ahoy

Looking at the weights you've posted, looks like great progress to me! Now's the time to actually "live". I would advise you to not constantly look at the scales, and just live and eat within reason. You're doing just fine, now enjoy the trip!

Thanks!

I realized that graph wasn't the best example, cuz I only log the lows. So right now I'm 256. Which means that in 2 mos, I've lost just under 4lbs in actuality I got down to 250, then boom, up again practically overnight, basically negating 2 mos of progress… soooo frustrating.

Hey y'all, long time no type. It's been six months since I had the vast majority of my stomach removed in a hospital in the Austrian countryside!

The highlights:

• I've lost up to 60lbs (down to 253).
  
• Went from a tight size 26 to a size 20.
  
• Am fitter & more able to exercise than ever before, even the last time I was this weight.
  
• I've been on & off very sick (sinus/upper respiratory issues, chronic fatigue syndrome, fibromyalgia -- all predate surgery, but I wish they'd improved more than they have)
  
• I'm worried I'll be stuck here forever
  

Here's a little pic montage! All photos are post-op. I forgot to take pre-op photos (yes really!). In the first ones, I've lost about 20lbs already. Newest ones were yesterday in a fitting room for my new sz 20 jeans.

I'm VERY excited about the size 20 jeans.

But I'm also super frustrated

This graph from the ticker factory kinda shows why:

The lowest weight I reached was 250 on Dec 1. My weight shot up 6-8 lbs overnight one night, and fluctuates wildly 3-4lbs on any given day. On Monday, after a transatlantic flight, I weighed 260. Today, 256.

Obviously this *can't* be fat. I mean, I don't always stay below 900 calories, but I surely haven't eaten 21,000 calories in a day or even a week or two weeks. And, as I keep trying to remind myself, 60lbs in just over 6 mos is a pretty good pace!

But the weeks on end of no real, positive movement are getting to me.

I struggle with exercise. I still have pain in the muscle areas under my incisions. I have back and hip problems due to an injury/genetic disorder. My ankles are screwed up from an injury, too.

Some days, just 10 minutes of aerobics will leave me exhausted & unable to do anything else, not even think… that's a chronic fatigue/fibromyalgia thing. I take D-Ribose and magnesium, & they help, but don't solve the problem.

And it seems like once a month, I get sick enough to require time off and antibiotics. Luckily I run my own biz, or I'd be sooo fired right now.

Post-op, I'm definitely better off than I was. I'm definitely *fitter* than I was, in terms of how far/how long I can walk, how fast I can walk, stairs, etc. But it hasn't seemed to help my immune system at all -- and it certainly hasn't made the CFS/FM go away

When I'm sick, I don't have the energy to be Super On The Ball Girl with what I eat. I don't eat fast food, and I don't binge… I feel so lucky that I never had an eating disorder, but I'm an "eat to live" girl and when I am so tired or ill, I just don't have the energy to be fussy. I'll eat whatever's easy… my ability to resist is low. It could be (part of) a sandwich or grilled chicken wrap, schnitzel (which is always breaded) or some chocolate. I feel like I'm still eating an appropriate *volume* -- when I weigh my food, I eat about 4 to 5 oz of Protein at a clip.

Anyway, that's my rave / rant. I'm so thrilled to be in the size 20. But worried & anxious & frustrated that it's not a size 16, or even 18. And worried I'll be stuck here for ages, since I've been stuck here for over a month. Worried that I don't "have what it takes" & won't ever, not physically and not mentally, to be hard core about it, and that I'd have to be hard core to get much further than this. Blargh!!

If you've got something to say that you think could help me, I'm all ears.

Hey Juzmejnee, I'm in the same boat you are! Altho I eat more like 900 cals and don't get as much exercise due to my ongoing CFS/fibromyalgia issues.

I got sleeved in late May, so 6.5 mos out, and have lost up to 60lbs - down to 253 - but then it spikes back up and seems to barely move. Just this past Monday, I flew back to the US from Europe, & weighed in at 260. Today, it's 256. My body can't seem to decide what it's doing.

It's super frustrating, isn't it? Still, tho, 60lbs for us in 6 mos is a good place to be - that's an average of 10lbs per month. (And I don't know about you but for me, that means 12 mos total will be goal, if I can only keep that up.)

I'm going to try the same things these kind folks suggested for you & will report back.

