Apple1

3 hours ago, Rainbow_Warrior said:

This (IF) applied to changing the gut "chemistry" was the subject of three one-hour science/medicine specials over three weeks (in Australia). Its final part was today.

There is a great body of supportive evidence.

I'll post some links in the next 24-36 hours.

That special sounds very interesting. Do you know the name of it? I wonder if it is possible to view it online? Thank you for posting about it.

2 minutes ago, Newme17 said:

YW! I’d rather have the actual chair though but the disc might work out just fine (and cheaper!).

LOL, the first thought that popped in my head when I saw that photo is does the ball make loud noises if you pass gas??

That looks interesting. I have never seen anything like it. I'm gonna go check it out now. Thank you

On 10/26/2017 at 9:09 AM, Newme17 said:

Maybe try working your core with strength exercises. Build more muscle in your abdominal and the fat will go down more than with just cardio. Though I don’t recommend the old school sit-ups, bad for your neck.

here are some great exercises:

https://www.fitnessmagazine.com/workout/abs/exercises/top-10-abs-exercises/?page=9

Somehow I missed this post. Thank you @Newme17 for posting those exercises. I really should be working on my core some now.

More research obviously needs to be done on this type of diet modification, but the early results definitely look promising. My interest lies in the health benefits more than anything else. I also like what Dr. Fung says in the book about learning your hunger signals better when you fast for longer periods.

I see my endocrinologist next month for a check up and I can't wait to see where my A1C level is at. I am prepared to make any modifications that are necessary to my diet and exercise to keep my A1C at non-diabetic levels without medication. I have had great BG readings for the most part, but I am not checking 24/7 so I could be missing some spikes and be unaware. IF could be another tool to help keep insulin and bg in check.

58 minutes ago, Queen Sherri said:

Perhaps you can just agree to disagree. It appears you are more interested in being "right" than in having a respectful discussion. I worked in healthcare for 40 years, have multiple advanced degrees, and taught at major universities. Yet, it seems I still have more to learn. I enjoy reading and participating in discussions like these because they don't always conform to preconceived ideas.

Surgery - RNY GBP
Surgery Date - 5/16/2017
HW - 368
SW - 352
GW - 150

Sent from my Note Edge

I am learning everyday and I still enjoy it. I tend to read everything I can find on a subject that interests me. That is just my personality. I read opposing views just as much and I always consider the source.

Thanks for your comment.

I just spent a few minutes reading through several peer reviewed articles on the subject of IF. There are so many more available. I would encourage anyone interested in learning more to read through some and also check into doctors that are using this protocol. Their evidence from using this with their patients is also very useful in considering whether this may be something useful or appropriate for you to try. Here are the links to some of the journal articles:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/315875923_The_effect_of_meal_frequency_in_a_reduced-energy_regimen_on_the_gastrointestinal_and_appetite_hormones_in_patients_with_type_2_diabetes_A_randomised_crossover_study

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/312479942_Effects_of_intermittent_fasting_on_glucose_and_lipid_metabolism

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/312038251_Is_intermittent_fasting_a_scientifically-based_dietary_method

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/309132377_Effects_of_eight_weeks_of_time-restricted_feeding_168_on_basal_metabolism_maximal_strength_body_composition_inflammation_and_cardiovascular_risk_factors_in_resistance-trained_males

1 hour ago, Waler said:

Well if you were such an expert you would not have landed here with the rest of us people who are taking back our lives after doing things the wrong way. But after 5 months out from surgery you have become an expert I see and are completely unwilling to entertain the notion that your new age fad diet is like all the others before it WRONG. People who you say were healthier were not. longevity past 60`s were the exception not the rule as is today.

When did I ever proclaim myself as an expert on IF? Read my first post and you will see I was asking for personal experiences from veterans.

Obviously I was doing some things wrong and coupled with my bad thyroid gained weight. What is your point?

Who did I ever say was healthier? I said as humans we have always fasted, so it is a built in function in our bodies to endure periods of time where we don’t eat. That’s all i said.

1 hour ago, Waler said:

You will always question people like your doctor and people who have a better grasp on things because it is in your nature. IE controlling,

I will? So you know me now after just reading a few posts on the internet? Questioning my doctor does not make me a controlling person, it makes me a person who doesn’t just take what anyone tells me to be the truth, even a doctor. Questioning things is a trait I have always found useful, you obviously don’t agree as you are frustrated that I just won’t accept what you have said as fact and truth.

The truth is you have not posted even one peer reviewed publication supporting your belief that IF is bad and just another fad diet with no health benefits at all. I want to read the data you speak of.

