"Just" Paul

Carol... James Brolin was supposed to play me. Telly suggested Willie Nelson for your hubby.

I tried it... eh. Braunswager (liverwurst) is really good though. With a little dark mustard to dip it in.

OUCH, you hit me...:eek: Watch that aim. Unless it was on purpose... Quickly leaving the thread...:eek

I had a slice that had that crust that isn't much thicker than a big cracker, and I could eat a slice. However, no one else I know likes that kind of crust, and since I can only eat 1 piece... I don't have it. No loss. You'll start not thinking about certain foods after a while, like Jack said.

But I like Spam... a slice grilled and covered with a piece of American cheese, on a nice roll with lettuce and tomato... oops.. wrong Spam. nevermind.:eek:

Jen, He doesn't represent a Guy's opinion... trust me, just his own. I think it was bogus. Stand your ground. You sound like a damn good parent!

Give Yo a break... he was just volunteering for medical research, nothing more.:eek:

Tried it 3 years ago. Didn't lose a damn thing. Gave me the shakes, and made me irritable... Wait... I'm still irritable. I guess that side effect was permanent.

No pics... Bummer.

Interesting post, but there are a few quick facts to state on thie issue. I agree with Poodles, it is a YMMV situation. My body actually does very well on lower carb diets. A couple points... 1. Many people mistake low carb dieting for NO carb dieting. No carb is bad. You cannot survive on ONLY meat. Diets like Atkins NEVER suggest that, that is a myth. They actually suggest that you avoid processed and refined foods alltogether, flour and sugar mainly. Since both of those items are truly devoid of nutrition, you will be hard pressed to find a doctor that suggests you eat them. 2. This is the big one... I looked at your "facts". They were provided by the American Dietetic Association. You might want to note who these folks are... they are a VEGAN group (gee, vegans don't eat meat, and most lower carb diets allow you to eat meat) and are associated with PETA. Obviously, they are biased against ANY diet that allows for eating animal products. Not an unbiased opinion here folks. Take their "wisdom" with a grain of salt. 3. There is just as much good data on the benefits of lower carb eating. For example from Web MD: June 23, 2006 -- In motivated, obese type 2 diabetic patients, a low-carbohydrate diet with some caloric restriction has lasting benefits on body weight and glycemic control, often reducing the need for medication, Swedish researchers report in the journal Nutrition and Metabolism. Dr. Jorgen Vesti Nielsen and Dr. Eva A. Joensson from Blekingesjukhuset, Karlshamn, previously reported that 16 obese patients with type 2 diabetes who followed a 20% carbohydrate diet achieved significantly better glycemic control and body weight over 6 months than did 15 patients who followed a 55% to 60% carbohydrate diet. Follow-up data at 22 months for the low-carbohydrate group now shows "stable improvement" of body weight and glycemic control, the investigators report. At the start of the study, mean body weight was 100.6 kg in the low-carbohydrate group. At 6 months, mean body weight was 89.2 kg and at 22 months it was 92.0 kg (p < 0.001). "It is significant," the authors note, "that 44% of the patients have had a stable weight or have reduced it further and all but one had a lower weight at 22 months than at the beginning of the study." Initial HbA1c was 8.0% in the low-carbohydrate group. After 6 and 12 months, HbA1c had improved to 6.6% and 7.0%, respectively, and at 22 months it was still reduced, at 6.9%. After 6 months on the low-carb diet, 2 of 5 patients using sulfonylurea had discontinued this medication and three were able to lower the dosage. Similarly, 3 of 11 insulin-treated patients discontinued insulin and the mean insulin requirement among 8 had fallen from 60 IU/day to 18 IU/day. Dr. Nielsen and colleagues also report that seven subjects who switched from the higher-carbohydrate to the low-carbohydrate diet after the initial 6-month observation period also saw improvement in their blood sugar and body weight. The low-carbohydrate and high-carbohydrate diet contained about the same caloric content (1800 kcal for men and 1600 kcal for women), but the proportions of carbohydrates, Protein, and fat were 20%, 30%, and 50%, respectively, for the low-carb diet versus 55-60%, 15%, and 25-30%, respectively, for the higher-carb control diet. In the low-carb group, the daily quantity of carbohydrates was 80-90 grams and carbohydrates were limited to vegetables and salad. Pasta, potatoes, rice and breakfast cereals were excluded and, instead of ordinary bread, crisp/hard bread was recommended, with each piece containing 3.5 to 8 grams of carbohydrates. The low-carb group was also counseled not to eat between meals. In contrast, in the higher-carbohydrate diet, whole-grain products were recommended, as were generous helpings of vegetables and several servings of fruit as Snacks between meals. "Several recent reviews have made the case for reducing the carbohydrate load in type 2 diabetes or metabolic syndrome and the low-carbohydrate diet presented here is clearly effective in many obese people with type 2 diabetes," the authors write. "Because of its effectiveness it should be used with close clinical supervision in patients on insulin or oral hypoglycemic agents." In comments to Reuters Health, Dr. Nielsen said: "There is no such thing as one diet that all patients should adapt to. Some prefer to eat as they are used to and treat the blood glucose with medications. Others are willing to make quite substantial changes in their lives in order to get healthier (and in some cases to get cured of their diabetes). These (patients) should also have help from professionals." Dr. Nielsen also noted that existing diabetes dietary guidelines are "paradoxical in that they...actually increase blood glucose, cause deterioration of the blood lipids and prevent the wanted weight reduction -- just the opposite of what the physician wants to see in the patients." When it comes to diet and diabetes, Dr. Nielsen acknowledges that "we know very little and patients should be informed about our lack of knowledge so they can make their own