The Greater Fool

The "only problem" was that you were able to eat A LOT more than you expected? Really? Tek

I have to tell you I've tried several times to reply and gave up because it's so easy to screw up when trying to help with such issues. I am offering this in an attempt to be helpful so if I do so in a clumsy or apparently insensitive way trust that it is not my intent. Fools rush in where wise men fear to tread... First of all, it WILL get better. You will make it better. Let's consider hunger. So much can go into a feeling of hunger. Let's see if we can spark some ideas, or at worst, rule out some bad ones: 1) I dare say that feeling hungry 1/2 hour after eating is likely not your body crying out for food to stave off starvation. Though, after months of draconian diets it wouldn't be a crazy idea that you very well may be on the verge of starvation. If your meals of 1/2 hour are preventing you from eating enough you very well may be on the verge of starvation; 2) We didn't get to being morbidly (or worse) obesity by our good eating habits. We have years of bad habits that have become normal. These habits build expectations both mentally and physically. Simply, these bad habits are associated with satiation. Now, we can't eat to the level our habits require and our bodies expect; 3) In addition to volume we also went straight to our "comfort foods" which as the name suggests comforted us. We perhaps each derived different comforts from such foods. In point of fact we probably had different foods for different purposes and perhaps even different rituals involved; The solutions for all of these things are things we've probably heard in relation to many of our failed diet plans in the past, but they are correct. It's about building new, good habits. Some of the rules we are given are intended to help with the new habits. Critically, it takes time to make the new habits replace the old habits. 1) For the new (good) habits to replace the old (bad) habits requires strict compliance. For a time, even small violations will cause learning the new habits to be that little bit harder, and take that little bit longer. Stay focused on the plan and the prize; 2) The mechanics of eating are a learning process. The "No eating longer than 1/2 hour" rule is to prevent you from learning to graze. My Doc had the same rule. Really, it is a guideline, because if you aren't getting enough to eat consistently, you are starving yourself, and no wonder you feel hungry if you aren't eating but a fractional part of your requirements. I couldn't get enough down in 1/2 in the first 2 months, so I set a minimum volume I need to eat, and I ate that even if it took longer than 1/2 hour. Work to improve every meal. 3) The idea that no one call tell you how much to eat is, frankly, ridiculous. Having a well defined plan is, in my not so humble opinion, is critical to success. If your team has only given you do's and don'ts then use those to create a well defined plan. My teams plan was simple and from what I've seen would work with most every other plan. 3 meals per day, each of 3oz protein + 1oz veggies, no white carbs. I counted calories, protein, and carbs and it turns out to be correct for what most plans look for. So, define your meal plan if your team won't; Your food CAN be enjoyable. Don't go overboard on super healthy, super protein, super whatever, especially if it's not appetizing and sustainable. You are NOT on a diet, but creating your new normal. Stick with it. 4) Drinking: 64oz is usually a number surgeons quote when they quote a number. The whole idea of 64oz was created out of thin air there is no science to support it. Science supports allowing thirst to guide your drinking. Too much can throw electrolytes out of balance and even if it's 1/2 hour after eating it will still wash everything through. If you are not drinking enough then more water may be better, once you are drinking enough, more is not necessarily better. 5) It might not be a bad idea to get a counselor's help. I would focus on habits and triggers rather than history, but that's me. 6) Another thing that may help is distraction. Rather than sitting focusing on how hungry and miserable you are, find something into which you can put your focus. Books, video games, whatever. Even :gulp: walking around, going to a mall. Again, whatever makes you happy. Success breeds success. Hopefully, the longer to do it right the easier it will become. If it's not working, try different approaches, different choices, but stay within your guidelines. You will eventually hit on something that works for you. You are almost through the hard part. Good luck, Tek

Welcome. 66 pounds at 2 months is pretty darned good. I started a fair chunk higher than you (I also suspect I started out taller at 6'4") and managed roughly a couple pounds less than you in the first 2 months. I recall also being mildly disappointed and I had to scale back my expectations. Continued success and good luck, Tek

It's been a very long time since I have have been required or inclined to sip. When I was binge running 2-3 years post-op, I never drank over much at one go as that carries it's own issues for me when running, On the other hand I can in no way match my drinking pre-op. I could inhale a liter in less than 30 seconds. Now, I can take a gulp, perhaps two, but I'm out of the habit of doing more. So many things food and drink are simply new habit rather than a purposeful, thoughtful choice. Good luck, Tek

