Jean McMillan

Well, I know I promised earlier to post a list of satiety signals this afternoon or evening, but I don't think I'll be able to do that along with everything else I've got going on today (it's amazing how losing weight can fill your days up with fun and interesting things that have nothing to do with food!). So I will do my best to get that list out tomorrow.

WOW! What I am gathering from this is it's "A MIND THING"!

Six months in and 1 # a week down...my Dr. is happy with my loss but I seem not to be quiet as happy.

THANK You each for you replies and tips...

I will start to listen to my body and try the 1 cup of food... Maybe I am to occupied with what's on my plate and try to finish it all regardless of how long it takes or how many bites its takes. aka-Mindless eating!!?!?!? YIKES!

A new year and a new attempt to get a real handle on this!

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Does your band seem different on diffefrent days? Somedays when the weather is rainy my band seems tighter???

IS this all in my head also?

Yes. In a sense, it's all in your head. Or most of it. But a lot of it is autonomic (like breathing, heart beating, blood circulating, etc.) and not within your conscious control. The (extremely simplified) way the band works is to press against the walls of the stomach fundus (the curved upper part), thereby activating the vagus nerve that passes through that area. The vagus nerve carries satiety messages (as well as a lot of other messages) to the brain. Your physical hunger ceases and your brain broadcasts that it's time to stop eating, via various stop signals. Your conscious job is to pay attention, notice those signals, and stop eating when they happen. That can be tricky because some of those signals seem to have nothing to do with hunger or eating. My nose used to run when it was time for me to stop eating. Weird, huh?

And yes, your sense of "restriction" can vary from one day to the next. Or when the weather changes. For example, I used to feel a lot tighter in the morning than in the evening.

I have to run now but will post a separate thread about satiety signals later today.

Jean

Edited to Add: also, the band's proximity to the diaphragm can trigger satiety signals, like a hiccup.

I just had another thought, about something that might help you find your very own Green Zone. One of the biggest jobs for any WLS patient, no matter what surgical procedure they have, is learning how to recognize satiety. That's something I managed to completely ignore for 54 years before my band surgery, mainly because I was eating for a lot of reasons that had nothing to do with physical hunger, good nutrition, health, or any of that good stuff.

Satiety is the feeling of having eaten enough food for now. For someone like me who had a gaping void inside that no amount of food could ever fill, learning to recognize satiety wasn't just hard - it was scary. Deprivation was one of my worst fears. I think that fear exists to some extent in every living creature. If we don't eat, we eventually die - every single one of us. A morbidly obese, middle-class, middle-aged woman with a job and a home and loving friends and family is not likely to starve to death, but that fear haunted me for a long time.

Fortunately, I made lots of friends on online WLS sites like Bariatricpal who helped me by sharing their own satiety signals. The work of paying attention to and heeding those signals was all up to me. I got better at it as time went on. My conscious behavior and the effect of more saline in my band helped a great deal. Now that my beloved band is gone, that work is much harder, but like it or not, it's my job for life.

Other members have shared some of their "stop eating" signals on this thread, but please don't kick yourself (or blame your band) if all those signals don't happen to you on the magical, mythical day that your band is filled to an optimal level. Even if and when that day arrives, those signals and that optimal fill level are probably going to change. One of the best - and hardest to handle - consequences of my WLS has been learning to pay attention to and take good care of my body. It's the only one I have, and I plan to make it last a long, long time.

Jean

P.S. - I wrote an article about recognizing satiety here: http://www.bariatricpal.com/page/articles.html/_/support/post-op-support/how-much-food-is-enough-r96

The "real" Green Zone signs vary from one person to the next, and vary in one person from one day to the next. Every creature on earth, even of the same species (such as human), is unique - in anatomy, genetic inheritance, environmental influences, you name it. We're all influenced by weather; hydration; illness; stress; time of day; time of month; medications; food choices; a host of internal, autonomic processes; and more. I wrote an article about the Green Zone here:

http://www.bariatricpal.com/page/articles.html/_/support/post-op-support/get-into-the-green-zone-r97