choices. And then they should get our full support in whatever they chose." From Rx List: A review of the research currently available on the safety and effectiveness of low-carb diets published last year in The Journal of the American Medical Association concluded that there was "insufficient evidence for or against the use of these diets." From Newswise: Newswise — With a continuing epidemic of type 2 diabetes and dwindling resources to combat it, new approaches are clearly needed. Because it is disease of insulin and blood sugar regulation, low-carbohydrate diets have been an obvious choice for diabetic patients but have been resisted by some professionals and agencies in favor of pharmacologic approaches. Now, medical researchers in Sweden have reported a follow-up study of patients on a low-carbohydrate diet up to 22 months and report stable improvement and reduced need for medication. The Swedish group, led by Dr. Jorgen Vesti Nielsen, had previously reported on16 obese patients on a 20-percent carbohydrate diet over 6 months. After 22 months, patients continued to show improvement in hemoglobin A1C, a marker for long-term blood-sugar levels in diabetes. The paper published today in Nutrition & Metabolism, an open access journal [no subscription required (http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/home/)], also reports that seven patients who immediately switched to a 20-percent carbohydrate diet from a low-fat diet in the earlier study also showed improvement. According to Richard Feinman, PhD, editor of Nutrition & Metabolism, “It is a small study, but it is the longest of its kind and it shows people coming off medication and improving their glycemic control.” Dr. Feinman is also professor of biochemistry at SUNY Downstate Medical Center in Brooklyn. From Newstarget: - A REVOLUTIONARY low-carbohydrate diet could dramatically ease the effects of epilepsy in children and reduce the need for sufferers to take drugs, researchers claimed today. - Pioneering work at Londonâ¬s Great Ormond Street Hospital has shown that almost half of youngsters following a high-fat Ketogenic diet have reported a 50 per cent reduction in seizures. - In trials involving 31 children, doctors were able to reduce the anti-epileptic medication of 42 per cent of patients after three months. - The tests, conducted with the Institute of Child Health and the National Centre for Young People with Epilepsy, have involved children adhering to either a classic version of the Ketogenic diet or one which includes prescription-only medium chain triglyceride supplements. From Medicalnews today: High Protein, Low-Carb Diet During Pregnancy Good for Baby It has been estimated that up to 32 million Americans have adopted the low-carb style of eating, in part because of its quick and dramatic results. Converts often maintain components of low-carb eating long after they've officially finished dieting. Not surprisingly, a growing number of pregnant women now explore ways to continue low-carb routines through gestation, in fact there are several chat rooms devoted to this topic. Though low-carbing during pregnancy has not been extensively researched, a new study points to some positive benefits for the adult offspring of low-carb dieters. A team of U.K. scientists at the University of Southampton School of Medicine have found that female pups born to mice who were fed a diet high in unsaturated fat and protein, and low in carbohydrates (low-carb/high-fat) during pregnancy and lactation were likely to have lower liver triglyceride levels in adulthood than pups born to mice on the standard chow diet (high-carb/low-fat). The female low-carb/high-fat offspring also had higher amounts of Proteins that aid fatty acid oxidation (fat burning) than did the standard diet pups. A similar trend was noted in the male low-carb/high-fat offspring, but the results were not as dramatic. In humans, maintenance of low triglyceride levels and a good lipid (fat) metabolism is important as these factors can reduce the risk of developing coronary artery disease, a condition that affects millions and kills thousands of Americans each year. Research highlights: -- Mother mice were assigned either low-carb/high-fat or standard high-carb/low-fat diets approximately six weeks before impregnation. They remained on these diets through pregnancy and nursing. -- The low-carb/high-fat mother mice ate approximately 21 percent less than the high-carb/low-fat mother mice did. The low-carb/high-fat mother mice consumed 57.5 percent fewer carbs, 153 percent more fat and 23 percent more protein than the mice on the standard diet. -- The mothers on the low-carb/high-fat diet did not display differences in body weight in comparison to the standard diet mice. -- All pups were weaned from breast milk onto the same standard high-carb diet into adulthood. -- Importantly, the adult offspring of low-carb/high-fat mothers had reduced liver triglyceride concentration (less than half that of the pups born to mothers on the standard diet), despite being fed the same standard high-carb/low-fat diet post weaning. They also expressed significantly greater levels of the hepatic proteins CD36, CPT-1 and PPARá, which help with fatty acid oxidation. The results of the study “A high unsaturated fat, high protein and low carbohydrate diet during pregnancy and lactation modulates hepatic lipid metabolism in female adult offspring” will appear as one of 20 research studies on fetal programming (how a mother's actions affect her offspring) presented in the January 2005 edition of the American Journal of Physiology - Regulatory, Integrative, and Comparative Physiology. The authors of the study are Junlong Zhang, Chunli Wang, and Christopher D. Byrne of the Endocrinology and Metabolism at the University of Southampton School of Medicine; and Paul L. Terroni, Felino R. A. Cagampang, and Mark Hanson of the Maternal, Fetal and Neonatal Physiology Sub-Division at the University of Southampton's Princess Anne Hospital. All authors are in the University of Southampton's Developmental Origins of Health and Disease Division (DOHaD). This work was supported by the Wellcome Trust, the British Heart Foundation, the DOHaD Center and the School of Medicine of the University of Southampton