Hope you will also let us know how these tricks have worked for you (or not)

Mine lasted 6 weeks! Then I lost 10lbs in a week and it stayed off. Now I'm in a 2nd stall. But as long as I drop 10 lbs after this one, I'll be happy.

Hey folks!

So I'm firmly in another weeks-long stall after dropping 10lbs in a week following a 6-week stall. GROAN. But that's not what I'm writing about. I'm coming to simply accept it.

What I've noticed the past few weeks is, well, prickly pain around my ribcage on both sides. I'll be sitting still, or moving, and suddenly it'll feel like a couple hot needles in my side. Like when you get the blood flow back in a limb that fell asleep. It'll last just a second or two and then gone. Or I'll be sitting still, or moving, and there will be a "bubble" of achiness… it'll start small, grow, and then stop hurting, all in just a second or two. Sometimes it feels like my muscles are being "tugged" on, which reminds me of post-op pain.

It doesn't seem to be related to when I eat or don't eat. Sometimes it happens when I haven't put anything in my tummy for hours.

It FEELS like muscle pain. It's not bad pain.

But I had surgery 3 mos ago. I hadn't had this pain until 2-3 weeks ago. I wonder if I hurt myself by helping to lift suitcases and boxes in the past month.

Does this sound like I need to see somebody?

I'm in the US, my doc is in Austria, and I don't have health insurance here. I can afford to pay if it's important, but obviously I'd rather not waste hundreds of dollars if it's NOT.

What do you think?

Thanks for your help!

Amy

Same for me, june13sleever. Well, damn close anyway.

I lost just under 30lbs in the first 3 weeks post-op, then stalled for SIX WEEKS with, then lost 10lbs in a week (!!) when the stall broke, bringing me to a total of 40.

40lbs in 2 mos seems totally worth it now that the damn stall broke! but before that last WHOOSH, I was definitely grumpy.

40.0 lbs! Since May 26.

"Only" 2 days ago I found out that I could wear ALL my size 22 jeans, not just that one "generous cut" one -- including jeans that were a bit tight in Aug 2008, right before my wedding 3 YEARS AGO, and which now are totally comfy and not tight at all!

TOSSING OUT my 26s and 24s foreeeeeveeeeeeeer!!

Yay… yay us!

ATLGirl, I stalled for 6 weeks from week 3 post-op. Maybe you need to eat fewer calories and more protein… but maybe you just need to wait. I came back from a trip and ate pretty much just Protein for a few days, drank more Water, and suddenly I lost 10lbs. I doubt it could have been due to either of those changes because they were not really dramatic. I think it was just "time."

It'll happen. Relax.

Oh, Samantha!

Look at this story in another light.

Guy: TOTALLY FLIRTING WITH YOU

You: f**k off!

Guy: PRETENDING HE WASN'T REALLY FLIRTING WITH YOU

Guy: STRIKE OUT AT YOU TO COVER SOUR GRAPES

That's what actually happened. You shut him down and he had to cover his fragile little ego by pretending he didn't mean it and then striking back at you with the cousin thing.

This is a tough thing to practice in every day life, but oh man! So little of what people do to us / in front of us has anything to do with us. When looking at a person's actions, you must always ask "What does this say about THEM?" and in this case I'd bet good money that he was genuine in his flirting, but then he got his panties in a twist when you shut him down. And when fragile little babies get shut down, they attack. Like cornered rats or yippie little dogs.

Now your mom was being a total jerk and I agree with anonynurse who said she "wants to punch her in the neck"

Marilyn, your doctor is simply NOT taking good care of you. I know you're tired and sick and the hardest thing is to go and advocate for yourself, but that's what you have to do! Tell him that his neglect of your issue is unacceptable, and that you refuse to accept another SURGERY instead of investigating what is WRONG with your sleeve.

I know it's hard but you can do it, and we're here to help!

Wow! I'm SO glad you came out of this okay and without having to have your sleeve turned into a RxY or something equally terrible!!

That said… It makes absolute sense that you are grateful to the team for saving your life, but I believe they acted irresponsibly to start with!

When I had 2 days of being able to eat less and less until it started coming back up, my surgeon saw me immediately. Even though I could still drink Water just fine. It turned out to just be a spike in swelling, but what if it hadn't been? My surgeon told me to drink cold liquids only and if it didn't better in 24 hours, or if it got worse, to do another leak test.

