Wayne Hunt

In April 2014, I underwent a Gastric Bypass surgery. My highest documented weight was 327.8 pounds. That's not my highest weight ever, just the one time I happened to go to the doctor. I'm guessing my real high weight was somewhere north of 350 at one point. Anyway, 6 months after surgery, I'm fluctuating between 219.7, and 223.2 pounds depending on the day really... I'm pretty much where I need to be, but I'm now scared of the "sophomore bounce" (that 10-20 pounds patients typically gain back later on)... My problem -- hence this post -- is that I'm having trouble caused by my nutritionist's demands that I "eat three meals a day +2 shakes" even if I'm not hungry... I understand what she's trying to say. She is reading from the generic textbook and lumping me in with everyone else, trying to make sure I get my Protein and other needs met. The trouble for me is that her nagging voice in my head is causing me to do nothing but sit here and think about eating all day long... Because her idea of a "meal" and mine differ greatly, I'm truly scared that I'm doing myself harm by eating constantly just because it happens to be a meal time, or because I'm "supposed to" be eating 3 meals a day... I'm constantly stuffed, sometimes to the point of being ill, but now I'm at the point where if I'm not eating, I'm thinking about eating, and that's scaring the bejeebus out of me. I'm not specifically blaming her for my issues. I know this is all psychologically in my head, but I'm just trying to fight between her voice in my head urging me to constantly eat and my own "diet mindset" to simply not eat anything at all until I'm actually hungry... In the meantime, I've gone from 300 calories a day post surgery (liquid diet) to having trouble staying under 1500 calories a day now... (For the record, when I ask her "give me a number of calories I'm supposed to stick to", she just tells me "I'm not worried about calories" which truly pisses me off, because I *need* some imperical number to serve as a guide...) Any help or constructive input would be appreciated, Wayne

Not too many responses at all. They've all been valuable input, and greatly appreciated. I do journal religiously using MFP (217 day streak currently), That may be a bigger cause of my stress than I had imagined because I see the trends for calories going up and up over time, while I'm sitting at the same 3 pound range for the last couple of months.. I *generally* obey the 30/30/30 rule when eating and drinking at meal time (no Fluid 30 minutes before, take 30 to eat, no fluids 30 minutes after). OCCASIONALLY I find the need to break that rule when I eat something that doesn't quite go down right (like dry, white meat chicken for example) but generally, I do pretty well at it. re: support groups. Inova has one meeting per month, and it's really helpful, but it's simply not enough (for me) to feel like it's any real level of support. We gather, share "war stories", then we go home. I will check into OA though to see if maybe that would be what I'm looking for. Part of my problem -- unlike most people -- is that when I started this, I'm a thousand miles away from "home". I know almost no one outside of work, so I don't really have a great support system of family or friends nearby. If I did, maybe this wouldn't be as big an issue for me. Where "dieting" is concerned, and it bleeds over into this journey, is that I'm a data geek. I live by imperical numbers. Numbers I can wrap my head around. When I was doing WW, I used to print every day out, log it, chart it, et cetera until I could see what was going on. Being post op at 6 months, it's a different experience than simply dieting. I'm fretting about getting everything I'm supposed to (chart wise) while dealing with a team that seems to want me to overeat (in my opinion) and since I don't need any encouragement there AT ALL, I'm just feeling a bit passive aggressive over the idea of being pushed in the wrong direction by my nutritionist... Crazy or not, that's where I'm at right now... (HUMOROUSLY an on a serendipitous note, my custom car tags just came in last week. The customized plates read "CRAAAZY"...) Wayne

