brandyII

tommaney, I guess due to my maturity level I am quite fond of some cartoons although I don't watch the Simpsons that much anymore couldn't help but recognize your fishy. I myself have changed my avatar a few times and one of my faves was Cartman dressed as the tooth fairy. You know how I like to live in fantasy land!!! Did I say that? Anywho you do deserve to be portrayed with a "third eye" as you are a very wise person and your wisdom is needed here. I tend to be a little too passionate sometimes and it can cloud my vision! Please start a fresh thread, this one is tainted!!! brandyII

tommaney, You are a very wise person and I do believe it may have something to do with your "third eye" but I'm not sure. I still feel the anger coming from this thread and it really wasn't meant to provoke but to discuss as you have kindly turned things around and were able to do so but for some reason there's anger still lurking but at least it wasn't written in "red" that tends to bother me more. It's one thing to wear bright colors like a red but it's another thing to write an angry message on a thread in red! I do believe what you say about looking people in the eye, strangers you're dealing with in a store or a work setting whatever and smiling. When you give you get! It's contagious and there are very few people who if given a chance to be treated with kindness and with a smile do not give it back in return. Your posture has a lot to do with it also. I kind of learned that when I was diagnosed with cervical arthritis and my PT was working with me on that. I do have bad posture and tend to be top heavy. I'm working on it. If you project confidence and self esteem or self worth, love etc... you'll start feeling it inside. Especially if it's something new to you and hasn't been used in a while. It's a good thing and thanks for stepping up to the plate with kindness and reason! brandyII

Ask someone to be your friend and then they'll probably ask you back!:rolleyes2:

Jachut, first of all I owe you an apology as I called the post I typed from my email setting your "original" post and I was wrong. That post was obviously edited because in the original one you referred to my way of thinking as "utter twaddle". I still have no idea what that means so maybe you should enlighten me. I'd appreciate it. I also took the time to respond to your first post, prior to your editing of it and prior to erasing the whole thing and replacing it with a whole "new" post. My passion remains although your "original post" does not! Not all of us have self esteem and some of it or most of it has been related to our weight problems growing up from childhood into adulthood. Sometimes we need to learn to overcome the negativity brought on through the years by others and ourselves and society in general. Becoming a healthy smaller size person is wonderful but does not necessary equal self esteem. If I were an animal I'd be a bear, warm and fuzzy on the outside but come near my den and my cubs and I'll attack. There are always a "few" that have fallen through the cracks and they may need a bit more attention in this world and a little more help along as they make their journey. Why attack a thread where we're discussing self esteem in a Mental Health support group which was started for those of us who have issues with weight relative to "mental health issues"? If you want to attack me personally do it through a PM I really don't care or do it on any thread I've posted in the Rants and Raves Section but there's got to be safe places where we can go and discuss without being attacked in such away, peace and thank you, brandyII:thumbup:

Sorry Jachut but I don't like responding to a post and then having you actually remove the whole thing and replace it with a totally new one so I had to type it up, hope I did you justice, brandyII.:smile:

