BigViffer

This is exactly what I was talking about in another thread. People don't want advice. They want want validation and "there, there" 's. Sent from my phone. Please forgive brevity and spelling.

lol, ah... the big newbie hormonal dump rage vs bored vet arguments. The same thing played out over & over every 6 months. A piece of advice, but not for the newbies. Vets, your input is not really wanted. People only want a vet to reaffirm their choices, theories, and advice. I found that the ones that truly want advice are not the ones hoping to make a name, obtain popularity, or gain a reputation on the forum. More often than not, the ones that appear to take advice to heart are the ones that have PM'ed a vet for a private conversation. That allows a conversation without any posturing.

There is no need for a "pouch reset". You are just getting worked up for nothing. It's very normal though at this stage. Stress is very high early on and the desire to always see that number go down is very strong. Relax. Breathe in, breathe out. Gaining a pound is a BM just waiting to happen. Or 1 lbs water is equal to 16 ounces. Did you just finish a drink? You might just be in a stall while your body is moving things around.

If you mean walking on a treadmill or easy going on an eliptical, you could physically handle it. However, you will need clearance from your surgeon. A week out you probably still have the drain at least and maybe the pain ball. Even if you don't have any of those, the gym is a hotbed of bacteria. You don't want to be around that crap while your incisions are still healing.

No oatmeal ever? I would question that dietitians qualification. Oats are an excellent source of complex carbohydrates as well as fiber. I am not sure what they would consider a "better" choice. Bran is good; as is shredded wheat, but I wouldn't say they are better. As for the "soaking" up the liquid, the only liquid in our stomachs should be digestive juices. Which is mainly hydrochloric acid. I'm pretty sure that oats (nor oatmeal) are impervious to hydrochloric acid. The example given of sitting in the sink isn't really a fair comparison because of the mastication of food in our stomach versus the unchewed food in the sink. Not picking on you Suns, just questioning the advice of your dietitian.

I say go for it. You are still in your honeymoon phase truth be told. You are going to bounce back a little bit most likely anyways, and it's not a bad thing! I hit 198 and now maintain at about 220, which incidently was my stated goal weight. Though I bet if I stopped heavy lifting, I would dip back down to 200 in short enough time. As for still seeing the fat person in the mirror, I feel you there. No matter what anyone says, I still see the belly. Some days, I can literally FEEL the fat roll of my stomach. 20 years overweight and identifying as the fat guy doesn't go away easily.

You should be afraid. Fear is a powerful motivator. Fear can also lead to respect. For example, I do not work with electricity anymore since getting the **** shocked out of me. I understand how it works and now have the utmost respect for electricity. I no longer fear it though. If you use this time to learn proper nutrition and establish good eating habits, you will no longer fear failure but you may respect the power food can have over you. I see this stated so many times and I truly do not understand why people choose to call it cheating. Cheating is almost always done to win. In our situations, "cheating" always indicates failure or weakness. Don't despair! We all have weak times, it's natural. But having the idea in your head that you are cheating does not help you win at anything. Recognize it as a weak moment so that you can work on becoming stronger.

Jesus, the "discussion" about Genepro just won't go away. Sherrie in particular appears to love bringing this topic up for discussion. Here is a recent thread of hers about it: If you were do do a search of this forum for Genepro, you would find 1,583 results.(Genpro returns 112). There is nothing new that can be said of this. In the company's own words: They are saying their 10g of special protein is equivalent to 30g whey. Genepro is not backed by science but marketing.

You are not losing your mind at all, it is perfectly normal. Don't try and "break the stall" as it is precisely what your body should be doing at this stage. "Only" losing 40lbs in a month is an incredible amount of weight in that time period. The industry average according to my surgeon is 25 lbs. Fat is not being "redistributed", your body is just using reserves to complete the healing process. Adaptation cannot happen at the same time as the loss. You have the about a year of the drastic weight loss ahead of you, don't worry. As long as you follow the plan and do not fall back into what was considered "normal" habits before, the scale will continue to go down and then maintain. Since you are still so fresh from surgery, I would heartily recommend you take measurements of your chest, waist, hips, thighs, and arms. That is the one set of metrics I did not track and I really wish I had done so.