Keep in mind that average weight loss with the band is 1-2 pounds a week. In 6 years, I haven't met a single WLS patient who lost a steady 1 or 2 or 1.5 or whatever pounds a week, for many of the reasons mentioned above. My own weight loss was very uneven - something like: - 1, -.5, + 1.5, -2, -.25, -1, + .5, and so on. As long as the overall trend is downward, that counts as success in my book (speaking of which, I highly recommend the bandster's Bible, Bandwagon). Many of us lose more quickly at the beginning of our WLS journey and more slowly as we approach our goal weight. Men tend to lose more quickly than women because they have greater muscle mass. Even when you get to your goal weight, you're not likely to see that exact same weight on the scale every day for the rest of your life.For example: a few days ago, I gained 2.5 lbs overnight. Why? Because I'd been eating high-sodium stuff for a few days. That's a red flag, not a cause for panic. After a few days of making better food choices, I know that 2.5 lbs will go away.

Jean

It interests me when a member posts something potentially controversial or inflammatory and then states that he/she "won't be reading the negatives anyway." This is like setting a pot of Soup on a stove burner on a high setting, then leaving the pot to boil over and burn someone, while announcing that "It's too hot in the kitchen so I'm getting out of it."

Although the OP (original poster) states that this thread is directed at "many who seek accurate information", 99.9% of the thread appears to be directed at a single, unnamed individual. If the OP has a problem with that individual, I believe it should be dealt with in a private conversation with that individual. In my own not-so-humble opinion, making a personal problem the topic of a public discussion that invites the victim to defend him/herself, and others to join the mob mentality the thread fosters, is the passive-aggressive antithesis of the "best wishes" the OP expresses at the close of the thread.

I will now close the kitchen door and depart this thread with the hope that the fire burns itself out so we can all go back to helping and supporting other.

Jean

This exchange is an excellent illustration of why combining different WLS forums into a single site was not a good idea...IMHO.

Sojourner, I don't disagree with what you've said here, but I do want to comment on the above statement, which I do understand is your personal opinion. For 6.5 years, I've belonged to another WLS site that includes forums for different WLS procedures, where heated exchanges like the one on this thread happen from time to time, but I don't think combining all the various forums on Bariatricpal will significantly increase the frequency of online arguments, because I've also observed quite a few people who hop from one site to another, and one forum to another and back again, waving whatever banner is important to the at the moment. Tis the nature of the beast.

I'm almost a techno-phobe, so if it's easy for me to navigate the Internet, surely it's even easier for the rest of the online world?

If nothing else on this thread is certain, it's clear that you didn't intend to start a bonfire. Unfortunately, that kind of thing happens in online forums from time to time - not just on bariatric sites, but on sites devoted to topics as varied as books, cooking, and exercise. You've gotten some useful, supportive replies to this thread, so it was worth posting it. I hope your future bariatricpal conversations are less contentious!

As I do appreciate all of your knowledge it was not my intention to start a heated debate. I think regardless of which wls I choose or anyone for that matter we should be supportive of one another. That's what these forums are all about right? All we can do in life is try and make the best decisions for ourselves.

It sure sounds like your body is trying to get rid of your port, and if it also goes to work on your band, your complications will get even worse. Like Carolinagirl, my life is more important than my weight loss surgery, and I'd go to the emergency room and call my bariatric surgeon immediately.

Please don't think that your only choices are to live skinny with open abdominal wounds or live fat without your port and/or band. Once the port complications are dealt with, you may be able to revise to a different bariatric surgery procedure that doesn't involve implants.

Good luck!

Jean

It is confusing, isn't it? And very hard to study and analyze in a scientific manner, so we may never have an answer to the eternal question of: is it me or my WLS? Your ability to eat less even of "bad" foods is probably due to a combination of your band's effects on your appetite and satiety and new eating habits developed over time following your band surgery. I think some of the eating habits I acquired in 5 years with my band did survive, but since my sleeve surgery, my conscious behavior while eating seems to have changed. For example, with my band, I would suddenly lose interest in finishing whatever food I'd been eating (even a "bad" one). In fact, that food would often seem repulsive when I'd been enjoying it just moments before. And on the whole, food was less appealing to me, so I thought about it, anticipated, and enjoyed it less. That's all history for me now.

