So yeah, I do. Its pretty much true. Not something I like to admit, but I do admit it. Mostly I worry about getting rid of it. I have to say that while I have always been messy, my DH is worse and I think his issues surrounding the mess are complicating the mess... If that makes sense. But now I'm starting to get issues about it all too. I guess a large part of it is because I had my surgery so recently so I cant do anything at right now around the house. I just don't feel up to any of it. And it wil probably be about a week I guess- at least a few days before I can do anything. And even before the surgery I could only do so much. I do have fibromyalgia and I have the narcolepsy (which isn't controlled that well) and those make doing stuff hard. So I work from home part time (my office is the one neat room in the house-- he has been warned) and I go to grad school part time. So I'm not a house wife as I'm always reminding DH even if I do work from home. I know its messy. But he has to work on it as much as I do. And right now working on the mess and squalor is our top priority I feel or it should be as opposed to his figuring out what size of pex he will need for the bathroom renovation. We have been doing that for months and it will be more months. He can take a break from that and work on the mess that in swallowing us. I think that would be obvious but it isn't to him... At all.

DH has problems with depression and anxiety. He is on meds and those help a lot but the meds are as good as they are going to get. And I think that the depression and anxiety is leading to his problems dealing with the house properly. I keep urging him to consider couseling but now I might have to insist. For example, if left to his own devices he will jsut sleep all day or fiddle around with stuff and then he will complain about not being productive nad it becomes this cycle.

Also he will complain to me about the mess. SO I tell him that we can work on it together and ask him what time is good for him. He never gets back to me. Or I tell him I need him to move something that is blocking the closet so I can put the laundry away and all of a sudden there is a huge problem with the whole laundry system because he just can't be bothered to move it so the laundry piles up and up and up... Or he whines to me about the dishes and when I say I am busy and tell him he should do them he never does. All talk when it comes to the mess but no action at all. And its just getting worse with me being unable to do anything. I was the one who did any and all cleaning that was done and organization.

Another issue is I think he thinks it will be easier once it is all neat but it won't be because keeping things neat is changing habits and so forth. And I tell him this and he gets impatient- he does have ADD. I'm thinking of hiring a cleaning service to come and clean the house and organize it and then DH and I can work on just keeping it clean. That would be difficult enough at this point. And I could get him into counseling to work on some of those issues... Of course I've brought it up to him and he never likes the idea. SO I think I might do it without telling him until after. Don't ask me how to keep him away all day though-- he tends to try and work from home more nad more these days. Another symptom.

Any ideas? I'm worried about our house but also about him.

Congrats on getting your surgery behind you!

We live in squalor here, too. I was never a neat freak, but my house never was a horrid mess until I got married. Here's the funny thing, my husband and I didn't live together until about 2 1/2 years into the marriage, so I can't blame it on us moving in together. I guess it started getting bad about 10 months or so before the wedding. It started innocently enough with things piling up in preparation for the Big Day. We had two weddings (did a "normal/typical" wedding on Halloween night and then had a barn bash/costume/karaokeparty/handfasting on the Saturday following) and as such, there was tons of stuff. Then it just kind of snowballed. I suppose one could possibly read into it that perhaps I have issues with the marriage, but I don't feel like I do. I'm sorry that I can't help you with any ideas about his depression/anxiety, I've never had problems with depression, not on any meds, don't see a therapist and the one I just saw last week for the OK for surgery really put me though the paces and I didn't feel any issues surface that needed to be resolved. I really wish I did have an idea for you, but I *am* like your hubby in that I just can't seem to get motivated to get the place cleaned up. The problem did get compounded when he moved in with me, but in my case it certainly is not my husband's stuff. I never cleaned out my extra crap, and he moved out of a 1200 sq foot 2bed/2bath placed that had a living room, dining room and family room as well as a full basement and a two-car garage into my little 720 sq foot one bedroom/one bath place with no garage, and no basement. In that move he really dumped most of his posessions, so it's not his junk that's cluttering the place.