My guess is that weighing 1/4 what you did pre-op is the difference. Congratulations! [Assuming weighing 1/4 less is better than being able to hold your liquor ] Tek

Generally, VSG is only a bit of restriction. All the plumbing is as it was pre-op. So, generally, there is no reason tolerances or much else should change. In some VSG folks, and depending on circumstances, alcohol may dump through the pyloric valve quick than pre-op, causing an effect similar to Gastric Bypass below. There could also be an impact that because you eat less and weigh less that eventually the buzz could hit slightly harder. For Gastric Bypass, in addition to the restriction, the pyloric valve is no longer in play so any alcohol dumps straight into the intestines. Generally this would cause the alcohol to hit nearly all at once, making it feel like it's hitting harder because it's processing all at once. Because all you drink is processed immediately my Doc* felt it was harder on the liver, so with my severe fatty liver he cautioned me not to overdrink if I could avoid it. As with all things, your mileage may vary. Good luck, Tek * I took what Doc said as fact though I don't recall researching it on my own as I usually would.

Everyone reacts differently to surgery. The 3 week stall is a thing, but it does not necessarily wait until the 3rd week. Your surgeon isn't worried and he did comment that you were a lower BMI to start, probably lost weight before surgery, so not losing much the first 3 weeks does not sound way out of whack. So... Get off the scale. It is crazy making and distracting and discouraging you. You don't need it for the important stuff. The important stuff: keep following your plan. Exercise if you are so inclined. Keep doing both. If you follow your plan, you will do fine. It will be OK. Honest. Good luck, Tek

What does your medical team say? Good luck, Tek

"My, my. What a rude question!" Good luck, Tek

Keep pressing the limits and the limits will expand. "Grazing" is a way some bingers have used to get around limits until the limits are expanded. For some folks the compulsion is greater than the discomfort and herffing. I've known a couple of folks that managed it, pushing though discomfort, pain, and herffing. Being a former binge eater ("if one is good twelve is better") I'm glad I learned I wanted to binge less than suffer and herff. It took an amazingly few encounters with my limit to convince me to stop encountering my limit. I'm not sure I'd have asked for help if I didn't learn. "Herff" is todays favorite word. Good luck, Tek

With enough effort, anything is possible. Tek

Get off the scale. It's designed to screw with your mind. Trust your plan. Trust how you feel. Good luck, Tek

I do dump. I started at over 700, when I got down to 310 (my goal was 210), I started a program similar to Couch to 5K. I accomplished that and just kept going. Eventually I thought a marathon would be an interesting goal and I targeted the Valley of Fire marathon (outside Las Vegas). I ran 5 marathons in a year starting about 3 years post-op, during which I was running 70 to 90+ miles a week. I usually ran in the mornings before work, though there were periods where I did "2 a days". Right when I woke up I mixed up an ice-tea / Gatorade mix that wasn't terrible and drank it down. It woke me up and got me moving but I don't think it made much of a difference during my runs. During the runs I just did water. After runs I also did a regular yogurt for recovery. I tried the little squeeze packs and found they were ok on normal days (10-13 miles), but they would cause me to dump on longer runs, so abandoned them and anything else. Again, I didn't perceive any difference with the squeeze thing. My normal plan was 3 meals per day of 3oz protein, 1oz veggies. Because of the running I hit and shot way past a normal BMI. Eventually I was up to 5 meals per day plus a protein drink. The protein drink was instead of a 6th meal as I already felt I was eating all day. It slowed my weight loss. I hated (HATED!) eating so much, what a turn. Good luck, Tek

Mistakes may happen (especially if you dump). It's not the end of the world. Good luck, Tek

As I posted a minute ago on another thread, no or minor problems is by far the norm for WLS surgeries. People tend to post about problems, looking for help, support, just to rant, or in some cases to get pity. It's human nature. Folks having troubles early post op are working to get to were most people are: On plan. People with little to no problem generally just keep doing it quietly. And yet, unusually, we have 2 threads today about contrary to apparently most others, things are going well. If things are going rough, keep working and you will get (up) to plan. You will get there with focus, effort, persistence, time and in some cases medical and/or moral support. Once you get to plan, whether it was easy or hard, stay laser focused on staying on plan. For some it's hard to get up to plan for others it's hard to stay down to plan. It is easiest to stay on plan in the first few months. Use these months to make your plan normal. It will serve you later. Continued good luck, Tek

