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I went on January 16 for gastric bypass. I woke up about an hour after being put under to a nurse in the recovery area telling me they did not complete my surgery because of complications. I have multiple adhesions and my intestines are stuck together so much that my anatomy does not look like it should. My surgeon did not want to complete the surgery until I could be told. He has given me the option to have him do a sleeve or for him to refer me out to someone who still does open bypass surgery. I cannot explain the mind f**k this was and the anxiety I am feeling. This is terrible. I knew something was going to happen or be found. I knew that I was right. Something was going to be found that would explain the symptoms I had had for years at this point. These adhesions do not show up on scans of any sort unless you have an obstruction. I have only had one other surgery in my abdomen and it was a laparoscopic appendectomy 10 years ago. He thinks it stems from chronic inflammation and autoimmune **** that I have. Has anybody had an open procedure for bypass? What's your experience? Or has anyone been opened up and not finished? Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using BariatricPal mobile app

My surgery was robotically assisted. I was thrilled when I found out - more “arms” able to work, better visibility by the doctor, and let’s face it, human arms are pretty dang fallible. Everything went great - no complications. The first week post-op was rough, but that’s just because it’s major surgery.

Do you know the phrase, "With friends like that, who needs enemies?" Anyway, yes, there can always be complications with surgery. On the other hand, these are statistically safe surgeries with low rates of complications. You face much greater health risks by remaining obese. As far as keeping it off long-term, you have a much better chance with surgery than just doing it on your own, where the success rate is dismal (something like 5 percent, I think). The surgery isn't magic, it just gives you a fighting chance to lose a significant amount of weight AND time to change your eating habits for long-term success. Good luck!

Hi, I have a complicated story and need some input. I won't go into a long story as it is quite twisty turny. Long and the short of it is that I had an RNY done 3 years ago and lost all my weight to goal in 9 months. I kept it off and loved my bypass. Then at the 2 year mark, I developed a rare side effect and the decision was made by my medical to team to reverse it to see if it would mitigate or relieve the effects/complication with the intent to sleeve me as soon as I was healed to continue with the restrictive aspect. (because it is not a common situation, they knew it was possible it would not help) They reversed it in Sept 2014. Again, I healed great but promptly started gaining (Even though I did my very best to maintain my RNY eating habits) in January 2015, I was cleared to have the sleeve done and I have been working out like crazy daily to hold the weight gain at bay. The complication is still an issue but we have resigned ourselves to that fact and have been managing it quite well. My sleeve date will be mid june.... Here is my query... I loved my RNY. I loved the restriction and everything about it. I hear so much about people failing the sleeve/the sleeve failing the people and converting to an RNY. I am very afraid that the sleeve won't be enough. I regained 40 lbs and only need to lose 40 to get back to goal. I would like to hear some feedback about the sleeve. Do you have restriction? Is it noticeable? Average weight loss? IS it a tool that can work? I know how the RNY works. Can I (if I use it properly and respect it) have an honest expectation to lose weight with the sleeve?