Yes, I am only 5 months out, but I have reached my goal of a healthy BMI and weight. I actually feel my success comes from following the advice of other veterans here that shared freely. I often do take the advice of others if I feel it is good advice and will be of benefit. I have adopted a sustainable and healthy eating plan and also regularly exercise 5-6 days a week both recommended by successful veterans.

please don’t keep posting mean responses. If you aren’t going to post links to your data please stop posting. You aren’t contributing anything of value to the thread.

1 hour ago, FluffyChix said:

Here's an interesting companion piece to @Berry78's Dawn Phenomenon post. https://idmprogram.com/dawn-phenomenon-t2d-8/

Yes that link takes you to Dr. Fungs program for reversing type 2 diabetes using IF. He has had a lot of success with his patients.

thanks for posting it.😊

43 minutes ago, jess9395 said:

I want to say I really appreciate everyone's contributions to this discussion. I don't see it as a crusade, just a discussion. I succeeded just fine, lost all my weight

I agree completely. This is a discussion.

I met my official goal weight also so I must have done something right. I am researching techniques for use now and in the future as needed during maintenance. Some type 2 diabetics see a return of higher blood sugars after a period of time and I want to be prepared with methods to deal with this.

37 minutes ago, Waler said:

am finished wasting my time with this and I feel sorry for anyone who follows you on this crusade as they will fail right beside you and wonder what happened and why this was yet another thing that did not work to help them. Oh and you are correct I am not a nutritionist and never made any claim to be

Crusade??? 😮 wow!

You didn’t claim to be a nutritionist, but you did let it be known that we should not question someone with your credentials.

I question my doctor all the time. He is not GOD and I have been given plenty of bad advice from doctors. My point being is that no one needs a fancy degree to be intelligent enough to research a subject. I would argue that @Berry78 is the queen of research and I have no idea what she does for a living.

5 minutes ago, jess9395 said:

That's what I eat! I'm at goal and active, but that's what I need to maintain at 135-ish as a 5'6" woman, so not always unhealthy!

Good to know. I just never imagine eating that much,, lol... I am so full eating 1000-1300.

31 minutes ago, Waler said:

has become painfully obvious to me that no matter how many facts and how much medical data I try to bring to the table you have obviously already made your mind up that is the magic bullet you are looking for. I have tried to be a voice of sound fact based reason and you will nit pick and try to find a loop hole with every statement just to try to support the way you want to do thing.

What medical data have you posted? What Study? I like to read all I can about something before I try it.

I sure hope this thread leads other to research this for themselves and not take my word for it. You seem convinced we are all just following some fad diet and you ignore the data I did post. I like debating and I don’t understand why you are getting so upset about it. @FluffyChix and @Berry78 debate with me all the time. I like it. You don’t have to be right or wrong. You just have a different opinion.

2 hours ago, Waler said:

I will state again there is not magic formula, and to base things on the way our ancestors did things is utter nonsense.

This is like throwing out the bath with the bath Water just because it gets cold. Sure some things our ancestors did would not be smart to continue (running around naked, is one..lol), however to say that we cannot learn important things from them and shouldn't incorporate them into our lifestyle where appropriate and beneficial is short sighted. IMHO

20 minutes ago, Berry78 said:

https://www.thediabetescouncil.com/what-you-should-know-about-diabetes-and-the-dawn-phenomenon/

Ok, so first your blood sugar drops during the night (probably because you haven't eaten for a while). Hormones come along to say, hey, we need more sugar! So the liver puts out sugar. The pancreas then says, oops.. too much sugar, let me put some insulin on that. In a typical person, that brings blood sugar back down, but in a diabetic, the insulin is missing or ineffective, so the blood stays over-sweet.

Yep that’s it in a nut shell. And there is more than one way to fix it. Different strategies work for different people.

24 minutes ago, FluffyChix said:

Dawn Phenomenon--where the pancreas dumps it's insulin somewhere in the wee small hours of night (around 4am).

Just an FYI, it is the liver dumping stored glycogen that causes dawn phenomenon. That is if we are talking about the same thing.

I experienced dawn phenomenon the first year I was diagnosed with type 2 so I am very familiar with it. My liver would dump anytime I had not eaten for more then 4 hours. For me this was solved by getting my liver to release its stored glycogen. This can be done by eating very low carb for a period of time and exercise. Oddly enough it is also one of the benefits of IF. I was not aware of this type of eating method at that time or I would have tried it for sure.

I don’t really understand why instituting a slightly longer fasting period would be so negative and why some would resist the idea so strongly. If you eat your dinner st 6:00 pm and don’t snack, then sleep in till 9:00 am and eat around 10:00am you have fasted for 16 hours without even thinking about it. I would argue that many people who don’t snack after dinner are practicing IF without actually planning to.

Is it bad simply because a person makes a conscious decision to do it? This is a real question.