I am tired of living like this, but if I ask for help, he only wants to throw everything out. Of course most all of it is my stuff and I got the packrat mentality from my parents (it seems). I am having a hard time thinking of parting with a lot of stuff, I know I have to get past it and I purchased a couple of books that I think are helping me. They may help you, too. Though I am certain it can't be this simple, I hope it will help some.

One is: [ame=http://www.amazon.com/Clutter-Busting-Handbook-Clean-Clear-Clutter-free/dp/0802777171/ref=sr_1_10/104-8243594-2905514?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1174260352&sr=1-10]The Clutter-Busting Handbook: Clean It Up, Clear It Out, And Keep Your Life Clutter-free[/ame] by Rita Emmett

The other (and my personal favorite as it is funny and insightful and practical) is: [ame=http://www.amazon.com/Clutters-Last-Stand-Time-junk/dp/1593373295/ref=sr_1_7/104-8243594-2905514?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1174260352&sr=1-7]Clutter's Last Stand: It's Time To De-junk Your Life![/ame] by Don Aslett

I wish I had more ideas for you, and if anyone else has some, I'd be grateful to hear them, too.

I also thought about hiring a service to just come in and clean it, and I've had friends who know (cause I've confided in them about it) offer to come and help me, but I just can't do it. I would be mortified to have anyone see my house in this state. And I can't imagine how a cleaning service would make decisions as to what to keep, what to junk and what to donate to charity?

I have decided to get a large tent structure (like a big screen house thing you eat in in the summer) and set it up and empty the house one room at a time as soon as it warms up. I think that's the only way I'll be able to do it. I've been working on it one box a week, but the progress just isn't there. So I think if I empty EVERYTHING out of a room and then have to put stuff back, like I were moving, I may be able to stop myself from putting all the crap back in. It's a thought.

And this would all be taken care of if HE got better?

Please don't take offense, but as a person who deals with depression, fatigue, fibromyalgia, systemic lupus and a blood clotting disorder, I think I can speak safely from whence I came. This sounds like depression on both your parts to me. I guess I'm not sure why it's all HIS responsibility. I also understand having an unproductive husband. I was married to one for 20 years who had great intentions but never got around to things.

Depression can really prove a person unproductive, but it is treatable and manageable. Learning new productive behaviors is do-able. What are your priorities? What are you willing to do to make them happen? Change one thing... :welldoneclap: Good luck to you. Been there, done that.. and I ain't ever going back.

Leatha great advice.

I would only add pick one thing, only one thing and do it. Do what you can. There will be something easier. Ask him to do one thing only. Take out the trash. Bring you an empty garbage can with a liner in it. Purge. You can sit at a desk and go through the stuff on top and purge. You can move to the drawers and purge. Remember things like this: Makeup is not suppose to be used after six months because of bacteria and such. How many pens do you really need? How long do you plan on keeping all receipts? Move left to right or right to left but do not go to any other part of the room until you get there naturally by cleaning your way to it.

One room at a time. It can be so overwhelming I do know but with those piles comes dirt, germs, bacteria and DUST...ahhhh. I hate dust. Dust is nasty.

I found it nearly impossible to keep up with the house pre-surgery. Even now that I've lost a substantial amount, it's still difficult because, like you said, habits are hard to break.

The one thing that's worked for me is FlyLady.net's rule about working 15 minutes on one particular area. Cleaning house is boring to me...and physically challenging at times. But like FlyLady said, "You can do anything for 15 minutes." And she's right.

It's almost like a game to me. You should check out her website or book and see what you think. The whole "program" is online, so you don't have to buy anything.

I'll forewarn you that she's a little overboard. I DO NOT incorporate all of her ideas. I don't divide my house up into zones, etc. (Although I did try that.) Also, if you register and sign up for the e-mails, you'll soon be getting e-mails in the middle of the work day that say, "Stop whatever you're doing and clean your toilet." So obviously the program was set up for people who don't work outside the house. I have since blocked all e-mails from Flylady. But I love the 15-minute concept.

Here's how I do it:

Once a week, I go through my house and make a list of things that really need attention. Then, I set a kitchen timer and work on that list, one thing at a time, for 15 minutes each. Sometimes I make it all the way through the list, sometimes I don't. Sometimes I do the list over the span of a few days.

