snuffy65

My comment about only food,water, and shelter maybe a bit vague. Intentionally hurting a child like sacrifices, starvation, mutilations, and anything a parent does to harm the child should be illegal and the parents should be dealt with. However, these people did not treat an illness with modern medicine. Yes it was stupid of them, but this family was choosing whether to save a child by defying their god which in turn would damn both the parents and the child to hell. Again this sounds stupid to alot of people but its what they believe. Theres religions that would starve their children before they would feed them meat. Theres religions that have some kind of restriction that could potentially hurt or kill a child. People are asking how far can religions go before being stop? Well if these parents were prosecuted how far could the state go to interfere with the church?

Either way, the argument shouldn't be about which is better, public/private/home schooling. The arguement is about freedom to develop your own children the way you want to.

Hmm, it still let me sign up yesterday. I called my cousin, who's in LA and has penty of time on his hands. Says he will get involved. Anything happening in Cali that he can attend to? Protest or something?

In my mind a parent only needs to provide food Water and shelter to their child. You folks are going against their religion. If doctors found that something that would save your childs life, but would also damn your child to hell, which would you choose?

I haven't made revisions. Also, I did answer your question about laws being passed solely based on popular opinion. However, I got an error when sending and didn't have time to retype it. Here is the short of it. No, laws should not be passed based on solely on popular opinon but fact. Slavery was abolished for the FACT that a black man is 100% human and not inferior. This can be proven even in science. A law against abortions will never happen till you can state as FACT that life begins at conception. Which you cannot prove or dissprove at this time.

OK I will try harder this time. You say life begins at conception If life begins at conception then that sperm and egg that joined together then atteached itself to the mother is a human being correct? Then you go on and tell me you wouldn't put a woman in jail for having abortion? If life begins at conception then a woman having an abortion would be a murderer under you definitions. So your not for putting murderers in jail?

Well I don't get it. Apparently a woman can kill or stop a embyo from staying on the uterus wall anyway they wan't except for a medically monitored procedure? You never answered the morning after pill question. And apparently you don't know that birth control is design to stop pregnancy in three ways. heres a tidbit of most common pregnancy pills: "The hormones in the Pill can also sometimes affect the lining of the uterus, making it difficult for an egg to attach to the wall of the uterus." You wouldn't want to jail woman who aborts? Would you not jail a woman and doctor who kills a 4 year old, 5 year old? Maybe a 6 year old? I still don't get it, if life begins at conception then don't the embryos have the same rights as a 5 year old. And again with the slavery comment. Your assuming that eventually everyone (or at least enough people) will believe that life starts at conception. Also, yes alot less people believed that black people were less human. The majority of the people who believed this were the ones that went on record becuase they knew the laws of the country could not enslave 100% humans. So maybe your just saying life begins at conception just so laws can be changed in your favor like the raicst southerners of the pre civil war era?

But you mentioned that life starts at conception. So person can take a drug and kill the "human being" but not have an abortion?So women will get a swift scolding when they abort after you make abortions illegal?

Signed.... This is why government needs to stay out of personal lives.

Theres a big difference between a child getting sick and a child being sacrificed. The child sacrifice is damage that is inflicted by another human being. This family chose God rather then modern medicine to heal their child. Again, I think its stupid but thats what the family believes. If we locked upevery parent who's belief in not using all of modern medicine millions would be put away. Also, again, don't be so quick to pass laws against somone else's beliefs. As an atheist I am sure you can understand people trying to enforce their beleifs on you and your family is a bad thing. Just imagine how angry you would be if they could make laws also.

This was funny, haha.

Should a woman who goes out drinking not even know that they are pregnant yet get hauled to jail for neglecting their child?

So can you answer me about birth control and the morning after pill then? Since women are taking drugs so that a "human life" gets flushed should they be in jail too?

The "don't believe in slavery then don't own a slave" gotcha comment doesn't hold water cause you can define what a slave is. However the idea that the beginning of life is at conception is YOUR BELIEF AND NOT MINE OR 65% OF THIS COUNTRY'S. EXACTLY!!! The view black people were 3/5 person was not the popular view. Hence why slavery was abolished. Where "life begins at conception" is not a popular view either. Ever think that slavery argument you have might actually be backwards?

the don't beleive in slavery then don't own a slave comment doesn't work here cause people have varying opinions on when life begins. you

So we need to pick and choose what religions matter now? Jehovas witnesses have been doing this kind of stuff for years and I don't see uproars when there kid dies due to no blood transfusions. Most doctors excepted this and hospitals confromed to religions. I can't beleive your so easy to give in to government control. People are in such a hurry to give up their rights when they conform to their beleifs but when it doesn't they are so quick to call foul. Example: You said take the kid at least to a holistic healer or herbalist. Well theres tons of people that don;t beleive in them either and means if government listen to them too then those parents should be arrested also. Some people believe that God will take care of them. And if God lets them die then its their time. You want to take that away from them?

