I'm not one to judge others without knowing them/all the facts, but this one burned me!!! I watched the announcements of the Octuplets being born, and thought; well it must have happened due to follicle stimulation because no Dr. would do invitro with 8 or more embryos. Yesterday I watched as the experts gave their opinions with the same conclusion I came to. There was no way any of them would have done invitro with that many eggs and they would turn someone away who wanted that, so they also felt it must have been egg stimulation that caused this.

Now this morning I learn that the mother, who is currently living at home with her mother, already has six children (we know nothing about the father)!!!! And here's the kicker...it WAS invitro!!!! Holy Cow!!! I get that there are crazy people out there, so I'm writing the mom off as nuts, but what the heck happened to regulating and having rules about ethics for this for the Drs.??!! What's next...cloning? Know that I have family members and friends that have been helped by fertility specialists, so I know the benefit in using one, but this guy crossed the line. Just MO.

Really, what makes you an expert regarding these 8 babies.

I'm no more an expert on them than any of you.

Additionally, how do you actually know the true cost of taking care of these 8 babies?

I'm using an educated guess, just like the rest of you who seem to know the outcome of her 'selfcenteredness'. If you calculate the cost of caregivers needed X the hours in a day any one can figure it out. Duh! (I was ONLY figuring the cost of care givers, not ALL their expenses)

Are you related to oct-mom? Do you have some inside knowledge?

Just curious, because on Dr. Phil, both octo-mom, the Angel Nurses, and the doctor's at Kaiser were all very clear that these babies need special care when they go home. And that this care would cost a great deal of money, since the babies require nurses.

So, are the doctor's at Kaiser liars? Do they not know the true needs of these babies?

I got my sorce from you! You stated yesterday that all 8 babies had chromosome tests and all are healthy.You said it was good news. 1 has a cleft lip, and there is no down syndrome. (and even if there was, they don't require a nurses care. My friend brought her down syndrome baby home and cared for her herself) This was from Dr. Phils show, you said.

I'm no more an expert on them than any of you.

C'mon, even YOU don't believe that. Every single thing that is said about octomom, you have some retort that is based on fallacy and outdated info. EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. You seem to think you are the expert. :confused:

While a CNA might be capable, for you or I, going home taking care of 1 baby, without the baby being a preemie, and without the eyes of the world upon you, it will not suffice for this situation. There are things full fledged nurses, especially those who specialize in neo-natal issues, know and are able to do, that a CNA cannot.

There is a reason for the additional school, and thus the additional pay.

Possibly one of the first things they learn in their advanced classed on neo natal issues is that once a preemie, always a preemie. It will figure into their lifetime care! Not only their care til they get home or the magic 5 pound figure which is not in use in most places anymore...

I am sorry Patty, I truly do not mean to pick at you, but that blows me away that you are a CNA and actually even with the training you have received, only perceive the babies to be preemie until they reach a normal babies birth weight!

THAT alone tells me why they need full fledged nurses with additional training.

The kid I grewup next door to was a miracle baby, he was born under 2 pounds in 1959, and lived! The couple next door to us adopted Mike, and he thrived. However when he was 15 and on the school bus, he passed out, quit breathing, the whole 9 yards. We lived out in an oilfield/gas patch plant which was 96 miles away from a hospital---and the school was over 50 miles away--so the bus driver managed to get his heart pumping again, and in the end at 15 he had to have a pace maker! Was a result of his prematurity. He has gone on to become an old man right along with me-in fact our oldest kids were born on the same day....he had 2 more. But to this day his pace maker is a result of his prematurity. It did not go away because he is the same size as other men who were not preemies!

As for octomom, I understand the outrage that she too will benefit from the help she is receiving. But I do sincerely hope the help she is getting will extend to her and see that she has someone to talk to so that she does not go out and try this again, there has to be mental issues at work. And that is not something people choose to have, same as being bi polar--it isn't a choice, and telling them to cheer up is not going to work. Without help, her simply suddenly seeing what a mess this is, is not going to happen. Makes me wonder, if this might not be some sort of mental illness spurred on from the first birth maybe caused by some manifestation of post partum.

This situation will put her under a microscope with many professionals around. Maybe she too can get the help she needs to see this as the most of the rest of the world sees it. And see fit to make sure she does not slide back into the breeding side of things.

Nothing has been said about the Dr. lately, but I bet he is not off the hook yet either. I would hope not, I don't care if he implanted 42 each time, or the purported 6----it is unsafe, and he has lousy screening processes, he is part of the problem without doubt!

Is there anything about you that isn't exactly like octomom's situation? :confused:

Octomom this... "oh yeah, me too!"

Octomom that... "oh yeah, me too!"

Octomom's situation this... "oh yeah, me too!"

Octomom's situation that... "oh yeah, me too!"

Good lord. :w00t::w00t::tt1:

What are you talking about? My being a CNA doesn't compare me with her. I was talking about the cost of CNA's who would care for her babies. Get your info straight before you begin your infamous insulting. BTW, I thought you pushed the ignore button. Please, do it again!

I got my sorce from you! You stated yesterday that all 8 babies had chromosome tests and all are healthy.You said it was good news. 1 has a cleft lip, and there is no down syndrome. (and even if there was, they don't require a nurses care. My friend brought her down syndrome baby home and cared for her herself) This was from Dr. Phils show, you said.

Patty, please re-read my last post. I did not state the babies are not healthy. I stated the babies have special needs, because they are preemies.

Thank goodness the babies are doing well. However, Kaiser Permanente doctors, the Angel Nurses, Dr. Phil, Gloria Allred (sp) and octo-mom stated that these babies because of they were born prematurely, have special needs that require special care from nurses who are trained in neonatal care.