Your doctor should have treated you like that, too. Maybe then your surgery would have been less urgent and less scary, and you would have suffered much less!

Oh yes, I've wondered. I have all these other health problems… maybe they've wrecked my body to the point where it WON'T work for me. I am often too sick & tired to do much more exercise than move from the bed to the sofa, too. And I have to eat starches sometimes when my tummy gets really upset because that's the only thing that helps (other than this freaky cholesterol powder that you have to drink 6x a day which makes my other meds not work, ha).

So yes, the "it won't work for ME…" is the fear that keeps me up at night, too.

I actually just ended a 6 week -- yes SIX WEEK!! -- stall. I lost for 2.5 weeks after surgery and then MEGASTALL.

Well it broke a few days ago. And I lost 10lbs in a week.

No matter how bad the stall feels, it will end. It's got to end. Whenever I moped to my husband, "What if it stays like this forever?" he basically told me, "That would be breaking the laws of physics." And he's right

You just have to keep following your guidelines, eat enough but not too much, drink enough (lots!) and exercise if you can.

I could drink almost normally by the end of the first week, and didn't really have any probs with the Soups the hospital gave me (was in the hospital for a week -- standard in Europe!). I was terrified that my sleeve was "too big." As soon as I started eating anything that wasn't liquid, I learned that YEP, my stomach is TINY.

You will learn the same: liquids may be easy, but solid food? Not so much. Don't worry.

Like others have said, it's surely a combo of you having less swelling in your actual surgery site AND plenty of liquid pumped into you. Your body's confused as hell as to what just happened so don't worry that you've "only" lost 12lbs. That might even help make your stalls less bad. (I lost 25 lbs in 2.5 weeks… then stalled for 6. Yup. Would you prefer that?)

Hi Ahoy, howz it going? Have you tried cutting out dairy for a couple of days? I know it helps me with congestion (dairy is really mucus forming). I've never really had a sinus problem despite my 3 nasal ops. But if it's going to help you should notice a difference after 48 hours of abstaining from dairy (difficult when you're early out I know).

Take care.

TJ

Hey! Sorry, I JUST NOW saw your big reply above

Thanks for all your advice, ideas, and support. It means SO much to me.

Yes, my last sinus surgery was really serious! Luckily they won't remove bone again so it won't be as bad when I have it done a 2nd time. *crosses fingers*

You're right about trying diff meds. I have tried the 3 nose sprays that are common in Austria… they're not as big on variety here. Nasonex, Flixonase and NASIC, which the doctor said was non-steroidal but turns out she was wrong. Alas! When I'm back in the US for several months, in 2 weeks (yay!), I will see what else is available.

The thing is, everything mucks up my sleep. EVERYTHING except (I think) my PPI, thank goodness. My friend who visited from the US brought me the "wonder pills," Mucinex with a teeny bit of decongestant. It worked so well! But I had super vivid dreams and 3 days in, got all muscle achey and tiiiiiired because of the sleep probs. Same thing with Claritin. Don't know if they have the equivalent to Zyrtec here, but I plan to stock up and try a bunch when I get back to the US.

Yeah… those drugs ALL work for me. But they also all make my sleep quality so poor, I end up worse than before

Cutting out dairy doesn't seem to make any diff. Can't decide if I'm glad, because I love it, or sad because it'd be an "easy" fix.

Now I'm going to try to add some supplements that are specifically anti-inflammatory, anti-fungal and anti-bacterial and see if that helps. Again, something way easier to do in the US.

BUT, all that said, sleeping with the humidifier and drinking more like 3L/day has already helped. Today I woke up breathing thru my nose. That is amazing! I still clogged up and got a headache but I'll take what I can get

So, lessons learned: drink way more than seems sane, and use the humidifier every night.

Thanks again!

Hi Ahoy, you say that taking steroid nasal sprays interrupts your sleep, causes you sore throats, tummy aches, etc. Are you taking it in the evening? That's the only way I can see it going into your throat and stomach. The steroid nasal spays are most effective in the morning anyway (only slightly more effective, but still).

Oh how I wish the solution was just to change the time I take it!