It really depends on your needs. If you are very active in the gym, want to maintain or add muscle, keep your hair, and have strong nails; you need a protein bar that is 100% whey protein. Depending on how hard you hit the gym, you may want to keep the carbs in the protein bar. Insulin promotes protein synthesis. Whey protein has the highest bio-availability. If you are vegan; soy, pea, and hemp protein are probably going to be your primary protein source. They will work, but you will only get about half of that in bio-availability. All that being said, if you find a perfect mix of carbs and protein, they don't mean a thing if they taste like crap. So the best protein bar is the one that you will actually eat.

One cannot live on water alone. What are you eating? Sent from my phone. Please forgive brevity and spelling.

Well, if you go by the actual description of this website: Not a support site, but rather a site for discussion. Or if you prefer the official app description: Again, not merely for support. So why am I here? For information. Whether it be gathering or disseminating. Now, as a Type 2 diabetic myself and someone who has insulin dependent family members who I have seen with glucose levels in the 600's, the very first question any doctor will ask is, "What are you eating?" It doesn't have to be because of sweets; simple cabs like bread, potatoes, and fruit can drive glucose levels into dangerous territory. Just because I don't come across all warm and fluffy doesn't mean I am being a jerk nor does it make me unsupportive. But you talking to someone that you have no direct interaction with in the way that you did makes you appear self righteous. If you don't like my posts, put me on ignore. It makes no difference to me.

Kind of begs the question, what are you eating? Do you keep an accurate food journal? Sent from my phone. Please forgive brevity and spelling.

That only works if the post is about 15 minutes old. Anything older than that you cannot edit or remove. Have to blame the trolls and combative vets of the past for that little gem. People were editing their posts after creating flame wars to make themselves as the victim instead of the instigator. Also, Alex has as much said that anything you post here, picture or text, is content now owned by the website so that the site will come up in organic search results boosting BP's search rankings.

