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Good LUck Pam on the new phase in your program and Happy camping.................. I just found out today about a new class at Kaiser. Neuropsychology and weight loss. I am so interested. 300 dollar for 12 weeks.....3 hour classes. I am trying to figure out how to go.

YOu can change surgeons a few people have done it already. Just remember that the visits are in the computer so one doc can read what the other way has written. If you stay with Richmond Kaiser I would suggest Dr. Baggs I like him alot. Don't get discouraged just keep pushing forward if you know what you want. Be very nice but assertive. I don't think they would ask you to lose and to come back if something wasn't up................lose as quick as you can and than call them back earlier than October that will impress them and make them realize how serious you are. THe 1200 will get you to goal in less than a month if you follow it exactly. It is all good..........don't give up :-)

you can lose the 12 way before October 1, if you follow the 1200........... Sorry weird confusing visit.

Sherri.............That is ALOT of weight!!! I know your miserable but it almost makes it worth is I would think??? That is GREAT!! Hope your feeling better soon.......... I am banded and I still throw up sometimes. Sometimes cause I eat to much and sometimes things just don't settle right.............if I eat to much sugar I get the runs (TMI I Know) just about everytime...........sorta like band dumping I guess. But the further out I get the more my stomach is settling and not getting so upset about things............well fills and unfills cause it to flare its temper but foods no so much anymore. It gets better............

Hey Cukie........weird visit. Lots of mixed messages. What does he mean he was surprized the band worked? And what is worse about the sleeve than people expected? I think I would ask for clarity. Really?? Is he trying to talk you out of it?? Maybe he wants you to back out or at least to really, really think about it. If he said lose and come back I would say he will do it. That is a very mixed message.................can't say I understand it. I get why no band I know that is not his favorite suregery (he was at my orientation and made that very clear) but why no RNY? Is your scarring that bad??

Sherri sorry your having such a hard time............I agree it doesn't sound right and I TOTALLY agree that Robin and Liz both tend to be better with the pratical details of what might work. Robin has given me some great ideas that actually work and she has more time to talk...........only thing is she is hard to get ahold of. Figure out what you need to do to feel better don't give up until you get answers...........:-)

Estogen dominance: I agree with Riley I had the estrogren stuff and still do at times. That is why I swell so bad TOM and my band gets tight. Sometimes out of the blue my body will swell really bad for weeks at a time. If I did 't know better I would think I was pregnant. But I figure out it was estrogen and could go along with home much soy I was eating. I cut back and things got back to normal. I also had three periods the month after surgery and have been regular every since for the first time in years. I think you'll be fine. Look up estrogen dominance that explains some of this crazy hormone stuff. Since I am plan to lose a ton of weight her soon I am getting ready for another bout with estogen!! LOL. A progeterone is what they say works for estrogen dominance. Mirena?? Birthcontrol? What is it Riley I might need to get some of that. If your heavy and a woman you likely have estrogen dominance is what I was told........... Anyway I am suppose to be working............waiting for the attorneys to call me to staff this case from hell!! :-(

Riley stick around I need your input more!! And any veggie ideas that you have or work for you!! I really want this to work and am trying to figure out just the right combo and formula so I can this last 5o pounds off me. Like I told the dietition I am not going anywhere until I get this whole thing figured out..............

Ash you look great by the way............really, really great!!!! :-) Huge difference!!