Okay, it sounds cute, but it’s a serious question. If you want to lose weight or keep it off and get healthy, you need a plan. The old saying, “Fail to plan, and you plan to fail” could have been intended specifically for weight loss surgery patients. Fail to plan after Weight Loss Surgery (WLS), and you’re planning for plateaus or regains and possible complications. What should you be planning? You don’t want to become fixated on planning, but there are a few key areas to be aware of. These are some of the questions you might ask yourself to make sure you’re planning enough. Each question is followed by the pitfall you might fall into if you don’t think ahead. Where are you shopping, and what are you buying? Possible pitfall: Finding an empty fridge and opting for McDonald’s or pizza delivery, or going to the supermarket without a list and buying whatever looks good – which usually doesn’t include lettuce and chicken breast. A solid answer identifies when you’ll shop, and it includes a list of proteins and other essentials, such as vegetables, fruit, healthy starches, and healthy fats. Check the list to make sure it has enough healthy foods for the meals and snacks that will get you through to the next shopping trip. What are you having for breakfast tomorrow? Possible pitfall: Being so rushed you grab a pair of Pop-Tarts on your way out, get a bagel at the coffee place, or get to work so hungry you sneak in a doughnut from the reception area. A solid answer is realistic, so if you know you’ll be in a rush, it doesn’t involve a lot of preparation. You may want to get your breakfast ready the night before, even if it’s as simple as putting some cottage cheese and a few slices of turkey in a portable container with a tight-fitting lid. What are you ordering for lunch? Possible pitfall: Going out with the gang and ordering what they do…anything from a burger and fries to pasta primavera. A solid answer considers where you’re likely to find yourself at lunch and what’s on the menu. Identify your source of protein and a vegetable beforehand and stick to your pre-made decision when you order. If you end up going out unexpectedly, look for salads, grilled chicken and fish, and sides of vegetables and fruit. What are you making for dinner? Possible pitfall: Ordering in or getting take-out, or falling back on a high-calorie, low-nutrition quick fix such as macaroni and cheese or taco kits. A solid answer identifies your source of protein and vegetables so you can figure out what you need to buy and how much preparation is necessary. When, where, and what is today’s workout? Possible pitfall: Running out of time if you haven’t scheduled it into your day, or chickening out of the workout if you haven’t quite made the commitment to a specific exercise. A solid answer says when you’ll work out, whether you’ll do it at home, at the gym, or somewhere else, and what clothes, shoes, and other equipment you need to bring with you, if any. Your answer should also include what you’ll be doing, whether it’s 30 minutes of walking on the treadmill plus 15 minutes of lifting weights, going to a Zumba class, or pulling weeds and sweeping the driveway. What will you snack on at the party? Possible pitfall: Eating whatever happens to look good, and ending up with not enough protein, too many calories, too much fat and sugar, and possibly nausea or dumping syndrome. A solid answer doesn’t depend on what the host may serve. Your plan may be to bring some hard-boiled eggs or beef jerky for yourself, plus a large green salad, vegetable skewers, or fruit salad for you and the rest of the guests to enjoy. How will you answer your mother when she offers you a freshly baked chocolate chip cookie (your favorite) or the entire batch? Possible pitfall: Feeling guilty for refusing or being caught off guard, and accepting the cookie or batch. A solid answer includes a polite refusal, possibly with an explanation, such as, “No, thank you. My doctor has advised me not to eat cookies.” If you can’t avoid taking the batch home as a “gift,” don’t be afraid to throw it out. Nobody likes to throw away food, but if you’re going to, better to throw it away in the trash can than in your body. How are you going to feel at the end of the day? Possible pitfall: Let doubt creep in, and you may be setting yourself up for bad decisions with eating and exercise. A solid answer is positive and confident with no room for self-doubt. At the end of a day of good eating and a bit of exercise, you may be tired, but satisfied, proud, and a little lower in weight. Staying positive and optimistic sets you up for good decision making without even thinking about it. You always hear about the importance of planning for weight loss surgery success, but that advice may seem confusing if you’re not a natural planner, or even if you’re just not used to thinking so much about your WLS-related habits. Know the answers to these questions, and your planning skills can help you lose more weight and stay healthy.

So far..good! I'm down around 30lbs so far...25 the first month and then I've been hovering with the last 5 this past month. Eh..im not worried about it being slow as Im loosing inches a lot faster than lbs these days. I've been lucky in that I've had VERY few complications...I dont have any issues eating or drinking. I am tired more than I used to be but that's ok..it will come back. Im so glad I had the surgery..it's been life changing. The biggest positive is that my blood pressure is down to a normal level for the first time in almost 9 years! I have a history of heart disease on both sides of my family and my dad has his first heart attack at 40 yrs old. I'm 38 and Ive been on BP meds since I was 30...so the impending heart attack was a big factor for me in having this done. I feel a lot better knowing I'm doing everything I can to help keep me here.

Regret is normal when you are this soon post op, especially if you've experienced complications, and not having the desire to eat or drink is also normal. But you have to make yourself at least get in fluids and try to get in Protein. It will get better. You will begin to see the weight come off and you'll realize why you had this surgery to begin with. But you need to put your health first from now on. You won't be hungry so plan your meals and fluids. Set a timer. If you don't you will cause more complications down the road. Try to stay positive. Go for a walk. Drink some herbal tea. There's no going back. The only way is forward so make the most of it and give yourself the best shot you have at success.

