I have a dream . . .

If I were to come to these forums as a black person, and someone called me a n!gger, there would be outrage.

If I were to come to these forums as a homosexual, and someone called me a faggot, there would be outrage.

If I were to come to these forums as an overweight individual, and someone called me a fat lazy slob, there would be outrage.

If I were to come to these forums as Hispanic, and someone called me a "spic", there would be outrage.

If I were to come to these forums as a Native American, and you called me a redskin, there would be outrage.

If I were to come to these forums as a woman, and someone said I was worth less then a man, there would be outrage.

But if I come to these forums and say that I am Christian, it's open season on me to bash, criticize, and otherwise act as if I were a lesser individual, a person without feelings, someone not worthy to be treated with any respect.

In my short time here on these forums, and I'm not even banded yet, I have seen people bash Christianity like I've never seen it anywhere before. (And I've been in nursing for over 20 years, and on the internet since it started, so I'm no new kid on the block.) You've called us wacky, you say our ideas are rubbish, you tore apart the reasons for Christmas, you mock the Bible, you mock our belief in God as nothing but a crutch, and you do all of this under the guise of "stimulating conversation".

In many ways, Jesus Christ is still being crucified. Not this time with a cross and nails, but with cruel, thoughtless words and deliberate intent to harm the beliefs of others.

Christians have been treated here, as if there were not PEOPLE behind the keyboards. But they are - hello everyone, we are people with as much intelligence and feelings as you yourselves claim to have.

This is a free country. You have the right to be atheist, agnostic, whatever . . . and I have the right to be a Christian. You don't have to accept my beliefs, you don't have to accept my God, you don't have to accept any aspect of Christianity. You don't want me to insult you for your beliefs, and all I ask is that you do the same - we are all here with a common goal, to lose weight with a device called a lap-band. Why can we NOT treat one another with some respect?

Today is Martin Luther King, Jr. Day. He had a dream. A great American man with a dream, someone I deeply admire:

" . . . I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal . . ."

" . . . I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character . . ."

" . . . I have a dream that one day, down in Alabama, with its vicious racists, with its governor having his lips dripping with the words of "interposition" and "nullification" -- one day right there in Alabama little black boys and black girls will be able to join hands with little white boys and white girls as sisters and brothers . . ."

" . . .And when this happens, when we allow freedom ring, when we let it ring from every village and every hamlet, from every state and every city, we will be able to speed up that day when all of God's children, black men and white men, Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics, will be able to join hands and sing in the words of the old Negro spiritual:

Free at last! Free at last!

Thank God Almighty, we are free at last!"

I have a dream too . . . when can we, as atheists, Christians and all others of different beliefs, agree to disagree on our spiritually, learn to respect our differences, sit down together, join hands and share conversations without insults?

I shall step forward and be the first . . . I accept all of you as you are, I respect you as individuals with different beliefs.

Now can you please accept me as I am - just a another overweight individual seeking release from this prison of obesity, who happens to believe in Jesus Christ? I am not better than you. Nor are you better than me. The dream is to see each other and treat each other with respect. Isn't there enough stress and strain in this confusing and often angry world of ours?

I have a dream . . . Thank-you Mr. Martin Luther King, Jr., for your brave words and inspiration. You have my love and deepest respect. I know God holds you close.

I just ignore them (and pray for them) as much as possible. Sometimes we have to pick and choose our battles. And most of the time, I choose to just ignore a lot of the foolishness aimed at Christianity. We know that they hated Christ, soooo...what can we expect?

But it's all good. And we'll just continue to support and encourage one another...and pray for those who come against us, right? :rolleyes2:

And pippinje: I just have no comment for your last post.

Wasn't asking for one. I am entitled to my opinion.

anger only destroys its container......

Rosewolf,

BRAVO!!! Very well said. I loved your post. The 'I Have a Dream' part was wonderful.

Thank you Cherea, and to everyone else who left such kind words. But I don't take credit for it - "To God be the Glory". I somehow felt inspired last night to make a stand against Christan insults, however subtle (or overt) they may be.

It will be nice to have a Christian forum, where we can go and pray together, and freely share experiences without worry. But I think we should also be able to go anywhere in this entire lap-band forum (even here in rants and raves!), without all the bashing. My whole point is that we should be able to rise above our different beliefs, and try to get along. There are some very nice non-believers here too! No one will ever get me to change my love for Jesus Christ - and I'm not here to try and change anyone else.