This time I'll quote you since you edited out most of your original post:lol: What issue can't we face, the fact that we're not allowed to have self esteem because we are obese? I'm not sure what issue you're referring to. I agree we have or will or may contemplate getting the band and it was a major decision after years of failed dieting. This has nothing to do with having self esteem during our banding phase does it? Well since you've edited out your original post I can't share with others about your feelings of fat people but I'm sure I could locate them somewhere else if you'd like. You are making assumptions that we all overeat and we all under exercise and you have no idea!!! You have a very elementary point of view of obesity in my opinion and it's reflected in many of your posts. What behaviors are you speaking of that are not conducive to having "good self esteem"? I ate a piece of chocolate cake so I should have no self esteem? There is nothing wrong with people having self esteem now, do you think it comes automatically when you reach 125 pounds. It's something that people who are obese deserve as much as a 125 pound person. I just don't understand why you don't think people who are obese are allowed to have self esteem. brandyII.:confused_smile: Jachut, Ok, found your "original" post and made a copy of the one you edited out. Left in spelling errors in order to quote you precisely, good thing I did transcription for 7 years! "BrandyII I've tried so hard to be respectful of you, to understand your issues but honestly, you're the dizzy limit! Why cant we simply face this issue? Why do we always have to talk around it? Why cant we "go there"? Is it because we're all too delicate to hear it. Shhhhh, must be politically correct around people who are obese? Must we concoct stories about how its not their fault, its their genes, its the bad food in society, so lets all sue McDonalds. How on earth is that helpful? Did every single thin person out there have a perfect childhood, and nobody here did so THAT's the reason? Except me of course coz I havent been fat all my life so what would I know? I've got a novel idea? Maybe we all ATE too much. Maybe we did it because it was our choice to and it felt good so stuff the consequences. Maybe we all sat on our bums and didn't exercise because that was a bit much like hard work and afterall we have lives, jobs and kids so we dont have time right? And maybe, when we're too fat to exercise without injury, we can use that as an excuse and conveniently ignore the fact that we didn't do it when we could and that's how we got to this place? Maybe the thin people dont have lives, jobs and kids so they have the time to look after themselves. Because of course, nobody thin ever gets depression, ever had tragedies in their lives, ever got abused as childeren. So that's allright, because they're different, the fact that they look after themselves and we dont doesn't reflect badly on us does it? No.... wouldnt work. That requires taking responsibility for our own actions. Better not say it, might offend somebody. Much better to lie to ourselves instead, blame it on the metabolism, the fast food companies, our mother's insistence that we clean our pl This self destructive behaviour is not easy to break, there's many complex reasons why we do it and its exceptionally difficult when its due to behaviours learned in childhood. When you get too heavy to exercise comfortably, that's an even harder problem. Its not black and white, not at all, but there's no magic to it. Life makes it tough, and heck, I'm not saying I'm above that, I fell victim to it as well. Its insidious, it creeps in without you realising it and you think shit, where did THAT 50lb come from? I'm sorry you dont like my tell it like it is approach. I dont mean to offend anyone with it, not in the least, but honestly, if you cant even take the first step of admitting your behaviour needs to be changed, then sorry, but there's little point starting the journey. I know there's plenty on this board who will know exactly what I"m saying Not go there? Its the FIRST place we need to go! ************"

Jachut, I think you and I maybe polar opposites, we are in theory and probably geographically as well! It's okay I know I piss the heck out of you! I not familiar with the phrase "utter twaddle" but I'm assuming it's similar to what bulls do when they take a poop! This is a Mental Health and Lap Band Life thread, part of a Social Group and not the Rant and Raves Section, just thought I'd remind you of that in case you didn't know. We're all very complicated people and some people here are still considered "obese" so maybe all the "get off your fat ass" stuff maybe a bit humiliating and hurtful in our eyes. It is in mine so I'm sure I'm not alone in that feeling. Is it wrong to interact with others here who also may have low self esteems because of their weight issues to try to get beyond it and feel better about ourselves during our weight loss journeys? Are we only allowed to feel good about ourselves once we've gotten off our fat asses and stopped watching TV and eating bon bons and lost that extra weight? I'm sorry but that's screwed up and we do not need to feel like dirt just because of our size. And I find it insulting that someone would be that critical of fat people who once was fat herself admittedly. You may have disliked yourself but we do not have to hate ourselves just because we are fat!!! Does it bother you that I haven't lost enough weight yet by your standards but still have a lap band but am trying to survive my life day to day and am discussing various topics on this forum? Why does one person upset you so much? You seem to have taken a very militant way of losing weight for yourself and almost remind me of a Marine Corp Sergeant barking out commands at times. You still needed the lap band to use as your tool and it worked for you and your whole approach as you've stated has made you the woman you are today, a much thinner, stronger, healthier person and that's wonderful but don't assume your approach works for everyone! I've never said it was easy for your either, just that it has worked for you. I tend to believe that obesity is a bit more complicated than you wish to believe. You yourself know that a person your age, sex, weight who has never been overweight maybe able to take in more calories than you and not gain. I am not a doctor but I know that weight loss is more difficult for some people, (God I know it wasn't easy for you either!) and we cannot discount that fact! I don't know why you always turn this into a war between "THIN and FAT" with you. I'm sure if you need statistics I could go there on the benefits that thin people have always had over fat people but I think it's fairly obvious. Fat people deserve as much dignity and happiness as anyone else in our world. Do you disagree with that statement and personally do you actually hate fat people and find them disgusting because I'm getting that vibe from you? Do you really think the thin people in our society are getting the shaft??? Not every fat person is an addict. Some maybe but not all! And there are those who don't even believe food is an addictive source like alcohol or drugs are. There are many factors that can affect one's weight. Having obese parents, being obese from childhood to name a few, your situation is a bit different or am I wrong, you did say you didn't gain weight until you had children. I don't think you understand the minds of obese people and tend to be a bit too judgmental with us. Anyway I'm not trying to be your enemy but do resent the fact that you have to attack me when I'm trying to build up my self esteem and help others also. I don't believe we have to wait until we're thin to have it, sorry brandyII.:confused_smile:

