CyclicalLoser

Hello again everyone, I am pretty new here and have mostly been on the pre-op pages. I am in the process of getting cleared for my RNY bypass/revision from lap band placed 8 years ago. I am back at my lap band surgery weight, but the band has been wide open for a few years. Anyways, in preparing for this elective surgery, I have been very honest with myself about the extremely low (0.4% I see a lot) chances of dying with this surgery. After having the lap band, I also realize (somewhat) about long term effects from the band. I am not near 600 pounds (I am about half that), but I watch "My 600# Life" to help motivate me to move forward with the progress. One of the things I saw on a recent show was dental problems caused by what I think was the bypass. Lately, it seems as if Dr. Now has been performing more VSGs (Probably in an effort to reduce anesthesia time), so it is possible it was a VSG. Being the inquisitive type, and just recently finishing graduate school, I went into research mode. I've found some indications that teeth erosion (Some coined it "Meth mouth") are common with any form of weight loss surgery. I've read several hypothesis for this, but I won't go into it. I suppose I'm trying to find out how widespread it is. Thus far, NIH peer-reviewed studies show some correlation, but I want to know from y'all if this is true. This is sad, but while I can afford the RNY surgery with my insurance, I cannot afford replacing teeth with implants. I've had bruxism over the last 30 years (Worn a night guard for the last ~8) and my lower molars are hanging on for dear life. I'm a sneeze away from 4 crowns as it is. Nevertheless, I don't want to "help" the teeth decay. In doing this research, I found another discomforting parallel, the increased prevalence of esophageal cancer with WLS patients. I believe the main theory is that GERD is changing the cellular structure from repeated contact with stomach acid. The studies that I have read (At least what I can remember right now) included RNY in the groupings, which confuses me because my surgeon is telling me that there is zero stomach acid that can contact the esophagus. I would have expected this with the Sleeve patients, but not this. So my second question is how widespread is this? For people that have been on the boards a long time, does this affect many people? Last question- Are there any other long term consequences from vitamin/mineral deficiencies, assuming one takes the daily supplements prescribed by the doctor? I'm wondering if the body is "stealing" calcium from teeth since it doesn't get much any more? Thank you in advance. I know this is a morbid/deep post, but I want to make sure I am well informed before I go through with this procedure.

FluffyChix and Sosewsue61 - I'm not looking to attempt to (Again) lose the weight without some sort of assistance. When I was in my 20's, I went from 263 to 163 entirely on my own. I was the poster child for the Subway diet. I went there 7 days a week, ate the exact same thing. Ate under 1000 cals a day, and burned almost 1000 a day (According to the calorie counts on the gym equipment). But as with all of my "successes" I gained it back quite quickly. Mistake? Maybe it was because I didn't incorporate heavy lifting. More likely, I did not have the support with discussion boards and blogs and so forth like this. I have always seemed to have a problem with the maintaining weight phase. I work in a highly scientific field, so being impartial and rigorously examining all paths and possibilities has essentially been ingrained in me for the last 15 years. It is because of this that I go to the nth degree down the pro's and con's path. Although bias is verboten within my field, I admit to myself that I am biased towards getting the surgery. Because of that, I think I spend more time trying to counter my bias examining potential. My intent for this post is that the two issues I mentioned are often not mentioned in "standard" (less academia) literature or discussed as a side effect during information seminars. It was a completely new angle for me to study, but I wanted to get some empirical evidence from my own population, since I am not satisfied with the conclusions made by the researchers thus far. As Creekimp13 mentioned, while informative, these studies (for the most part) concentrate only on WLS patients, and not the double blind "gold standard" of research. Granted, I am positive it is difficult to track WLS candidates that did not get WLS, but I would think such data would exist in simply brilliant record keeping such as the Framingham Nurses study. I agree, my path, without significant intervention, is ultimately diabetes and then cardiovascular death. Grandfather died of 2 strokes and a heart attack at 57. Father had a quintuple bypass in his 50's. Other grandfather died of a heart attack. (Granted grandfathers smoked like a chimney and were both alcoholics). Diabetes runs in my family, and thus far with an a1c of 4.9, I'm doing quite well, but I know that it is inevitable, and frankly it is the #1 motivator for me to get the surgery. Fix the root cause (obesity) and dozens (if not hundreds) of other related complications disappear or are mitigated by a great deal Sadly, I agree that dental work is in my future for sure, and if one wants something enough, they will make it happen by working extra jobs or lifestyle modifications (conserve money). I suppose my biggest concern is that the extraordinary cost that is inevitable, will be a recurrent expense (Due to the WLS-induced decreased longevity). That being said, I wholeheartedly admit this involves a lot of speculation and future prediction, something that I believe no one is skilled at other than the Lord. Thank you both for your honest and candid opinions, I am all ears, believe me. FluffyChix, thank you very much for sharing your resources, later today I intend to go through it.

