GeezerSue

If you are researching options, consider, too, the duodenal switch. A couple of us here have been revised FROM the band TO the DS. www.duodenalswitch.com It is MORE invasive. However, from one "grazer" to another, it is in my experience, the ONLY reason I am still losing weight instead of regaining. Whichevr you choose, I hope you get the right one the first time out....having to have two surgeries for one purpose is NOT fun! Sue

I was asleep. Old people do that a lot. I'll probably be asleep again in a few minutes. I was at the Bellagio in Las Vegas last week, too. But I was too busy in the casino and spa--mostly the spa--to bother watching weirdos on the strip. However, most people don't realize that until very recently, Las Vegas was a Mormon town and that--except for the strip--the Mormon-flavor of Christianity was predominant in Clark County. I haven't lived there in about fifteen years, but Las Vegas, except for the strip, really had little to do with being Sin City. It was a very decent small town kind of place. Now, here's what I wonder about...going back to the first page...Ron has been here at LBT for two weeks. (and racked up over 250 posts, almost NONE of them having to do with the band or losing weight or any of THAT stuff.) Anyway, he is here--or so it says--at the invitation of "tomorrowsdream," whom he calls "Dee." As coincidences go, there's a tomorrowsdream at OH, who also signs stuff as "Dee," except that THAT tomorrowsdream has the same face as Dody who--I thought--was permanently banned from here. At least the name Dody is not still active here. So who is Dee/tomorrowsdream and who, exactly, is having all the fun on this thread? This place can get confusing...

You can compare atheists to Tinkerbell or komodo dragons for all I care, for--at least--these reasons: I don't speak for all atheists. I don't claim to represent other atheists. (I am not even in possession of the Atheists Secret Decoder Ring, which might allow us to discern what the rules--if there are any--REALLY mean in spite of what they say...all the while insisting that what they say is accurate.) Since there is no discernable relationship between Hitler and atheists, such a comparison would just serve as MORE evidence that what you say makes no sense. Nothing else you say is acceptable to me, why should we bring in stuff like "acceptability" at this point in our relationship? But feel free...no skin off MY nose. See, Ron, MY agenda is not to prove to the world that I have the keys to the magic kingdom...my agenda is just pointing out naked emperors. March on in that pretty new suit!!

Oh..confusion abounds. I don't mock CHRISTIANITY!!!! I have Christian friends...even Christian minister friends...I mock FANATIC FUNDAMENTALISTS OF ANY STRIPE, because they are dangerous and stupid. There is NO difference between the Taliban and the Fanatic Christian Fundamentalists...none. They all deserve my derision.

Is your husband the head of your family as Christ is the head of the church? If so, you would not have noticed.

First, as you have with a number of other words--even big second grade words such as "says"--you have misspelled "capable." But, I figured it out, so don't worry about that, okay? My comments are not mindless...either am I, for that matter. However, YOUR negative attitude toward women--especially those who are demonstrably smarter than you (and of which there appears to be no shortage) is almost palpable...not that very many would WANT to get that close, but that's another thread. What's the REAL story, Ron? You sound very angry and very afraid...too bad. It's most unattractive on a man your age. As we get older, some of us have REAL trouble accepting that the game is in the last quarter, if you know what I mean. But, back to my questions...so you're saying that no amputees have been healed since the time of Christ? Not ONE? (And, btw, the good folks--also Christians--at this ministry don't seem to think that leprosy causes body parts to fall off, but they're probably the wrong flavor of Christianity, so they're wrong, too, huh? http://www.leprosy.org/LEPinfo.html#19 ) Anyway, no healed amputees in over 2000 years? But, we're still saying that God hears your prayers and heals when he is so inclined...he's just not inclined to heal amputees very often, right? And, your health insurance. Are you going for a MediCare Supplement policy or an HMO or just prayer...and hoping you don't have anything you really want to keep get chopped off since we can pretty much count on no miracle getting anything to grow back, huh? I'm just seeing an angry, bitter old man here...afraid of Islam and disrespecting of Jews...where do you stand on Druids?