How is not getting your child to a doctor, neglect? I mean I know its extreme but why is someone required to use modern medicine? I mean this country has it completely backwards now days. We don't want anyone to use certain drugs that are proven to work, yet we want to force other people to use the regulated care system? Who are you to tell someone who and what they HAVE TO beleive in. I mean believe me, I am the first one to tell you that most religions are just man created houses of worship and know nothing about life and the spiritual. But religion needs its freedoms, as much as atheists do.

Cat's meow hmmm CM doesn't work.

I know, but if you read my post earlier this is what all pro lifers result to at the end of every abortion debate. They have to bring partial birth aborstions then work their way down. If sperm is just sperm and a egg is just an egg why is it all the sudden special? The chemical reaction now makes it illegal to not discard it? You saying mothers are killing babies when they take some birth control pills causeing the wall of the uterus to not be able to hold onto the fetilize eggs? If the morning after pill is killing babies wouldn't that make it the worst drug in the world's history? Can't understand sarcasm can you? And this is the crux of the matter. Spiritually, I would say this might be the start of life. Legally I say no. It doesn't even have a social security number. Problem is no one knows when life starts, but no one is forcing you to have abortions. I agree abortions are bad and should not be taken lightly. I have the option ( and take that option) to express my views against abortions. However I consider the end decision is with the woman and the man (if present) to decide on their own. Why can't pro lifers leave it at that?

Apparently you don't read numbers but thats ok. I can also post the 50 threads I found from Roux-en-Y gastric bypass surgery and Duodenal switch'es wondering if they can get revised to get a lapband too. So its not only lapbanders that don't finish. As for the smell thing that this forum was about? About 90% of the Duodenal switch'ers posting about how they don't stink always seem to follow up at the end with "When I do stink I (insert gross remedy for bad smelly person here)"...... Not saying they all stink but its definitly a problem and definitly is wide spread. Last thing, your proving the OP right. You look at the banders on OH and most of them try to give honest opinions, while a majority of the Duodenal switch'er just start spewing hate for all surgerys. Just like here I said the band is safer and healthier, yes in the short run and long run it is. The only thing most of us have against Duodenal switch'ers is their attitude, which you're clearly showing now. Oh and thanks for investing in a company that helps other people. I try to do the same when I buy stocks. Apparently we all see why the lapband didn't work for you and why you chose a riskier more life altering method, it cuase you don't have a work ethic and blame everyone for your own faults and try to lie yourself into makeing bad choices. Grats on losing weight, hope you gain back some self dignity you lost on your way.

Maybe a flat black and tan woould work? Or just the guinness?

I think we under estimate people's faith here. Religion has built and destroyed countries. Religion shapes and defines people. With so much influence some people will ignore everything else. I for one think the parents should not be prosecuted. We can't start forcing people to ignore their religion. That would be like China telling us to change to communism. And you can bet million of americans would give their lives to avoid that. One other example, a co-worker of mine is a jehovah's witness, and her sister went in to get part of her colon removed. The surgery lasted twice as long and they needed to revive 3 times, all because she wouldn't take blood. I ask my co-worker if she agreed with that choice and she said yes, for her and her children. All I could say is "I wish I had that much faith".......

lol, I forgot that one!

And so like all the other pro lifers you want to take it to the extreme. You will say "If partial birth abortions are illegal then why not make abortions over the second trimester illegal? "Then you would say fetus in 2nd trimester is not much different then the third trimester why not make abortions in the 2nd trimeseter illegal". You would then work your way down till all abortions are illegal and that jacking off in a tissue would get men arrested. Oh but I forgot, god will burn those men. No thanks, I think women should have their right to choose.

RNY vs LAPBAND This is the kind of crap the OP was talking about. In that thread somone wanted to know the pros and cons and of course lapband people and the most of th Roux-en-Y gastric bypass surgery'ers are pretty a target with their comments then couple Duodenal switch'ers gt on and start hollaring about how much better their surgery is and how lap bands kill people. Its funny you can post that the lapband is safer even when the numbers prove it yet Duodenal switch'ers scream foul.:crying: Everyone on these boards warn people what the band is a tool and not a magic pill. And DS'ers and revisionists claim banders keep that quiet dcause most of them either jumped into it too fast or didn't understand what their specific problem is with wait.