I'm not joking, I lived across Avon road. Unless they moved, I literally lived in the sub across the street. Small world. And allow me to pause to thank you for the work you do. Although I am not blind, I know they are instrumental for those that need them. When I work out my fitbit-esque band (Huawei) doesn't track my "steps" on the elliptical that well, but I do get in a mile in 20 minutes. That's terrible I know, but that is what I "ran" when in PE in high school, quite a while ago. I now live on the side of a mountain, so making a trip around my neighborhood is a considerable climb, so it is quite a workout. I would say pre-exercise, I was at about 2500 steps a day. Now I am about 5300 or so. But I find other ways to work it in, I walk quite a ways when I park, and just today I walked down 6 flights of stairs.

Thank you again for all of your thoughts and information. I haven't been doing as well as I should be, but that is entirely my fault and I've been logging my food intake and now have a fitbit (knockoff) that does help me track my steps. Over the last week I've been serious about exercising and do 20 minutes a day on the elliptical. I know that isn't very good, but I'm coming from being very sedentary, so it is enough to get my heart working pretty good. I intend to increase it more as time goes on. I've been attending a monthly group nutrition/diet group. I'm thinking I need to push out the surgery - not for the surgeon, but for me to demonstrate to myself that I am willing to put forth the effort. I am down about 8 pounds, but we all know how hydration can really cloud the numbers. Thank you again, I really appreciate it. BTW, I was a michigander for 20 years. Rochester Area when young, went to Michigan Tech and also Michigan State. I still have family there in the flint area. Moved out here because of the weather.

Creekimp13, I agree with all of your points, I really do. There are certainly a lot of pros and cons of it. In my case, my C-Reactive Protein is over 5, and that is off the charts for chronic inflammation, which is an outstanding way to have a fatal cardiovascular event, or just about any form of cancer. I'm just trying to weigh out (pun not intended) all of the options, benefits and consequences. I haven't heard about either of the aforementioned consequences in the books I've read, nor the information seminar. I do plan on checking with the nurse to see if she could get the surgeon's take on the studies. I'm confident he has seen them and determined that the benefits outweigh the risks, but nevertheless I still like to have all the bases covered. And yes, that guy had said he had never been to the dentist, so I only used that episode as the "seed" for further research I definitely agree that the key to success is proper follow-up and keeping an eye on blood levels and the EGD!

Sammi, my post was not to scare others, I apologize it does sound like it frightened you. Everything I have found that is trustworthy show it is plausible. Some is conflicting saying that sugar-intake actually rises post-WLS, which I find a hard time believing. Nevertheless the Ketosis (Highly acidic, pseudo-alcohol breath) does explain it somewhat, along with acid erosion if people frequently eat until they vomit. Here are the studies I have been looking at. I won't bother citing them because I'm no longer in Graduate school, but the authors are listed in these links. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/29304473/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16989694 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5467377/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26409987 This is for the esophageal cancer, a very, very small population, so I would take it with a grain of salt. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3016829/ [edit] I realize this is just a single piece of evidence here, and I intend to investigate it further.

Our surgeon doesn't perform the DS, but maybe I will have my wife talk to him about it nonetheless. I am so sorry to hear about your RA, my grandmother-in-law has it, and I know first hand how much it affects her quality of life. For a while, she found relief with remicade, if that helps at all. It is extremely expensive and I think is delivered with an IV. Hopefully, the weight loss might help relieve the stress on some of the joints. I've also been reading up on C-Reactive Protein (Mine is quite high) and it's effects (Inflammation). I remember reading elsewhere that white adipose tissue markedly increases inflammation, so hopefully that will help as well. I have Eczema which is also an inflammation/immune system issue, and I am really hoping the weight loss will reduce or eliminate it.