Suddenly, I can't get Billy Joel out of my head... "You may be right. I may be crazy..." Seriously though, The only time I've dealt with therapists (psychologists, whatever you want to call them) all they did was spout generic Weight Watchers BS at me -- much like my nutritionist is doing now. I fully and openly admit that 75% of the problem resides in my own head, but what tends to push my buttons is that I'm not getting anywhere near the support I need from the people who're supposed to be providing it. The mandatory 6 month "training courses" were nothing more than "weight watcher light" groups where the (same) nutritionist handed out pamplets telling us to "eat salads, not burgers, but don't use dressing" crap. I'm taking what they're saying now too seriously because I want to be successful at this, and to be told cookie-cutter BS about "eat 3 meals, even when you're not hungry" -- quite frankly -- pisses me off. A bit moreso because now I've been shoehorned into the routine of eating 3 meals a day, even when I'm not hungry at all because -- supposedly -- "that's how you lose weight". See where that might be a bit peevish? I know how to fix it, and it's all on me, but it means that I basically disregard what has been hammered into my head by the nutritionist, meaning that I'll have to listen to her kvetch about it later. I'm just going to have to get back into the mindset of "yes, eat Protein 3 times a day, but only eat when you get hungry" rather than trying to adhere to the maddening "3 meals a day, even if you're not hungry" routine.. Now, I'm going to go back and rewind the Billy Joel running through my head and laugh about all of this for a while. See you at lunch.. Wayne

@@going2servive, maybe I'm weird, but I could take in an infinite amount of protein and it wouldn't deter me from being hungry at all.

That's just it James, I'm 6 months out, and eating a cup, two cups, or even a cheeseburger isn't an issue for me any more as long as it's moist, I eat slowly and take small bites. I don't really get full, just that "one bite, too much, you're sick" level of full. I tried explaining this to the nutritionist repeatedly only to be met with "you're funny" (as though she believes im joking) then she rides my butt about not losing more weight, when all I hear in my head is her yelling at me to constantly eat even when I'm not hungry... I'm flummoxed..

Thanks very much! I appreciate your advice and it all sounds right to me. I just want to lose that last 20 pounds, get to 199 before the sophomore bounce kicks in, and I'm afraid I'm being tripped up by her voice in my head telling me to constantly be eating "a meal"... I'll see if I can get back to the post op diet to see if that kicks me off the 219 shelf and moves me towards Onederland.. Thanks again, Wayne

Before surgery, I was your typical Mountain Dew addled computer geek. It really wouldn't take much for me to drink a six-pack of sodas per day. Then I became diabetic and swapped to diet Mt Dew (with no real hesitation at all). After a couple of weeks, I couldn't even stand non-diet soda (too sweet). When I decided to get surgery, I really did go "cold turkey" and I didn't miss sodas at all because of the sheer determination to have the surgery and get my life back on track. Flash forward to now, almost 6 months after surgery. I haven't had caffeine in almost 8 months. That being said, I'm now completely sick and tired of everything between tea, to kool-aids, to Protein shakes to... well, everything that I've been drinking exclusively for the last six months. Never been a coffee guy, so at least I don't have the Starbucks monkey on my back... This morning, sitting at work, I realized that I was out of little singles packs of Kool-Aid, really didn't want a Protein shake, or Water either. I *know* that I can't tolerate carbonated soda, but I looked in the drawer and found the bottles of Sodastream diet syrups. I decided to make a half-dosed bottle (1/4 cap with 16 oz water and ice) and tolerated it just fine. I had been missing the flavor, not really the carbonation, and the first caffeine after 8 months must be what a crack addict feels like as well. All things in moderation, I get it, but I'm just trying to look for alternatives to drink (not really a plain water drinker) at this point and I hope I'm not screwing up... Any opinions on using said syrups in moderation? Wayne

Today is (hopefully) a banner day. 3.5 months after surgery, I spent the night culling my closet and have three full clothes hampers worth of casual and work clothing to donate to Good Will. Went from 3x and 4x shirts down to XL (so far) and 48/50 pants down to a 42. That, I think, quantifies this as a personal NSV, and makes the whole experience worth it. How did you feel when you got to that point? Wayne