My 2cents, I was on Meridia 7 years ago but went off my antidepressants in order for it to work which I did and it did, 25 pounds later which I suppose was a 10% loss which to me was great! Then a few years later prior to surgery I thought I'd try it self-pay because our insurance company would only pay for a one time one year deal but keep on my antidepressants and for some reason it didn't. I'm assuming it had to do with my antidepressants. I remember my endocrinologist said she had people on Meridia who also had gastric surgery and it was a while ago so I'm assuming it was an RNY so I don't know why you couldn't use it on the band. When I was first struggling with weight loss on the band I thought I'd try Alli since it was supposed to work like "dumping syndrome" in a way and I thought that was the aspect I was lacking with the band. The only thing Alli did, and I took a double dose as that is what the prescription would have been, was keep me regular as I had been constipated since the pre-op diet. I would try Meridia again if I thought it would work without having to go off my antidepressants but it's not worth it to me.:confused_smile:

I guess only slim people should work out! When I bought my treadmill I was probably around 230 and there was a weight limit of 250 so no one else in the family who is over 250 will use it which sucks. My husband picked it out so I don't know why he didn't check! Since I'm closer to 250 now I can feel the strain on the treadmill (poor baby) but I have had it for a few years. The first treadmill we got rid of but I had to replace the board that was under the belt at least twice. What about a recumbent bike? Do you like those? I don't like bikes myself and tend to screw up my hips on them but didn't know if you've tried them before and liked them, you're much younger!! brandyII.:confused_smile:

Wow what an insane beach!!!!! How old is this woman 20? I had a stepmonster when I was 17 and it was not fun. I lived with mine because my mother had died. At least your daughter has a normal mom to come home to! I could never be divorced because something like this would end up putting me in prison!! Vent all you like you know we'll support you here! brandyII:thumbup:

I know what you mean about your daughters. I bet there are some good books out there on the subject of mothers/daughters and weight as an issue. Even if you're a perfect mom, which you sound like you really strive to be, they going to catch stuff from kids at school or on TV. I read somewhere that weight was one of the most common subjects that people talk about. So how can it be avoided. Your kids are still young enough where you can teach them things and just know that they are beautiful and perfect in your eyes no matter what. I wish I could recommend a good book to you because I know there are tons out there. It's a little late for me, well maybe not! I bet there are others out there who have read those types of books and maybe one could suggest one. It's always comforting to have some sort of backup. Take care brandyII.:confused_smile:

I think he was just being funny and changing the name to Helen, not that there is a Helen or is there?