WLS of various types has been done for decades now, but even the best bariatric medical professionals are still learning how each procedure works. The human body is very complicated and as I understand it, nothing in the body works entirely independently. Conscious and/or exterior actions affect unconscious, interior, autonomic functions, and vice versa. The nervous system, immune system, digestive system, circulatory system, endocrine system and so on may be able to function independently in some ways, but that doesn't mean each system receives no messages, input or effects at all from the other systems.

Then a surgeon opens up that complicated human body, fiddles with the innards, closes up it up (perhaps even leaving a "foreign object" like a gastric band behind), and as a result, all of the bodily processes we take for granted are thrown into a tizzy. Some of the tizzy is beneficial, some is not, some is neutral. And since every human being is unique, it's impossible to predict how that surgery (be it dental, bariatric, cardiac, etc.) will affect the patient in the short or long term.

I don't think it's a bad thing to have both WLS and conscious behavior helping to manage our weight, and after 5+ years on WLS forums, it's my opinion that believing that WLS can and will do all the work in weight loss and management is all too likely to lead to frustration and failure.

Well I am still confused then because like B-52 I eat what I want but thanks to the band I have more control. I just came off a two week vacation and I had all the things I wanted just no where near the volume when I was preop. I had Cookies, candy heck I even had french fries while in NY playing tourist. So...is it my band or is it will power? Is it both? I am not kidding when I say my head hunger is practically gone. I actually lost weight for the first time in my life during the holidays. I've lost 13lbs since Thanksgiving! That is not bragging...I'm seriously confused.

I've had 2 WLS procedures (the band and the sleeve) and neither of them have cured my obesity or any of the emotional stuff that contributed to my obesity. I'm 18 pounds below my goal weight thanks to WLS, but I still experience stress and temptation during the holidays - in fact, all year 'round - because unlike B52, I'm a human being.

While it's true that the sleeve is easier for some because it doesn't require adjustments (fills and unfills, I don't agree that it provides a better quality of life post-op. I revised from band to sleeve in August 2012 and in the 16 months since then have experienced complications that required more tests, procedures, treatments, time off work, and general misery than I ever experienced in 5 years with my band or even for decades before that. I'm happy with my weight loss, of course, but nothing else about my sleeve is easy to live with on a daily basis.

I wrote in some detail about my band-sleeve experience in a blog post here: http://jean-onthebandwagon.blogspot.com/2013/03/a-lot-of-people-especially-those.html

One of the unexpected (to me) aspects of sleeve gastrectomy is that, contrary to popular opinion, it does indeed cause the micro- and macro-nutrient malabsorption that made me decide against RNY. So I'm dealing with a variety of Vitamin and mineral deficiencies, supplements to compensate for all that, and unintentional weight loss. I'm 18 pounds below my goal weight and still losing.

I don't dwell on my dissatisfaction with my sleeve because there's really nothing I can do about it. Most of my stomach is gone forever, so all I can do for the rest of my life is make the best of the situation.

Quality of life is a very individual thing, hard to quantify, and unless the members of whatever committee you met with have had weight loss surgery, I doubt they're able to give you any accurate reasoning, data or scientific evidence to back up their claim that the sleeve offers a better quality of life. If you want anecdotal evidence about that, I suggest that you visit the sleeve forum. And keep in mind that band-to-sleeve revision members who post there may be delighted with their improved quality of life because their band side effects and complications were so awful that just removing their bands was a relief, not because the sleeve is superior to the band.

The bottom line is that there is no such thing as a perfect, risk-free, easy success weight loss surgery. All you can do is do your research, pick the procedure that feels right to you, and move on.

I'll close this message now because I'm tired, don't feel well, and have too much to do today, including picking up a prescription for injectable B12 and syringes and making an appointment with my gastro-enterologist about starting Iron infusions to deal with my post-sleeve anemia.

Jean

You’re tired of your old body – the fat one that’s caused you so many problems – but are you ready to move into a new one?

The idea for this article came to me in a dream.

It was what I call an anxiety dream, in which I’m trying to accomplish something important but encounter obstacles everywhere I turn. That’s kind of a parable of life itself, isn’t it? When I wake from a dream like that, I feel frustrated because I didn’t get to finish my dream task, but at the same time I’m relieved to be released from the endless struggle.