Scene #3? I'm never showing up in heaven. (Because there isn't one.) Well, the Spa at the Bellagio is Las Vegas may be close, but other than that...

Which "explains" why God NEVER, EVER, EVER heal amputees, right. Either it wasn't in this all powerful and loving God's plan, OR he's imaginary and can't cure hiccups. I didn't say--or even IMPLY--that your story wasn't true...merely that you were using it as a metaphor. (You get that, right?) So, if God heals what he wants healed and things that are NOT healed are NOT healed because he doesn't want them healed--and, assuming that God mostly gets what he wants, doesn't that STILL mean that medical insurance is a waste of money...money that you could be using to publish more tracts to convert more Jews? So, do you have medical insurance and--if you do--doesn't that mean that either...you don't trust God to heal what YOU need healed OR you are going to try to go against God's will and get doctors to try to heal stuff God won't heal on his own? Curious, huh?

I WILL!!! This person noted that you believe in the literal word of God as written in (some version) of the bible. And, that the bible says that Christ can not only heal the sick but cause people to rise from the dead. And, you had a neighbor kid (whom you didn't mind using as a metaphor to tell me about how I'm going to be sorry that I did't listen to you, so you brought him into the conversation to try to prove your point) who got killed by running into the street. So, I logically (you remember logic, right?) asked why you didn't gather a group of people to pray about having God un-dead the kid. I mean the bible DOES say that if two or more gather 'round and ask...right? So, from what I see, you missed a golden opportunity to prove that your God not only answers prayers, but that he can bring the dead back to life. Which brings up the point...do you even HAVE medical insurance? Because that would indicate that you don't BELIEVE that prayer will fix everything in YOUR life, either, wouldn't it?

Why didn't you pray to your God to make the kid alive again? You didn't like the kid or you don't believe that would EVER happen? Seems like gathering a group of devout pray-ers and asking God to change his mind on this one should be enough to do it, right?

Well, here's an intelligent voice that I think merits attention, but--of course--those most needy will NEVER hear the message: Nobel winner assails religious intolerance in L.A. visit Wole Soyinka of Nigeria calls faith this century's defining issue, and says fundamentalism is the greatest threat to world peace and democracy. By K. Connie Kang, Times Staff Writer January 27, 2007 Religion, Nobel laureate Wole Soyinka says, is the 21st century's defining issue — just as W.E.B. Du Bois predicted race would be for the 20th century. On one level, he says, spiritual practices can enrich humankind. But religious fundamentalism is the greatest threat to peace and democracy in the world today, according to Soyinka,the Nigerian writer who won the 1986 Nobel Prize for literature. Here's the rest: http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/california/la-me-beliefs27jan27,1,2911522.story?coll=la-headlines-pe-california Meanwhile, it would be nice if the self-anointed, self-appointed would stop trying to hit others over the head with their imaginary friends. Ron, you are--one day--going to die and then you will--unless cremated--rot. You will then be "done," "finished," "all gone." IF I AM WRONG, feel free to return to the earth from the hereafter and help all the needy hear your blessed message. At that point, you MAY be in a position to make a point or two among those of us who live in a reality-based world. Meanwhile, what bothers me the most about this entire debacle is that you will never know how wrong you are...but then a lot of people have gone to their graves convinced the earth was flat or that the world was ending that day or that Jim Jones and Ron Koresh actually KNEW something...and you will be metaphorically joining them in eternal--or until some religious war causes the planet to be blown up--wrongness. Even Saddam just checked out thinking HE was the president of Iraq.

Our daughter's friend has a five-year-old. He has an imaginary friend. AND he has a little brother who is three and is, of course, strongly influenced by the big brother. Now the boys argue about who gets to sit next to the imaginary friend AND about what, exactly, the imaginary friend said. So I feel right at home watching all of this.