HW = Highest Weight SW = Surgery Weight CW = Current Weight GW = Goal Weight

I've recently been enjoying the aesthetic benefits of hitting the gym on a regular basis. Someone said I should post my routine for reference, so I am happy to oblige. I had my surgery in February of 2015 and joined my gym the following April. With the exception of holidays, vacations, and illness; I have gone to the gym at least 4 days a week. Sometimes I will go twice in one day if I need to waste time after work before I have club meeting or my recently started yoga class. A quick and brief history about me; I had an almost fatal car accident as a young man that cause lifelong issues and also several sport injuries that are related to said car accident issues and poor form or just outright ignorance about proper technique when exercising. The main body parts that I obsessively protect now in order of importance and pain level are as follows: Back - bone fragments, arthritic spurs, herniated discs, and bulging discs Shoulder - Arthritic bones spurs, separated shoulder, reconstructive surgery (rotator cuff) Knees - driven into the dashboard and now grind just during walking, arthritic bone spurs Ankles - driven through floorboard and broken/folded back onto calves, bone fragments, arthritic bone spurs After that car accident, it took me 3 months to walk and another year to walk unaided. Fast forward many years and I caused several sport injuries because I was more concerned with getting big muscles than with safety. That's when I separated my shoulder and needed surgery for it. I also increased the damage to my lower back. So why do I share that information in a post about exercise? Because there may be another technique that someone has heard of or read about and thinks it is as good as or better than what I say I am doing. It may very well be true, but I may not physically be able to do it. All of the exercises I do have been vetted by my physical therapist. Very seldom will I say an exercise should never be done by anyone, but there are many that I will say I will not do. So let me reiterate - I am not a trainer and I am not a therapist. This is what is working for me. It may not work for you. I take no responsibility for what you do with this information. I encourage you to verify this with your doctor, therapist, internet, mom, or rabbi. That reminds me, the number one thing I hope anyone who reads this thread takes to heart and truly listens to me about is to focus on your technique or form. Don't worry about the weight, only worry about proper form. You will get more benefit doing a controlled 25 lb. lift than a fast and Jerky 50 lb. lift. I'm serious, when you walk into a fitness center, weight room, cardio room or whatever; leave your ego in the locker with your clothes. I am going to break this into several posts incase people want to skip portions of it. So if you come to this thread and it seems incomplete, you probably came while I was typing up the next post. Terminology Much of the equipment we use at the gym is self explanatory, but in different parts of the country we will call it something different. So I am going to put here what I know them as. Olympic Bar – This is immediately recognizable by everyone who thinks of bench pressing. It’s a big bar that is around 7 ft. long and ways approximately 45 lbs. Curl Bar – this looks like the Olympic bar, just smaller. Usually around 4 ft. long and weighs 25 lbs. HOWEVER some can weigh as little as 15 lbs. If the bar ends are the same diameter as the Olympic bar though, it is probably standard. EZ Curl Bar – this is the bar that is angled for a more natural grip. It is supposed to cut down the risk of injury and weigh the same as the Curl Bar. Dumbbell – self explanatory Kettlebell – These are roughly kettle shaped weights with a double wide handle on the top. Bands – These are elastic rubber bands that vary on resistance. They can be a loop or a tube with handles on both ends. (Love these!) Fitness Ball – Jiminy Crickets these things have a ton of names! People call them balance ball, birth ball, body ball, ball, fitness ball, gym ball, gymnastic ball, physio-ball, Pilates ball, Pezzi ball, sports ball, stability ball, Swedish ball, therapy ball, or yoga ball. It’s just a big ass ball you can do a bunch of crap with. Leg Press Machine – a machine you sit in and push weights away from you with your legs. Smith Machine – Most often people use this for squats or bench pressing. I’m not a fan of it. If is an “A” frame machine that has an Olympic sized bar on rails and has locking positions to rest the bar. Cable Machine – There are many variations to the cable machine, but the concept is the same. Weights attached to a cable and pulley system usually with one on opposite sides while you stand in the middle. These can also be used one cable at a time for various exercises. Leg Curl Machine – Whether seated or prone (laying on your stomach) these work your hamstrings. Only do lighter weight sets though (<100 lbs.) Multi-Hip Machine – This is not a very common machine, but I like it better than the Hip Adductor machine. The Hip Adductor is the machine where your legs are spread and you pull them together. Every pubescent boy and gym meathead will wait for a woman to get on that machine. The Multi-Hip is better and not as potentially embarrassing to use. Leg Extension Machine – This is the machine that puts a padded bar in front of your shins and you force the weight up ostensibly to work your quads. Avoid this machine like the plague. It is probably the worse exercise you can do you any joint in your body. Seriously, I can’t believe it is still in any gym or fitness center, but both the rec center and the YMCA I go to have these machines. You can call me stupid or ignorant or whatever you want in regards to any other exercise, but please listen to me on this. Never use this machine. Ever. I’m serious. Don’t even make eye contact with it! Jungle Gym – okay, so that is not the real name of