Ok, I am having some issues. Now this is the deep down horrible and ugly truth here and I am not proud of it.

1. I realise that I have a deep dislike of anyone who counts calories/fat grams/carbs or works towards losing weight. I see them as vain, superficial and assume they must think I am disgusting. I see them as mean and stingey, cold and rigid. I feel like a failure in their presence. However I adore people who eat voluptuously. Those who throw caution to the wind and indulge in that second piece of cheesecake. To me these people seem alive and human, warm, sensual and delightful.

Now of course my dilemma is this : with this (stooopid) attitude how am I ever going to become the sort of person who watches what they eat and works towards losing weight??? Obviously I must change these views but how??

2. I realise that 'naughty' food gives me joy. It makes me loved and accepted and its like I am giving myself a little - 'you're OK my sweet' everytime I put something 'bad' in my mouth. And the reverse is true also; I see eating lettuce and fruit and vegetables as admitting defeat as though I am saying to myself 'you are bad and dont deserve any better!!'. I know these messages came from my smother and my childhood but how do I get rid of them??

Again the dilemma is how on earth am I to lose weight with this attitude?? Eating 'rabbit food' hurts my heart. How can I re-teach my heart that healthy foods are messages of love not rejection?? Or, should foods come with messages at all?? Should I, rather, try to take any emotion out of food - and return it to the level of the mundane where it probably should be? And what could I use to replace my 'you're OK' messages to myself?? I think if I try to go cold turkey on that one I will find it very difficult. I have had over 30 years of conditioning myself to believe 'bad food = accceptance' and 'healthy food = rejection' - how on earth to I go about changing these messages??

Any thoughts or comments are welcome....

You have asked the million dollar question, and I would be willing to bet that everyone here has or is grappling with the same ideas. Sorry I don't have the magic "for sure" answer, either. I can share with you my progress in this area. Maybe it boils down to the idea of "Live to eat another day." I can want to indulge myself in the third scoop of ice cream, but I don't have to act on it. Start noticing the difference between emotion and action. You can have the emotion, but you don't have to do anything about it. This is what I am trying. It works sometimes, so that's better than never. I'm getting better at this. You just have to take a baby step. One victory. No one has to win all the battles.

Hope this gets you to thinking about it differently. I am looking forward to reading everyone's advice to you, because it's really advice to all of us!

Cindy

Hi Loopy - I was just thinking about you last night and wondering how you were doing. So glad to see your post and looking for answers, that's the only way we are ever able to climb these mountains, is with the help of others.

Cindy is offering some really great advice(thanks cindy), I too would like to read all the responses to this as I am like you and everyone here(or most everyone), I am an emotional eater, I eat to reward myself and dieting is punishment, came from the same place your thinking comes from, smother. The trick is to be able to work on reversing your thinking. Now remember you have spent your whole life building these beliefs in your mind, but now you must turn that around. Make the food we love but is not healthy for us the it's okay, if I want I'll have some later and if later you really still you want it, go ahead and have it, just watch your portions. To tell yourself that you are going to have to deny yourself any food for the rest of your life is a self-defeating way of thinking.

I also noticed with myself, that there are alot of healthy foods that I actually enjoy. Fish, I love fish and shellfish, salads with all kinds of raw veggies, love it, fresh fruit, mmmmmm. Yet, I got into this really bad habit of not eating those things, even though I really enjoy them, because they were diet foods and unless I was on a diet I couldn't eat them. How stupid is that??? Our diet spectrum must include and allow all foods when we really want them. Food is for sustainment and enjoyment. It isn't all or nothing, that extreme way of thinking is really not healthy.

Now I have gotten to the point that when I eat healthy food, I tell myself how good I am for treating my body with the respect it deserves and I think of all the ways the healthy foods will reward me, like lowering my blood sugar or loweing my BP, reducing the aches and pains in my old joints. When there is something I truly enjoy eating, I look for the healthiest version I can find, like Edy's Slow Churned, No Sugar Added Ice Cream, it's soooo good and I allow my self a small portion when I really want some. I use a mug to put it in, so I don't get carried way like using a bowl. You can even put it in a cake type cone, which is very low in sugar and fat, and you can only put so much in it. It's like being a kid again. There are thousands of ways of allowing yourself that rewarded feeling without indulging in huge portions of unhealthy foods. I am not going to lie to you, in the begining it will be more difficult, but the more often you do it, the more simple it becomes. Start with one of your favorite foods, then implement the best version of it. It takes baby steps and that's really what it takes, because since a baby, you have had this way of thinking and to change it will not happen over night, but I promise you it will not take you another 20 years to master this. You'll actually be surprised at how easy it will become for you.