Hello everyone, I am moving along the process of my gastric bypass fairly well, no surgery date yet, but 2 months left of the classes and all I's will be dotted. I'm actually writing this for my wife. My wife is going along the process with me, but she is about a month behind me. She has many issues, and we're trying to figure out the best surgery for her. In order to keep this post as short as possible, I will briefly summarize here: Early forties Beginning stages of abnormal menstration (irregular/delayed menses) Migraines, sometimes occular. She has tried Topamax, but it caused significant (permanent) hair loss (Has been off it a year). It helped, but made her nauseous when she took it and became somewhat forgetful. The Triptains sometimes help, but sometimes are worse. The only thing that helps more than half the time is excedrin migraine, which has an NSAID in it. She had them in 20's onwards, sometimes birth control helped, sometimes not. They seem to have gotten worse after the birth of our child. She no longer takes BC because it is not needed (I got a vasectomy). She also has GERD quite bad. Docs put her on protonix, but we are very concerned about the anticholinergic effects of PPIs (Alzheimers and Dementia) and so she grins and bears it using zantac (Still anticholinergic, but a lower amount) and tums. We have yet to try Pepcid AC, which is not anticholinergic. She has very bad knee and hip pain, and has restless leg syndrome She has a sweet tooth (Pastries being the worst). She is not a diabetic, but her fasting blood levels are over 100, so she is technically prediabetic. Her father has diabetes. She is a bit worried that after bypass, she will no longer be able to eat sweet foods at all. While it is certainly not a good idea (After all they got us here), for legitimately rare circumstances (Holidays and birthdays) can sugar-free items be consumed (ice cream/cake/pastries)? She has a slow metabolism, but didn't like how ill she felt on synthroid, so she stopped taking it. I think she has high testosterone and low estrogen, but I could be wrong, I can't remember the test results. She also has motion sickness pretty bad. I don't know if that is connected to the migraines, or if others that had it noticed it went away or got worse after WLS? According to the surgeon, the bypass is the best cure for GERD in the world, because it is impossible to get it with no stomach acid. But, NSAIDS are a no-no. The Sleeve (I've read) allows for NSAIDS, but sometimes makes GERD even worse. Plue the Sleeve doesn't have a negative reinforcement of high carbs like the bypass does. In the information seminar, they mentioned that WLS sometimes reduces or cures migraines, so maybe that is a moot issue? Between the two, I think the migraines are the more severe. She gets them several times a month, at least once to twice a week, and they are worse before/during/after menses. She has not tried botox injections (Botulism is not something we want to inject into our bodies), and she has not tried antidepressants or acupuncture. Antidepressants because of the weight gain, and the anticholinergic effects many of them have. (I take Luvox and Lamictal, but they are both very low). I'm sure that others here have had similar NSAID/GERD & Bypass/Sleeve decisions, and I'm curious which direction you're going (or did go), why, and if you like or regret your decision. Diabetes runs rampant in my family, and because of that, I want the bypass, and I think that is the best way for her as well (Get rid of the GERD and the Pre-Diabetes, and likely lose the most weight helping the sore knees/hips), but I want to cry (And I'm a guy) when I see her constantly suffering with the migraines. My wife and I thank you very much for any advice you have. God bless you all!

Thank you RickM. That makes sense on a number of levels. If the most vulnerable procedure cannot tolerate NSAIDS, it is easier to tell all patients to avoid them, and I think most would agree that not taking them (As painful as it may be) is the healthiest option. I have spinal stenosis (L4-S1) and two bulges. Ironically, I got them when I weighed about 170 pounds after a very OCD-like dieting "binge". When it flares up, I can't walk - it's that bad. So the tylenol bottle and I are unfortunately good friends. I've found help with TENS devices, antidepressants, bio-freeze, and ironically sleeping less than 8 hours, but even so, sometimes I grab the Tylenol because nothing else is helping. I don't like the idea of narcodic pain relievers (Some of which contain tylenol anyway) which is why I try to grin and bear it. My wife is already compiling her list for the surgeon. I think in the mean time, we may look into the acupuncture to see if it helps. If it does, then it makes the decision easier. Thankfully, I am in CA, where I believe acupuncture is fairly prevalent. Thank you as well for the anatomical/vulnerability information. A while back I discovered the DS because I was wondering if there was a way to kind-of combine the two in order to keep the pyloric valve. Our surgeon doesn't do it, but from what I've read, it is reserved for higher BMI's than my 43.

