I feel obligated to gripe at least once between November and March about the differentiated tax brackets. (I was once anti flat tax out of obligation, because my livelihood depended indirectly on the tax business, but I no longer have that obligation!)

I hate the fact that tax rates are increased as your taxable income increases. I have no problems paying more taxes than someone else, but I mind having to pay a higher percentage than someone else.

I feel better now.

Should higher incomes have to pay higher percentages of their income, or is it enough that they pay more money?

I pay a hell of a lot of taxes. I figured out one time that I pay 48% of my income in various taxes. Yet I can still live a pretty good life, at least until I retire, and I appreciate things like roads and the electrical grid and indoor johns. I suspect you are really griping about all those welfare people. Well, I have met many welfare people who are going to college and they are not bad people. They fell on hard times. Some of them are "ripping off" the welfare system by living on about $500 a month, but that doesn't bother me much. I'm more worried about how much it costs us to put a prisoner to death. An attorney friend of mine figured out that it costs a state about a million dollars for every execution. I'd like to save the money and just put the people in prison for life. It costs less than a million dollars for them to be in prison for 20 years.

Democrats probably won't raise taxes very much, if at all. But they want to raise the minimum wage quite a lot which worries me because small businesses may not be able to manage that much. As a Democrat, I'm very much pro small business, but they are hampered by taxes, being forced to collect state, county and city sales taxes, unemployment taxes, workmen's comp. taxes which the workmen never get, unemployment taxes, and a lot of other bureaucratic bullshit. I had a small business for a little while and learned a whole lot about the problems that small businesses face. I think we should remove these barriers and make small business a number one priority. I'm sick of big corporations avoiding taxes while small businesses pay and pay. I do hope the Democrats make the big corporations pay up, but I doubt if that will happen because people in Washington are not really in touch with things that people in rural Oklahoma worry about. But I intend to try to make them aware and I suggest you do too. I don't think people who are inheriting large sums of money should get out of the inheritance tax. They can afford it. I'm just worried about what will happen to Mother's little amount of money if she has to go into the nursing home. I suspect they will take everything and I will have taken care of Mother for over 5 years for nothing. Well, I love Mother so there's that. But I will get zero inheritance. That's why I'm for a national health plan. People who haven't taken care of a person in their 80s have no idea how much it helps to have Medicare. We would have been broke years ago without it. My aunt had Alzheimer's for 10 years and Medicaid paid her nursing home bills. I'm so grateful for that because we couldn't take care of her when she got bad. My brother, the big Republican, was bitching about welfare until I informed him that our aunt was on welfare in the nursing home. He shut up then.

We have a major crisis facing us with my generation, the baby boomers, retiring. I don't have much money saved because it cost me so much to live. During my working career, inflation was about 1000% and my wages didn't keep up. That $180,000 house would have cost about $18,000 in the early 80s, but I was in school and didn't have a big income and I didn't have a husband making an income. I'm screwed, so I hope the Canadians or someone will take pity on me. I'll learn Spanish or French.

Bitter: I just wanted you to know that I really enjoyed your post.

Some of your other posts have also mentioned that you live in Okla. I'm from Okla. I live in Texas now. There's so much pride in Texas, not so much in Oklahoma. And for the life of me I can't understand why people prefer to live in Texas. Oklahoma was a great place to grow up. And I love the attitude of the general population. I miss it to this day and I've lived in many places and I've been gone from Oklahoma for 30 years.

Mind telling me which little town you live in? I'm originally from Sand Springs. Not exactly a garden spot, but its' proximity to Tulsa was a big plus when I was in school.

Not griping about welfare people at all. Not sure why that would be the perception. I'm purely talking about having to pay a higher rate of tax, versus more tax. Maybe I'm not phrasing it correctly. I don't mind having to pay more money in taxes than someone else. I mind having to pay a higher percentage of taxes than someone else.

DH and I are in a 33% tax bracket (Schedule Y-1 MFJ). We pay a much higher rate once you factor in the other tax sources. The tax bracket directly under us (28%) accomodates an income between $123,700 and $188,450 for MFJ. So a MFJ couple with an income of $188,450 pays a lower rate of tax than we do. I could be griping about them, but I personally would certainly not consider $188,450 to be "welfare people".

I suspect they will take everything and I will have taken care of Mother for over 5 years for nothing.

No, you will have taken care of her because she's your mother and she took care of you before you could take care of yourself.

I wish I could trade places with you. I got the inheritance, but my mother is dead.

I'm sadder than either of you. My mother is dead and my sister stole everything of value.

Should higher incomes have to pay higher percentages of their income, or is it enough that they pay more money?

Hell, no! It's plenty enough that they pay more money. I think the tax system (besides being patently unconstitutional) is wholly unfair.

I also believe that it was a major coup for the government to institute having taxes taken out of paychecks, instead of people actually having to write a CHECK to the IRS or the State every week, month, year, etc. Most people have NO IDEA how much they pay in taxes and if they saw that money before they had to fork it over to the goverment, we'd likely have another Boston tea party on our hands. :angry

Should higher incomes have to pay higher percentages of their income, or is it enough that they pay more money?

Are we talking gross income, or net? And just individuals, or businesses, too?

I'm for an income tax of 10% of gross income, across the board. That means no deductions, no loopholes, no tax shelters. If you earn 100 K, you pay 10 K. If you earn 10 million, you pay 1 mil. No tax free munie bonds. No depreciation. No tax credits. No forms to fill out, either. :clap2:

How can people fill out their tax forms and not be aware of what they pay in taxes?