I have daytime post-nasal drip as well, sometimes quite bad. And right after I got sick with the mono (which lasted about 6 mos!!), my doctor put me on a steroid nose spray and Advair. They disturbed my sleep, made me extremely irritable, and eventually led to HALLUCINATIONS. Yep, that's right, steroid psychosis from 2 totally normal medicines that many people combine.

Somehow during all this crap, I've become incredibly sensitive to chemicals I used to be able to tolerate just fine. It blows.

If that doesn't do the trick then you should be able to 'wash' away the spray by lying on your back 15 minutes after taking the spray and putting a few drops of saline in your nose.

I will try that! The nose sprays REALLY help the swelling but the other side fx have been intolerable.

I've had nasal polyps removed twice as well as having my deviated septum corrected and believe me, that surgery way easier than the WLS we get so maybe nasal surgery has improved since 6 years ago.

I had a bunch of swelling removed from inside the sinuses, and the deviated septum, and bone removed to hopefully improve drainage. I think polyps are not IN the sinuses, are they? Did they pack your sinuses? Cuz that was the part that was terrible. My sinuses and nose were completely packed for 2 weeks, swallowing was much worse than anything I experienced with WLS because my head was so blocked up that swallowing created pressure pops and stuff would come back up. TMI but *shudder* that is what I am afraid of going thru again!

This will be my 3rd night in the hospital and should've only stayed 1 night. I can't keep anything down cause I have so much swelling and it just comes up like foam. This is by far the worst thing I've ever done.

Sorry you're having such a rough time!

You WILL feel better. I spent a week in the hospital, so I know.

A few weeks… maybe a month or two from now… you will forget what it was like to be stuck in the hospital and you will feel good about the surgery. A few weeks of suffering will seem worth it for a better, healthier, longer life.

I originally was going to have a band, was dead set on the band… why? Because it seemed non-permanent. It was adjustable; it was removable. I was so sure that once I lost the weight, I'd be able to have it taken out and be normal.

But my surgeon - who DOES do bands - told me I ought to really think about the sleeve or gastric bypass. He said that bands are a huge money-maker for surgeons, because they require so many adjustments. And that they are falling out of favor among good surgeons in Europe for this reason, and because of complications, lower success rate. (They have had bands here much longer than in the US, so they're ahead of the curve.)

I researched the band and sleeve some more and decided to have the sleeve.

First off, you have the general risks of an implanted device. This is not inconsiderable.

Secondly, you have to have regular maintenance. And it can cost a lot. What if you choose to travel and need an adjustment while you're somewhere else? From the band boards, it seems like a LOT of band doctors refuse to do adjustments on patients they did not operate on.

And if you read the band forums, you'll find that quite a lot of folks have had to have emergency adjustments because their tummy swells up suddenly and they couldn't get anything down, not even Water. It's not a freak occurrence… it seems to happen with regularity.

It also seems that proportionally, MANY more people have bad side effects from the band -- ranging from slipping, erosions, having the band get "stuck" in the tissue, to tissue death. Like Nancy Rivers friend whose stomach "just stopped working", or somebody else on here whose mom had a slippage that cut off blood flow to the stomach and it "died" and she had to have a huge part of her stomach removed, leaving her with a type of sleeve but horizontal instead of vertical.

And… these can happen at ANY time, not just during the healing process.

The equivalent with sleeves are leaks, which are extremely rare after a few months post-op, and strictures. Both of these are easy to spot and relatively easy to fix, unlike band erosion or slippage, which can be silent and happen ANY time.

While at first glance, the band LOOKS safer, the "late complication" (not immediately post-op) rates have been reported as high as 26%! (See http://www.bariatric-surgery-source.com/lap-band-problems-lap-band-complications.html -- the 26% figure seems to come from one of the only studies which actually looks at complications a long time post-op.)

And if the band erodes into your stomach, you may be looking at permanent tissue damage which could restrict your choice of follow-up surgery.

Sooooo... once I found out all these facts, it was a no-brainer.

Did removing 85% of my stomach seem drastic and permanent? Yes.

But the appeal of the band seems to be mostly an illusion.

The band may be reversible… unless you have a complication which permanently damages your stomach, or worse yet, kills off part or all of your stomach.

Plus, if the reason you want reversibility is so you can go back to "eating normally" after you lose your weight, and you have no complications, it's pretty much certain that you will simply gain all the weight back. (Denial at work. I know it cuz I thought this way, too.)