On the Dr. Phil show the Angel nurses did mention some of the special needs pertaining to these 8 babies. They include breathing, thriving, bonding, suckling and immune system.

I found the description of their special needs fascinating. They stated preemies are constantly being poked at and prodded as part of their medical care while at the hospital.

They stated when a preemie is picked up that they tend to shut down and not bond, because they don't know if if they are being picked up for poking and prodding or for TLC.

So yes, thank goodness the babies are doing well. But according to the doctor's at Kaiser these babies require round the clock care when they get home from specially trained nurses. It is one of the reasons why Kaiser has not released the babies to octo-mom yet.

It is why I ask you, do you have some inside knowledge or are the Kaiser doctor's assigned to these babies liars?

What are you talking about? My being a CNA doesn't compare me with her. I was talking about the cost of CNA's who would care for her babies. Get your info straight before you begin your infamous insulting. BTW, I thought you pushed the ignore button. Please, do it again!

I did, but sometimes you're just too entertaining. :w00t:

You DID compare because you know it all. Everything anybody says, you have an answer cuz you know it all. The doctors at Kaiser are wrong because YOU know better. We are all wrong about how she will handle this situation because YOU had 10 and look how fantastic YOU did (no comment :confused:). She won't need a gazillion dollars a month to raise them because you did it with a buck fifty with change to spare. It goes on and on.

She won't need a gazillion dollars a month to raise them because you did it with a buck fifty with change to spare. It goes on and on.

LOL, Way too funny and so true!:confused:

TQuad and Kat - you are giving me an education!

I guess I was technically a preemie - I was born 2 weeks in advance of my anticipated birth date, though I don't think anyone in the medical community in the early 1960's would have labeled me as such.

My DD was a preemie - by a few weeks - she was born in early December, but wasn't expected until February. She does not have a LOT of health issues, but continues to fight winter weather (she catches cold very easily) and allergies (though not debilitating).

I did not know, nor was I ever told about the lifetime care that preemies will need - though I do not put my DD in the same class with Octomom's babies. I think because she was 8 lbs 12 oz (they said she would have been 10 or more had she gone full term) that no one in the hospital considered her a preemie.

I feel for those babies and will continue to keep them in my thoughts and prayers. I do know of other couples that have had premature babies, but did not know of the true ramifications.

Thank you for the education - I am glad that there are knowledgable and rational folk on these boards who are willing to share their experience and expertise with those of us who are willing to admit we don't know everything.

I really do not think Octomom knew what she was doing or what she was IN for...she does not seem to have a good grip on reality.:confused:

As for octomom, I understand the outrage that she too will benefit from the help she is receiving. But I do sincerely hope the help she is getting will extend to her and see that she has someone to talk to so that she does not go out and try this again, there has to be mental issues at work. And that is not something people choose to have, same as being bi polar--it isn't a choice, and telling them to cheer up is not going to work. Without help, her simply suddenly seeing what a mess this is, is not going to happen. !

i 100% agree w/this. i think a mental evaluation & her tubes tied would satisfy me greatly, that and her dr liable for some of the current costs needed to care for the babies/kids.

Kat, I wonder about the doctor in this case as well. I am not sure what the California medical review board is doing other than investigating.

The standard of practice and the rules pertaining to in vitro state no more than two embryos transplanted at one time. He obviously disregarded this rule and thus no doubt will pay a price for his incompetency.

You know what else was just amazing? The Angel Nurses stated it was important for the babies to bond with their mom, but it will be difficult for octo-mom to bond with each baby. Not that it cannot be done, but just logistically you only have so much time and so many arms.

So this is what they are doing, which to me is just fascinating. All the care givers will use lavender lotion on their hands. Babies identify with their parents via smell and touch. With everyone using the same lavender smell at the same time the babies are being loved and cared for, the babies will associate to a positive experience and will bond and thrive.

Also, octo-mom will sleep in t-shirts and each baby will be swaddled in the t-shirt with a blanket too, so they can know mom's scent. Amazing. Each care giver will be trained in how to handle the babies the way that octo-mom handles the babies.

Example: the way octo-mom feeds the babies, each care giver will hold the baby the same way. In that way, each baby will be able to bond with mom. And this technique helps the baby to thrive and avoids confusing the baby. Again just amazing to me!!!!

CNA's are NOT trained to take care of premmies!! CNA's are trained to mostly work in nursing homes and as techs in hospitals. They have very limited medical training. I know, because I used to be one! My training mostly consisted of how to bathe an elderly person, how to feed them, turn them, etc. There is NO training on taking care of premature babies! And when I was doing it, I didn't make much at all, only about $8. That should tell you they are not trained for little babies!

Example: the way octo-mom feeds the babies, each care giver will hold the baby the same way. In that way, each baby will be able to bond with mom. And this technique helps the baby to thrive and avoids confusing the baby. Again just amazing to me!!!!

I can see that working to a point, but eventually they will be able to see well enough to discern that it's a different person each time.

CNA's are NOT trained to take care of premmies!! CNA's are trained to mostly work in nursing homes and as techs in hospitals. They have very limited medical training. I know, because I used to be one! My training mostly consisted of how to bathe an elderly person, how to feed them, turn them, etc. There is NO training on taking care of premature babies! And when I was doing it, I didn't make much at all, only about $8. That should tell you they are not trained for little babies!

Oh, Carrie, you silly little thing, you don't know what you're talking about! :confused:

I can see that working to a point, but eventually they will be able to see well enough to discern that it's a different person each time.

So very true!