What happens, I find, is that I "get into it". It becomes fun and I'm proud of what I accomplish. As a chain reaction, I do a better job of picking up throughout the week and do things that aren't on "the list".

Try it!

http://www.flylady.net/

I agree about FlyLady. I like most of her ideas, but some things I just don't agree with. She's got a few really good books out, too.

No it is not all him, not by any means. But I feel that he has bigger issues surrounding it than I do. And he whines about it but doesn't do anything about it and he is perfectly capable of doing stuff... At the moment thats making me angry. I'm not depressed. Sometimes things will depress me, but I'm not depressed overall. I'm in couseling too to work on some issues that I do have. I don't think its a big marriage problem either. I think the biggest issue here under it all is my husband's issues with depression and anxiety. One of the ways that manifests itself- a big way- is with the house. There are other ways too, but right now this is the biggest. And because they are interated they aren't completely separate issues. Another big issue that relates to the house is discipline and routine and that affects both of us as a couple. For example, if we set aside one hour, or even twenty minutes a day, and used it to clean the mess monster we would start to get ahead and see the changes before too long. But for various reasons we don't do that. I don't want to do it all bymyself because I feel it is OUR mess and we should work on it together, etc. I recognize that that isn't totally mature thinking on my part, and while I know that routine is my friend I do have a very hard time with one. One reason for that is because of my crazy sleep schedule. THough I am going to try a new med next month which will help I do hope. But its also partially just lack of discipline-- I see a need to do it but I don't do it for various reasons. One is laziness and so forth. So thats one thing I need to work on.

I also want to hire an organizational coach for some rooms like the bathroom and other areas that I know I will find impossible to do myself and that DH will likely not give due attention to. I managed to organize the kitchen myself (Ok there is one stack of paper and one box of mess left to go through) but it took about four months and it was tons of hard hard work and effort for me. Due to the nature of my LD I have a super hard time with physical organization. I worked with an organization coach before as an undergrad and found it very helpful-- she taught me strategies I still use, but DH thinks it isn't a good idea that it would be embarassing, a waist of money, of time, etc. I recently found out he now routinely turns down dinner invitiations from other couples because he thinks we will never be able to reciprocate. I found that depressing. Or when I ask him to help me get some sliding shelves for deep cabinets or other things to help organize I feel like I have to convince him to move a mountain because he really wants to do it instead in a someday renovation project... But I think this is just part of his anxiety actually or something.

Right now I feel like DH is more part of the problem than he is part of the solution. I feel there are a couple of reasons for that. One is bad habits- thats one of the reasons that are always at the heart of disorgation. I have bad habits too. But I think the bigger reason is his depression/anxiety. I also think we aren't communicating or interacting the best way possible about this issue. For example, I don't think he is really listening that well because he thinks I am not saying what he wants to hear about it. And thats true. But I think thats because his priorities maybe aren't always clear or are confused and I think that also might go back to his mood problems.

So yeah I'm all pissy about the house and his not listening to me about it. Or when he doesn't take his ADD meds and then hes all over the place and gets nothing done anyway and is agitated about that but doesn't want to take the meds because on rare occasions they make him aggitated. I guess I feel frustrated and I'm also irritable right now after the surgery cause I don't feel good. ANd poor DH is my target... But I also feel like this is am important area of our lives. And most importantly I feel like DH needs to address his symptoms re his anxiety and depression. They won't go away if he gets one more thing done (he likes to tell himself that)... there isn't a magic wand or anything. And I wish I could get him to just agree with me on that. Thats probably the biggest issue. He can't see himself like I see him because trust me, if I acted like he did, he would want me to get counseling.

One book I have and find helpful (and sometimes suggest to DH that he reads it- he never has time :welldoneclap: ) is Organizing from the inside out. [ame=http://www.amazon.com/Organizing-Inside-Out-second-Foolproof/dp/0805075895/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-6222209-8012036?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1174263581&sr=8-1]Amazon.com: Organizing from the Inside Out, second edition: The Foolproof System For Organizing Your Home, Your Office and Your Life: Julie Morgenstern: Books[/ame]

I'll talk to him again. Maybe I can ask my therapist for tips to get him to go if he won't go at my urging. Or I can make it a couples counseling thing if he won't go on his own... I think therapy is really worth a try for him and he just seems to not want to do anything some days.