The band may seem like the most flexible choice... unless you have an erosion or slippage which necessitates a new surgery, and then you may not be able to CHOOSE which one you get because of the damage to your stomach.

The band may be adjustable... which seems like a great idea, until of course you need an emergency adjustment, or have a hard time finding a new doctor who will take you on as a patient when you move. Or until you end up paying for it regularly. Or go thru a cycle of repeated adjustments, none of them being "just right." (A lot of folks talk about this on the band boards.)

The sleeve, on the other hand, is very low-maintenance. Once it's done, it's done. Some folks have issues with swelling and getting food and Water down, but then they get IV fluids and they HEAL. And once you're healed, the risk of leaks is tiny… much lower than the risk of band erosion or slippage. You don't have to constantly worry that if you eat a little bit of this, or that, that it'll get stuck or cause slippage.

Many banders also report that they are always hungry, because the rest of their stomach is the same size it always was and it is EMPTY. The sleeve removes the stretchy part of your stomach that makes you feel hungry, so it kills 2 birds with one stone: you are rarely if ever hungry, and you also REALLY cannot eat much.

So that's why I chose the sleeve and I don't regret it. Hope this helps.

I am 2 mos out and just broke a stall that lasted 6 WEEKS. Yes, 6 out of 8 weeks since post-op. Heh.

Hopefully you'll read that and feel better

I agree with KellyL's suggestions. Also, it seems like you might be experiencing a constant sinus infection which will cause your whole system to feel terrible, so no wonder you don't have the energy to exercise. I think I'd deal with that first, and then move on to worrying about your weight loss. If you feel terrible, it's incredibly hard to motivate to work out. If you start to have a little more energy, then I recommend SLOWLY working your way up. I started with 20 minute walks, and now i can work out for an hour and half at a go. It makes a big difference if you go slow and don't overtax yourself at the outset. I hope these suggestions help you!!! We are behind you!!!

Lila21, I definitely have a chronic sinus infection. You should see my CT scans -- a couple of my sinuses are almost completely blocked by swollen tissue. At this point, I have tried everything… neti pot/sinus rinse, long courses of antibiotics, long courses of anti-fungals, etc., with little to show for it. I can't take steroid nose sprays to reduce swelling cuz they interrupt my sleep, trigger serious sore throats, tummy aches, acid reflux, and fibromyalgia (from poor sleep quality).

If you have any creative suggestions for stuff to try, I am incredibly interested

I'm pretty sure the only thing I can do now is surgery, but I JUST had surgery so I've got to wait. I had sinus surgery about 6 years ago and the recovery was kinda rough.

In fact, the whole reason I investigated WLS was because I saw a new sinus surgeon who said, "Well, I can certainly operate on you and you'll feel better for a while. But if you don't lose all this excess weight, you'll be back in here in 2 years." He told me about 2 of his nurses who had WLS and went from having pneumonia, bronchitis & sinus issues all the time to being healthy. That described me to a T.

I was SOOOOOO EXCITED when my nose cleared up in the hospital and post-op for a couple weeks. My skin cleared up and I looked & felt so much better. I wish like hell I knew what it was that caused that. I figure: the pain killers, the 4L/day of IV fluids, the humidified oxygen delivered right to my nose, possibly the diet (e.g. fasting then liquids), or maybe just the shock of surgery.

Then I got my period, and bam: sinuses clogged, face swelled up, broke out, and even the (dark) hair on my face got worse again. BLEAHHHH.

Again, I absolutely believe that you are right -- no doubt the chronic infection is causing issues. But the reason I had the surgery was cuz being overweight can worsen infection and inflammation. I was hoping it'd help instead of being another thing derailed by it

And again, I'm definitely interested in ANY suggestions you might have, if you have experience with this kinda thing.

Thank you all, ladies. It made me feel so much better just to know you're here and ready to be there for me. I hope I can repay you the favor sometime.

AND… miracle of miracles… I woke up today 5lbs lighter. Yes, overnight! (Or over 2 nights, since I didn't weigh yesterday.) Maybe I should complain more often!! Obviously it must be mostly Water, but still, that Water was hanging on for dear life until now, so that's a good sign and I'll take it.

I'm 277 now, which is a number I haven't seen since I got sick with mono (which triggered CFS) almost 2 years ago exactly. That's just a few (7) lbs more than I weighed when I got married 3 years ago. I'm happy about it.