Look, we are talking about a good mom here who is teaching her child good habits, and working on bettering herself and her family's health. One... it is not their place to criticize the child, especially with the mixed signals (here eat more... btw you are fat). Two... F' them. At this young age kids are impressionable, and that can seriously damage their self image. People are not all destined to be thin no matter what exercise or diet regimen they follow. If her genetics and family history show that she can be healthy and thick... GOOD. Healthy is important, twiggy is not. I guess I may be different than most men, but when I look at Paris Hilton, all I can think is... "for God's sake, eat a sandwich." The aunts don't know any better, they are just rude teens... that I can forgive (although they should be told it was wrong), but the grandparents should be flogged, publically. Uncalled for attitude to the kid, and it upsets her and her mother. Sorry again, but this riles me up.

If that was my folks I'd tell them to kiss the shiniest part of the bottom of my A$$, and let them know if they did it again, they wouldn't get to spend ANY time with her. That was uncalled for. Sorry, don't mean to be crude, but I hate it when poeple do that to kids, and make them feel badly about themselves in any way.

Donna, That pudding is probably better, but I'm lazy:p

James Brolin... I like it!

Vickie!?!?!:help: (Hands over ears) Nanananananananananananananan hey, that stuff got me in trouble:faint:

I have BC/BS... in other words, I am self-pay.

I go work out in the garage. Oops, you meant the women... this is what I do when it is the wife's TOM. Sorry, forget I was here.

I can sit in my wife's lap now, without making her scream in crushing terror.

Yeah, old hippie type. Willie is good.

George carlin?

Carol, we'll recast someone for your hubby!:clap2:

Never tried Soy milk. I usually use Hood CarbCountdown Milk (skim). Has more protein than regular milk (I think like 20 grams) and the lactose (milk sugar) has been removed and replaced with protein and splenda. I'd like to try those shakes though. Wonder if I can find them in VA? BTW, Great job on getting the scale to move. Can you make mine do it too? Hasn't done it in a couple weeks.

Good one~!

Also a really good point. I bet for many of us, night snacking was and IS an issue.

Great story, Carol. Now, who plays you in your life story?