Whilst I agree it could be a sign of depression and anxiety, I dont think its necessarily so - I've never even remotely suffered from either in my life and I'm a complete pig.

I love a very minimalist, clutter free home. The trouble is I'm a lazy messy pig who hates housework. I live my life constantly late, running around trying to find socks, screaming at the kids and making even MORE mess trying to find my lost car keys. It causes me enormous stress and was at the very root of my weight problem - often I'd get the kids to school and realise I was shaking and my heart was pounding from the stress, I'd be straight to the shops for an enormous coffee and a big fat muffin, and I'd feel that sugar hit my blood and feel m-u-c-h better.

Nowadays, having lost so much weight and gotten really fit, its not nearly so bad. I will always have a disorganised, messy personality but I have the energy to deal with it, I have the energy to say no, I do not need to sit down RIGHT now, I can just do this first. THe house runs better, its not perfect but it runs a lot better.

And I always was ruthless with clutter, I am not sentimental and I dont keep ANYTHING I dont need. It does really help. We still have mess but its manageable.

Plus we pay the kids quite a lot of pocket money but dont buy them ANYTHING, they have to pay for whatever they want - they're expected to really CLEAN for that money, not just keep their rooms tidy. They clean toilets, scrub showers, mop floors and vacuum. Works for us, with five of us pitching in, its much easier.

But honestly, I feel getting on top of this disorganised side of my personality - espeically in terms of doing the darn grocery shopping, which I would always put off - has been KEY to allowing me to overcome my weight problem.

This website is the most helpful site I have ever found, as I have been able to overcome a lot of clutter and messes in my own home. www.flylady.com even has an e-mail system to prompt you if you are prone t be on the computer before getting responsibilities done.

This womam is the real thing, she has a testimony about how she overcame clutter and such in her own life.

Just take a quick look, Im sure you will love it, fly means F inally L oving Y ourself and she talks about chaos ... C ant H ave A nyone O ver S yndrome..

Humor makes a good medicine!!!:clap2:

I'm the opposite of you. I work full-time, mentor 8 graduate students a semester, am a full-time PhD student working on my dissertation, have a heart condition, had pulmonary emboli and was diagnosed with a hypercoagulability, and need 2 knee replacements. My house is clean and organized.

It sounds like you're using your husband's refusal to clean as justification for you not to clean. If you both don't want to clean but do want a clean house, PAY someone to do it.

I just saw that your surgery was THIS WEEK. Don't let this kind of thing bother you right now. Focus on healing and getting into your new routine (eating, moving, organizing the next day's meals).

You can work on this situation once you're down a few pounds and feeling great!

I found it nearly impossible to keep up with the house pre-surgery. Even now that I've lost a substantial amount, it's still difficult because, like you said, habits are hard to break.

The one thing that's worked for me is FlyLady.net's rule about working 15 minutes on one particular area. Cleaning house is boring to me...and physically challenging at times. But like FlyLady said, "You can do anything for 15 minutes." And she's right.

It's almost like a game to me. You should check out her website or book and see what you think. The whole "program" is online, so you don't have to buy anything.

I'll forewarn you that she's a little overboard. I DO NOT incorporate all of her ideas. I don't divide my house up into zones, etc. (Although I did try that.) Also, if you register and sign up for the e-mails, you'll soon be getting e-mails in the middle of the work day that say, "Stop whatever you're doing and clean your toilet." So obviously the program was set up for people who don't work outside the house. I have since blocked all e-mails from Flylady. But I love the 15-minute concept.

Here's how I do it:

Once a week, I go through my house and make a list of things that really need attention. Then, I set a kitchen timer and work on that list, one thing at a time, for 15 minutes each. Sometimes I make it all the way through the list, sometimes I don't. Sometimes I do the list over the span of a few days.

What happens, I find, is that I "get into it". It becomes fun and I'm proud of what I accomplish. As a chain reaction, I do a better job of picking up throughout the week and do things that aren't on "the list".