And my face is still swollen so there must be more water ready to come off.

Thanks to your advice, I'm getting back on the mega-Protein wagon (fell off a bit in Italy) and drinking MORE water.

KellyL, thank you so much. I had almost forgotten about taking vits. I was into all sorts of supplements for my fatigue/fibro pre-op, had to quit taking them 3 weeks in advance to prepare, and never got back on the bandwagon somehow. I will attack it again with that dedication.

And I also realized that I must be at least a little dehydrated, cuz I have to breathe thru my mouth all night and I wake up with super crackly dry-mouth. I must lose a LOT of water that way. So I've turned on the humidifier and upped my fluids -- my surgeon says 2L/day, so I started doing 2.5-3L when I wrote this post, and I do feel a bit better already.

Nurse Elisa, you might be right. Most post-op recommendations (from the major universities etc) seem to be in the 600-800 range, my surgeon said 1000, but I've been trying to do 900. Some days I feel sick and don't want to eat tho. (THAT never happened before surgery, heh.) If I stall again, I will definitely try upping calories. I felt fine on 900 for weeks -- but maybe now that is contributing to my fatigue.

((((ahoy))))

Oh sweetie, you've had a lot going on! You need to not add to it by questioning or castigating yourself. You're not doing anything wrong, you're just having a big ol' stall. They SUCK, but they also END. The weaknes and tiredness is not at all unusual at two months out. I was just talking to a sleever friend and she said she really didn't start feeling really good again till six months out. So you are not doing it wrong! You're just going through the challenging times. Hang in there, it WILL get better.

Dee xx

*sniff* Thanks, Dee. Your reply really made me feel a lot better. You're right, I need to chill out and admit that I'm dealing with a lot and not add to it by thinking it's my fault. I tend to be a "responsibility hog"… usually it's a good thing to believe everything is down to you, cuz it gives you power to change things, but not always.

SO… Today my stall broke and I woke up 5lbs down overnight. Really. Crazy. Crazy AWESOME!! Maybe I should complain more often!

(Either it was just time, or it was related to my dramatically increased Protein intake, and going from 1.75-2L water/day to 2.5-3L/day over the past 3 days. Either way, I'm thrilled.)

First of all, I just wanted to say I'm sorry for everything that you're going through! How awful to be in such a cool place and to feel so down and out! I am hoping that you feel a lot better soon. As for me, I don't have much good advice because I'm only about two weeks out, but I just wanted to let you know that I hit a stall in WEEK 2!! I couldn't believe it, but the scale didn't budge for daaaaays. I was so frustrated, but it was TOM and eventually the scale moved again. Also, I wanted to share that someone recently suggested "shocking" your body back into weight loss by eating a few hundred more calories than you're used to, then cutting it back down immediately the next day. Maybe that might work to trigger your metabolism again? Thoughts and prayers are with you.

I might try the "shock" if it doesn't keep moving, thanks, DDA84 And yeah, we ladies get the short end of the stick, don't we? I can imagine it: a stall every month, forever. Heh.

My MD said low Protein results in low to no weith loss.

mnbsleeve, thanks so much for your reply. You're so sweet!

And… I think you hit the nail on the head. I really wasn't getting enuff Protein on our trip. It was a lot harder to eat a lot of protein in a rental house with no sauce pans, no microwave, in a country that doesn't eat cottage cheese… and I definitely slacked off.

Now to rededicate myself to lots and lots of protein and see if that works!

One thing you might try is to back up to liquids only for a few days. (Maybe 5 days) There is something referred to on this site and you can find it online called the five day pouch test. Then gradually start introducing solid foods back in. I am only 5 monts past surgery - I don't have near as much experience as some of the other regulars on this formum.

Best of luck to you. I will follow this topic to see what other ideas people have.

SKCUNNINGHAM, I may do just that. It can't hurt, right? Thanks for the idea!

Have you measured yourself? Maybe you've lost some inches?

I haven't! I wished I had been doing it since the beginning. Why not? Welllll… this is a little embarrassing, but I don't know where to buy a tape measure in Vienna and neither does my Viennese husband. Shopping in Europe is nothing like in the US. Ha. I've lived here 3 years and still don't know where to buy basic stuff (and neither do most Viennese).

That right there is a big part of the reason I decided to move back to the US. Where I will promptly buy a tape measure, hehe.