this… thing. Honestly there may not be a snappy name for it, but it’s used for hanging vertical knee raises and dips. It’s a large rack with hand grips basically. Here is my Week schedule: Mon - Legs & abs then cardio Tue - Shoulders & Upper back then cardio. Evening Yoga class Wed - Cardio only Thu - Chest then cardio Fri - Arms then cardio Again, let me reiterate - this is my routine. Some people like a push/pull alternating routine. That’s fine, but this is what I like and what works for me. I like to do large muscle groups one day, then smaller the next. I also like doing saturations and failures for arm day. The goal is to engorge the arms with blood flow. I would not recommend this routine if you are going for max weight reps. I also aim for high to medium intensity, so I don't have long rests between sets and exercises. Also, I hope it goes without saying that you should warm up and stretch out before starting your workout. Cold muscles are soon to be hurt muscles. Exaggerated movements, long stride walking on the track, jumping jacks... whatever works for you. Also, as with any gym routine, it always comes down to equipment availability. I will write about my preferred sequence of exercises. Ok then, on to the details. Monday - Leg & Abs Day Deadlift - I prefer to do this one first for a few reasons. I want to be as fresh and strong as possible for this exercise. The possibility for injury is high on this one and I don't want to have bad form because of fatigue. If I can't do this as my first or second exercise, I won't bother doing it. It's just not worth the risk to me. The deadlift can be dangerous it's true, but there is no other lifting exercise that works so many muscles at the same time the way that your body is meant to work together. I go very light for this exercise currently. I am still training myself to do the proper technique. Until it becomes muscle memory, I will start with the Olympic bar and 25 lbs. plates and work up to 45 lbs. plates. So I am “maxing” out at 135lbs. Do I look like I care about the numbers? Fitness ball sit-ups – Just like it sounds. I also hold a small medicine ball over my head so that I cannot cheat and use my hands to pull my neck out of alignment and screw up my form. Cable Machine Oblique Crunches – With the single hand grip, lower one cable pulley to the lowest point. Stand far enough away from machine to have the cable and your arm taut and look like you are stretching your opposite side. Facing 90 degrees from the pulley, straighten your body using your oblique to pull you. Leg Curl – Slow and steady is the key to this machine since we are not using a lot of weight. Whether seated nor prone, curl the weight like normal and let it back down over three seconds. Seated Leg Press – start at a comfortable weight, like 1/3 your body weight. Feet just outside your hips and feet straight. We want to make sure that our knees and ankles are aligned properly. Smoothly and steadily push it up. Stop just before you would lock your knees and let it back down. No jarring motions. On the 10 rep I stop at the top and move my feet towards the back edge and do calf extensions. Multi-Hip Machine – This machine allows me to work the hamstring again then rotate and work the inside of my thighs. Yes it is predominately used by women, but I don’t care. I never do the push on the outside of the leg or the knee lifts, those are bad, but the pulling exercises are safe. Cable Machine Oblique Woodchopper – Another one that is hard to describe but easy to do. It’s a lot like swinging a bat, but not quite. Jungle Gym – it’s that rack thing with grips I was talking about. Hang from this thing and then bring your knees up to at least your waist level, a little higher if you can. If you hit your chest, you’re over doing it! Reverse Lunge – No weights anymore because I am getting tired at this point. I prefer reverse lunges to regular because my balance sucks and also because I can never seem to get the right size step and keep my knee over my ankle. With a reverse lunge it is so much easier to align your knee and ankle properly that you can focus on your balance. Planks – nothing fancy. One minute traditional plank then rotate into an oblique plank for a minute. Back to center for a minute and rotate to the opposite oblique plank. Squats – Again with no weights. But if I did want to use added weights I would use a kettle bell and not the Olympic bar with plates. Just preference. Treadmill – by now I am pretty shaky and fatigued. I’ll rest by walking for 30 minutes on the treadmill 3.5 mph and 4 degree incline. Treadmills vary, so this may be killer on your treadmill or a walk in the park. And that’s it for Leg & Ab day! Tuesday – Shoulders and Upper Back I am very conservative with my shoulders because of my injury and subsequent surgery. These are all low weight, body weight, or band exercises; so you know they are safe! Ball on the wall circles – This is straight from therapy, but it is good to get blood into the shoulder and work the smaller supporting muscles for all the other stuff we do. Get a small ball and place it on a smooth wall. (I use the same small medicine ball that I use for the fitness ball crunches above) Put your palm on the ball and still facing the wall, stand far enough away that your palm is able to hold the ball against the wall and make small circles. 