I saw the topic and couldn't stand not to reply. I had my band placed in 2010. I weighed 293. I got down to 220, but never was able to eat correctly. I never felt full, and even though I now have all of the fluid out, I still have considerable constriction. I am now about 300 pounds. My port has flipped almost 90 degrees so when a doctor called me a wimp for asking for lidocane, I told him I'd give him $100 if he got it on the first try. It took him 20 tries. It was so bad, he took extensive notes in my file on how to point the needle. From then on, they could usually get it in about 5 tries. I have occasional referred shoulder pain, my surgeon for my upcoming RNY told me that it could be scar tissue from the band irritating the nerve that goes to the diaphram. I won't go as far as saying the band is garbage - it's not, but the new statistics show just how bad it performs compared to others. I strongly urge you to consider other options. God bless, and I hope you are able to find a procedure that works well for you!

Thank you all for your replies. We both know our addictions or overeating of poor carb-laden foods is what got us here. My mother told me she thought there was no NSAIDS witht he sleeve either, but she wasn't sure because she hasn't been able to take them for a long time because she has kidney disease. The comment about everybody being different is also what our surgeon told us. He said some people can't eat red meat ever again, while other's it's something else, yet other people tolerate everything fine. Our biggest concern was which procedure is best as far as (my incorrect thought) that NSAIDS were okay with the sleeve (For her Migraines) vs. solving the GERD with the bypass. I don't know why I didn't think about this, but I have a lap band right now, and I know I'm not allowed to have NSAIDS either. Thank you all again, I really appreciate it!

Hello everyone, first post here. I tend to type a lot, so I will try to be short. I'm 41 and I have had the band for almost 8 years. 293 surgery weight, got down to 220, back up to 290. I have had it unfilled for a long time. I am tired of the restriction (even unfilled) and it's not working with me so I want to get it out. I am thinking about the RNY but I have a lot of questions. I won't ask all of them now, but if there is a good FAQ or resource of common revision questions, I would be grateful for the link. My lap band failed me because I failed it. That's the honest truth. I don't like timing when I drink, and I eat a lot of pasta, so I drink as I eat. I'm positive I have a huge slip. I eat very little in the morning and lunch, and then eat a lot in the evening. I mean a lot, like as much as I did before the band. I'm willing to do the work - I know I need to change if I go with the RNY. I just need to know what to expect. I've been up and down a lot with weight since the 4th grade. 220 > 180 > 263 (Extreme exercising and dieting) > 163 > 293 (Lap band operation) > 220 > 290 (Now) I have anxiety quite bad. I have panic attacks every once and a while, and I take Luvox and Lamictal to help me through it. I have been rushed to the ER because I thought I was having a heart attack (That's the kind of panic attacks I have). I travel a lot for work, and I am involved in somewhat stressful situations while I work. When I'm working, I have to be "on it" and can't be sick (e.g. dumping syndrome) and sometimes I don't get enough time to eat a quality meal. Also, sometimes I work very long days...12-16 hours, once 30 hours. It isn't this way all the time, maybe twice per month, but I never know what kind of a cluster I'm walking into (I'm a IT consultant). I have to fly to these gigs, and even though I don't have a fear of flying, I have had a panic attack or two on the plane. I'm specifically worried about dumping syndrome while flying + panic attacks. I'm curious if anyone out there has the same situation as far as anxiety and travel, and so on. If you do, how has the band > RNY worked out for you? I think this is the most important thing for me. In regards to my many other questions, I'm going to do some searching on here to try and get a feeler for the answers. I meet with the Surgeon after Thanksgiving. I want to be better prepared than I am now. Thanks for taking the time to read or comment on this.

Thank you both for your reply. I suppose I watched too many you tube dumping episodes. BlackCatMatt, I think I probably made it sound a lot worse than it is. I actually love my job and welcome the challenges. It's only stressful because you do have other people who watch over your shoulder, but most people are pretty good about it -- they requested our help after all. The sometimes long days stink, but I almost always have the ability to push it an extra day and rearrange my travel. I'm glad to know about the protein drinks being ok. I consumed them a lot at the beginning of the lap band, and I still have them for breakfast and lunch. Other than candy/pastries/cookies/cake, are there foods that can no longer be consumed? I realize that food is what got me to where I am today, but I don't want to be stuck eating toast (or some other bland food) forever. Maybe the best question I should have asked is "What do you wish you would have known before you got the revision?" Thanks again