have my doubts but I hope and pray that I am wrong.

BJean: Ed Schultz just wrote a book called "Killer Politics" - it's on my list to buy. It's about how the middle class is being destroyed in this country.

But as an aside - as someone who has never lived more than 15 miles from where I was born, I am interested in all the places you have lived. Would you mind listing them and maybe telling what you liked and didn't like about each.

You will be graded on content, punctuation, and spelling. LOL. :biggrin:

BJean:

I like what the president said about corporate America. Let's just wait and see if it causes any improvement. I have my doubts but I hope and pray that I am wrong.

I like what he said about the republicans turning a surplus into a deficit and how they only have two solutions to every problems: (1) more tax cuts for the rich

(2) fewer regulations for corporations

Oh my goodness... grade me if you must. I will tell you that the idea of listing all the places we've lived sounds like a fun exercise. I haven't thought about many of them in quite some time.

Born in Las Vegas, Nevada. Too young to form an opinion.

Then I've lived in these places in this order:

1) Tulsa Oklahoma, I consider Tulsa my hometown and it was a very pretty place, rolling hills with very genuinely sweet people.

2) Petersburg Virginia, very closed community with an unreal sense of their own importance probably due to reading about themselves in the history books. Still stuck in the Civil War mentality. However I worked in Richmond and found those people to be much more open and everyone was extremely good to me. Very southern!

3) Sierra Vista Arizona, incredibly beautiful desert mountain scenery and a climate that totally agreed with me. I continue to love high desert as my favorite climate.

4) Norfolk Virginia, discrimination problems but lots of historical and interesting surroundings.

5) Sierra Vista Arizona, same as above.

6) Tulsa Oklahoma, returning was interesting. Politics had changed considerably making it a less fun place to live.

7) Chantilly Virginia, one of my favorite times of my life. Lots and lots of histoical things to see and do, lots of good continuing educational opportunities, lots of natural beauty. And everyone I met had an opinion and seemed intelligent.

8) Orlando Florida, God didn't mean for humans to live in a climate like Orlando's. The bugs and critters were interesting but no fun to live with. However I did have a bob cat that lived behind my house and it was a beauty. I became very involved in philanthropic endeavors which fortunately kept me mostly inside.

9) Montreal Canada, a totally awesome experience. Learned to snow ski and cross country ski and walked the hills of Montreal enjoying the beautiful British section of town. People were very high on themselves and low on English speakers for the most part. Silly politics. Incredible places to eat, drink and be merry. Fabulous views from my downtown apartment on the 18th floor of a high rise.

10) Orlando Florida, back again :-(

11) Colleyville Texas, neat little berg. Nice people, beautiful homes, but too noisy.

12) Haslet Texas, too far out, too quiet. A little too Nascar if you know what I mean.

13) Ft. Worth Texas, husband's hometown. Much like Tulsa in many ways. I'm ready to go whenever he says lets move on. Good Canasta group except for the women's extremist political views.

TMI? That'll teach you not to get me started! Ha.

Now tell me what it's like to live in the same place all your life. I honestly can't imagine going to the store and running into my 3rd grade teacher.

Now I'm trying to decide where I'd like to live next. I have always loved the mountains. Have you ever heard of Cuchara Colorado? It's a tiny little berg that has the most amazing mountain vistas. But I'll probably just stay planted in Texas. Although the political climate is terrible and I would love to be in California or Colorado. Santa Fe would work too though. And I loved Canada and the Adirondack (misspelled?) mountains would be awesome.

Oh my goodness... grade me if you must. I will tell you that the idea of listing all the places we've lived sounds like a fun exercise. I haven't thought about many of them in quite some time.

Born in Las Vegas, Nevada. Too young to form an opinion.

Then I've lived in these places in this order:

1) Tulsa Oklahoma, I consider Tulsa my hometown and it was a very pretty place, rolling hills with very genuinely sweet people.