50 of them to the left, then 50 to the right. Now switch arms. Now stand so you are perpendicular to the wall and repeat. Around the world – There is no name for this, it just something I do to keep my shoulders loose between exercises. Using that small medicine ball, I’ll pass it from my left hand to my right. Then I’ll bring it around my right side to my back and pass it to my left hand. Bring my left hand around to my front and repeat. After 10 or 12, I change directions. Middle Trap Fly – Grab a band! It can be any type, but not too much resistance. Smooth and controlled is what we are going for. Grab the band so that your hands are roughly shoulder width apart. Without bending your elbows, pull the band apart and bring your hands as far out to your side as possible. Front Arm Raise – I prefer to do these one arm alternating. Grab some dumbbells and stand up straight, set your shoulders back and firmly in place. Raise one arm up and go back down then the other arm. Upper Trap Raises – Grab that band again! I can’t tell you which color to grab because many brands have different color codes. Start off with the easiest one though. This one requires the kind with handles on each end. Depending on how much resistance you need/want, you can either step on the middle of the band or use both feet equally spaced out. Then just raise your arms out to your side. Rotator Cuff Internal Rotation – on the cable machine, set a single grip about waist level and set it on the lowest weight. With your arm at 90 degrees and your elbow firmly in place next to your body, pull the grip to your belly button. Some people will add a small rolled up towel under their armpit to let them know if their form starts to suffer. If the towel drops, you moved your elbow away you’re your body. Rotator Cuff External Rotation – Same as the above exercise, but instead of pulling towards your belly button, you start from there and rotate out. Inverted Row – On the Smith Machine, set the bar below the chest but no lower than the waist. I also use a step against the wall as a ledge to push my feet against. Plant your feet against the step, grab the bar and pull yourself up. It’s like a push up in reverse. Lat Pull – On the Lat Pull Machine. Pretty self explanatory. Only thing I will mention, do not go behind your head. It’s horrible for your shoulder! I do my first 3 sets with palm out grip and the next 3 palm in. Eliptical – 30 minutes on the elliptical should be enough to call this a day! I just want to mention that I come back to the gym after work and attend a Yoga class that lasts an hour. I highly recommend trying it out since it helps stretch all the muscles that we have been and will be punishing during the week. Increased blood flow to muscles is important, you know? Wednesday – Cardio day. I usually do 30 minutes on the elliptical then 30 on the treadmill and call it a day. Sometimes if my daughter doesn’t have homework, I will go back to the gym on my way to my weekly club meeting and walk the track. Thursday – Chest day I make sure to warm up my shoulders before working my chest. Strong yet flexible shoulders are vitally important to your chest workout. Ball on the wall, Around the worlds, or maybe a few band stretches is usually enough. Chest Press – Grab some dumbbells and a bench. With your arms out away from your sides and your elbows at 90 degrees, push up. Slowly bring them back down but do not break the plane of your back. All that crap you hear about getting a good stretch on your chest is bunk. Once you go beyond the plane of your back, you are going to have to engage other muscles to bring that weight forward before your pectorals can pull your arms together. So just don’t do it. Incline Chest Press – Same as above, but raise the back of the bench up to at least about 60 degrees. Awesome Lower Pectoral Fly – I found this one quite by accident and it is now by far my favorite chest exercise. Bar none. It is pretty much a cable fly, but it is done a little bit differently. The best way to explain it is in this video: https://youtu.be/_YcANO5d0nA?t=156 Single Arm Chest Fly – Stay on the cable machine, but now you only need one side. The problem with regular cable fly is that you stop once your hands meet in front of you. When you do it with only one arm, you can cross much further. Dips – This one is very tough. I can only to two or three. But it is something to keep trying. Elliptical – 30 minutes on the elliptical and you can stick a fork in this workout. Friday – Arm Day Ah, arm day… my favorite day of the week. Straight Curl Bar – Just what it sounds like. Though I like to bring it up normal and then let it back down over a three count. Reverse Grip Tricep Pull Down – On the cable machine, set the grip up as high as it goes. I use the straight bar and grip it with my palm facing the ceiling. Hammer Curl – On an incline bench (60 degree-ish) hold a dumbbell parallel to your body and curl one arm then the next. This has a longer range of motion. I prefer the alternating arms personally. Tricep Pull Down – This is the traditional “V” grip bar. Cable Curl to Forehead – I can’t find a good picture of this, but it is the same mechanics as a regular curl, but once you get the bar past your halfway mark, you involve your shoulders to bring the curl up to your forehead. Over the head Tricep Rope – Again with the cable up at the top, this time use the rope grip and face away from the machine. Arms over the head and extend in front of your body. Forearm Crybabies – I love this one! Grab the Olympic bar and stand with great posture. With your pals facing out, grip the Olympic bar about a shoulders width apart. With one hand rotate the bar towards you. Then continue the rotation with the other hand. So it’s like you are rolling up poster board or gift wrapping paper on a tube. If you can make it to 50, give yourself 20 seconds and do it again. This time however, reverse your grip so that your palms face behind you. Bicep Exhaustion – Grab that band again! Place one foot in the very middle of the band and grab a handle in each hand. Now do as many curls as fast as you can in 30 seconds! Repeat after a 20 second rest. Forearm Exhaustion – I could try and type this one up, but once again a video is far better at explaining it. https://youtu.be/bAyDD3B_Cgc Now run to the bathroom and take a picture of yourself and how swollen you look! No seriously, do it. You will want the motivation! After that, go do 30 minutes on the treadmill and call it a day. OK, I think that is everything. I know it is a fricken book, but I was trying to be through as possible. Any questions or feedback is welcome!