Out of experience, I never try to guess a woman's age. It never works out right for me and there's never a "right answer" My best guess would be low-to-mid 20s. In posting this, I just simply wanted to say -- sideways picture or not -- you're a beautiful young lady and judging by your provile stats, you should be very, very proud of your accomplishments... Wayne

The entire process to me was surprisingly drama-free. The 6-month insurance-mandated waiting period was the hardest part, and biggest waste of time where I was required to do the 6 separate "training classes". Each of those cost me money out of pocket and amounted to FAR less information than I ever got in the average Weight Watchers meeting. The fact that you're diving in and learning on your own is a fantastic thing. "The more you know"... "Knowledge is power", and any other cliches that might be appropriate and all that... If you're forced to go through a similar waiting period, don't freak out, and don't waver. That's what the insurance companies are hoping you'll do, and (I propose) why they do it in the first place. 13 weeks out, I've adopted a saying that I seem to be applying a lot to my own journey (and offering to others as a sign of support.... It's very fitting, and very appropriate to the great things coming your way... It is simply this; "Welcome to the Best of your life" Wayne

Nicole, I've said it before, but it bears repeating... "People" (like this Nurse friend of yours) suck... For the record, none of what you repeated from him is true at all. I'm -- I believe -- 13-14 weeks out now. I've stopped counting.. Eating: I eat what I want, but strongly make every effort to eat right. I just eat very small bits of it, so if I go to Ford's Fish Shack and order a Smoked Salmon dinner, I already know I'll get 3 to 4 meals out of it for the same price I was paying before. Most economical, and most incorrect on his part. Shots: Ok.. A given. For most of us, there are about 2 weeks (14 days) post surgery where we have to give ourselves injections of Lovenox, which is a blood thinner. I'm TERRIFIED of needles, but they made me do the first one in the hospital and I realized that the needles they use now are so incredibly tiny that you don't even feel them... I'm really a big wimpy baby where pain and shots are concerned, so please believe me when I say that for *me* to be able to do it, absolutely anyone can do it. "it messes up your entire gastric system": K? Say Wha?!? What a declarative BS, idiotic, non-statement... It's like the WLS equivalent of "bringing up Hitler in a forum debate".. WLS surgery is a big deal. You may only see the 5 little cuts, but your body takes several months to adjust. That being said, nothing is "messed up". If anything, your gastric system is put to right, where you are then restricted from eating badly. food also becomes like the number one focus of your life for a while as you learn how to eat right. Something that most of us NEVER knew how to do pre-op. The benefits of WLS for "people of size" are extremely well documented. Major, MAJOR benefits which -- depending on your surgery -- are usually long-lasting. Otherwise, the number crunchers at the insurance companies would fight you tooth and nail before spending a dime of the money they've already taken from you... The end result, and I mean this very sincerely is that your "friend" is an idiot. At least where Weight Loss Surgery is concerned. While I absolutely understand your hesitance to share your intent with others, as you've discovered, not everyone is an idiot... My "learn to be quiet" moment came during the 6-month mandated insurance wait when I told a co-worker who instantly said "oh, you'll never qualify for that, you don't need that, I'd never approve you for something like that", etcetera... Now I'm 60 pounds lighter than when I started this process and I have absolutely no regrets... The funniest thing happened though. Ever since my bypass, my aforementioned co-worker has become like the first one in the room who "notices" and compliments me on my progress, so there's hope.. Anyone that gives you negative? "Show them the hand" and just truck on with your bad self. We're here for you, Wayne