Riley: I can eat first thing in the morning no difference in restrictions. But I don't eat until about 10 to11 either. Than 3 or 4 and something small about 8-9. BUt that is just cause I am working weird hours right now. I have to drink at least half of my water in the morning before I eat........I get to thirsty waiting an hour after eating to eat!! THan I have to wait an hour to eat after all the water :-) The reason I know I can eat more than a cup is because of salad. Haven't tried anything else in that amount. Protiens I couldn't do a cup they would get stuck. So Riley if your at a 1/4 a cup of protien I think that is what they are looking for for good restriction. 1/4 a cup of protiens per meal is the goal i was told. I think salad and veggies don't count for the 1/4 rule................yea salad is a slider I so know that. But some people can't eat it. I have always been able to eat salad. I can still eat bread if I want to. I have been more restricted before where I couldn't. I like not being able to eat bread!!! LOL!! I have the quuram Riley. There is also this new one Gardien foods that has lots of protiens that are low fat. 23grams of protien under 200 they have like 20 different choices. But I tell you they are just ok, not great..........I don't know if they have wheat or not but the best one is this Tuscan chicken that has veggies inside of it. I haven't tried them all but they have a wierd taste. I do the lentils like crazy and beans of all kinds. I used to do yogurt but it got ruled out as a slider when I turned in my food logs. I was doing oatmeal and cream of wheat to but they got ruled out as well. Crackers and egg salad..........crackers got ruled out. Quinoa is my new thing but I am waiting to run it by the dietation later this week. LOTS of protien and mixed in with lentils it tastes pretty good. I wish I could add in fish and not throw it up................maybe I will find some meat at some point that I could actually keep down. I heard salman is not fishy smelling or tasting...... I am working with the nutritionist since I am vegetarian and learning little tips here and there. I am slowing getting it I think. I have to substitute the 1200 calorie plan and sometimes I think that messes up the outcomes. I think vege meats have a bit to many carbs...............I know they have sodium in many of them. Well gotta get some sleep...............best wishes to all

Ali Eco is good..........I know a couple in the antelope/north highlands are that arte great. Both Goodwills. One on Watt and the mother on Hillsdale. There is another one on Norwood right off the freeway that is great. We should get together and do a thrift store day. You might know some I don't know about

So Riley you eat 1200 calories a day..........I get so confused cause I hear one thing from some of Kaiser and than other kaiser people say something else..........I thought we were suppose to be well under 1200? Which is hard for me. some say no carbs at all some say complex carbs...........some sayd 1/4 a cup is good some say 1/2 cup...........depends on who you talk to. So are you just following the binder and the pre op and the band rules. I serious get confused when I hear different things. I was tol 500 calories was ideal with a properly adjusted band but I only made that with the last fill and it lasted about three weeks and and the restriction let up.............with 15 pounds gone.........but it was so perfect while it lasted I wasn't hungry at all and was losing like crazy there for a bit!! I want that back.

Hey Riley your back............. I have problems following the rules exactly because I don't eat meat. I get as close as I can but I didn't realize going on that it would be such a problem. THe substitute meats are hard to work around/figure into the the rules. But I am still trying :-) Trying new things I find at whole foods and trader joes. And eat more eggs that I would like :-) I am starting to hate eggs again and might need a hiatus soon. I am not into diets but I would say my biggest downfall is salad and that shouldn't be bad but I LOVe salad and would prefer it over the protiens. Salad should be bad but I think for me it is a downfall ...............cause I can be happy with a salad for a meal and have to force the protien down with that. I think the food addiction and psych issues are by far the WORST part of all this. I didn't except so much internal chaos when all was said and done. And I didn't expect to see people dropping like flies around me as they lose the weight.........you gotta work the psych part harder than the losing part and that is something you hear but just doing really get until a few months out. I am wading through the psych stuff hoping that will help me lose faster................soon!!! LOL.

So he got back to you. I emailed the same thing to my doc two weeks ago and nothing. Pam he didn't say they were phasing the band out but if you read between the lines you can see he is saying the stats and results with the sleeve are better. I can tell which way he leans just by reading that. I think it is an informal leaning away from the band. It would fit with what people have said about the casemanager saying go sleeve and with other people reporting that the sleeve is being recommended by the docs when they bring up the band........ In the long run it doesn't matter to me as I am banded. I just like to know where the docs are coming from and why. If Kaiser ever told me they recommend a switch or if I ever have my band removed I would consider it. I would also considering just forgetting the whole bariatric surgery thing. Sounds to me like there are lots of sleevsters out there 2-3 years out that are going very well and are happy with the surgery.