Like everything else in life, it takes work, but the pay off is sooo good, I promise you won't be sorry.

I wish you luck and hope something I have said hit's a note of truth within you. Please take care of yourself, learn to reward yourself with things other than food, like a day at the spa or a bottle of your favorite perfume, a new hair style, the sky's the limit.

(((HUGS)))

Cindy

I love that you shared this. I have the same problem. For me, fattening food is an inside hug. Healthy foods just dont' hug me much. Now, obviously bread, Cookies, cake and candy taste a hell of a lot better and my desiring them more is understandable. But, I have a negative reaction to fruit!!!! When I was a kid our mother didn't have any snack food open for eating EXCEPT fruit. So even though my tastebuds say "eh, ain't so bad", my head says "this is GOOD FOR YOU FOOD" - run!!!!!!

For me, when I see someone eating healthy and being in control of their own nutrition AND they are thinner then me, the resentment comes from jealousy - of their control, their thinness and their (what I perceive to be) lack of food addiction.

I assume they have no fun in their life because they can't throw back a half sleeve of oreo's and watch t.v. right? But for them, possibly food isn't the hug and the fun it is for me so that's why they aren't struggling for their dieting....

Does that make sense?

I am supposing Most of us are feeling "loved" by foods! Our problems is often moderation (yuk)! I never have learned this as my Grandmother and Mother would often push seconds and cooked with "love." The band helps me with the moderation part, however, like we all know..we can eat around the band. Every time I go into my pantry or fridge, I ask myself "am I hungry and do I really need this." Sometimes I answer "No" and still get what I WANT! Oh well, nobody's perfect.

Try to train the brain in thinking that veggies ARE good for you and not punishment, which they really are. Your body is so loving all the nutrients its getting from healthy food. So you are not being bad to yourself if you eat healthy. Try to remember that junk will always be on the shelf, even long after we are gone. You only have one life, live it to the fullest.....you deserve to be happy !! just believe in yourself. Its hard but your so worth it and you can do it....just don't be so hard on yourself if you goof once in a while.

Hugs to you Lou (and psssssssst...your not alone)

Thanks guys, I have been thining about this since I wrote it and I am thinking of some nice associations I can make, for example....

Fruit is sunshine.

Lean Protein is strength.

Healthy food is energy.

Water is a beautiful life-giving oasis.

Veggies are sparkling eyes and glowing skin.

Sugar is tiredness.

Salt is bloated heaviness.

Fat is oily skin and lumpy bits.

White carbs are glugginess and a foggy head.

Chemicals are poison.

People who live healthfully are:

energetic

light

smiling

glowing

beautiful

People who live unhealthfully are:

tired and sluggish

heavy

sad

dull

sickly

I am going to get a couple of scrap books and combine picture together to reflect this and look at it everyday; I might also write myself some affirmations along the same lines.

I cant offer advice only support. I too am an emotional eater and food controls alot of my waking moments...with head hunger or eating for emotional reasons. Sometimes knowing you arent alone can help....and...you definately arent alone.

Hugs

If all that love went into putting it to one humane being, you might have the answer, and if you shared that love with and feelings to go with it, too ,with other persons ,,you would feel much better, and would realize, that love is for those who can give it back, and pain is for the moment a reminder. of how alive we are in this world where some people (don't care). because food is what keeps us alive, but, a loving person, weather it be ,parents or our children or our friends, nobody can replace how we feel about them. so when we eat,and eat... we seperate ourselfs for those we love that make us feel crazy , and loved at the same time,, ... then we blame others for our isolation. and not wanting to share. anthing..with any body,not those we love and oh yes, those we even don't like.. they get the never in my life cold shoulder ..instead of dealing with our feelings , we give up, not , on ourselfs , but, on others, they get so confused at the way,we turn them down when we don't want to be with any one, and if wer'e really honest, then we push them away and make them feel that is them, cause they don't understand....to change that, confusion, where does your feeling lay, in food that does not give back what you, need or in people, no matter how, difficult it is , is better to have some one that loves us and is there, then to have no one at all, an lose a voice who cared.. so if you give ..you will get much back. even your health, which you need to go out and share your live with family and friends and you husband and kids, who need you most.. with much love...

----------------------------------------------------------

Margie

295,247,gol 140

ban,4/5/04

ny, ny,

slow but, save

1. I realise that I have a deep dislike of anyone who counts calories/fat grams/carbs or works towards losing weight. I see them as vain, superficial and assume they must think I am disgusting. I see them as mean and stingey, cold and rigid. I feel like a failure in their presence. However I adore people who eat voluptuously.

