snuffy65

How is knowing the definition of life ridiculous? Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot its ridiculous for a court to make decisions based on scientific facts and little things called proof. Hell, now who's the one acting like the slave driver making the slavery arguement. That black man doesn't look like the rest of us he must not be human. Let's ignore scientific evidence! Also, thats one definition and there are may others that have different opinions. Nothings official. And again, there are tissues that can be supported with medical help that would be defined by that definition. So back to tissue arguement with you.

What makes yours right? This statement makes me sad.

But this is your belief. Not scientific fact, which is why I used the skin analogy because every scientific definition of life that supports your argument would in turn make living skin "life". The FACTS are this. Scientifically we know and can define what "living" tissue is. however, no scientist will make the claim that they know what the phenomenon "life" is or how it is defined. Now given the very small differences between "living" tissue and a fetus and add the number of social and ethical dilemmas of declaring life starts at conception. I think we are better off with the current court decision. I don't mind anyone arguing differently. But please (not directed at gadget) stop making claims that a 8 week old fetus IS life and rather say its your belief. Because "life" has not been defined. Me and other pro-choice people mostly "believe" that life doesn't start till later on. Which is why we say "we don't want to impose our beliefs on other people".

Yes, I understand the premise of the movie. And I still don't know how the Hitler/Darwin theory connection fits in, other then diminish the people who persecuted the intelligent design scientists. However, after reading the synopsis and reading the complaints put forth towards these "ID" scientists were not that they disagreed with them but that they would write papers and make up theories based on non scientific data. Which is funny, cause this sounds like the same approach that the movie is taking. Its a deal. This will be my last remarks until I have seen the movie.

Thats funny. I was lucky in that my doctor actually ws the one to bring it up not me. I would have never thought about doing it if it wasn't for him. On a side note, everyone here should be proud we have a fellow Michigander as the face for lapbandtalk forums. Grats Boo! You look great!:glare:

To be fair and hopefully alleviate your unhappiness I don't think they were comparing black people and fetus'es. But rather comparing the arguements for pro-slavery and pro-choice. The analogy comes into play when people argued black people could be slaves since they are not a human being. Like wise, pro-choice people say women can get abortions since the fetus is not a human being. Now with that said. I could see why they would compare slavery with abortions as equal evils, Because they believe human beings are being murdered everyday legally. Of course Hindu believe cows are sacred and that rats hold the souls of the fallen. But I don't see many hindus in front of Mc Donalds shooting managers when they come out. :glare:

Sorry, I quoted you but the response wasn't directed to you. It was directed to all those documentaries, politcal commercials, tv shows, and others that try to compare everything thing to Hitler to make it more provocative. It gets old and rarely is the anology even legit. The question is why should it be mentioned? Hitler wanted to speed up Darwin's theory by eliminating what he thought to be lesser races so evolution could take over more quickly. What does that have to do with anything about the movie except to demonize the scientific commmunity for their beliefs? There are Christian and Muslim leaders trying to start world war III so that their savior will come. Does that mean the bible isn't true, cause some nut jobs want to blow up the world. I plan on it. Just not paying full price for what looks like a "Michael Moore" type film. You know Michael Moore, the one who likes to compare Bush to Hitler to prove a point. I ain't knocking the film completely before watching it. But from what I hear it trys to hard to prove absolutley nothing. But again, I will reserve complete judgement until after I seen it for myself.:Dancing_biggrin:

I am from the Saginaw area. Gratz on a successful surgery! Like I aid earlier the only "gray" area was my "6 month" diet records. But my doctor highlighted where he told me I was overweight and needed to do a 1800 calorie diet and noted all my weigh ins. I think what put me over the top on this protion was his leter stating I tried everything.

My current Doctor I had for only a year. I did call my other docotor of 2 years to send my medical records. I only saw her like 5 times over those two years so there wsn't much added to the packet from her. FYI I was at a 36 BMI most of the time I saw her. So the insurance company could have denied me maybe becuase I wasn't at 40+ BMI the last 4 years. I beleive they wanted 4 years medical history not "weight history". I could be wrong though.

I think alot of people expect too much also when they lose alot of weight. I know I did, when I lost tons of weight in college. I went from 295 to 165 and the whole time I thought I would be a new man. Don't get me wrong, I felt alot better, I was more active and joined more social circles. However, the confidents was there but not the knowledge. I didn't know how to be outgoing "mentally". Basically I was the same shy guy in a new body. I since then gained my weight back after getting married. I think it will be different this time because I am older and have my "set" of friends and won't have to start new ones. Bottom line, losing weight will get you noticed more and first impressions are alot easier to handle. However, being skinny doesn't just give you the ability to hold new relationships and activities only makes them easier to start.

Just wanted to tell people who have this insurance what I had in my "packet" of stuff. I had my sleep studies in there with notes about sleep apnea. My test results for GERD. My doctor noted 8 months ago that I was overweight and wanted me to go on a 1800 calorie diet. He went on to weigh me every month and did my vitals. He didn't make any other notes. Then last week he dictated two letters for my packet. One saying I am fit enough and I am a good canidate for sugrery. The second letter stated I tried dieting and I had ups and downs and that WLS would help me. Also, included was my results from the psychiatrits visit. Hope this helps anyone with BCBS of Michigan. I'm so excited. Now just have to wait for my surgery date.