I'd say I've gained a *bit* of muscle...

I just had to double check the costco website, manufacturers have several "recipes" for different products. The one on Costco website is this: https://www.costco.com/Muscle-Milk-Light-Chocolate-Shakes-11-oz.%2c-18-pack.product.100282744.html And the ingredients list no whey?! Now I am not saying Muscle Milk never includes whey, because I know I've seen it before. If what you are seeing is like this one: https://www.amazon.com/Muscle-Milk-Protein-Powder-Vanilla/dp/B0106ZJ4R8/ref=sr_1_3_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1498569079&sr=8-3&keywords=muscle%2Bmilk%2Bpowder%2B100%2Bwhey&th=1 Then yes that is a decent one. I don't care for the taste of muscle milk shakes, so I've never bought the powder. Can't give you any input there. My favorite is Gold Standard.

Can you clarify "addicting"? Sent from my phone. Please forgive brevity and spelling.

If you go by the label, it sounds pretty good. But when you look at the ingredients list you will see that they predominately cheap milk proteins instead of the whey. They have some whey in them, but that is usually last on the list in their protein blend. Spending that much on a protein, it should be 100% whey. Especially if they are marketing themselves as a lifters protein source.

damn thing posted twice. Sorry.

Many times a person will no longer post if they do not get the desired response from a thread. Or many will stop coming or posting if they continue making poor choices with their diet and health. On the flip side, some people feel so chastised that they just stop coming.

Glad to see you are still rocking the gym Tink. I really need to update my routine on here. I don't do most anything on this routine anymore if you can believe that! I have simplified a lot and focused on strength versus size/ aesthetics. I looked better last year, but I am pulling 65 more pounds on the deadlift, 75 more on squats, and about the same with bench press.

I am neither endorsing nor recommending this product other than to say I have used it: https://www.amazon.com/Ancient-Nutrition-Protein-Turmeric-Servings/dp/B01DOEL8CM?th=1 Tumeric flavored bone broth powder. The problem with it is the fact that it is a poor protein, collagen. This is not a protein that has any great efficacy with muscle growth or retention. It can't hurt, but it is not really giving you the same bang for your buck in regards to usable protein. But it is at least better than Genepro. Pretty much any unflavored whey protein powder would work with a heavily spiced or seasoned mashed vegetable IMO. While I do enjoy a great tasting meal, an OK tasting meal that meets my macros is far more worthwhile IMO.