So in this particular dream, I was moving into a new, multi-story house, kind of like the old tenement buildings you see in dying New England mill towns. It was essential that I quickly locate and organize all my belongings so that I could use them to start an urgent and important project. Every time I carried something into another room to put it away, I would find other people there, already moving my stuff, wreaking havoc on my carefully ordered household. When I went back outside for another load of stuff, more people would be poking through it as if it was so much garbage left out to be collected and buried at the dump. These interfering people ignored my pleas to leave my things alone. For every armful I took into the house, they carried out ten.

Then my husband started a load of wash in the laundry room a few feet away from the bedroom, and the sound of the washer’s spin cycle woke me up. Thank God.

I trudged off to the bathroom, pondering the meaning of the dream. I haven’t moved into a house for 14 years, so why was I having a dream about moving house? As I made the bed and thought more about the dream (which didn’t want to leave my head just then), I suddenly knew what it was about.

My big moving project for the past 6 years hasn’t involved moving into a new house. It’s involved moving into a new body. Like any move into the unknown, it’s been both exciting and scary. I no longer have a jumbo, custom-built pantry to hold 50+ years’ worth of bad habits and warped beliefs about myself. I keep forgetting where I’ve put things, and have sabotaged my own efforts numerous times. At times, circumstances beyond my control have put my new “home” into disarray, but I’ve kept working at it, carrying things in, bringing things out, rearranging things…a seemingly endless task.

I think I’m pretty much settled now. I watch elderly people who have to work so hard to accomplish the simplest tasks – sit down, get up, button a shirt, open a jar – and remember my mom talking about the way her body had betrayed her as she aged. I suppose that could happen to me sooner or later. But for right now, I’m in a good place: my new body - the home I carry with me everywhere.

As you continue on your weight loss journey, please take good care of your body. You may not like it much now, but it’s your home. Your very own home. As it changes, you will have to learn its new floor plan. When you go to a closet to fetch a size 16 dress and find only size 18’s, you may feel so disoriented that you forget the size 20, 22 & 24’s you took to the Goodwill Store last week. As you pass through the front hallway of this new home and see yourself in the mirror, the person you see might look like a complete stranger. What’s she doing there? She’s fat, I’m not, so why is her reflection all I can see? Where did this mirror come from, anyway, the funhouse at a circus?

Don’t give up. One day you’ll have all the curtains hung, the walls painted, the furniture arranged, a fire burning in the fireplace, and you’ll think, “I’m so glad to be home.”

A WLS friend of mine, Tom B., posted a great article on his blog yesterday: 10 Cold Hard Facts about Weight Loss Surgery. I highly recommend reading the article no matter where you are in your WLS journey. Tom states those 10 facts quite plainly, but not in an accusatory manner - more like a good friend who's answering you honestly when you've asked, "What's it really like?"

Here's a link to the article:

http://beariatric.com/2013/12/16/10-cold-hard-facts-about-weight-loss-surgery/

Jean

Kiwiladydee,

I have fibro also. When researching the Obesity-Fibro article, I spoke to a doctor who told me (in exact terms that I don't remember now) that weight loss releases toxins into your system - plus goodness knows what other toxins we're exposed to every single day in the modern world.

Is the rash on your face bilateral (both sides) and shaped something like a large butterfly? That could be a sign of lupus erythematosus, along with your fatigue, pain, etc. Since lupus is an autoimmune disorder, it seems like it could be a first cousin to fibro. I was diagnosed with discoid lupus some 20 years ago. It rarely bothers me now, but I have to wonder if and how my obesity, fibro, and lupus are interconnected.

Jean

Yup. Nine dogs. Or rather, nine who come into the house, and three who are outside dogs (who have comfy condos in our garage), for a total of twelve. And three cats. All of those critters are rescues. We live out in the country where people discard puppies and kittens like so much garbage, and we don't have the heart to let them starve.

Naomi,

I know you mean well, but I think you've missed a few important pieces of data here.