Try it!

http://www.flylady.net/

THANKS So MUCH!

I dont know about anyone else but I find the thought of paying someone to clean my house somewhat absurd. When I'm working outside the house again, I will do it, but now, whilst I have 3 kids and we're all here during the day, the actual cleaning is a laughably small drop in the ocean compared to the tidying, the organising, the washing (oh, god, the washing!), the putting away of the washing, the making of lunches, the cooking, the shopping, the constant rubbish bin emptying.

Scrubbing a shower or mopping the floor, pah! What on earth help would it be to me to pay someone for a few hours work once a week when I have about 40 or 50 hours of other stuff that I struggle to get through? I need a wife, not a housecleaner.

I think I got the "clutter gene" from both sides of my family. My parents are almost to the point of being hoarders. At their house, they literally have things piled feet-high in some areas. My dad's been known to pick up broken VCRs and DVD players from the dump and bring them home. Heck, we've still got the broken VCR that we stopped using 10 years ago. You know those zippable plastic bags that sheets and blankets come in? They won't throw them out because "you never know when something might be useful."

I'm not nearly as bad as my parents, but I am a slob. I just don't clean or throw stuff out, so I am constantly surrounded by trash. Add to that, I'm completely disorganized. I don't have a filing system for anything, it just gets thrown on the nearest pile. Heck, I still haven't unpacked from when I moved two years ago.

I'm the opposite of you. I work full-time, mentor 8 graduate students a semester, am a full-time PhD student working on my dissertation, have a heart condition, had pulmonary emboli and was diagnosed with a hypercoagulability, and need 2 knee replacements. My house is clean and organized.

It sounds like you're using your husband's refusal to clean as justification for you not to clean. If you both don't want to clean but do want a clean house, PAY someone to do it.

I do sort of do that... That is one of my issues that I am working on. I would love to convince him to have someone come in for an initial cleaning to get the place in order. I know i could keep up with it if it would start out clean. He doesn't want to pay anyone either. He promised he would get it organized by the time I moved in in August. He did not do that. Of course I also promised I would have my stuff organized when I moved it-- I didn't do that most of my stuff is still in boxes and the garage. It drives me crazy. I want my stuff. Especially my good hiking boots. And we had excuses- he was busy with work, I had a broken hand and injured hip and stuff that summer, etc. Either way we didn't do what we said we would.

Whilst I agree it could be a sign of depression and anxiety, I dont think its necessarily so - I've never even remotely suffered from either in my life and I'm a complete pig.

I love a very minimalist, clutter free home. The trouble is I'm a lazy messy pig who hates housework. I live my life constantly late, running around trying to find socks, screaming at the kids and making even MORE mess trying to find my lost car keys. It causes me enormous stress and was at the very root of my weight problem - often I'd get the kids to school and realise I was shaking and my heart was pounding from the stress, I'd be straight to the shops for an enormous coffee and a big fat muffin, and I'd feel that sugar hit my blood and feel m-u-c-h better.

But honestly, I feel getting on top of this disorganised side of my personality - espeically in terms of doing the darn grocery shopping, which I would always put off - has been KEY to allowing me to overcome my weight problem.

I know exactly what you mean. The mess affects so many things... including weight and food and exercise. If I can't find my workout clothes then I can't go to the gym, etc. And in the past the more organized i have been the overall better my life has run.

I think its going to be a bit like losing weight. I might want it to happen yesterday but the truth is that it is another transformation that won't happen overnight (unless I can get on one of them shows or something) and its going to be long hard work... Less weight, less mess, better life is going to be one of my new mottos I think.

I know exactly how you feel...I payed someone to clean my house...post surgery...I had enough to deal with...a recently X unproductive husband included...but post surgery...it was all about me...so I did WHATEVER necessary to make myself feel good...and cleaning the house was one of the things I quite happily delegated...It only lasted about 5 months... but it was the best investment I ever made...Look after yourself first...it takes awhile to get back to 'normal' but loosing weight helps alot...now I actually have the energy/motivation to do it myself...then I didn't.

:eek: Becky