Ok. I can already imagine some of the answers this question could prompt. After the sleeve are we on a strict diet for life or as long as our protein is met and our calories are in range are we free to eat as we choose? I'm going to assume that a person is going to make the healthiest choice available most of the time. I'm undecided about this and will talk it over with my surgeon when I have my 3 month appt. There are two very definite sides of this issue and those sides have strong opinions. I'd just like to know where some of you stand on this. As I said, undecided here, but one of the reasons I chose the sleeve was because I just couldn't face the chicken breast and green bean rodeo anymore.

You are so right, there are a lot of different plans. For me, I am doing a pretty strict low carb plan. Once i hit my goal weight i plan to incorporate back some healthy grains etc. This has been my choice, although my NUT would be ok with doing whole grain stuff now. I think I have a pretty bad carb addiction so I am enjoying having been detoxed and will be very carefulwhen i start adding carbs back to my diet. So for me....diet now, moderation once at goal.

It's funny....I keep reading stuff like this.....people saying they eat what they want, but they eat Protein first, stay within reasonable calories and make good decisions most of the time, and they call that moderation. Problem is, that sounds exactly like what the strict dieters do as well. The strict dieters just come down harder on themselves when their "most of the time" isn't "all of the time." I know cause that was/is me. I came down hard on myself for not being perfect. I tried, but it didn't always work. But I still try because I'm one of those that cannot stand on the side of that slippery slope. I fall....right down the carb binging rabbit hole. Other people are fine with it and do very well. I've heard people say I still have food issues. Not directly to me, but they describe abstaining from certain foods as "food issues." Does a vegetarian have "food issues?" Do they need therapy? If not, then I think I'm okay. I see no difference in my abstinence from starches and a vegetarians abstinence from ribeye steak. It makes me feel better to not eat those foods.

And btw...another big distinction that needs to be made....the huge difference between carbs and starches. One is healthy....one is not as healthy. We all know which yet for some reason they share the same name. It's unfair because a bowl of broccoli is oh so good for you. But a bowl of Pasta turns my stomach....although there was a time it didn't.

So....I don't know if I answered the question, but that's where I stand.

And my real point is this..... I truly believe that the strict dieters and the moderation folks are much closer to each other than most will admit. They argue and clash, but when you look at what they're eating...90% of it is the same.

For me..moderation.....i eat about 1 cup of food at a meal...Sometimes less...depends on how my sleeve is doing that day..

I eat what I want....But Protein is first, veggies second, fruit and then carbs.....

I am not going to trade one food addiction for another...The whole point of this was to help me learn to eat to live not live to eat....

If I were to look at it as another diet.....I would never make it..

I also want to be able to eat at friends houses and not worry about what they are serving....

So far so good!!!!!!!!!!

I have struggled with this issue too. I eat "simple carbs" like crackers and the occasional potato chip, and I realize that they don't satisfy me, or stay in my stomach for very long. I would say I have evolved into eating healthy most of the time with the occasional "treat". I am happy with the pace of my weight loss, and my doctor is happy too. My blood work came back with good levels of all the vitamins at 3 months. I debated, should I avoid every non-organic food, and finally decided that with the sleeve I make much better choices, and I am getting good results. So long as that continues I will have a bit here and there that aren't ideal, knowing I am making this choice and I can revisit it down the road if things change!

Just to build on what others have said...

I follow the protein first rule, then veggies, and so on, and honestly at this point I wouldn't have room for starches by the time I got to them! So although it is a 'diet' in that I am abstaining from starches, it's not like it is a struggle for me or that I feel deprived (doesn't the word diet have connotations of deprivation?). My sleeve, at 3 1/2 months, is definitely functioning as the tool that it is to help me stick to the food choices I believe are best for me right now.

thank god!

I'm really glad to see this topic raised because I agree with Butter, I don't see that much difference between the strict people and the moderators. I'm a numbers girl so forgive the geeking but to me, here's the math.

Let's say our goal is 800 calories, 80 gms of Protein. That could be Protein/Fat/Carb ratio of perhaps 40/30/30. That translates to 80 gms protein, 60 gms carbs, 27 gms Fat. Let's further say that we need at least 25 gms of Fiber a day based on best practices but we may or may not get all of it from food, although we want to get most of it from food.

Well that pretty much dictates what we can eat, right?

You HAVE to eat protein first, you probably do need to add fruits and veggies at some point to get roughage, and healthy fats so you don't look like a shrunken, dried-up mummy.

So where's there that much room to play?

Pre-sleeve, I used to eat three slices of thin crust, half-the-cheese, veggie pizza. If I can eat one slice, and that puts me at 150 calories for my "splurge", surely that's doable? OTOH...I am a sugar addict. I cannot eat sugar without massively affecting my body chemistry and craving more and more sugar. I may choose to never eat it again because I don't like how it affects me both physically and mentally. Or I may find that I can eat a bite and not crave more (only 4 weeks out, no idea how this will play out). Others on here don't have that problem. They can eat a bite and what gets to them is not that bite, but telling themselves they can NEVER have sugar again which causes a binge. Okay, here we have some room to play.

Some of us have trigger foods, some don't.

But no one seems to disagree that we have to monitor total calories and get our protein first. So perhaps this diet vs. moderation is not reality, but rather perception. Is it about how we like to see ourselves? (I control my intake carefully vs. I eat what I want in moderation)

Some very good points Gamergirl!

I am a sugar and Pasta addict for sure....now 10 months out I can have a little sugar...A bite, and it never tastes as good as I remember....

Pasta...well I can't eat much of that as I have no room for it....but I still enjoy the taste of it and will eat some if I have it that night....

Maybe moderation is not the word to use....Maybe the word is moderating ourselves as we know our weaknesses more then others.....That is why we had the surgery to learn a new and better way of eating..Healthier and less...much less!

I just can't look at it like a diet.....I get a panic attack when someone says the word...So I look at it as a new way of life and I eat a little of everything when it is in a meal.......

......

Maybe moderation is not the word to use....Maybe the word is moderating ourselves as we know our weaknesses more then others.....That is why we had the surgery to learn a new and better way of eating..Healthier and less...much less!

I just can't look at it like a diet.....I get a panic attack when someone says the word...So I look at it as a new way of life and I eat a little of everything when it is in a meal.......

Well said...see, there is middle ground between all groups after all. I'm glad this thread got started.

.........

But no one seems to disagree that we have to monitor total calories and get our Protein first. So perhaps this diet vs. moderation is not reality, but rather perception. Is it about how we like to see ourselves? (I control my intake carefully vs. I eat what I want in moderation)

Exactly what I was hoping to convey. Great post.

Damn...this may be the first time I've seen a moderation vs abstinence thread that didn't turn into a flame war right from the get go. A first for VST perhaps? It almost restores my faith in humanity.