Actually, "success" is a medical term and refers to the loss of at least fifty percent of one's excess weight. People who lose less than 50% of their excess weight--with any surgery--are declared as having had a "failed" procedure. She was apparently not on a decent diet. With the band, I COULD NOT be on a decent diet, because of the damage the band was causing. The problem here is--like it is becoming with the band as more people get their insurance to cover it--that people have wls and expect to just carry on as though nothing had happened. You can't do THAT with ANY wls. Yeah, my iron came back a bit low at my one-year labs. I panicked. And then I pulled my PRE-DS labs...the ones done while I was banded and couldn't eat a decent diet. My iron was in better shape post-DS than it was with the band. But you know, it depends on where you started. If someone who weighed 350+ and was on her way to an early death has had three iron infusions but other than that can WALK, can GET OUT OF A CHAIR, can TIE HER SHOES, can DUMP THE CPAP MACHINE, can LOSE THE INHALER, etc all for the price of a few hours of iron infusions...well, I know which one I'd choose. About iron...when banded I couldn't eat most iron-containing meats. I couldn't eat Cereal. Last night, I had top sirloin steak for dinner (which contains 25% of the MRD of iron) and I'm about to have a bowl of Trader Joe's Raisin Bran (which contains 60% of the MDR of iron) for MY FIRST Breakfast. (Later on, there will probably be a cheese omelette and a little bacon.) In other words, my diet post-DS is probably healthier in that I CAN eat things that contain iron...I just have to be careful to eat enough. (Now THERE'S a problem I can live with.) Easy! She was trying to say that--on a percentage basis--not enough banded people actually get to a low enough weight that saggy skin is a problem. I was banded in 2002. I know LOTS of banded people--in person, even. MANY if not MOST of them are still on the high end of "Obese," and a good number remain "Morbidly Obese." Sure...SOME do well. But the "success rate" (see above) is not high enough that the juice (so to speak) is worth the squeeze. And, if you lose enough weight with the band to be healthy and if you don't have complications, things will be just as you have planned. My best friend is from Alabama. She often says, "If we had ham, we could have ham and eggs...if we had eggs." Your comments show me that you either just don't "get" what is being said or you choose to factor out the reality of Morbid Obesity. So, does my poop stink? Yes, unfortunately, it does. So I had to cancel all the gatherings I had where I invited other people in to smell my shit. ??? Who CARES if it stinks? They make room deodorizer for a reason and if I'm really concerned I can take a Pepto-Bismol tablet. What REALLY counts in my bathroom is that I can now wipe my own ass without contortions. And you wrote "just another indication of malabsorption" as though it's a BAD thing. Uh...that's what makes the surgery WORK. It is a "malabsorptive procedure." You write: I have yet to read ANY recommendations with lapbanding for "needing" to take a multivitamin (it's always recommended for everyone), or extra calcium or iron. No need for extra Protein or labs to check Vitamin and mineral levels, either. And therein lies a real problem. As I said, my labs were better post-DS. Why? Because, since the band is restrictive and not malabsorptive, people (doctors and patients) FOOLISHLY assume that their post-banding diets are healthy. Too bad THAT'S a false assumption. And the problem gets worse for those who consistently barf up their meals (lovingly called PB'ing...bullshit, it's vomiting without the stomach acids, vomiting anyway.) THOSE people may have really off-kilter labs and have no clue...because they all think that since the band SURGERY (that one-hour part of the process) is so safe, everthing that happens after the surgery is safe. Not so. Lactose Intolerance Problems? First, I'm not a big fan of cow's milk...I think it's for baby cows. I RARELY fed it to my kid, since a number of ethnic groups (and I'm one of them) have lactose intolerance problems. But, since the Dairy Lobby is SO successful and so many people think it's essential, I'll tell you the seret. The more FAT there is in a dairy product, the less lactose there is. So, while I avoid non-fat and low-fat milk like the plague, I'm sitting here drinking coffee with half-and-half...sometimes I use cream. And that experience is valid because it is YOUR experience. MY experience includes not having been able to eat a salad for the three years I had a band, and having to know how much bread was hidden in someone's meatloaf or crabcakes, so that I didn't barf up gobs of slimy mucous. It meant that I was "plugged up" after two bites of broiled fish and all i could "eat" (while feeling famished) was a little coffee or something that would melt on the way down...like ice cream. It meant having esophageal damage and having to have the band removed...so, in my case, no, the band was not "healthy." But then NO wls surgery is without its faults and risks to our health. It's just that with the DS, the problems I have (see poop above) are accompanied by a 98 pound weight loss. I'm still "obese," with a BMI of 32, but when I got out of Basic Training in the Army (and that process doesn't produce a lot of fat people) my BMI hovered between 24 and 25, with is either normal or overweight...so I'm not aiming for a BMI of 22 or anything and I'm still losing. It will be reassuring for some people (and they usually PM me to learn more and I welcome those inquiries) that, if the band was the wrong choice for them, there ARE other options. Sue