How can people fill out their tax forms and not be aware of what they pay in taxes?

Are you kidding? Most people I know go to a tax prep company to get it filled out and then they're all excited when they're getting a refund -- like it isn't their money in the first place and they've won the lotto! (Personally, I think when you're owed a refund from the IRS, they should pay interest on it as well, as they've been "holding onto it" for you for a while.)

I employ a number of people, and one year I decided to include a little note in their pay stubs that said, "So far this year you've made $_______ of which you've taken home $_________ and the government has taken $__________." You couldn't imagine the SHOCK I heard from the employees. They had NO IDEA! "I could have bought a car for that amount of money", etc. It was truly amazing.

And for those who DO know how much they're paying, it would still hit home a little harder if they were actually writing the check and watching that money get sucked out of their personal bank account, rather than never "touching" it in the first place.

We ALWAYS have to write a check. We don't see why the government should hold our money all those months.

I'm really surprised that this day and age people don't realize what they pay in taxes. Even when I was a po' divorced single parent I knew exactly what came in and what went out. The came in never was as much as the went out. I had to marry me a keeper. So folks, let's vote for Hillary. She just might understand a few things about that!

How can people fill out their tax forms and not be aware of what they pay in taxes?

My sister and her husband only care about what they "get back." Duh...

My sister and her husband only care about what they "get back." Duh...

That's the norm in the US. It's very unfortunate, because people just don't realize that it's their money in the first place. They think it's a gift from Uncle Sam.

Not griping about welfare people at all. Not sure why that would be the perception. I'm purely talking about having to pay a higher rate of tax, versus more tax. Maybe I'm not phrasing it correctly. I don't mind having to pay more money in taxes than someone else. I mind having to pay a higher percentage of taxes than someone else.

DH and I are in a 33% tax bracket (Schedule Y-1 MFJ). We pay a much higher rate once you factor in the other tax sources. The tax bracket directly under us (28%) accomodates an income between $123,700 and $188,450 for MFJ. So a MFJ couple with an income of $188,450 pays a lower rate of tax than we do. I could be griping about them, but I personally would certainly not consider $188,450 to be "welfare people".

If I hadn't retired, we'd be sitting right next to you. Which, come to think of it, is one reaon I DID retire...well, that and the extra 140 pounds or so I was carrying which made it difficult to breathe.

But, I guess I don't mind so much (except when they're spending it on wars) because the most basic basics are not provided to the low income folks on a graduated basis and, therefore, take a much bigger percentage of the income of a very low income person. On another board I'm on there is a voluntary contribution suggested. For some people, $25 is is 20% of a week's income and a big part of their grocery budget. For others, it's about 20-30 minutes' pay or less. In my case--and more so in yours, I'm sure--when you can get to the post office, buying a roll of stamps does not put a dent in your budget. To others, you can only buy a few stamps at a time.

Well...that...and my European friends pay a far higher percentage that we do...but they get good stuff!!!

Bitter: I just wanted you to know that I really enjoyed your post.

Some of your other posts have also mentioned that you live in Okla. I'm from Okla. I live in Texas now. There's so much pride in Texas, not so much in Oklahoma. And for the life of me I can't understand why people prefer to live in Texas. Oklahoma was a great place to grow up. And I love the attitude of the general population. I miss it to this day and I've lived in many places and I've been gone from Oklahoma for 30 years.

Mind telling me which little town you live in? I'm originally from Sand Springs. Not exactly a garden spot, but its' proximity to Tulsa was a big plus when I was in school.

I am a native Okie who has lived in many other states. I love Oklahoma, expecially Tahlequah. Sand Springs is not far from us.

No, you will have taken care of her because she's your mother and she took care of you before you could take care of yourself.

I wish I could trade places with you. I got the inheritance, but my mother is dead.

I don't think people who haven't been caregivers understand the stress at all. I have friends who have sisters or brothers doing the caregiving. I tell them that they REALLY, REALLY owe their sisters and brothers. Like war, unless you have done this, you have no idea what it is like. I have been through two strokes, a heart attack, kidney failure, low blood sugar so that she completely lost her mind, two bleeds that required many units of blood, not being able to walk so we have an electric wheelchair, constant servitude, and constant worry, not to mention the minor stuff. I think someone deserves some pay for that. I figured out that my brother owes me something like $220,000 for care and that was two years ago. I'm sorry you lost you mother, but caregiving is a whole different ballgame. I have kept Mother alive for 5 years when my doctor didn't thing she'd live a year. I'm good at this, but it's wearing. At the moment, Mother is in the nursing home for skilled nursing care after receiving 6 units of blood and IV antibiotics for a week. My doctor told me not to visit her everyday, so I'm taking two days off. This kind of stress messes up my weight loss, but I am glad to still have Mother though she's very demanding, and I get tired of being the servant all the time. I'm 59 years old. I got Mother when I was 54. I talked to my pastor about it and said that Mother had done everything for me, including changing diapers. She asked me how old my mother was when I was a baby. She was 27. It sort of changed my perspective. I don't mean to be snotty, but you have to take care of the elderly to understand what that is like. I would like a payoff for all of this, but I won't get it. I don't want to seem to be only interested in Mother's money. She doesn't have all that much. I love my mother and she knows it. She says that she knows that her kids love her. She says if she dies tomorrow, she knows her kids loved her. I don't think my brother has exactly proved that, but he's the baby and it's not his job. I'm just tired of caregiving but we can't afford the nursing home. They told me that Mother's medication alone would cost $124 a day. That's about what I gross per month. Thank God for medicare.