Sleeved November 28. Feeling really well- lots of energy, minimal soreness. I was so afraid of complications, but all is well so far. Tolerating fluids and purees really well- but already getting sick of purees. Weird textures have always been hard for me. Also struggling with boredom- I'm not used to this much free time. I held on to weight the first week which made me crazy- then I had my period and dropped 6 pounds overnight and have steadily dropped since then. HW: 294 SW: 251 CW: 240 Sent from my SM-G930V using the BariatricPal App

There's no way to know. The odds of needing a revision whether it be complications, reflux, etc. is fairly low, but it still does happen. Can't avoid the risks. Just do what you can to mitigate any complications that could be caused by yourself. I have moderate reflux (GERD) and am going with 3 surgeons' advice to get the VSG done, with a revision option a year down the road (I believe it would be more like 2 or 3 but we'll see) to RNY. I too worry about getting worse reflux and the staging of esophageal damage but generally people can also take PPI's to help mitigate this by default.

Fiddle, looking around I found some more elaborate answers for the "I'm going to puke feeling", you may have already read all of these but here you go... High or maximum heart rate and uncontrolled breathing, which elevates the blood pressure to heights that can give a 'sick to the stomach' feeling. The nausea that one feels is a result of burning so much glycogen out of the muscles that the body attempts to continue muscular contraction by manufacturing more glucose out of the lactic acid that has been building up within the muscle. <Long chemical process explanation> The upshot of this complicated biochemical process is that when a trainee runs out of glycogen in his working muscles and his body liberates lactate into his bloodstream, his pH levels drop off markedly, producing a strong lactic acidosis and feelings of nausea. This effect causes a drop in blood pressure (often perceived as light-headedness), and the inadequate blood flow to the abdomen produces the feeling of nausea. A couple ways to combat this feeling: Increase rest time between sets to allow the body to keep up with the demands that are being placed on it Consume a bit of sugar immediately upon feeling the symptoms (or beforehand if you are certain that this will be a problem). If you feel nauseous during or after your workouts, it may be a sign that you overdid it. People often report feeling nauseous when they over-train, according to R.W. Fry and colleagues in a September 1994 article in the British Journal of Sports Medicine. Ensure that you do not get sick from over-training by verifying that your heart rate is not above 85 percent of your maximum heart rate. If you do not want to stop to measure your pulse, a good rule of thumb is that if you have to stop repeatedly to catch your breath, you are working too hard. Nausea during or after exercise may also be a sign of a hormone disorder called pheochromocytoma. Symptoms of pheochromocytoma include a high heart rate along with headaches, sweating, chest pain and feelings of anxiety. People with pheochromocytoma often feel nauseous and vomit after exercise. Consult your doctor if your nausea and high heart rate during exercise persists despite lowering the intensity of your workout and waiting three or four hours after meals to work out. So, it seems that the nauseous feeling after a workout can be from over training or it can be from just pushing yourself to the next level.

I hear ya, I need remind myself to here and allot just try not to feel baffled or actuualy find your way there, maybe let it be simple and less complicated and feel better about it even if its state of mind, its not been always the same to say I can turn it all on at once as is me now pre op just that I can do it all. I'd use a search engine for that, get accompany materials at docs office or nutrisionist, mine both said when ever what ever calll and ask some other time if you need. My question: Excuse me, miss iggy ? if you see this, Where is it that you did fart when it seemed you'd promote the pillows idea ?