Heather glad your back.............really nice outside tonight. Wow 1/3 cup and it was painful? That is pretty tight. Do you know what 1/3 cup is ounce wise? I think that is more than they were saying was the "perfect" restriction of 1/4 cup. So if that was true than they would still technically still need to give you a fill. So you would be really, really tight at the perfect restriction. If it was painful to eat than I bet you were staying full longer than the 4-6 hours. Do you know what your cal intake per day was. I thought you said you were sometimes eating soft foods just to get something in for the day when nothing was staying down. So you were only eating 1/3 a cup three times a day and didn't lose......I bet you were only eating 500 calorories or so a day. I didn't realize that. For me I am not sure working the band is staying at 1/3 to 1/4 cup if your hungry all the time or sooner than the 4-6 hours recommended. THat might be working the pre op diet and the rules but I think it is alot about willpower which we can do without a band. The band is suppose to help with the hunger and amounts. If I need 3/4 to a cup to stay full for the 4-6 hours I eat it. I just try to eat a protien and salad or a vegetable and not junk food. When I ear more than a cup of anything it is salad with beans for protiens. I am vegetarian but still I am not gonna stay at 1/4 a cup three times a day if I am stil hungry I don't consider that working the band. To me that is inviting temptataion later when I am starving........I consider that a sign I probably need a fill so I get full and stay full longer. Why have a tool if your gonna do it on your own anyway? I got the band to help me do well, not so I would be in the same place with the willpower and struggle as before surgery. Everyone is different so working the band is different for everyone. It is hard to understand full and the sweet spot until you hit it.

Pam did Dr. Im get back to you?? I have had two days of protiens only. Robin wanted to see how much protien I am eating at a time so we can see if I need a fill. So far about.5 to a cup for most protiens. ok maybe 3/4 a cup!! LOL. But I get hungry before 4 hours. The vegetables and salad over a cup easy...................I think Riley does salad first han protien on top to prevent getting hungry quick. I am craving sugar like crazy. Can watermelon kick the cravings in? I know the crystal light makes me crave sugar so I am trying to change to water................... Pam how is your restriction or do you know?? LOL. How do you know .7 is to tight??? YOu have that fill for a long time. Do you think if you were loser you would have lost better?? 80 pounds is better than regular lap band success.......

We are watching HUGE too!! The girls are big and so young. Sneaking all the candy............... I very well could be as tight as I can be without problems but I can easily eat a cup of just about anything and stuck at 15 pounds lost since May. The proteins are about .5 to 1 cup right now. TOM is over so back to normal.................I would like to be at .5 for what the pouch holds. The goal is .25 but I think my body can't do that I will swell that small. My band hurts or feels like it is streching when the food goes through it. Been doing that since the last fill.

stupid jury duty going on my second day...............need to be at work!!!

They said from day one if you got the band it was mostly effort with the band as your back up.................If you feel like you need more than a backup than RNY would be a more successful option. For me grazing is NOT the issue as much as getting to tight and swelling badly every time I get a fill or unfill. I have only been at my sweet spot briefly becuase of the the fills, unfills and the ER visits................everytime I get close I get to tight again and swell the band shut. I get discouraged and feel like for some reason my body HATES the band or that it is my fault I can't handle fills very well.But I have freely admitted out of all of the group I got banded with I am the only one who has had this issue. Just the way my body deals with having a foriegn object/band.............I think it rebells and argues everytime I get a fill. Like Donna said at the last group the stomach hates to be messed with. I know mine does..........I think I probably need to stay home the next day after a fill next time so I can get used to it and not rush right back to work and stress!! LOL

I sorta think we all have food addictions...........some worse than others. Sometimes the band is enough to break someone of the bad habits, but I think more often it makes it easier to cheat. RNY you can cheat for sure. I know people who do it and still lose like crazy. Eating ice cream and sugar all the time and still losing like crazy. BUT..........the body will eventually catch up with all the abuse. JUst it seems like you can cheat from day one and still lose and be a "success." SLEEVE: I don't know yet how that works since it is new. But your stomach is permenently restricted. WIth the band I know alot of people who have voluntarily asked to get the fluid out cause they wanna eat, or they are going on vacation...........Some get to goal weight and ask for it to be taken out. From what I have read on the board they usually gain back the weight until the fill is put back in. With Sleeve and RNY that isn't an option. LOL. You can't reverse what you did for a vacation or something!! LOL. There is also always a lower stomach to fill up if you get it past the band...............the other two don't have the lower stomach anymore.