Hi, I had my bypass on April 2nd of this year. I'm at that point where I'm still physically not hungry but "I could eat"... I have a couple of questions that I could really use some input on... Eating just because I'm told I have to, not because I'm hungry. Had my followup with the Nutritionist and -- being the data geek that I am -- showed her all sorts of charts from MFP as to calories, She is all over my butt saying "you MUST eat three meals a day, plus your two shakes". I've been doing that anyway, but it's NEVER because I'm physically hungry. Just because she keeps kicking that dead horse. I'm now up to an average between 1000 and 1300 calories a day, sometimes whether I feel or need them or not. (360 to 400 for the shakes, 500-900 for food) It has become a "habit" to eat something and not a "need".. The problem in my mind is that since going from Fluid to mushy to regular (officially cleared), my weight loss has gone from 1-3 pounds a day, to 2-3 pounds a week, to pretty much 1-3 pounds every 7 to 11 days... I "get" the need for the shakes, and I'm doing my best there despite the fact that I'm completely burned out on them, but am I supposed to be eating something when I'm not hungry JUST because it's on some checklist of stuff that the average post-op is supposed to do? It seems entirely counterintuitive. I feel like I'm getting crappy guidance, but there may be a real reason for it. I dunno. Calorie / other counts after surgery.... Again, being the data geek that I am, I go by statistics and charts to tell what I'm doing (right or wrong). During my followup, I asked my nutritionist DIRECTLY "How many calories, how much sodium, etcetera am I supposed to be getting?". Her reply -- which really burns my butt -- was "I'm really not worried about calories or that other stuff right now. I'm just focusing on you getting your protein"... A complete evasion and non-answer which I find useless and non-helpful. At 6'3" and now 245 pounds (down from 300 when I started the surgery route in October), how do I figure out how much *I* need to consume in order to make sure I can get to my 200/210 goal? MFP doesn't account for WLS, so I'm completely in the dark here. The average I'm consuming now, let's say an average 1200 calories, has me stalled at 245 and getting frustrated when I was told by the doctor that I could realistically expect 210/220 pounds... Thanks for any help you might be able to provide. If I'm just being silly, that's ok too, but "be gentle" about telling me that I'm an idiot.. Wayne

Nope. Nothing wrong. Your body is still healing. Bariatric surgery -- despite the 5 little incisions -- is a very, very big deal and for the first time in your life, your body is completely in "WTF!?!?!" mode trying to figure out exactly who "stole your pantry" (stomach) and what it should do about it. Every person here is a little bit different in their reaction to the surgery, but it sounds like you're doing fine and right on schedule... The only thing I might suggest is that you make sure your nutritionist/doctor is in the loop, and seek their assurance that you can't do 64oz at the moment, but you're constantly keeping hydrated to the best of your ability. They'll let you know what they think, but again, sounds like you're ok. Wayne

The big point here is "don't freak out". Everyone who's gone through surgery has been exactly where you are now. Freaking out, questioning everything... I could point you to dozens of my own freak-out threads here in this very forum, but the fact is that you're doing fine. Just rest, recuperate, and adjust right now. Understand that -- even if you desperately wanted -- right now, your body really won't let you "push" things. If you tried (which I know you won't), your body will definitely let you know you've been "bad". Your goal right now is to recuperate, learn, and apply everything to the new life ahead of you. Take care, Wayne

Congrats and welcome to the best of your life! When I was about 4-5 days post-op, I was almost exactly like you. NEVER hungry but tummy always growling. The feeling like you're going to burst is pretty normal, but if I had to guess I would say it's a decent indication that you're taking too big a sip each time. The day I left the hospital, I was getting ready to walk out the door, grabbed the mug they gave me, and -- without thinking -- took what used to be a normal gulp full of Water. Big, big mistake. If you haven't already, you might consider a "sippy cup" and realize that you are NOT expected to be able to drink 64 oz of water per day at this point. 64oz is the goal, not the starting point. Just take a sip, sit down the glass, do something else. In a minute or so take a sip, rinse, repeat for the entire day. The big thing here is to keep hydrated, and keep your throat wet throughout the day. Drinking (and eating) more will come with time as your body heals and adapts to the massive change you've just gone through. Trust me, at 13 weeks or so out, I'm just now starting to deal with cravings again. Not like I'm really hungry. It's all in my head, but it's more like normal where I'd really just like a bite or two of my favorite foods. I order what I want, take a couple of bites, then make 3-4 meals out of the leftovers in a to-go box. It's all good. What you're going through is the physically hard part right now. It gets much, much better. Wayne