1. The chief finding of the study you mentioned was that successful bandsters in Australia do drink (but not guzzle) while eating. Those findings did not explain why that's so. The "why" part is conjecture on the part of the study's authors. Also, I question their claim that "There is no pouch or small stomach above the band. There should never be food sitting there waiting." I agree with the last part of that ("There should never be food sitting there waiting") but I disagree with the first part and have no idea where they came up with the idea that there's no pouch or small stomach above the band. Yes, the band has been used in Australia a lot longer in the USA, but that statement completely contradicts everything I've read in Allergan and J&J literature and surgeon resource sites. And I have watched my own upper GI tract during several upper GI studies, and there was indeed a small stomach pouch above my band every single time, no matter what else was going on in there (or not) at the same time. The radiologist pointed it out to me on every occasion, so I wasn't misreading the images. And by the way, that pouch was a normal finding, not an anomaly.

2. According to American bariatric surgeons I've talked to or whose seminars I've attended or whose articles I've read, NO bariatric surgery patient should drink while eating. In fact, at a bariatric conference 2 years ago, I heard that stated by 3 different surgeons who were giving 3 speeches. All of them stated that failure to separate consumption of solids and liquids is the most common cause of WLS "failure" (that is, no or disappointing weight loss, or weight regain). Since many LBT/Bariatric Pal members live in the USA and have surgeons in the USA, I think it behooves us to follow the instructions of our American doctors. Or, go to Australia for surgery and every fill and unfill and all aftercare. Hey, if I had the money to do that, it might even be fun to travel there, but it would sure disrupt the rest of my life. But hey, a mere $8,000 per trip (not counting hotels, meals, taxis, surgeon's fees, etc.) would be nothing for us rich Americans, right?

3. Every bariatric surgeon I've encountered (in person, on the telephone, online) has stated that the band does not and should not control the movement of food and liquids from the esophagus into the stomach. If the band is far enough up to do that, it has slipped or the surgeon who placed it was incompetent. What controls the movement of food and liquid from the esophagus into the upper stomach (the fundus) is a sphincter at the base of the esophagus where it joins to the stomach. Continually eating in a way that causes food to be stored in the esophagus is asking for trouble. It can cause serious and permanent damage to the esophagus and the esophageal sphincter.

3. No bandster should ever, ever eat in a way, with or without liquids, that allows food to sit in the esophagus for more than maybe 30 seconds. The esophagus is not meant to store food for any period of time. It's designed to move food up or down (preferably down) only. If food is sitting in the esophagus, any liquid consumed after that is probably going to come back up rather than flushing through the stoma, because at that point the upper stomach pouch and the stoma created by the band are probably already jammed up with food. PB's (or regurgitation of food) usually come from the esophagus, not from the upper stomach pouch, for the very reason I mentioned above. The stomach is designed to stretch to accommodate food, while the esophagus will resist stretching until the food has to come back up or (over time) the esophagus becomes dilated - something we all want to avoid, because even if the band is unfilled and the upper GI tract given a good long rest, there's no guarantee that the esophagus will ever go back to its normal state. And no one should have to live the rest of their life with a malfunctioning esophagus or sphincter. Esophageal dysmotility problems caused by careless eating can become a serious health issue, with the patient eventually having to live on liquids, live with a a feeding tube, and/or hope that an attempt at surgical repair will help. Surgery in that part of the upper GI tract is not something to take lightly, because the scar tissue that develops after surgery can also interfere with esophageal function. I speak from personal experience here. I had an esophageal stricture (from reflux damage). I lived on liquids for months, was unable to revise to the sleeve at the first try because my surgeon couldn't get the small (about the size and shape of a Sharpie marker) bougie calibration instrument through the stricture, and eventually had to have the stricture dilated enough to make eating possible, but not enough to make the stricture disappear forever (it was still there when I had an EGD 6 months later). I think esophageal dysmotility has also been a problem for an LBT member known as MsMaui, and last I heard, even an unfill, months of upper GI rest, and band removal have not resolved her problem.

4. So in my opinion, the best way to avoid these unhappy events and their consequences is not to drink while you eat but to avoid keeping too much fill in the band; to practice good band eating skills: take tiny bites, chew very well, eat slowly, don't drink while you eat, avoid problem foods, learn and heed your unique satiety or "stop eating" signals, and give your body the respect it deserves.

But what do I know?

Jean