Lydiafree

What specifically do you consider to be "christian bashing" here on this thread? Is it criticism of the silliness and nonsense inherent in religion (ALL of them), or is it specific to the people who believe in it? I ask because "you're bashing christians" is something a vocal atheist will hear quite often, despite their merely criticizing the belief system. This is because religious people seem to view their belief system as a deeply personal thing. I haven't seen anyone actually bashing christians themselves, so I might have missed what you're referring to. I will always have an issue with the absurd nonsense people believe in. This does not mean I think the people themselves are unintelligent, etc. It means I think what they believe in is. That said, this: "But please try to understand, the way patty is is NOT the way true christians act" is the No True Scotsman Fallacy. Her interpretation of the confusing garbled nonsense that is religion is different from others, surely, but no less "true" than any others.

It's not just you. It's not only a gigantic paradox, it's utter dribbling nonsense. She's essentially saying that despite being omnipotent and omniscient, god doesn't control anything. Which makes him not just completely useless, but callously so.

Hmm. Possibly. I'm an atheist and I've never said "absolutely no". Those kind do exist (just happen to think that's premature judgment). perhaps you're right - maybe I am an agnostic (in the dictionary sense), because not only do I say "I don't know" but also say "I don't care". Since there's no evidence, since there's no proof that anything one says or does makes a whiff of difference to a possibly existing deity, it simply doesn't matter if a god exists. What matters is here and now and what you do with it.

OMG. I've seen that! Turned me off McD's forever.

All i meant is we're no different. Humans are not exclusively one thing or the other.

i don't see how that disagrees with what I said. Can/would you elaborate? Atheists don't believe in gods. I do deny one exists - not because I feel that I have the absolute knowledge to state it absolutely, but because there's no evidence to justify believing in one. theists tend to confuse "I don't believe in god" with "there absolutely is no god". As I said, talk to the most prominent atheists - Prof. Dawkins, Prof. Myers, etc - and they will say the same thing. They don't believe in god. They may even say it appears to be virtually impossible for there to be one. That's not the same as the immovable statement of "absolutely no". ETA: That said - who do you trust to define something? Those in it, or those outside it?

That's because you have a reason to continue to lie: faith simply can't withstand scrutiny. You have to tell yourself that atheists have faith so you can continue to pretend that everyone has faith. Oh, I see now - you're confusing faith with trust. You don't have faith your feet will hold you up. You trust that they will since you have experience and evidence that back that assumption up. You don't have faith that your car brakes will work, you trust that they will since they have before. If something had recently happened to the car, or if you'd neglected to get it inspected, you would not trust them to work. If this is the fickle nature of your faith, I appreciate you outlining it so clearly. Your desperate revision of language to suit your own agenda is noted, but ultimately pointless. It's transparent. This is another outright lie. Keeping a specific god out of PUBLIC schools is simply logic - not everyone has the same imaginary master, or one at all. Unless public schools are teaching kids that there is no god, then it's not atheistic. You're just mad that it's not forcing your version of your imaginary master on everyone. Tough. This is America - not Saudi Arabia. Students that prescribe to a specific religion are not barred from praying in school. Public schools simply can't force everyone to pray to their imaginary master. You would not be trying to push this blatantly anti-American baloney if this country were mostly Muslim and it was their prayers being pushed on your children. You seem to lack even a shred of empathy. I find that chilling. Your imaginary master shouldn't be included in anything public. Churches can do what they will, parents are entirely free to corrupt and stunt the minds of their children with their total nonsense. You simply can't force everyone to do as you do. I understand why you and your ilk hate such freedom so much, but please understand some of us like liberty and other American values.

We've been through this already on another thread. Read the Bible some time. god loves him some death and destruction.

not quite. Atheism is simply lacking a belief in gods. it's not "there absolute is NO god", it's "there's no evidence to believe in one". Talk to any of the most vocal atheists (Dawkins, Myers, etc) and they will tell you that if someone could present actual evidence of a god, they will listen. No one's come up with anything. Atheism is not a religion. To call it a religion is abusing the language for one's own agenda. ETA: That's not to say you won't ever meet someone calling themselves an atheist that says "there absolutely is no god". Of course they exist. But atheism isn't an organized thing; there's no one specific set of beliefs, no central control organization, no rituals, no dogma, etc. It's just a lack of belief in gods. THEY may absolutely believe that there isn't, but they don't speak for atheism. No one can - it's not a religion.

You're still assuming that a) there is a god and :thumbup: you've been lucky enough to pick the right one. As I said earlier, if you meet one other than the one you've chosen to be a slave to, you're screwed. And besides, if your god is one that would send good people to suffer in torment for all eternity in hell because they did exactly as he planned, exactly as he created them to do, and exactly as he knew they would do - he's one right bastard. Oh, so now we won't be forced to bow to him, we can't go wrong? Can't make up your mind, huh. it's a lose, lose. Waste your life on juvenile fantasies and bowing to an imaginary master for entirely self-serving reasons. Then, what? Sounds like an absolute tragedy. I'd rather spend my life enjoying it, helping all that I can and learning as much as my brain can hold. most of my free time is spent volunteering. I enjoy helping others with the modest means available to me. When I die, I want to know that I did the best I could to leave the world a better place than when I entered it, and will do my best to make that happen. To put it simply: two hands at work do infinitely more good than millions clasped in prayer, doing nothing.

The best example of this is the incredible advancements and inventions that came from the Middle East during the "middle ages". That section of the world was one of the more advanced societies on earth at the time. We still use some of their inventions. Then, religion took over and destroyed it all.