2) Petersburg Virginia, very closed community with an unreal sense of their own importance probably due to reading about themselves in the history books. Still stuck in the Civil War mentality. However I worked in Richmond and found those people to be much more open and everyone was extremely good to me. Very southern!

3) Sierra Vista Arizona, incredibly beautiful desert mountain scenery and a climate that totally agreed with me. I continue to love high desert as my favorite climate.

4) Norfolk Virginia, discrimination problems but lots of historical and interesting surroundings.

5) Sierra Vista Arizona, same as above.

6) Tulsa Oklahoma, returning was interesting. Politics had changed considerably making it a less fun place to live.

7) Chantilly Virginia, one of my favorite times of my life. Lots and lots of histoical things to see and do, lots of good continuing educational opportunities, lots of natural beauty. And everyone I met had an opinion and seemed intelligent.

8) Orlando Florida, God didn't mean for humans to live in a climate like Orlando's. The bugs and critters were interesting but no fun to live with. However I did have a bob cat that lived behind my house and it was a beauty. I became very involved in philanthropic endeavors which fortunately kept me mostly inside.

9) Montreal Canada, a totally awesome experience. Learned to snow ski and cross country ski and walked the hills of Montreal enjoying the beautiful British section of town. People were very high on themselves and low on English speakers for the most part. Silly politics. Incredible places to eat, drink and be merry. Fabulous views from my downtown apartment on the 18th floor of a high rise.

10) Orlando Florida, back again :-(

11) Colleyville Texas, neat little berg. Nice people, beautiful homes, but too noisy.

12) Haslet Texas, too far out, too quiet. A little too Nascar if you know what I mean.

13) Ft. Worth Texas, husband's hometown. Much like Tulsa in many ways. I'm ready to go whenever he says lets move on. Good Canasta group except for the women's extremist political views.

TMI? That'll teach you not to get me started! Ha.

Now tell me what it's like to live in the same place all your life. I honestly can't imagine going to the store and running into my 3rd grade teacher.

Now I'm trying to decide where I'd like to live next. I have always loved the mountains. Have you ever heard of Cuchara Colorado? It's a tiny little berg that has the most amazing mountain vistas. But I'll probably just stay planted in Texas. Although the political climate is terrible and I would love to be in California or Colorado. Santa Fe would work too though. And I loved Canada and the Adirondack (misspelled?) mountains would be awesome.

Thanks, BJean. You get an A+. Very interesting reading. I don't live in the town where I was born. I am in the next county over so I really don't run into people from my childhood. I think my grade school teachers would all be dead by now anyway.

I live in the Pgh. area but not in its county and that makes a world of difference politically. My county is very redneck and despite a 2-1 democratic registration advantage votes republican. Being the president of the democratic club is a challenge, as well as a county committewoman. I have to travel into the Pgh. area and county to see another Obama bumper sticker. That is where my daughter and her husband (and new baby -yeah) live. And I always kid her about that. We go shopping and I will see cars with Obama bumper stickers. If I see one where I live I assume they are lost or visiting. LOL.

But the whole state of PA has been summed up this way: Pgh. in the west, Philly in the east and Arkansas in the middle. A conservative state to be sure, but it did go blue in 2008. Pittsburgh is a city with a small town mentality. Not very progressive. A liberal woman who had a talk radio show here for a while, who came from Milwaukee, said she had cultural shock when she came here - where were all the women in power positions she wanted to know, etc..

My husband and I went on a vacation to Colorado in 2000. Fort Collins. I loved it. I committed a major breach of Pgh. vacationing rules that says you must go to the beach each summer. I hate the beach. I loved their weather, blue skies, hot but not humid, like it is in Pgh. And you do NOT come to Pgh. for the weather. Grey, rainy, grey, snowy, grey everything. And that includes a huge aging population - one of the nation's largest.

Anyway, thanks for the interesting read. Why do you move so often? Jobs?

You know, I try to read Fox News as well as others just so I do get both sides of the story but it is such lies its hard to take. Here is the link I clicked on from the AOL news page.

Success — BP Cuts Pipe,Moving to Install 'Cap'

Success means its handled right? No.