I don't know why, but I haven't tried Unjury yet. That being said, my favorites seem to be Bariatric Advantage Chocolate (powder) and the Premier Protein (premix).. I also like Six-star Cookies n Creme and their Decadent Chocolate. Not a big fan of Vanilla powder shakes (too sweet) unless mixed with something like a banana or PB2. I only wish I could understand why Bariatric Advantage is 5x the cost of other brands like Six-Star ($75 for a bag versus $14.88 for Six-Star at Walmart)...

13 weeks out and I can safely say that you're not the only one. I do get hungry. Most of it is in my mind and enforced by the "you must stick to a strict eating schedule" mentality of my nutritionist, but some days I eat way more than I should, others -- like this weekend -- I find myself not eating at all because I'm just not hungry.. I think my cravings are more about getting the flavors than wanting to eat an entire course. For example, I'll go to my favorite local seafood place and order the smoked salmon knowing that I'll end up making three or four meals out of it. I get the taste, I get 3-4 meals. All is good. The one thing that this surgery has given me is a non-negotiable tool. Eating badly now has dreadful (and yucky) consequences which usually involve prayer to the porcelain God Ralph... In essence, surgery to me is about like the equivalent of a dog wearing a bark collar. Bark? Zap. (Overeat? Barf.) That's what I need to train myself to eat well... Wayne

Harley, I can't (obviously) speak for all Dr offices, but mine didn't mandate Bariatric Advantage or anything. Like most, I ended up using Premier Protein shakes post surgery and really loved the chocolate as well. The one thing my Nutritionist said was to be sure and read the label. She didn't care which brand but wanted me to stick to Whey protein. The Premier Protein Shakes primary ingredient (as I recall) was Soy Protein. The nutritionist's (and her phamplets) reasoning was that Whey protein is supposedly more easily absorbed by the body post-op. I can't call this anything BUT coincidence, but about a week after surgery, I was 100% Premier Protein shakes when my body kicked off a Gout flare up, which they couldn't treat directly and took weeks to get over. Now, I'm back to powders for the moment (mostly Six-Star and Body Fortress) but miss the convenience of a chill-and-go premixed Premier shake...

I can't really help with the multi, because I use the Centrum chewable. I'll probably swap to Flintstones or something "fun" when I run out of the Centrum. Mostly because it's time to change things up. As for my Calcium Citrate, I tried the Bariatric Advantage Cinnamon tablets when I first started but found them extremely chalky. On a whim when I was at my doctor's office one day, I picked up a bag of Bariatric Advantage 500mg chewables (the "candy" style) which are more like a caramel square. I figure I'd definitely end up eating 3 of those a day and it's easier than any chalky chewable, even if it's a bit more expensive. Wayne

Morning all, I'm curious... I'm not talking about Protein shakes, but I hear people talking about mixing unflavored protein to food/recipes and I'm just wondering... How? Are there any specific recipes or suggesions as to how to (and how much) add protein powders to food? For example, I can't imagine adding an entire scoop of protein to a can of soup/chili. My question is mostly about the quantity, and how you account for the protein addition on sites like MFP? For example, a "heaping scoop" (44g) of Protein powder is a little less than 2 ounces. That's too much to add to a 15 ounce can of anything without messing up the consistency or flavor in a really bad way. One scoop is generally between 25 to 30 grams of protein, so if you only add a tablespoon or two, how do you figure out how many grams of protein that is for just a tbsp? It's so confusing, and for anyone who adds protein to their food, I'm sure we'd ALL love some suggestions as to how to do it right... Wayne