Forums like this can skew perception. People tend to post about problems. They want help, or support, or just to rant. It's human nature. Amazingly enough, these are the MINORITY of patients. When things are going well or as expected, as they usually do, people just keep doing what their doing... quietly. Thus, we read about problem after problem, or perhaps more accurately, the same problems over and over. Understand that generally, people having problems are NOT eating to plan (yet). They are having difficulties that are preventing it and, again generally, they are doing their best to get to plan. If you are sailing smoothly along and are following your plan, you are doing great. Continue to focus on your plan, stay on your plan, be a plan-nazi. This will serve you later. And my personal bugaboo: Stay off the scale. The scale creates most non-problems on this forum. Continued good luck, Tek

I started at over 700 pounds. My advice: Take everything one step at a time. Research the available surgeries and keep researching until you find the surgery that best works for you. Know the good, the bad, and the ugly so there are no surprises. Do not overwhelm yourself. Follow your plan. Understand your plan. FOLLOW YOUR PLAN. Make your plan your new 'normal.' Be patient. Do what you can sustain. This is for life, for life. Don't trust advice from the internet, including my advice. Talk to your Medical team. Good luck, Tek

I had RNY in April 2003 after doing a massive amount of reading and research. My program was fairly straightforward where I effectively started out in what most folks call "maintenance mode." I reached and passed the goal of which I dreamed and the goal of which I never dreamed. Eventually I was able to get back to a normal weight. My RNY has been a terrific teaching tool. I had some challenges relearning how to eat. I've had challenges with dumping. Such things have been the "stick" where being a normal weight has been the "carrot." I've internalized my program to such an extent that I rarely think about it anymore. Likewise I don't think about my weight anymore, only weighing myself at my annual physicals. Life is good.

Drat! Missed it by 1.5 years. Good Luck, Tek

Congratulations! I started a fair bit higher than that 400s. I also started walking at about 300 and quickly got up to 8-10+ miles a day. I never started weight lifting. I did start running. Who knew I would enjoy it. Good luck, Tek

On some of these I don't recall if they were a pre-op goal or not: Health issues resolved; New health issues revealed; Buying normal sized clothes; Riding rides (I was way too large). Boy have I ridden the rides; Getting into a bathtub. With room for my wife; I wanted to run, just to do it. I ran 5 marathons, one of which was the San Francisco Marathon where I got to run across the Golden Gate bridge; Chairs no longer vex me. Flying is an option without the belt-extender parade; Horseback riding with wife on vacation; Kayaking on vacation; Sex. There, I said it; I now do housework and all the cooking; Rode a bike to work for a few years; Can tie my own shoes while I am standing; Honestly, so many things of which I never thought; I wanted to dance but I still lack rhythm. Weight loss doesn't solve everything; Kids still make me anxious. People no longer walk into walls, poles, etc. staring at me. People don't automatically get out of my way now. I wanted to dump, and I do. Occasionally it's a real pain in my arse. Good luck, Tek

I knew it when I decided to have it. Good luck, Tek

I was too large for any scale but my surgeons so it really wasn't a choice. But it was a tremendous benefit. I *never* saw a stall but rather consistent weight loss month after month. When I got to a weight where I fit on a home scale (which was a goal) I used it for a couple weeks, then got bored with it. I learned that my surgeon really didn't care about my weight but was concerned with how I was doing on the plan, how was my life, was I having issues. In point of fact, my weight never came up unless I brought it up. I took all this to heart and stopped worrying about my weight but focused on my plan, how I felt, how my life was going. I still don't weigh myself. I get weighed at my annual physical and that's it. I stay on plan and that aspect of my life takes care of itself. The rest is where my head is. Good luck, Tek

I was 6'4" weighed 700+ and got down to 180 which was way too low for me, then managed to get back up to 220, which I'm happy with, though less happy with now being 6'2" Good luck, Tek

If you're happy with your current weight, and not simply settling... Congratulations! You're at goal! Good luck, Tek