ReadySteadyGo

Most people are surprised to know that the Costitution does not contain the words "Separation of Church and State". So, what's its origin? At the time of the constitution, many citizens were concerned that one particular christian denomination would become the official denomination of the USA. The Danbury Baptists sent a letter to President Jefferson addressing their concerns.(Althought the states encouraged Christianity, they would not allow an exclusive state-sponsored denomination.) To calm thier fears, he replied in a letter to them:

"I contemplate with solemn reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between church and state."

Why did he select this particular phrase to reassure them?

Recall that he was adressing a group of Baptists, a denomination of which he was not a member. In writing to them, he sought to establish a common ground necessary between an author and the group he was adressing. By using the "wall of separation" he was actually borrowing the words of the Baptist's own prominent ministers; Roger Williams. For William's words had been:

"When they have opened the gap in the hedge or wall of separation between the garden of the church and the wilderness of the world, God hath ever broke down the wall itself...And therefore if he will ever please restore his garden and paradise again, it must of necessity be walled in peculiarly unto himself from the world..."

According to Williams,the "wall of separation" was to protect the "garden of the church" from the "wilderness of the world". That 'wall' was originally introduced as, and understood to be a one-directional wall protecting the church from government. This was also Jefferson's understanding, as conveyed through statements he made concerning the First Amendment (statements now ignored by the court)

Kentucky Resolutions of 1798: No power over the freedom of religion is delegated to the United States by the constitution.

Second Inaugural address: In matters of religion I have considered that its free exercize is placed by the Constitution independent of the powers of the Federal Government.

A letter to Samuel Miller: "I consider the government of the US as prohibited by the Constitution from intermeddling with religious institutions, their doctrines, discipline, or exercises. This results not only from the provision that no law shall be made respecting the establishment or free exercise of religion, but from that also which reserves to the States the powers not delegated to the US. (10th Amendment) Certainly, no power to prescribe any religious exercise, or to assume authority in religious discipline, has been delegated to the General Government. It must then rest with the States, as far as it can be in any human authority."

Contrary to Jefferson's explanation of the intent, such power no longer rests with the states. In 1947, in Everson v. Board of Educ., the court reversed 150 years of established legal practice under the Constitution and decided that it did have the right to rule on an individual state's decisions regarding religious practice. Prior to that reversal, the courts had left the decisions as Jefferson and all other Founding Fathers had planned it-"resting with the states." State legislatures have been passing laws since the 1600's allowing the free exercise of religious practices in schools and public affairs: voluntary prayer, bible reading, the use of the 10 commandments, etc. These laws had been enacted with the "concent of the governed" and through representatives elected "of the people, by the people and for the people."

Jefferson's words to the Baptist Association were soon forgotten since the rumor of a certain denomination becoming 'the official US church" never became fact. The letter remained in obscurity until 76 years later when it appeared in a case of Reynolds v. United States. The court did not use the words form the letter to separate church and state, but used them in an opposite manner. In that case, Mormans claimed that the first amendment's "free exercise of religion" promise and the "separation of church and state" principle should keep the state out of their 'religious' exercise of polygamy. Using the letter, the court showed that while the government was not free to interfere with opinions on religion, which is what frequently distinguishes between one denomination and another, it was responsible to enforce civil laws oaccording to general Christian denominational differences, not to basic christian principles. On that basis, they ruled polygamy was a violation of the Constitution because it was a violation of basic Christian principles. 70 years after that case, in the 1947 Everson case, the court took 8 words out of Jefferson's letter (A wall of separation of church and state) and adopted that phrase as its new battlecry. It announced for the first time the new meaning of separation of church and state- a separation of basic religious principles from the public arenas. The court did not bother to present the context of Jeffersons phrase and how it had been originally used, nor revealed that it had been applied in an opposite manner in previous Supreme court cases. Those 8 words, now taken out of context, concisely articulated the court's plan to divorce Christianity from public affairs. There is no other instance in american history where the words spoken by an individual becomes the law of the land. His remark carries more weight in judicial circles than does the writing of any other founder. Doesn't it seem unreasonable that the Justices bypass all the other founding Fathers in order to find some words with which they could agree? And even then, they selected someone who was not a part of the convention that formed the Constitutional proceedings or was even in the nation at the time. And on top of that, they used his words in a manner in which he would not have approved! George Washington had much to say about the relationship of christianity to schools and government. Why doesn't the court quote him? The simple answer is that the Justices have found in Jeffersons 8 words what they want the First Amendment to say, and not what our Founding Fathers framed it to say, and not even what Jefferson understood it to say.