Hi Loopylo! Somehow I dont think I've ever been described that way, but I am one who peroidically obsesses completely over calories. Completely and totally obsessed with them. Fat lot of good it has done me, but that is where I am currently in my life, and have been for the better part of a year.

I'm so sorry you feel this way. I know I certianly don't view you as a failure, or disgusting.

Do people really feel this way? I suppose they must, at some level. I'll have to go bumping a few threads.

Perhaps you need to stop viewing food as "good vs. evil/bad"? Just as emotions are neither good nor bad, there is no value associated with them, they just are. If I get really supper pissed off at someone, like the jerk that almost ran me over the other night, then that anger would be bad. But it isn't, it is just anger.

Just as ice cream and cheese cake are just ice cream and cheese cake, I must admit that I have emotions attached to ice cream. For me, ice cream = love. Something from my father, and probably the only time I felt safe as a child was when we were all eating ice cream. Hmmm, have to think about that.

I think your idea for a scrap book is a very good idea. And positive affermations are always a good idea.

I eat because I love the taste of good, most any food. The good thing about the band is no matter how much I love some foods, it's not going to go down and stay down, therefore, my bad choices are more limited.

I've never really looked at food the way so many people here do, as a psychological issue. Food was/is just always part of almost any and all social events or any fun times for me, be it hanging out with the family, out in the back yard by the pool, or after a day of shopping, food was like the icing on the cake, it goes so well with what ever you're doing.

On the other hand I look at how many times I've been bored and stood in the pantry just looking for something to fill a void or my tummy, I'm not sure which. Thankfully, the band has limited the choices and the number of times I do this.

What I have the hardest time understanding is when I compare the foods I ate prior to banding and the amount I eat now, I should be a size 0-2, not a 14.

I like the reflection used, "fattening food is like an inside hug". I just never looked at things this way, but I guess that's possible for many of us.

Oh Jack! Thank you thank you - you have given me inspiration to move ahead with this!

but...

Satiety vs. saturation - what a battle!

See, I am the one who can not stop at satiety unless it is something I don't like. Saturation baby, why stop at one piece of bread when the whole loaf is sitting there, three scoops of ice cream taste so much better than 1, you know the deal!

So, I am hoping the band will help me out with this little issue of saturation (which has also been referred to as gluttony and addiction from time to time!). Maybe she can get a tight grasp on my attitude as well as my appetite (is that what it is?)

Well, I guess I will find out soon as she will be invading my temple in about 12 hours! I am going into this hoping that she helps me help myself!

~cheri

Hi Lou, havent heard from you in a long while.

You can still treat yourself with food and yes, show yourself love with food. Not rabbit food, good food, in fact great food.

I cant wait! To be able to make the effort, cook something that looks wonderful, artfully arranged on a big white plate, you know those tiny portions in the middle of the plate, I always felt ashamed that I'd prefer the thing to be absolutely brimming with pasta, not some arty looking salad. But I'm honestly looking forward to that - eating like a sophisticated person, not a greedy pig. I've bought some gorgeous cookbooks, and I am determined that eating with the band for me is going to be a sensual experience.

I never bothered much before because it always ruined the experience for me, I do love my food to look great, and I love a nice frosty glass of white wine with it too, but it somehow got spoiled when I first ate my tiny portion of carefully prepared food and then gutsed down three more helpings (and another two glasses of wine) until it approximated a normal person's meal. Now I'm going to be able to do it - I guess it is that satiety versus saturation thing. Fresh colourful veges and things like that look divine when you make an effort.

But that doesnt mean I'll never eat cheesecake again, far from it.

That honestly to me feels like treating myself and looking after myself way more than huge helpings of cheesecake or ice cream does.

And I'm hoping the band will make me less rigid, not uptight and calorie counting. I never want to do that, ever again. I cannot wait until I can rely on my body's signals to stop eating. What a novel concept! I've never wanted to achieve what dieting can achieve, being smaller but holding on to it by being obsessed.

This is a WONDERFUL thread. Loopylou, I'm going to take your list and print it out for quick and frequent reference. Thanks!!

I adore you guys :cheeky :laugh thanks for all of you thoughts and suggestions.

Jack, I really think you are on to something with the chopping wood thing - I have recently been reading lots about japanese therapy and it runs along similar lines.

Check out : www.todoinstitue.com

And Jaqui I am trying to do something similar, see healthy food as a gift I can give myself and make it beautiful and fulfilling.