Oh, but that we could convince his self-appointed, self-anointed spokespersons of THAT novel concept...

Don't try to confuse me with fancy wargames, or you'll be dipped in hot bacon drippings courtesy of the spirits of the North American Jewish Warlords.

Hell, I'll have a party and they can ALL come and condemn me to eternal...whatever it is...that they can collectively agree upon in terms of damnation...the Gods, Allahs, Santa Clauses, Tooth Fairies, Flying Reindeer, Flying Horses, Translating Stones, Heavenly Fathers, Pastafarian Dudes, the North American Jewish Warlords and the Great Pumpkins. There is no god, there is no afterlife; when you die, you rot; there are no miracles, no angels and no Satans. Try to consider the concept that we are finite, there is no Big Brother in the sky, that shit happens whether you pray about it or not, and that you are being used...BOY are you being used...unless you are the one doing the using... MOST of the time, when trying to have an meaningful conversation with the anointed, I end up WISHING there were a God...one who believed in justice, because what a hoot THAT would be. But, alas and alack...it's just the short guy behind the curtain...

You want an INTELLIGENT discussion of an imaginary being? Okay..here--in ten minutes--is pretty good evidence that you are delusional: [ame=http://youtube.com/watch?v=HVuw1wEuaAQ]YouTube - How do we know that Christians are delusional?[/ame]

To me, the issue is what defines those "beautiful models." As long as they are in the store windows and the public thinks it's okay, the STORES are definfing beauty.

You apparently do not understand the role of the State DOE. And, you left out this part: HISTORY The Institute for Creation Research was first established in 1970 by Dr. Henry M. Morris. From the beginning, ICR’s mission has focused on research, media, and education in those fields of science particularly relevant to the study of origins. Originally formed as the research division of Christian Heritage College, ICR became autonomous in 1981. http://www.icr.org/discover/index/discover_history/ The California State Department of Education will approve almost ANY group's request to teach its own cult its own hogwash at its own schools. Why? Politics and the money/influence of rich, white Christians who have chosen either NOT to give to the poor or not to help them as much as they could help, because they need to save some of the money to make sure they are involved with the politicos so that their agenda can be promoted. Meanwhile, back in the real (scientific) world, the good folks at Stanford said: http://daily.stanford.edu/article/2006/2/17/opposeCreationism

BTW, Ron...since God is in charge of all this and since gluttony is a sin...why are you BOTHERING with a band? Why not just pray to stop sinning? Don't you trust God to fix it for you? I mean..faith and all....

So...did some ancient dog sin, too? My friend's dog had cancer, so I figured...

Bored? No. Amused? Yeah. Every day, about 27,000 kids are dying due to starvation. Your god hasn't gotten around to solving THAT little problem but has fixed your back pain and is working on your overeating issues. What a guy.

And here's a discussion of just that issue: http://tinyurl.com/2hz245

I feel like I'm on the kindergarten playground listening to kids argue about whose imaginary friend said what...

And your original phrase serves so well to cast you in the role of victim and those who disagree with you in the role of perpetrator, but I'm sure that never crossed your mind either. And "completed Jew?" How fucking condescending your friend sounds. :::Backing out of room, too busy watching water seeking its own level and all to turn around:::