I really don't have advice on the surgery itself because I'm going through the pre-process. I will tell you how I came to my decision....I'm turning 40 this year. I've been struggling with my weight for 20+ years. I'd lose 40-60 pounds to gain it all back plus more. I had a son at age 37 and now that he is so active, I decided I needed to get this done. I am sick and tired of being sick and tired. I want to be around for my son, I don't want to be an embarrassment. I've stopped and started this process probably 3 or 4 times and was originally going to go with bypass but the whole idea of them cutting my stomach and reducting my insides, freaked me. Permanent freaked me out. The band is such a great tool, I think. Am I worried about complications, yes. BUT, what about the complications from our weight issues? Am I worried about death? Yes, but what about dying from a heart attack at age 45 (for me). I think the risks are worth it. I have really changed things about myself just preparing for this surgery. I know if I would stay on track with the changes I have made for myself, I could probably lose the weight alone but I know it would come back on quickly and the lap band will help me maintain control.. I am a frustrated dieter/life changer. I am able to diet and lose but I get so frustrated when I'm living off of raw vegetables and lean cuisine and not seeing that scale move. I get mad and quit....and the cycle continues. I'm hoping this band will help control the hunger so I'm not "starving" and getting frustrated. I've researched, and weighed my options. I can remain overweight and risk the chances of diabetes, heart disease and cancer to name few or I can gain control of this weight and gain control of my life. I want my son to be proud to call me his mom. I want to take pictures with my son so he has memories of me, but I wont' do it now because I'm humiliated with my appearance. I'm done living in the shadows and I want to be healthy. I'm not saying I want to be skinny...healthy. I've told my surgeon....If I could get to 165 and stay there, I would be thrilled. I want to be able to shop in the normal clothes section and not have to shop in the chubby chic section where they only sell clothes with big flowers and fish on them! In my opinon, you have quit smoking....great move to improve your health and kudos for your decision. Losing weight will only add strength to you and make you feel better, inside and out. I am excited about my decision and will eventually look and feel on the outside like I do on the inside. Do the research.. try www.lapband.com - I got a lot of information there. Go to the surgeon and ask tons of questions. I probably call the nurse at least once a week with a new list of questions and they gladly answer them for me. There is a lot of information here too, just don't listen to the horror stories, because they are with every situtation. Some people have horrible pregnancies, gall bladder removals, perms.....but it doesn't stop other people from have successful perms and births....

i haven't had the surgery myself, i'm in the begining stages. my story is similar to yours except for the medical problems. i've been obese all my life and never had any surgery except for dental. i'm an ob/gyn and do surgeries all the time. there are no guarantees in anything, for the most part the complication rates are minimal. one of the keys is making sure your surgeon has enough experience (make sure he or she is a bariatric surgeon), don't be afraid to ask for his complication rate. first find out if your insurance covers bariatric surgery and what their requirements are. then find a bariatric surgeon. they will guide you from there. my insurance requires me to lose weight (10%) first and since i don't have any comorbidities i'm don't know if i will get approve. if not i am heading to mexico (it's going to cost about the same as my copay for surgery here anyway), that's how serious i'm about being at a healthier weight and prevent my family's medical problem from becoming my own. weight loss has been shown to significantly improve morbidity/mortality. you may end up having to take less pills everyday for blood pressure and even require none at all. good luck with everything.

Wow, your plate is full enough without all of these complications. You are tough, tho, and you will get all this behind you, soon. Best of luck!

Hey! I'm doing really well. Thank you for checking in on me! As of this morning, the scale showed 197.9. That's a total loss of 60 lbs. I'm in awe at my progress but so so grateful to be where I am so far! I hope everything goes well for you and UHC covers thst revision. I've heard/read such horrendous experiences with the band and feel horrible for anyone stuck with it and the complications they have to endure. Sent from my SM-N910V using the BariatricPal App

I was the most confident person about my surgery with no fears. Then, I cried when I was about to be wheeled into the OR. I kept reminding myself that everyone I've ever talked to, whether they had complications or not, said surgery was the best decision they ever made for themselves. It helped. Fear is normal. Three weeks post op and loving it it's not without its challenges, but I don't regret it one bit. Sent from my Nexus 5X using the BariatricPal App

Hi, I had my plication done at the OCC as have 10 of my friends and we are all happy. I recived top notch medical care and every question or concern I may have had pre and post op has been satisfactorily addressed. I saw manwithkids post about his wife also and have not heard of others having that complication. I don't think it's objective at all CeeBelize to blame the OCC or people's misconceived notions of Mexico's health care for one person's problems, manwithkids wife could have had existing factors that influenced her illness, and there could easily have been other factors specifically related to her that caused her outcome. I wish her speedy healing. Also there could be other issues occurring with a person's personal health that can affect slow results. I know some pretty frighteningly ineffective medical Doctors in the US, incidents like that happen in all countries and again, I have not heard the majority or even 3/4 of Dr. Ortiz's patients complaining. Dr. Ortiz has a fine surgical standing. He has performed over 500 procedures, so consider what a small percentage that is that a couple of people had complications or did not lose as fast. There is a Doctor in Ohio, USA who had a huge patient complication and this was the result of his lack of experience. He had only performed 3 plications. Some Canadian and US Doctors go to Dr. Ortiz for their plications. There are other factors to consider that could be affecting results. It's very easy to start an internet rumor or make a snap judgment based on little to no facts. All i'm saying is I think it is very short sighted to come here, read a few negative or slightly informed stories with no other facts, no updates, and draw that conclusion that it must be ok to blame a Doctor and a whole entire country (I.E. don't trust Mexican Surgeons) for a couple of people's experiences. Think about it. Josette, it could very well be your complications causing the slow down as CeeBelieze said, or it could be other factors. I am glad that you contacted the OCC. Don't let 48 hours go by without calling again if you have not been contacted. Take Care All. Great Success.