There is no 'wall of separation' in the Constitution, unless it is a wall intended by the Founding Fathers to keep Government out of the church. Jefferson's words have been twisted to mean the opposite; now, the state must be "protected" from the church!

There is nothing so absurd but if you repeat it often enough people will believe it. It is amazing what continually hearing about separation of church and state can do to a nation!!!!

Maybe the seperation of church and state got popular after the witch hunts?

Seperation of church and state protects christianity too, you know. What if the state decided that the religion we should all practice is muslim? Seperation of church and state protects your right to your religion and my right to get the hell away it.

I suck with the keeping up with things. Dang it.

It's good to see you guys are all doing okay tskelli, I hope you get your family problems worked out.

I am moving to texas next thursday. I haven't seen Marcie for a month so I've been feeling really low.

I told Marcie that nothing that taste good is allowed in the house anymore cause I gotta get something working with this band.

I've taken up photography.

I love you guys. I promise to try to visit more often.

This was almost as if I wrote it myself (with the exception of having the forums before surgery) I too am a slow loser. I was fatter, I'm still fat and I have a ways to go as well and my surgeon is a great person but has told me he won't give me anymore fills and I'm not at my sweet spot at all. I never had the option of a nutritionist, it was just me my band and the world. This place provided me with a lot of very great support and information as a new bandster and I am thankful for LBT and the support and people.

So I agree, thank you.

Thank you, and good luck with everything. The nutritionalist didn't tell me anything I didn't know already, and she really did make me feel like scum.

Nothing is perfect, but it's good to have a support system like lbt to come too. I'm guilty of only coming here during my low times, though. I should break that habit.

I am fat. I was fatter. I'm still fat. Even with this surgery and all my tears I might always be fat. I'm working on it.

My parents, society, and my Doctors pushed me into this surgery and I went into it kind of blind. My Doctor, well he didn't tell me anything but how easy this will be. My nutritionist talked to me like I was garbage so I never went back.

Everything constructive I have learned here, from helpful people. Any encouragement in my newbie period, well I got it here. Thank you for starting this website Alex. Otherwise I might have had to have another surgery to replace the damage I had done with my body not knowing anything like I did when I went into this. I only wish I had found it earlier before I had the surgery so I would have been prepared.

Moderators, thank you for trying to keep the cruelty to a minimum. I know it can be a thankless job.

I still need support. I'm a slow loser...if I lose at all and I really dont. I don't come here as much as I do but when I do I am usually feeling really low. Thank you Lapbandtalk for being here when I need you.

If he doesn't own the place, report him, if he does...

Couldn't you tell your husband he creeps you out or something? Maybe find your daughter a different place to take lessons?

Could you kick him in the balls?

Hi everyone :biggrin: I started ww a few days ago. My weigh in days are thursdays.

I'm glad that Irene told me about this thread. I've had really bad problems working with my band and maybe this will help.

Nice to meet you all

I miss Taps too! She's my buddy, and she is always so positive. I heart her.

This is my first week on ww. When is your weigh in day?

yep here I am. :thumbup:

How is everyones day going?

Hi Macro. Nice to have you.

I'm so glad you are feeling better marathinner, that sounds very tramatic! I missed you. I tend to dissapear too.

We can both try to fix that.

Actually started to join, didn't do much with it, but joined yesterday online.

I can't go to meetings, but I can keep track of it online.

<3 It was only 12 dollars a month online. I can do that.

Wanna be my weight loss buddy?

Okay, Okay. I'm starting over. AGAIN. We are moving to San antonio, I'm moving Oct 1st. I am exercising everyday for even if it is only five minutes, I am doing it.

I'm so sick of not losing weight. I haven't really lost any since the initial weight loss in the beginning.

So here I am. Starting over. Again.

So I have to find a fill Dr. in San antonio.

Maybe I will like this one better anyway.

Helloo. Marcie had her interview yesterday and it went really well, She's flying to san antonio on the 13th to give a thirty minute speech as her final interview.

So I think this is happening.

even visiting here I feel inspired, though I know this isn't the right time to try to get in any routine, but I have started paying attention to what I put in my mouth.

reading through this thread, I see I've missed alot, sorry about that.

You will get back on track Ezma. I missed you.