3 minutes ago, Waler said:

It is a very simple concept if you intake less calories then you expend you lose weight. If you do not intakes the proper amount of nutrients over the course of a day you will run into problems, might not be today, might not be tomorrow but it will catch up to you.

It has been proven that calories in does not always equal calories out. People with metabolic syndrome do not process calories in this way. It is not that simple.

I do not put my faith in fake science or fad diets. I research everything I do very throughly. It is fine to disagree. Debate is what keeps us thinking and searching out the facts.

I don’t ever see myself consuming 2500 calories in a day. That may be what the typical American person on the western diet eats, but that is not healthy.

I see your point though.

For @Waler.

Here are a few studies on the benefits of IF.

Mattson has contributed to several other studies on intermittent fasting and caloric restriction. In one, overweight adults with moderate asthma consumed only 20% of their normal calorie intake on alternate days (Free Radical Bio Med 2007;42:665–74). Participants who adhered to the diet lost 8% of their initial body weight over eight weeks. They also saw a decrease in markers of oxidative stress and inflammation, and improvement of asthma-related symptoms and several quality-of-life indicators.

In another study, Mattson and colleagues explored the effects of intermittent and continuous energy restriction on weight loss and various biomarkers (for conditions including breast cancer, diabetes and cardiovascular disease) among young overweight woman (Int J Obesity 2011;35:714–27). They found that intermittent restriction was as effective as continuous restriction for improving weight loss, insulin sensitivity and other health biomarkers.

Just go to pubmed and search on the subject. There are a ton of studies that have been published. I am working my way through the ones I have access to.

9 minutes ago, Waler said:

well I guess a degree in anatomy and physiology, and experience as a genetic research lab tech means I do not know as much as your internet information or a fad diets trying to sell book. If I sound a bit insulted it is well because I am by your last comment. I have multiple degrees and experience in see a numerous disease conditions and a word you should research "homeostasis". Your books claim diet "may" effect genetic, I was part of the research team that worked on genetic expression of MRNA on traumatic head injuries and gene expression. anyone who tells you they know diet effects gene expression should be selling snake oil, because we do not know that to be true at this time. My final comment is if you choose to base your life on books that people are trying to sell you and the internet then you will fail on this journey, its just that simple. There is not quick fix, there is not magic tricks, your body needs to be retained in a steady rhythm. anything else is smoke and mirrors, so please have a little class and do not tell someone who does genetic research that they don`t know what they are talking about when it comes to the human condition

I did not mean to offend you. You said you were a lab tech not that you had multiple degrees in Genetics and anatomy and physiology. What was your major? I have degrees also. but that doesn't really mean anything, I can still be wrong about a subject I have knowledge in. My degree is entomology and wildlife conservation, but I don't claim to know everything there is to know about insects, far from from it.

I am doing research on this subject through books and yes the internet. I am looking for articles that are backed up by science. There is a lot of evidence that intermittent fasting does have good benefits and this is without restricting calories any further,

13 minutes ago, Berry78 said:

fter Protein is taken care of, then I look at the next macro. Carbohydrates. Some of the selected protein foods contain carbs, so I count those up. Do I have room for any others? If yes, then I look at fruit. A while back, I was researching fructose, and the daily recommended amount was approximately what was contained in one piece of fruit. So, that's easy. One fruit, depending on size, usually contains 15-25g carbs. I look at fruit, rather than grains, because fruit contains Vitamin C, and addresses any sweet cravings. Plus, you keep a fruit bowl on the counter and grab a piece. No cooking or prep required.

I think your plan is great, but I have come to believe that we spend way to much time looking at macros. We call food by its macro content now instead of what it is. I hate this part of WLS.

3 minutes ago, niseys4 said:

Hello Apple1! First I'd like to thank you for opening up this discusion. I understand the health benefits of IF but im not understanding the 5:2 or the 16:8! What I understand IF to be, & please correct me if Im wrong, is no eating from your last meal of the day till your first meal the next day. Like a 12 hour window of no eating. For example; if my last meal was @ 6pm then my next meal will not be until 6am the next day! Is that somewhat how IF works? Please break it down for me!
Im only 3 mos post op & agree I should wait till I reach my goal weight but Im really interested in learning more about IF from those who have actually tried it!

Sent from my SM-T530NU using BariatricPal mobile app

I am still in the learning phase myself and have not tried this yet, but I do plan on incorporating the 16/8 type of fasting. Basically you limit your eating to an 8 hour window of your choosing. For me it will be from 12:00-8:00pm. I will eat my first meal of the day at 12 and finish by 8:00pm. I will still eat my normal healthy diet and the same amount of calories, I will just fast from 8:00pm till 12:00 the next day. I will still consume Water, coffee, and tea during the 16 hour fast. I hope this helps. I encourage you to purchase one of Dr. Fungs books on the subject or check out youtube.