Yes cause we all know linking anyone or anything to hitler will get people "thinking". I haven't seen the movie but I am sick and tired of everyone comparing everything to Hitler. If Hitler read mother goose stories to children, would that mean mother goose is a nazi? People have taken stuff out of the bible (including Hitler) to preach their horrid beliefs? Does that make the bible evil or untrue too?

This just isn't true. Read this article and in the first paragraph the author notes that there is 280 different definitions of "life". So what do we do? Only point out the ones that support your side? Now, on a side note, I am guessing 80% of definitions would support your theory that a fertilized egg is "life". However, most of those definitions can define a peice of human skin tissue as "life" as well. So, please do not say its a scientific fact tht you are killing people when its not. New Scientist Space Blog: Life defined

Jenn that was a great post. The only contention I have is that there is still no "official" scientific definition of life. There are lots of theories, but we haven't defined it yet. Roe v Wade the courts had to define it by law and had no scientific definitions to go by. Which is the reason they went with 23 weeks. This is why this argument will continue. Because its a scientific argument, not theological. This also is why I am on the fence on this. And whenever I am on the fence I normally will go tot he side that doesn't effect my family and also doesn't infringed on someone elses rights.

1. your in rants and raves (anything goes!). 2. You attacked lower bmi people, like they aren't deserving enough. 3. Lastly, you tell people not to post any help. You left everyone else in no other choices on a response. Now for my rant. It's nobodys fault you didn;t get covered. Your insurance can cover it unless your company says so. Your company doesn't want to pay the rider. You don't want to pay anything. Yes some people get lucky and some people don't. However in my personal opinion. If you don't want to spend the $17,500.00 or research any other alternatives then maybe the band is not for you. The band takes alot of effort, and if your giving up already then you won't put the effort in the band. One last thing. Other then "rants and raves" forum I almost never seen a hostile or belittleing post. And if there was one it gets moved or removed pretty fast.

Looks like a good movie. I just hope Ben is better at making movies then market predictions. :rolleyes2:

Ya, the only reason WLS are getting to be moneymakers is because they are proven and insurances are covering them more and more. Honestly, a leading doctor in Lap Band surgeries thinks docs should be sued for putting them in and he is still doing them? First lawsuit that is won against the Lap Band and doctors will drop it quickly. Especially prominent ones.:rolleyes2:

Wheres your proof? Its hard to become customer focus when costs get out of control and it is no longer feasible to give the came amount of service then before without raising prices. Free country, they can have that policy. Have you seen their business plan? What would yours plan be? :biggrin: Your calling them overpaid, bad managers, and have bad accountants without one number to support you. Who's slinging the BS? And what happens when your fixed costs goes up? You need to cut somewhere? Again, what if your fixed costs go up higher then you can manage? They have, remember all the strikes after they did that? Remeber they removed all the free meals. Remember all the extras you use to get? Thats all gone to fixed costs, not execs pocket and definitly not ticket fees. Done this too. Although, not sure what other services airplanes can sell? I know one airline put in a plane filled with bunny girls for trips to Vegas, that was interesting. They are a airline, not Walmart. Smartest thing you said here. I know your being sarcastic but you shouldn't be. Ask most economists. Airlines are like every other business in America, if your not efficient, theres 10 more companies waiting to be better. Most economists will tell you let them fall and let someone else take over. Thanks for the 9th grade business lecture. With all this I leave you with this one last thing. If airlines had it so good, a great profit margin, and execs were making hand over fists (compared to other companies). Don't you think some other entrepreneur would step up and create a "customer centric" airline? I know Jet Blue is kinda that type of newer airline, but what you know, they are having problems too.

then why support a law or court decision to force companies to conform? This I agree with. If they offend people they will lose business and another business will pick up the slack. See that is capitalism, letting the market determine what is needed. Socialism is the government telling the companies they have to. Which was what the court decision in Canada did. We call them centrists or moderate conservatives here. Not trying to start a war here. I didn't think Canada was filled with lefty wackos. However, the fact remains Canada has more socialist laws and programs than we do which was the point of Plain. Not being rude but just stating facts. As a matter of fact, the American dollar has fell below the Canadian dollar. So we have nothing to gloat about.

HAHA, what kind you getting? Sorry thread hijacker here@

These are wise words :biggrin:

Sorry but compared to USA, Canada does have more socialist laws and policies then we do. Not calling Canada bad, but stating the truth. And just what is a far right liberal? Thought they are only in Poland.

You mean you want to make a company respect all? If I put time, money, and effort into starting a company I sure the hell will want to run it the way I want to (unless I infringe on someone constitutional rights).

Linus never existed either.

I found this article researching fuel prices. Found it pretty interesting. Algae Farm to Produce 4.4 Million Gallons of Experimental Jet Fuel | Autopia from Wired.com