Hi, VV's. I missed you. I slipped away again. I have a LOT going on right now, except the scale. Whenever I slip away I always forget to follow the lap band rules, but here I am. I am still a different person than I was before lapband. More active, happier, I'm just not as thin as I thought I would be. I'll try to correct that with you guys now. Thanks for checking in on me. Sorry I was gone so long, taps.

It looks like I have a lot of catching up to do. I'm in school, I have been working my butt off, and have no free time. I try to do as much as possible on the internet, but summer classes have been really hard, but I just took my mid-terms and I am currently sporting a 4.0 for the semester.

Marcie has a huge interview Thursday, which will have her doubling her salary and both of us Moving to San Antonio, so keep your fingers crossed for me.

I bought a used treadmill, but as of yet have had almost no time to use it. That is both partly true, and partly a big fat excuse :tongue2:

I missed you all. I will try to get through the thread and catch what is going on, but you guys could always give me the highlights.

So I have to cover for another employee here so I'm coming in late and working until 8 pm.

The good thing is I had time to work out this morning.

When I got to work I emailed the owner of the elliptical that I wanted to purchase it, but she emailed me back and said she alreaady sold it....sooo gym it is.

Now I have to decide if I want to join the gym by my house. It's pretty pricey unless you want to sign a two year contract and I'm not sure I will be here in two years so now I dont know what to do. I do NOT want to sign a contract, I just want to work out, dang it!

LilMiss- You do whats right for you girl. If you feel like you need a change in your life and your job is negative, then I wish you nothing but good luck in finding one that fits your sparkling personality better.

Jaime- Did you use your elliptical often when you had it? I'm trying to decide between the elliptical or joining the 24 hour fitness by my house. IT's 24 a month. I have the wii fit at home, and I like it, but sometimes I just want to watch tv and work out. When I tried to do the elliptical at the gym it KILLED me, I couldn't even do five minutes, but I know it burns a lot more calories and you get a more complete workout than with the treadmill.

Tapshoes, it sounds like your fill is doing great things for you. I've been trying to pay attention to my own full signals. I cancelled my fill because I really think I don't need one, when I don't drink while I eat, I eat very little. I just have to NOT drink while I eat. I'm doing better, not perfect, but better.

My weigh day is thursday.

I am trying to get an elliptical. They have a combo elliptical/ exercise bike for 150 on craigslist. I think that would be awesome to have.

I lost three pounds this week :tt1:

Wantit- It is pretty rough. I wasn't expecting it, but it does remind me that the band works when I work it.

Jumping jacks are fun, but I can't do 50, more like 25.

shiny, I am very impressed with your dedication.

Tapshoes- I am glad it happened too, It was just such a surprise. Why would it happen now? Weird.

Jaime, I'm glad to hear that having your gallbladder removed has helped you. Gallbladders being removed is common for people who have lost a lot of weight so quickly. Take care of yourself.

This morning I had a band experience. I have always had a problem with restriction... I've just never felt it after the first month of surgery. Not really. Maybe a few days after my fills, but they never lasted.

This morning I made myself a nutri-grain waffle. I always toast them pretty hard because I like them crunchy.

Now as most of you know I have a problem with drinking while Im eating, but I have been working hard on stoping that. It's VERY against the rules and for good reasons...but I couldn't seem to stop.

I've been doing good for a few weeks, but honestly I can still eat whatever I want, but I make myself stop before I get too full.

As I was eating my waffle I got a pain in my chest like it was stuck there. It hurt pretty bad so I gave the rest to my dog and starting walking around. Then I started gagging and I ran to the bathroom. I suppose what happened is I "slimed" though I had NEVER done that before. EVER. It was disgusting. I did PB once or twice, but ew.

Anyway, turns out I do have a band in there. I thought it had melting away seven months ago.

It is really easy for me to keep up with my friends on a blog. I have one I update pretty regularly.

tarainthecage.blogspot.com Many people on LBT have blogs at blogger.

I enjoy it.

But I like the thread too, I will keep checking it thanks for sharing

My new resolution. only eating out once a month.

Thats doable. I can do it.

I had a lot of fun in New Orleans. I saw a long lost friend I haven't seen in years working at the Cafe Du Mondo.

I didn't diet, but I walked around five or six miles a day so I think it made up for it.

I still gained a pound, but I drug my gazelle out of the closet, all that walking felt really good so I am setting it up in front of the TV. I figure one movie = 1.5 hrs of exercise right? Thats good for me.

Oh and hello, my lovely lady VVs.

And where is Esme? Does anyone know if she is okay?