I shop thrift stores too........only way to keep up with the jeans sizes. I think I pay 5 dollars for jeans. Now that I am losing slower I don't need to go as often but the first six months I was going once a month. There are lots of cool thrift stores around.............Thrift town is one of my least favorite. There are a couple I know of that always have lots of plus size clothes and alot of the 14/16s................Ali we need to talk-) I might have a couple you don't know about!! Cole: I am considered a lap band success. I have lost 50. Sixty at one time but lost my fill and now struggling to lose that 10 again. But I needed to lose 100. So I am not satisfied with just 50. I think it is a matter of what is success on paper and what do you think personally is success. For me I won't fell like my band worked until I am 100 down. Doesn't mean it didn't help me take 50 off. My person view is that is............if you have a Food Addiction you should not get the band. Because an addiction left untreated can find a way to defeat the band easy. All the surgeries can be defeated but band is very easy to outrun.........you can do it without really knowing or thinking your doing it. Anyone with an addiction that thinks the band (or surgery) will cure it won't succeed or they will get cross addicted to something else. If you don't have a food addiction and just need some motivation and a tool to help the band is great. Not that anyone with a food addiction can't succeed with band but you have to be willing to get the counseling and be willing to serious address the food issues and come up and not eat around them. I think most of us a year or so out realize the different between head and body hunger and how the more weight you lose and the more you take away your comfort..........food the more your gonna struggle and other issues are gonna flare up. WIth the other surgeries it is much harder to outrun them or fool them...............biologically!! So if you know you have serious food addiction or your not willing to work your butt off to manage them than the band is quite easy for addictions to overrun. For me the more the weight falls off and the more I avoid my trigger foods the worse my anxiety gets..............that is something they just don't tell you up front and I don't think they even would know up front. But I have watched about 80% of my banded friends (and RNY) friends got through major life changes ans stressor the first year outta surgery. Divorces, cross addictions, stress, anxiety, anti depressants, ER visits......................along with the weight lost. I really think that the band is for people who don't have a food addiction or who are in recover and working on not using food. Because I assure you an addiction can beat the band easiest out of the three surgeries. That said if your motivated to lose weight shouldn't you also be motivated to get emotionally healthy at the same time................all three surgeries can be beat but the band you can beat right out the door if you don't get the addictions and psychologically issues nipped in the bud quickly. So maybe Kaiser has figure this out without really know why...............just like band fails more often in the first year. I was also told they have a percentage of RNYs gaining back at last 50 pounds or more the second year. Anyway...........thinking just my thoughts today on why sleeve might be better for some and RNY for some and than again band for some. THIS IS NOT THE OPINION OF A DOCTOR!! LOL. I work with addicts and have been for 20 years this is based on my thinking that way and wondering how food addictions play into the picture.................

I went to Arden yesterday and it was very crowded. I wanted to go to the fair today but my daughter doesn't want to go and it doesn't get expensive. I think we are headed out to the river instead........... I agree "alot" is a relative term. 20 out of thousands is nothing........the nurse really didn't know anything about bariatric surgery cause I am overweight still and she thought I didn't need a band!! LOL. Of course I do and I would hate to have that extra 50 on me still!! I ended up eating my veggie burger after three meals yesterday. LOL. That lunch lasted me all day long...........:-) I was suppose to work on call today but my daughter begged me not to. So we are headed out on a girls day!! :-)

WHen I was in the ER at Richmond they said lots of bariatric patients come in to the ER.................but that could be RNY, SLEEVE and BAND. They said lots of people got unfills in ER over the winter............They probably were telling me to much since I was there for awhile and the nurses were very chatty!! They told me I was to skinny for lap band and I was thinking how nice they were!! LOL. :-P NEver mind I have lost almost 50 pounds already!!