And yes, you're right Cherea - we should continue to support and encourage each other, and pray for those who come against us. That's the Christian way - to be gentle and loving to all people. Yes, there are people who often fall short of that ideal - for we are sinners like any one else, not saints. When I fall short, I believe God picks me up and puts me back on the right track.

Onward, Christian Sister and Soldier!

Peace. :rolleyes2:

Regardless of our religious beliefs, faith brings strength. That's something all of us banders can use!

From the posts I've read over the past year or so, people on all sides of this issue overreact from time to time. Everyone has had their turn appearing to be "oversensitive" to someone who held an opposing view.

That being said, no one should be jumping on someone just because of his/her religious beliefs (or lack thereof) in the first place. It's one thing to debate someone with respect and share ideas in order to gain a greater understanding of one another. It's quite another to be attacked and called derogatory names just because of your beliefs. That should not be acceptable behavior anywhere at any time. Hopefully, everyone can agree with that!

From the posts I've read over the past year or so, people on all sides of this issue overreact from time to time. Everyone has had their turn appearing to be "oversensitive" to someone who held an opposing view.

That being said, no one should be jumping on someone just because of his/her religious beliefs (or lack thereof) in the first place. It's one thing to debate someone with respect and share ideas in order to gain a greater understanding of one another. It's quite another to be attacked and called derogatory names just because of your beliefs. That should not be acceptable behavior anywhere at any time. Hopefully, everyone can agree with that!

Well said! I always feel somewhat guilty because I don't want to appear that I am bashing anyone when I jump into these discussions. I would so love to see people explain their own views without criticism of others.

Rose, you initial post was beautiful and extremely well stated. I am ONLY speaking for myself in my response. I was engaged to a fundamental Christian man once. I personally was so turned off by his hatred for anyone or any group that wasn't "Christian". I am Catholic and was told that Catholics were not Christians because we prayed to idols. I have had other experiences with fundamental Christians who have repeatedly shown such hatred towards groups. I am NOT saying all Christians are like this, but sadly, it is my personal experience.

I am a Christian, I have accepted Jesus as my Saviour and welcomed him into my heart. I am a Catholic (Italian Catholic...don't want to EVER change that), and I am a lesbian! I might not fit into anyone's box or explanation of me or who I am. I am NOT going to Hell because of who I love. I attend Mass, praise the Lord, and thank God everyday for my beautiful partner He brought into my life.

But again, your post was so nicely done. You have a calming peace in your heart and it comes through in your writing. I am sorry you've experienced the bashing here. There are many fine people on LBT. Keep looking and good luck in your weight loss journey!

peaceout

That being said, no one should be jumping on someone just because of his/her religious beliefs (or lack thereof) in the first place. It's one thing to debate someone with respect and share ideas in order to gain a greater understanding of one another. It's quite another to be attacked and called derogatory names just because of your beliefs. That should not be acceptable behavior anywhere at any time. Hopefully, everyone can agree with that!

*Applause* Transformer! You summed it all up so nicely, thank-you! :wink2:

Rose, you initial post was beautiful and extremely well stated. I am ONLY speaking for myself in my response. I was engaged to a fundamental Christian man once. I personally was so turned off by his hatred for anyone or any group that wasn't "Christian". I am Catholic and was told that Catholics were not Christians because we prayed to idols. I have had other experiences with fundamental Christians who have repeatedly shown such hatred towards groups. I am NOT saying all Christians are like this, but sadly, it is my personal experience.

I am a Christian, I have accepted Jesus as my Saviour and welcomed him into my heart. I am a Catholic (Italian Catholic...don't want to EVER change that), and I am a lesbian! I might not fit into anyone's box or explanation of me or who I am. I am NOT going to Hell because of who I love. I attend Mass, praise the Lord, and thank God everyday for my beautiful partner He brought into my life.

But again, your post was so nicely done. You have a calming peace in your heart and it comes through in your writing. I am sorry you've experienced the bashing here. There are many fine people on LBT. Keep looking and good luck in your weight loss journey!

peaceout

Thank-you for your kind words Kity! I'm really sorry you had this bad experience with that man you were engaged to (or a bad experience from anyone). One thing that really irks me is when someone claims their religion/beliefs are better than someone else's. (sigh) Hate in any form has nothing to do with God. I keep peace in my heart by keeping my faith simple, a deep love for Jesus Christ (We love Him, because He first loved us. 1 John 4:19), and the belief in loving others as well (And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also. 1 John 4:21). I leave everything else up to God.