Ana, It is funny that you mentioned internet rumors. You do not have your facts straight, and are spreading rumors. The Doctor in Ohio had done nearly 50 plications when his patient had the necrosis. At that time Dr Ortiz claimed that that had done nearly 200. Any Doctor can have complications and patients with weight loss failure. The difference that I see is that the Doctor in Ohio actually came on here and posted about his complication. The OCC sweeps any complications they might have under the rug. I know for a fact that they delete negative posts off of their forum. Josette Best of luck in whatever revision you decide to do. I felt very discouraged many times with my progess, or lack of. I am 18 months post op and weight loss has been very slow. I have lost about 95 pounds since my pre-op diet, and I have about 20 more to go. I have finally made peace with my my choice for plication. The weight loss has been so slow, that not many people would ever assume I had WLS. So what if it takes me almost 2 years to reach my goal? As long as I can keep the weight off, I will consider it a success. I paid $9000. plus another $2000. in travel expences. Then I had some complications that I had to have fixed, and that cost me another $8000. That is a lot of money for me, but my husband said it is the best money he ever spent. Even if I never reach my goal. I feel and look so much better then I did 95 pounds ago.

Hi St®awberry! First, I think it's great that you are considering the lap-band. While I haven't had my surgery date, I have read many, many success stories on this forum. Yes, there are those who lose LARGE amounts of weight, some that loose very little, and some who have complications. Regardless, this is a "tool" (which is always stressed) and much of your success will depend on your hard work. I have close to two hundred pounds to loose and I'm confidant that the band will help me get there. For me, another reason why I chose the band over other procedures (besides the aforementioned reasons) was that many of the other options are considered "malabsorbtave" and for me, I don't feel like I can ever be healthy if my food is not absorbed. I tend to be one of those people who believes that your body is a vessel and I just can't make myself believe that I would be healthy. Allowing my body to function similarly to how is usually does is what I'm aiming for with the band and you're still able to absorb all of the nutrients as you normally would, just modified. Just remember that follow-up is key with this surgery. Best of luck to you, no matter what you choose!

Hi everybody, I've been lurking on the boards for so long that I felt it was time to come out of hiding and say how much inspiration you've all given to me without knowing it. You are a great source of information, comfort, and camaraderie -- it feels wonderful to know that I'm not alone. My real name is Michele. I'm originally from St. Louis, MO but I've been living in the Houston area (The Woodlands to be more exact) for 14 years. I'm 49 years old and I have a host of problems that I hope are going to be greatly improved by the surgery -- diabetes, high blood pressure, low thyroid, high cholesterol. Diabetes is the main one. My mom was about 100 lbs. overweight and died when she was 62 from the complications of diabetes. It's taken several of my friends too, and I just don't want to go out that way if I can help it. It's funny, I'm a conservative Republican but I tell everyone "Thank you President Obama!" If it weren't for Obamacare I don't know where I'd be. Because of the PCIP program which is part of the Affordable Care Act, I am able to get insurance and I couldn't afford it previously. I was turned down for other insurance and the Texas Risk Pool insurance was twice as expensive as what I pay for deductibles now. Anyway, my insurance covers bariatric surgery. I had to be on medically supervised weight loss for 6 months, then they approved me. Because of previous surgery I had on my ears this year, I've already met my out of pocket maximum so this surgery is free for me. I have been truly blessed. This past year has been an epic saga trying to get to this point. After doing everything I needed to do for six months and gaining approval for the surgery on the first try, I found out my surgeon was out of network because the medical group he was a part of fell apart and he joined with a new group and my insurance couldn't find him on their network anymore. Finally my insurance suggested that I find a different surgeon so I looked around and found one who has a lot of good reviews online -- and this is going to be my hero - Dr. Dexter Turnquest. My surgery is scheduled for Monday the 19th at 1:00 pm. I'm so excited that it's finally happening yet I'm feeling more nervous and I have more trepidation than I thought I would. My surgeon allows only Clear Liquids for the first week (yep the week of thanksgiving - maybe i can find some turkey broth). Then after that I go on the soft diet. He said he wants his patients eating their Protein, not drinking Liquid Protein, so I'm glad I won't have to be on the Protein Shakes -- I'm sorry, they're mostly awful. I worry what it's going to be like to be at home and not chowing down. I wonder what it's going to be like not to eat certain things, not to eat as much as I used to eat. I wonder if I'll get really depressed because that's been my coping source all these years. But I know that God is on my side and He has brought me to this and He'll help me get through it. But I can't help wondering and worrying a little if it's going to be really hard. Can anyone recommend things I should have on hand for that first week when I'm home that I would regret if I didn't get? My friend is going to spend the night with me the night I come home (which will be Tuesday afteroon) but after that I'm mostly going to be on my own sitting in my little apartment. Please let me know if there were things, medicines, food items, that you were really glad you had around. Anyone else live in The Woodlands area? I would love to go to a support group and make some new friends. I think it would help me get out of myself and help me take the focus off ME. There's so much more I could say so I'll just leave it at that for right now -- thanks again to all of you for being here!