No one says you have to be comfortable in your fat suit, it's not easy and I don't know many who could. It's worth a try for me though. I also think it has a lot to do with my age. I think that after so many years of self loathing because of one aspect of my physical being, (my size is XX large) I have let it control my life. Every day I woke up thinking that I would start a new diet and almost every day I screwed it up and felt like sh*&&^t afterwards and it was a big waste of time. Lap banding did not do it for me either as I still had to diet. I am getting a bit closer to 50 and so things do change with your body so I don't expect it to react the way it did when I was 20. My body type may not be that of a thin person, it keeps telling me that by jumping back up every time I try to diet. If I had a magic wand I would make my body slim and tight and more bottom and a slimmer waist but I don't see that happening and I have to live my life as it is now and not wait until I've lost weight. My depression was there no matter what weight I was, it's a chemical imbalance in the brain but you can make it worse by thinking you're not worthy of anything and feeding your self bad thoughts constantly, it can't help. My aim is now to be healthy but it doesn't mean I'm going to shrink down to a size "perfect". Exercise is a good thing and it makes me feel good, endorphins and all and helps with diabetes. It also helps me feel stronger and probably helps with self esteem too. It's a complicated issue and not one that fits well with everyone. We all want to have self esteem but I guess it's in our head already we just have to let it be! brandyII.:confused_smile:

Jachut, I kind of had the feeling you weren't a tortured overweight child growing up, some how I got that impression from your posts. I know it's not easy being an overweight person at any age but growing up as a chubby child you bring a lot of baggage with you. I suppose on one hand now that you're at goal or close to it you feel safe to say those derogatory things about fat people or yourself when you were fat but most people probably still feel a bit uncomfortable hearing this from you. It actually bothers me more to hear you say that about your previous self. As someone who has been down to 125 pounds after being a fat child/teen and then gaining back over 100 pounds twice in her life I'd never go there. I don't know I guess we're all very different in that aspect. brandyII.

I like Helen too!!!:confused_smile:

I know it's hard not to measure your success on the scale but do you feel better that's the goal!

I don't have any physical limitations but can understand those of you that do. I guess I'm kind of built like my dad (a horse) so I'm big boned and have strong legs, although I have had varicose veins but got those from my mom who was thin and I was always crossing my legs! I am the same way about hating my picture taken and that's not my fault, it's how I viewed myself as I thought others were viewing me. Does that make sense? I want to get to a place where I can have my picture taken and not go over it with a fine tooth comb and look for every flaw, starting naturally with the double chin! We all have to do what we have to do to feel good about ourselves and in turn be the best moms, wifes, husbands, fathers, people etc....I don't think my children or grandchildren will not like me because of my weight as long as I can still be a loving parent, grandparent (whenever that happens). I never wanted to be the kind of mother that nitpicked over every thing my child ate as she would be fat or how she looked as she would not be attractive enough. I just always felt that didn't work for me and found it to be very insensitive and hurtful. I know that's a totally different thing sort of went off the topic there so forgive me, brandyII.:biggrin:

Are the chemically addicted elderly getting the treatment from the doctors that they need? Is this a new field?

You're right Leslie and I'm glad you're holding your head higher. I don't know much about eating disorders or body dysmorphia. I think that's why it's important for people when they lose weight and even when they get down to where they want to be to go to or continue with therapy. There are so many issues that come with size change and even though you lose 100 pounds and think it's great and life can now start, etc... you may not be ready for all that it holds. Or maybe your expectations are different and it can be a difficult thing to deal with and you want the best out of your life as you can get, take care brandyII:smile:

Angie the book I was reading that was dealing with family members etc... when it comes to "your weight" is called Bountiful Women by Bonnie Bernell and it was great, I loved it and made me feel good to read!!! I also am still finishing "Self Esteem Comes in All Sizes" by Carol Johnson, and both those books and similar ones you can order off of Amazon.com, I tried my local books stores, the major chains but non carry them in their "self help" or woman's issues sections. We deal with so much cr*p as overweight people in our society and getting it from our family, even if they do it in a "caring" way can be seen as an insult or a "I'm never good enough" type feeling and it's good to get over it and/or learn how to deal with them!! good luck brandyII:smile:

Leslie, I agree with everything you've said. We all have a lot of stuff in our heads that have screwed us up! When you're considered overweight in our society you're considered "bad" and whatever road we choose to go down if it is weight loss or just eating more healthy or exercising more we need to feel good about ourselves. I know I'm not popular and it's ok not to agree with me, especially in public, lol, but for you to love yourself and say I'm allowed to live my life as I want to no matter what size I am at the moment or if I'm at this size or even larger is your right! It's your life as I read somewhere, in the book I'm now finishing which was great by the way, "this is your life it is not a dress rehearsal until you are thin!". Well I didn't get that perfect but I think you get the gist. It's not alway easy to feel good in your skin but we tend to think everyone is judging us at everything we do. Are you judging everyone you see? Probably not so why should you think they are about you? Anyway if you choose to pursue some these self esteem issues read another good book besides "Self Esteem Comes in All Sizes" by Carol Johnson, I'm now finishing "Bountiful Women" by Bonnie Bernell. Naturally you can't find them in your local bookstore because being a fat happy woman is taboo in our society you have to go to Amazon.com, (non commercial) to order them. But I was taken aback at how so many large women and probably a lot larger than I am have lived their lives as happy successful people and I was always told/taught/whatever, that you can't have anything good in life unless you're thin! Sorry to get on the soap box and I know we all have lap bands but this is really an important topic for a lot of people, thanks and you're a sweetheart and it's ok that you don't agree with me all the time, most don't, brandyII:smile:

Beth you rock!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!brandyII:thumbup:

Although a lot of "fatabulous" groups do not tend to be "diet or WLS friendly" they do tend to be health friendly and that includes the body as well as the mind. There are many groups similar to the one you mentioned and also countless authors who have written on the subject. I've found a lot of what they say to be really enlightening and have made me feel really good about myself which hasn't happened in a lonnnnnng time! I do feel in some ways that is may not be as easy for a woman or man if they were much younger, say teen to young adult to be able to be self confident enough to not care about what others think of their bodies. The nature of the beast but wouldn't it be nice if they could. I find it is much easier as I've aged, 48 years of age to be exact, to be able to love my body as it is at my present weight. At 20 I was a bit too self absorbed and self conscious to not care what others thought of me including myself! I am one of those people who truly believed that life did not start until I was thin. I don't know if any of you have felt this way or not. I wasn't even worthy of enjoying life as a "plump" person. Of course the negative comments about my size that I've received from people seemed to stick in my mind and compliments flittered away................as they didn't matter. I look at my body now and see it as large and not as pleasant as one portrayed in a movie or a mag but I also know that if I were to lose 100 pounds right now it wouldn't be too purdy either!!:biggrin: At least I still have breast that go up a bit at 145 I'd have pancakes:biggrin: and a major skirt which I can thank my two babies for. I do know at my size I have to control my diabetes which I have been, take my thyroid meds, eat healthy and exercise, which I also have been doing but the mental grief I've put myself through prior to lap banding and even worse after lap banding has taken it's toll on me! I don't think I want to be a person who can only judge herself as good and worth while if she's is either losing weight or down to a socially acceptable size. Be that as it may, I still have a lap band in me and still have saline in that lap band and so have the right to be here like everyone else whether you choose to agree with me or berate me or choose not to agree with me and just look at this as another human being's opinion. I am a healthy person basically as long as I stop yo yo'ng and exercise and eat healthy foods. When I don't focus on dieting per se I don't tend to over indulge in sugary foods that tend to upset my diabetes. You can't take a St. Bernard and turn it into a greyhound! I know this is an upsetting topic for a lot of people and a lot of people will attack some of the comments I've made and I expect that now don't want it necessarily but expect it none the less. As a person who grew up chubby, lost a lot of weight a few times and has been a large size woman since her last baby in 1988 I know that feeling good in one's skin does not necessarily mean the skin has to be on a thin body as my self esteem was just as poor while thin as it was as plump, brandyII:smile:

Though I do understand your drive I still am shocked to hear (read) what you said about yourself. Were you overweight all your life or only after some time in your adult life just curious. I can't change how you feel/felt about yourself but the comment about what it said about you, lazy, unmotivated, careless, seems more society driven than anything else. It appears to be some major self-loathing and seems :biggrin: brandyII.