Got mine planned for this coming Friday. I'm being banded on the 29th. My sorority sisters are all getting together for my final big meal at Cheesecake Factory. I can't wait. I've been calling it my "divorce" dinner. Me and food are (finally!) splitting up!

*LOL* what a load of baloney!

Oh course. the bible says that rape, slavery, infanticide and genocide are all good things in god's eyes, therefore Ms. Green must obey that. She's a slave to an imaginary master. I have to admit though, I get a HUGE kick out of the "you will bow too" stuff. it's deeply amusing to know that she thinks all of us will be slaves with her.

And moreover, they use their religion - as Ms. Green does - to justify their ignorance, bigotry and complete lack of critical thinking skills. That's the best indictment against religion. It clearly is. It's substituting on addiction for another. Except this time it's hatred turned outward.

Incorrect. Treat of Tripoli, 1796, Article 11 "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion;" "The first treaty is cited as historical evidence in the modern day controversy over whether there was religious intent by the founders of the United States government. Article 11 of the first treaty has been interpreted as an official denial of a Christian basis for the U.S. government." Just because you want to pretend this is a Christianity-based nation do not make it true. Outright lie. Unless you believe bald is a hair color.Isn't there a commandment about being false witness? Tsk, tsk. We don't have "faith" there is no god, we simply don't believe in any gods since there's no evidence. And, one cannot get elected to political office unless one panders to believers. *LOL* you mean, the minority that is both the most mistrusted (even more so than those scary-scary Muslims), and denied even running for political office based on their non-belief is the RELIGION OF THE COUNTRY? My goodness, Ms. Green, I don't know what rock you've been hiding under but nothing you say bears any resemblance to reality. Not a single thing. Secular does not equal atheistic. Your persecution complex is typical of selfish bigotted religion, but it's not reality.

Prayer in school is legal. MANDATED prayer is not. You can't force everyone to pray to your imaginary friend just because you want to. This is not Saudi Arabia. On this point, I wholeheartedly agree. Advertising, et al, brainwashes us more than we know. I shudder to think what kids are learning families should look like and act like given what's considered "funny" on sitcoms. I shudder to think what we're doing to ourselves under this constant barrage of advertsizing - buy, buy buy!

((((rodriguezequal))))

I feel more and more sorry for you the more you speak. You clearly haven't a clue about science (no, scientists do not claim we are descended from apes), yet you trust those who's agenda is to profit from your ignorance. *headdesk* She doesn't trust people with actual knowledge unless they've read a 5,000 year old collection of contradictory, arbitraty, violent middle eastern folk tales - and interpret it in the same say she does, of course. That is downright terrifying ignorance. America is friggin' doomed if this is indicative of it's voting bloc.

Here's what Ms. Green's god says about abortion: Hosea 9:11-16 Numbers 5:11-21 Numbers 31:17 Hosea 13:16 2 Kings 15:16 Infanticide: Leviticus 20:9 Judges 11:30-40 Psalms 137:8-9 2 Kings 6:28-29 Deuteronomy 21:18-21 Judges 19:24-29 Child abuse: Genesis 22:9 & 10 I Kings 3:24-25 Proverbs 13:24, 19:18, 22:15, 23:13-14 & 29:15 (lots of ways to beat your children) Matthew 19:29 Mark 7:9 sounds totally anti-abortion, doesn't he.

No, you don't. You've made that abundantly clear throughout this thread. I understand why you need to lie to yourself that you do, but it should be clear that the only one who believes this lie is you. Of course there is. it's called abortion and it's completely legal, completely up to her and none of our business. And this is how you make it clear you don't give a rat's ass about the women. HER LIFE IS ALREADY ONGOING. But you, of course, don't care about her - only the "baby" that you now want her to be a slave to. A slave in a way that YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO BE. You freely admitted you would let another actually living person die because you are not under any obligation to save them. And yet, to you, other women do have that obligation. You had the freedom to make A CHOICE. but you want no other woman to have that freedom. You got ready "real fast" (though, of course, all we have is your word on that and frankly, I don't deem you an exactly reliable source of info), so that means all women must do as you did. Because Ms. green is the center of the universe and ruler of all the world, apparently. ANYONE who would devalue and diminish what a woman goes through when traumatized in favor of making her a slave is a misogynist. Dismissing the choice to have an abortion as choosing "convenience" is yet another example of bigotry toward women. You're a misogynist, Ms. Green. Plain and simple. I feel very sad and sorry for you.

You're trying to scare me into believing in your "loving" god with Pascal's Wager? *lol* Please. If your oh-so-loving god made me the way i am, planned for me to be this way, and is both omnipotent and omniscient then this is all his fault. if he then punishes me for doing exactly what he planned for me to do and knew I would do, he's one seriously sadistic bastard who, once again, is entirely unworthy of my attention. And btw the way, Ms. Green. Pascal's Wager (google it) only works if it's YOUR god you meet in the afterlife. If you meet, say, Allah instead - you're just as screwed as I am. *LOL*

Google fistula repair. This is painfully true. In societies where young girls are still married off to old men and have children very young, many, MANY young women suffer horrible health problems. Not that it matters to ms. Green. To her, women are inconsequential slaves to other people's needs. except her - she's special. She gets to have rights.

' Not if you care at all about women, which Ms. Green has proven over and over again that she does not.

Do you know how many atheists are made simply by people reading the bible? A lot. I, myself, among them. Reading - really reading - the book that all my life I'd been told was the divine word of God, the authority on morality, the place to go to find answers - made me an atheist. Or, to be more clear, started me down the path to atheism. No god who behaves and demands as the bible god does is worthy of my worship and devotion.