Hi you must work with your surgeon and do whats best for you my surgeon would not even consider the band and very few doctors would or insurance covers it because of complications , I would think about what is best for you and how much weight you want to loose and the success rate of all. I had no complications and very little pain. I would research everything and work with my surgeon to make the best decision, you should ask your surgeon as well as yourself why he choose the bypass over the band. Good luck.

Im 4 weeks POST OP and YES that is normal! My surgery date was 11/9 and I was back and forth. I hardly gotten any sleep the final week. I was beyond excited during the approval stages, labs, and classes i had to attend. I kept telling myself something will happen and i'll be set back hehehehe... But I had a few minor complications after and now I am starting to feel like myself again. I'd say just keep a positive mind set and you will be ok. GOOD Luck

i have done so much research on this surgery i realize that things could happen as like with any surgery or illnes your absolutely right i have decided to get the surgery done! i am waiting on approval from my primary doctor i need a psych exam and im ready to go! i talked to my dr about these complications and theres only about a 1% chance of these things going wrong and i guess it really depends on having a good surgeon who knows what he's doing so do your reasearch on your doc too find out his success rates with all complications! good luck to all who are in the process like i am good luck to those already scheduled for surgery and good luck and success with those who are already banded ! GOD BLESS!!!!:kiss2:

Hey, even in situations where you "don't have as much to lose", everyone's body handles extra weight differently and sometimes even a smaller amount over that threshold causes serious medical issues as you're experiencing. Try to give them time to come around. Let them see how much work really goes into this whole process. But stay the course. If you think this is right for you, then your family is going to have to accept that one way or another. Tell your wife you're doing this in order to have a longer and healthier life with her and your children. You're tired of suffering with this excess weight and this is the help you need to handle it. Then just don't talk about it anymore for a while. Keep on planning and doing the appointments you need to, but let it all sink in with her for a while. As for your mother who thinks she is a medical professional, point her to the studies and reviews from medical professionals. Those will clearly state the relatively low risk of gastric bypass surgery, and the mountain of evidence that points to the positive effects it has on health. The rate of death is between 1-3% overall for gastric bypass, and even less for surgeon's who have performed more precedures. The rate of complications directly related to surgery is around 10%. I bet those are a lot lower than your current risk of heart attack, stroke, and sudden death due to the health conditions you currently have. Help her with the information she needs to weigh the risks against the rewards. I wish all the best for you in your journey. You will find support here and a wealth of helpful and caring individuals. Welcome.

It is generally performed according to the usual technique for the laparoscopic sleeve gastrectomy that you first went thru although you should have more fundus from weight regain. So they would remove that again, staple along the suture line just as in the last procedure. I'm not a doctor this is just the very basic of what I have read and it at least alleviates the problems of malabsorption and others that the bypass could bring which I highly discourage. I also discourage this as it brings with it another surgery, more risks and more complications. Please go back to step one and try again! You will thank me later I promise. It's always PROTEIN PROTEIN PROTEIN, and I am the first one to admit that I didn't get all mine in and I'm in a mess now!!!