"BP used giant shears to slice off a pipe Thursday in the company's latest bid to contain the Gulf of Mexico oil, but the cut was irregular and placing the cap will now be more challenging, Allen said."

"We'll have to see when we get the containment cap on it just how effective it is," Allen said. "It will be a test and adapt phase as we move ahead, but it's a significant step forward."

"Even if it works, BP engineers expect oil to continue leaking into the ocean.

The next chance to stop the flow won't come until two relief wells meant to plug the reservoir for good are finished in August."

Once again the republicans declare, "Mission Accomplished"

Typical neocon idea that if no PERSON lives in the area of an oil spill it is less severe. What about the ocean, marine and land animals? Not to mention other aspects of our delicate ecology. I guess they don't count.

I didn't say they don't count.

I said this: where noone lives and would be as severely effected by an accident such as this.

They would be affected, just not as severely as humans are affected.

Just 41.9% of the nation's personal income in the first quarter came from private sector wages, a record low; 27.7 % came from Social Security, welfare and other government giveaways, a record high. America is fast approaching the point where there are more people living off the government than paying for it. Moreover, The bureau of Economic Ananylsis reports income from all sources in the first quarter worked out to an annual rate of $12.2 trillion. The national debt just exceeded $13 trillion for the first time and is expected to grow by more than $1 trillion a year for at least the next decade. These trends, described by Hoover Institution economic analyst David Henderson as people being "paid for being rather than for producing," are unsustainable.

Let's just keep on spending Washington!!!!

Just 41.9% of the nation's personal income in the first quarter came from private sector wages, a record low; 27.7 % came from Social Security, welfare and other government giveaways, a record high. America is fast approaching the point where there are more people living off the government than paying for it. Moreover, The bureau of Economic Ananylsis reports income from all sources in the first quarter worked out to an annual rate of $12.2 trillion. The national debt just exceeded $13 trillion for the first time and is expected to grow by more than $1 trillion a year for at least the next decade. These trends, described by Hoover Institution economic analyst David Henderson as people being "paid for being rather than for producing," are unsustainable. Let's just keep on spending Washington!!!!

You bet your sweet life it's unsustainable. And that's why you should wise up and get behind your president and congress and stop allowing those self-serving, greedy, corporate driven Republicans influence your thinking.

We didn't get in this mess because of any other kind of welfare but corporate welfare. I absolutely do not understand why you keep adding two plus two and getting seven. It is not that complicated. But it's also not as simple as Republicans want you to believe - that the reason we have such an enormous deficit is because of the help we give needy people. For you to keep acting like that is the problem only proves that you are being sucked in by the corporate political machine. :Dancing_biggrin:

Cleo's sounds like you are a driving force in your community for the party. I'm impressed. I always talked about getting politically involved but I am too big a chicken to go public when I live in such a Republican, Tea bagging community. Besides my DH is the force in this house.

And yes, we moved because of jobs.

Thanks for letting us see a little glimpse of where you live. Guess there are red neckersons everywhere!

Cleo's/Bjean:

I'm originally from PA too! I now live in Montana. Still plenty of pristine wilderness here. Logging and mining have caused some damage though. One of the biggest EPA Superfund sites is in Butte MT from a copper mine. Now they're trying to drill oil wells in a fragile grizzly bear habitat in a wilderness area in Western Montana. So, far we've kept them out.

PG:

The Stimulus Bill and bailouts wouldn't have been necessary if big financial institutions hadn't driven the economy into the dirt. That happened on Bush's watch now Obama has to fix it. Though the Republicans criticize the Stim Bill they take credit for bringing all this good money to their states. We had eight years of party hearty under the Republicans and now we're all having to pay for it. Sure didn't stop the fat cats from getting their big bonuses though. Starting an unnecessary war didn't help our pocketbooks either. Sure helped Haliburton though. If I had a choice of whether to give food stamps to a single mother who can't afford childcare or to give millions to wealthy corporations, it's a no brainer.