You have a beautiful spirit and love for God! I agree, you shouldn't have to conform to anyone's "box" or explanation. We all are on different parts of our own personal path with Jesus. It's a journey. And you said that you were a lesbian . . . well, maybe it's a good thing you're not engaged to that man! lol :Dancing_biggrin: Look into your heart and find the one you really love.

There are many fine people on LBT. Keep looking and good luck in your weight loss journey!

peaceout

Amen to that! There are many fine people here :wink2: It's a blessing to have found such wonderful forums for the lap-band, I have learned so much (and have quite aways to go yet!). Best of luck to you too!

Peace :biggrin:

Well, folks, I have spent the past couple of days thinking long and hard about this discussion and it strikes me that apart from the utterly abusive post which Draz posted there have been few instances where Christians have been assaulted simply because they are Christian. As you well know, there are two threads dedicated to Christians and these are never, ever broken in upon by marauding atheists, Muslims, Jews, or others. And I don't believe that any of you who make reference to your beliefs in your taglines have ever been called up on this by a sneering member of the anti-Christian jihad.

But this is Rants&Raves and this is the zone where ideas and beliefs will be debated, will be challenged. Republicans and Demos are busily bashing each other. The pro-choice/pro-life debate has been raging on for ages now. Islam, and Muslims, have been bashed here. Homosexuals (and the issues concerning their civil rights) have been bashed here in past debates. The invasion of Iraq has prompted heated discussions. Baby Bush is routinely bashed, as is Clinton. Hell, even women and feminists have received a number of smack-downs during the discussions of Hillary's suitability as a Presidential candidate! We have even engaged in discussions as to who may call themselves Christians: it seems that some Protestant groups do not recognise Catholics or Mormons, eh, even though these are folks who worship God the Father and Christ the Son.

Now, when a Christian choses to use their beliefs in order to reinforce their argument whilst engaging in one of these debates, then the nature of this belief system does become open to be challenged for the purposes of the argument. You cannot simply opt to take a side in a debate, then buttress your argument by simply announcing that you are a Christian, and expect that this will suffice. You yourself have opened that door, and your belief system will be challenged. You will be challenged for these discussions pivot on facts and logic and not on your faith.

While your opening post, Rose Wolf, is prettily and glibly expressed, you have made egregious factual errors. Feminists/women, homosexuals, Muslims, and even folks of colour have been slammed here in past posts. I don't really believe that we will be able to all love each other and get along until we are prepared to get down to this business of honest debate.

We are all inclined to indulge in a little hypocrisy, but we will never truly come to understand our brothers and our sisters without undergoing this sometimes painful intellectual and emotional exercise. Rant&Raves serves a valuable role and there are many of us who greatly value it.

What Green said.

And that is spoken as a woman who considers herself a Christian. (Rose your opening post was eloquent!)

Green, You get two thumbs up! :wink2:

That was a well thought post. I may have thought it sometime or another, but it seems like it won't do anything.

I've learned in the real world as well as online, there's some things that are just best not to bring up.

I am a christian, who does not particularly care for the politics of church, and fellowship.. But I have my beliefs and that's enough for me.

So, I don't like to go anywhere and 'debate' things like religion. That's like someone trying to debate with you that the grass is purple. You believe what you believe, it's not going to 'solve' anything. Why bother? I don't see the benefit of debates like that.

But, my 2 cents. I've peeked into religious 'debates' here once or twice, but it's not my cup of tea. It doesn't make sense to me. But I think if there's people out there that gets their jollies from it, let em have it *shrug*.

Oh and I just had to add this, it pops in my head everytime I see 'heated' religious debates. People only get heated because it bothered them..

In an episode of Six Feet Under, Claire who is an artist and in college for art.. is told she's not an artist. She gets so upset. Later, someone told her.. You must doubt that you're an artist. Because that's like someone telling me I am purple. I would laugh at them, because I know I'm not.

People may say something along the lines of ignorance from being religious, or that they know more about the Bible than Christians, blah blah.. and you should just laugh. :wink2: