The Greater Fool

This is gonna be one of those posts I should not make. First, do what your Doc says. He's the boss. Stay on plan. :looks around to see if anyone is watching: OK, my Doc never asked for a liquid diet before surgery. What he did ask for is no food or drink after 6:00pm the night before. He oddly preferred that my stomach and upper intestines were empty, and I obliged. Actually, I had a meal planned late in the after noon, but skipped it. Of course, I was on my pre-op weightless diet which involved, of all things, actual food. The horror! I also failed my pre-op diet weightless diet, so there's that. Your surgeon won't be able to tell if you had a huge 10k calorie meal 3 nights before. The reason for the draconian pre-op diets are to shrink you and some organs as much as possible to make the surgery marginally easier. This is no small thing. They had to take out my HUGE gallbladder, get around my fatty liver, fix a hernia, do something about GERD, so I had a 3 hour open surgery. I don't remember much as I slept through it. When I woke up the first thing he said was "You have massive sleep apnea!" "Oh." :shrug: The laparoscopic folks were threatened with "If you don't lose weight and we can't get in there, we'll have to open you up" but that was no threat for me. :loooks around again: So remember kids, ALWAYS do what your surgeons ask, it's for the best! Tek

I know the quantities I *generally* can eat of most foods, but even then many are moving close to the cusp of dumping even when I don't. An ill considered extra bite and I'm over the top. Or, if I'm just slightly tired, or slightly other things, the needle moves a little and what I generally can eat is too much. Which is why I generally don't eat the things that have taken me over the edge. It's simply not worth dumping every 3rd or 7th time I eat it. I imagine everyone learns this eventually. My follow-up appoints after the 2nd month followed the same routine: 1) Check in; 2) Weigh in; 3) Talk to Doc about the last month, my plan, my eating. 4) Make next appointment, pay, walk out. No examination. You will need to use your words. Make sure your Doc understands your issues, and that you need a path to correction. Any questions you ask here you should ask your Doc. If there is a difference in answers, your Doc wins. Do that. But, we are will to share experiences so you know you aren't alone, weird, or crazy. Well, related to WLS. The other stuff, we live with Tek

I'm sorry, but liquid i.v. is just like any other electrolyte drink like gatoraide. It CANNOT hydrate 3x more than simple water. Their CLAIM is that it hydrates 3x faster. Even that is questionable. check the ingredients. 11g of SUGAR. There is your 45 calories right there. 500mg Sodium. May help fluid into bloodstream quicker, but also water retention. it has 2x the salt of gatorade, 1/2 the sugar. Serving Size 1 Stick Pack(s) Servings Per Container 16 Amount Per Serving % DV Calories 45 Calories from Fat 0 Total Fat 0g Saturated Fat 0g Trans Fat 0g Cholesterol 0mg Total Carbohydrate 11g 4% Dietary Fiber 0g Sugars 11g Protein 0g Sodium 500mg 21% Potassium 370mg 11% Water works, we're in no hurry. The military gives salt pills to prevent dehydration. Think about it. Tek

You've done your research which is outstanding. Whichever way you go, success is about working your Doc/Nut's process. Trying to mix other program plans implies you think you know better. You got you where you are. Listen and follow. Try not to test things as long as you can, but we all do it eventually. Then get back to plan. Your thoughts on the RNY match closely to mine. RNY has better statistics in success, but also more complications. Dumping itself is a complication most of us wanted, for the reasons you seem to. I too wanted the negative reinforcement of dumping if I ate wrong. Little did I know that most of the negative feedback would be doing the mechanics of eating wrong: Not chew enough, too fast, not paying attention. They work also. 17+ years later I've done things of which I never dreamed. And my plumbing still works as designed in the operating room. I have a good life. Tek

Congratulations and welcome. Tek

Sorry, was going by your profile. It says MGB and 6 weeks ago. ETA: Crap, 2019. I'm an idiot. Tek

Back in the early 2000s there as a protein powder that advertised here that everyone said tasted like NesQuick chocolate powder. Turns out NesQuick chocolate powder was the main ingredient, and the company got into huge legal trouble. I didn't worry much as my program didn't include protein drinks. But it did teach me to research any product or program that I counted on for my health. Don't believe product claims.

Thanks for the invite. I'm not overly hopeful but I'll pitch it to the wife.

When I had RNY I could only be weighed on my Doc's scale, as I was too big for any others. Even hospital scales didn't go so high. Once I could weigh elsewhere, I didn't. By then I had learned I didn't need to know my weight to succeed. Now, these years later, I weigh at my annual physical. That's it. How I feel, what I can do, those are the important measurements. Thus, I say to thee, cast away that demon scale. Be free and joyful in good health! Tek

You may not have much control, as simple shock (such as surgery) can cause hair loss. Enjoy the additional micro-ounces you will lose It will probably come back. If not, I'll bet you can rock the bald look! Tek

If you are eating on plan the scale is lying to you. Cast it aside! Tek, who doesn't weigh himself.

After 17+ years RNY I still physically can't.

Thanks for the correction. I guess things have changed as all my DS friends claimed no restriction back when. They often taunted me with the amounts and types of food they ate. ETA: Also, my DS friends all had theirs done in a single surgery, and this was 16-20 years ago. So while some surgeons may have done it in two surgeries, at least some didn't.

Narcotics. Lots of narcatics. Seriously, the migraine meds I tried either conflicted with other meds, or didn't work, or were worse than the migraine. I had liver issues, so anything hard on my liver is a no-no. I take narcotics for chronic joint pain from arthritis, DDD, and carrying around an extra 400 pounds for 20 years. For migraines, a cool compress in a dark, quiet room with meds to make me sleep until it's gone is my go to. One migraine years ago, probably my worst ever, I slept for 5 days. It got so bad I was afraid I was going do die. Then it got worse, and I was afraid I wouldn't die. Fortunately, they are getting less frequent. I think it is the weight loss primarily, but I've also change my job to be much less stressful. Hang in there, and good luck with surgery. Tek

Your profile says you are getting Mini Gastric Bypass. Sleeve is different. Back in the day, MGB had issues. I don't know if it's still true, but be sure what you are having done to your body. I think all of us worried if we were choosing the right surgery and if that surgery would help us defeat our negative habits. It's up to you to think it through for your situation. Just about any restrictive surgery (RNY, sleeve) will help with comfort food because for many months you won't be able to eat much in a sitting. This can still be defeated if you graze (eat small amounts constantly, aka snacking). As such, initially you will need to focus on eating habits, like only eating at the table and allowing meals to last only 30 minutes. Good habits are what your building. Mal-absorption procedures (RNY, DS) mean that not everything you eat is absorbed as well as now. Basically, if you eat 500 calories you may only absorb 499-250. Even grazing hurts your program less but do it enough and it can. Their are other important differences in surgeries: Sleeve is only restrictive; RNY is restrictive, malabsorbtive, and about 50% of patients dump; DS is not restrictive, more malabsorbtive, and no dumping. I knew many people that went with DS because they did not want to change eating habits. I chose RNY because I did want to change. Think it through. Good luck. Tek

I actually appreciate getting opposing views and opinions from folks. Generally, my OCD causes me to think (repeatedly) through all the possibilities I can imagine, after which point I make a choice. If someone, anyone, brings up a new view that makes me unsure, then there must be something there. I then discuss, beat it to death, then rethink everything repeatedly, then make a choice... again. So, if you can be made unsure, think everything through and choose. Then, if you hear the same argument again, you can dismiss it out of hand because you've already put the thought in and don't need to do it again. If you honestly believe you can lose weight without surgery then you are correct to pause. Rearranging your insides is a drastic move, particularly if you don't believe you need it. I believed I could lose it without surgery for 20 years. I was stupendously wrong. Drastic was all that was left. Losing weight without surgery is hard. Losing weight with surgery is hard differently. Good luck, make the right choice for you. Tek

For me, stress that you are putting on your body through now would give me a migraine that would put me in bed for a couple days hoping I would die soon. Fortunately, I didn't have any special diet leading to surgery, but post-op I did have a wopper migraine. The good news for me is that my migraines have become rare visitors. I had a horrible one about a month ago when I realized I hadn't had one in over a year. I hope you can hang in and have similar results as me or better. Good luck. Try to relax, you know what to do. Tek

There may not be many new games, but most of the old games are still out there and doing well. Everquest (the first I played) is still there, Everquest II, World of Warcraft (too cartoony for us), all the Ultimas, just off the top of my head. But, if and when they unplug EQ/EQ2, we probably wouldn't move to another. My wife learned EQ mechanics and has never been able to adjust to other game mechanics. Somehow, the first way is the right way, all others are wrong. Good luck, Tek

Just to be clear, I don't think even regular cookies, cake, or even candy are necessarily evil. Eating such one once in a while is not the end of the world. I've eaten such things over the years. I don't really remember, but I'd bet I ate such things at least once in the first 6 months. When I do, even these years later, I am exceptionally cautious because I know I'm playing with fire. My comment about my support group used someone else's post that responded perhaps a bit critically to you. My surgeon's plan, amazingly, did not include cookies, sweets, and such. However, the support group was all about eating off plan and how to not dump. This is support I didn't need nor want. However, imagine you've had surgery. You're in pain for a few days. You get through the first 3 months and now you are finally able to eat generally with success. You are losing weight. Now that you are doing so well, you decide to treat yourself to cookies, or candy, or whatever. Let's say cookies. You eat one. Two. Three. You now wait, wondering if you may have gone too far. Will you dump? After all, in your research you learned that only about 50% of post-ops actually dump. Then you dump furiously and horribly. Sweats, lethargy, sickness, etc. Was it worth it? I hope not, but what if it is? Worth it or not, what have you learned? How will it impact future choices? Worse, you didn't dump. Didn't even feel anything negative. THIS is the scarier scenario, and it scares the crap out of most post-ops. What did you learn? That you can eat cookies with impunity. That is a dangerous lesson. How will it impact future choices? Good luck. Tek

Thanks. Las Vegas is where I had my surgery. Good luck. Tek

... when you get annoyed when people keep commenting on your losing weight. Tek

wrong thread. I don't know what Blossom is. This is a clever way of covering my mistake.

Anxiety often makes me screw up the mechanics of eating in one way or another. It is possible to eat even puree too quickly. Pause between small bites. Check with your Doc/Nut on what you are pureeing. Back when I did puree, it was supposed to be much protein, little other stuff. If I ate what your are eating it would kick me to my arse, even now 17 years later. Oatmeal would plug me right up if I didn't drink with it. If your Doc/Nut are ok with what you are eating, then don't worry. Plans differ. I'm just a voice on the interwebs. Good luck. Tek

Yes, we all have different plans as our surgeons / nutritionists have different beliefs and theories on how to use their surgery. It's OK. Following the plan is most important now. You are about 6 weeks? Follow the plan. Don't worry about your weight. The scale is lying to you. Your body on your plan has minimal calories, so you ARE losing. With all your water, you may be retaining fluids. Have you asked the Doc/Nut about the headaches? What did they say? Demand answers and actions. Interestingly, the 64oz a day of fluids thing was pulled out of someone's backside way, way back with no evidence. Studies don't support it. 80oz water MAY be causing the headaches and hunger. I know when I drink too much, I get headaches and hungry because that much water just washes everything through. Remember, there is nothing between your mouth and your intestines, everything goes straight through. Its the big reason you are not supposed to drink when you eat, to give the food a chance to move through slower. Don't start snacking yet (IMHO). Healthy snacks are still snacks and off plan. I did SF Popsicles as snacks. They satisfy the eating urge and count as fluid. I still eat them when I think to grab 'em. This *IS* difficult. You had yourself cut open and your innards re-arranged, the very definition of drastic. Talk to your Doc/Nut about how you feel. Exactly what you are doing. If they don't give you an answer or solution, DEMAND one. It's up to you to advocate for yourself and get them to understand. Tek

This is why I stopped attending my surgeon's support group. All they talked about is how to eat what they weren't supposed to. Not the kind of support I needed.