Just so you understand, "people" suck... "People" around you, even friends and family, sometimes don't know how to be supportive. They also have to deal with both their own weight issues and in some cases find it easier to try and "sabotage" you than fix their own mess. WLS changes things. You. Your body. Your mindset. Your relationship with food. Your relationship with other people. Some changes are phenomenal. Some changes are difficult. The trick is the realization that you decided to make this change for yourself. You may have to work to assure other people that you're still the same "you" but if they're truly friends, you'll all find a way... For me, it's been interesting because pre-op, I was a standing, daily member of the "lunch crew". Now, I have to actively ask them to participate because it seems like they're afraid to invite me to lunch. Our relationship has changed in that respect because we had food as a primary "interface"... Now, I have to assure them that -- while I might eat tiny bits -- I still do eat food.. At my last support group meeting, a fellow attendee said "WLS doesn't automatically change your relationship with food".. I would politely disagree. Before surgery, I ate what, when, and how much I wanted but now food and I tend to disagree a lot more when I misbehave... Food and I have gone from a "love affair" to a "tolerated roommate" scenario, and that's not a bad thing.. Wayne

Just for the record, I'm now 11 weeks out from surgery and for the first 6-8 weeks, I was ALWAYS weak and tired as my body struggled to adjust to the change from 2000+ calories a day to under 400 calories a day (all protein)... Once you go mushy, then regular, your strength will return and you'll feel a lot more like "you". My weight loss has really gone down as I've progressed from liquid to mushy to regular food and I'm now losing about 1/4 pound a day (on average) but the important thing is, the scale is still moving downward, and that's a helluva thing for me. If you have questions, ask. We've all been there and we're all here to help, but as others have suggested, your doctor's office and/or a support group meeting might be the better face-to-face option. (I always feel like an idiot when I ask newbie -- usually what I consider silly -- questions, or point out things, but I'm very glad to have the validation of my local support group...) Wayne

In a previous thread, I was bemoaning the fact (ok, whining a bit) about the fact that my nutritionist wouldn't give me a straight answer as far as how many calories (et cetera) I was supposed to be sticking to post-surgery in order to lose weight... Being the data geek that I am however, I might have been able to figure it out myself but wanted some confirmation of my thoughts. Over the past several weeks, I've been "stair stepping" my weight loss. Between 7-10 days to lose a pound or so. Fat is burned off at a typical rate of 3500 calories per pound, right? Looking over my MFP log, I seem to be consuming between 800 to 1200 calories per day, so given the idea of sitting on a 10-day plateau, running an assumed 350 calorie deficit, can I presume that my post-op "maintain weight" calorie count is somewhere between 1200 and 1300 calories? I know Protein and exercise are more important. I'm now getting my protein (between 70 to 110 grams per day) but I still have physical limitations (and mental ones too) that keep me from exercising as I should. Thoughts? Wayne

Therein lies a lot of my frustration. The "bottled, canned" answers. I understand that since surgery I've gone from a "freefall" to a "slide" to a "stairstep" situation with weight loss and according to friends, that's normal, but to me, it feels like I'm doing something wrong. When I go from daily to weekly weigh-ins and I see no change, I can only imagine that I must be doing something wrong (assuming the scale isn't broken )... At this point -- though I accept my silly premise -- I *feel* like I was doing better on Weight Watchers... For the record though, my body adapted and rejected Weight Watchers at 249 pounds, so the fact that I'm below that is a good thing. The fact that I'm now seemingly stuck so close to that weight is the scary "is it happening again?!" part. Also for the record, your reply WAS helpful and affirming, so I greatly appreciate it. I just want to be my promised 210/220 NOW.. Wayne

PB2 really is one of those "love it or hate it" foods. I *love* Peanut Butter (particularly crunchy) but it's a trigger food. If I have a jar in the house, I will literally sit and eat the entire jar (over the course of a couple of hours anyway)... Same with things like Jelly Beans. PB2 -- while not perfect -- allows me to endulge in one of my favorite little "sins" without the temptation to eat an entire jar. Mixing it with shakes? Yup. Recommended... Now if I can just get powdered M&M's, I'd be golden Just my 2 cents, Wayne