Hey Pam........let me know. I emailed my doc but I didn't get an answer at all. I think it is question you aske in person or that they don't to respond to in writing :-) Some interesting things said at the support meeting today. The newer people were talking about what they are being told by the surgeons and case managers. I was just sorta surprized by some of the things they said they were told. Left me confused. THey might still be doing the band but they are pushing the sleeve...............one lady said she wanted the band and the case manager said band doesn't have a good success rate and she should go with the sleeve. The lady said she felt kinda blind sided that they were ok with the band at first and that when it was time to schedule her surgery they were pushing the band over sleeve. I guess a few weeks, months make a big different in what is the "best" surgery. When I had my CM appointment the same person sang the praise of banding and we 100% in support of my going with the band! Now they say it is not successful. I had surgery 15 months ago...............how things change in such a short amount ot time. Wonder what happened over the last 15 months? I just wonder what Kaiser means or what they have seen that makes them comfortable saying the band is not a great success. My question is have they had to remove bands? Have they seen slips or errosions in their program? That is what I am gonna ask next time I get a call or go into the office................any slips or erosions. Are they taking bands out or is it just no weight lose? Slow or no weight loss I can deal............taking bands out and for what reasons I would be concerned and want to know about. Oh well...............that darn comment has had me thinking all day!!

Evening all................fun day!! Very interesting discussion today. We didn't even split there was so much going on. Been thinking about what that lady said about the case manager "guiding" her towards the sleeve instead of the band..........I think maybe what is going on is an informal phasing out of the band not an official, Kaiser approved phaseing out of the band. Seems like the surgeons are also doing the informal thing at least at the Kaiser Richmond location. If people no longer want the band than it phases itself out. DONNA: you mentioned that Kaiser SSF says band is one of their most successful surgeries. So what is different about them and Richmond cause Richmond is saing the opposite. I wanted to ask that during the group ..........just didn't get to it. So what is the difference. Attitude, diet, protien shakes vs. none........different domgraphicsor a different way of keeping and analyzing stats?? Or is it the aftercar and follow up or the pre up preparation. Really would love to know the why behind that................. Well ya know I am gonna have to do some research and ask more question at my next appointment. Another project for me to work on. I always find some interesting stuff when I start to research Seems like emails to the docs might be annoying so I am gonna write my questions down and ask in person. I would like the program to be straight with me though. If you say your keeping the band but than tell 90% of people not to get it..............to me that is still phasing it out. Sounds like an informal decision to phase out the band. If the case manager is saying the success rate with the band is not good I will like the stats. What is the percentage of success to failure? Is the failure slippages/errsions or simply failure to lose. How many of us are ending up in ER and why? Seriously I think we all have a right to know what "no very successful means." That is a very static term and could mean a million different things. Makes me wonder what would be recommended for me if I were to have my first surgeons appointment today?? Is what is best for me dependant on the newest phase or what is populer at the moment?? I am guessing the more people talk the more the trens it is coming out and becoming more obvious...........and am I one of the success stats or the failure stats. Well you know I am gonna ask what category I fit in. I really like truth and facts and solid reasons why people make the decisions they do. Nothing about me without me. I want to be part of the reasoning and decisions about my medical care whether I am a doctor or not..............all of which make me quite annoying to the medical profession I would guess!! :-P I know Kaiser had a case conference about my issues and I told them I was driving over to be in the meeting. LOL. Ah NOT.................but I think I should have been there to have my input!! I still got the outcome I wanted but it took alot of my energy. Ok anyone else just sorta felt weird about the huge push for the sleeve at Kaiser Richmond? Makes me wonder if having my band is something I should worry about...........................