sophrosyne

That was one of the most beautiful posts I have EVER seen! Thank you soooo much and you are so right, of course! When I was younger, I too thought I was over weight...and now when I look back at those times, I only needed to lose like 20-30 lbs too! So much wasted time and energy...I wont waste any more, that is for dang sure! So, how are you doing...newly banded and all?! Please let me know!

LOL! Me too!

And it took me years to forgive my mom for constantly reinforcing how horrendously and humiliatingly fat I was, when I was really maybe only 20-30 lbs overweight.

And to accept the fact that I created my own self-fulfilling prophecy. Regardless of my actual reality, I thought I was fat, so I became fat.

So, in the end, I have to take responsibility for allowing myself to accept my mother's view of reality, and then making it real.

I think it has to do with expectations.

When you lost the weight on your own, you weren't expecting to get down to a model-sized body. So you saw the changes in a positive light, as a pleasant surprise, and were pleased.

After WLS, your subconcsious mind has the expectation that now, the weight's going to come off immediately, and it does expect a model-sized body when you look in the mirror.

So, now, when you look in the mirror, you're not pleasantly surprised by how much weight you lost. All you can see is how much more you still need to lose. Because your reality and your expectations have become so separate from one another.

Your expectations are what keeps you from seeing your success and what keeps you focused on your perceived failure.

For instance, when I look at old photos of myself, with the expectation that they're going to be horrendous, I'm pleasantly surprised that they're really not as bad as all that.

But when I look at a current photo, with the expectation that it's going to show what an attractive, thin person I really am (the one I see on the inside of my head) I'm appalled at what the photo winds up showing me. A heavy-set woman with a double-chin, who's aged enormously in the last 10 years.

It's all in the expectations.

Years ago, the Christians (even evangelical fundamentalist) were nothing like what I've been running into lately. They were tolerant, loving people who seemed to have a communication with their God that was beyond me. I remember quizzing every one I ran across about the whole "God talks to me" thing.

As time has marched on, however, I find that those types of fundamentalist Christians (loving, tolerant, with a surety in their religion) come along as often as a blue moon.

I don't know what's changed, but there's a lot of intolerance in the Christian world, and an aversion to people who are (or seem) too intelligent (or too tolerant) as being somehow untrustworthy. I don't get it.

But I do also think that this administration has completely destroyed the reputation of Christians (and Americans) around the world. They (Bush and Cronies) are the epitome of evil. Self-interested, money-worshipping, lying, scum-sucking cabal of people who should be imprisoned for war crimes, hiding behind what good Christians they are. While their behavior is actually much more akin to satanism than it is to Christianity.

PS: I know there are a lot of Christians on this list, and many of them seem to be lovely people. But there are a few that just make my eyes roll. Like the one who posted the original cartoon. If that piece of bigoted shit is what makes her giggle, well, it says a lot.

Wow, when it comes to heads up their asses, that's a label I associate with fundamentalist Christians. Especially evangelical fundamentalist Christians, who usually tend to be the most intolerant and ignorant people I've ever run across. But to each their own.

I have no idea what my husband makes, other than "more than me". He used to be ion charge of all the money, until I got fed up with having to beg for every dime. So I went and opened my own account and deposited my paychecks into it. That almost took us into divorce court. He's very old-fashioned. (He's since gotten over it). Not old-fashioned enough to let me stay home and raise my baby, unfortunately. :phanvan

Whatever happened to husbands that believed they should support the family while the wife raises the children? Sigh.

It's a re-run. I've seen it before. Basically, if you have bypass, you absorb alcohol differently (hits you harder, but you sober up quicker) and you can drink more than you ever thought possible and it can turn you into an alcoholic.

Boiling down the episode - fix your underlying problems, if you don't, they'll rear their ugly head after your weight loss and saddle you with new problems.

And there was one family where the father only loved his daughter, really, if she was thin. And when she was fat, he was an ass. But the daughter, bless her heart, somehow managed to believe that he really does love her deep inside.

How can people not love their children, just because of their weight? What utter bullshit is that? And she's a really lovely young woman - both fat and thin - who deserves to have a better family.

I think that Lucifer and Satan were different entities is fairly widely accepted outside of fundamentalist christian circles. Many OT scholars believe it's inaccurate to associate Satan with evil. Heck, even us atheists get that. :kiss

Actually, it's kinda the other way. Satan is the Adversary, God's Anvil, his role is to test the spirits/souls of mankind. Lucifer, as the light-bringer, is more of a Promethean character.

Now that is a stupid statement. As a biblical scholar, you should know that many names and terms we use now were interpretations.

In the Vulgate, an early-5th-century translation of the Bible into Latin by Jerome, Lucifer occurs in Isaiah 14:12-14 as a translation of the Greek word heosphorus ("dawn-bearer"), an epithet of Venus. The original Hebrew text of this verse was הילל בן שחר (heilel ben-schahar), meaning "Helel son of Shahar." Helel was a Babylonian / Canaanite god who was the son of another Babylonian / Canaanite god named Shahar.

Thanks, Greg. You're restoring my faith in mankind.

This Ron guy is 62 years old, set in his ways, with very limited study. He probably has only read the KJV, and knows nothing of world mythologies or even Gnostic Christianity. Back when he was my age, the misconceptions he's preaching now are what was taken as literal truth by the general congregation.

Even now, the difference between Lucifer and Satan is only starting to penetrate mainstream Christianity. And they have no idea about some of the deeper mysteries, because those are usually taught only in the Monasteries. So what are ya gonna do? LOL!

Huh! Yeah Dude, Lucifer and Satan are one in the same!

And yes, you are clueless!

Actually, they're not. And if you were a real theologian, you would know that. Of course, that would take years of study, and why waste the time when you can just open your own ministry in a day or two?

Oh, and yes, by the way, I'm ordained as well. Which goes to prove that ANYONE can get an ordination these days. Even you.

I didn't say one side was RIGHT and the other side was WRONG. I said that if a person believes one thing and that one thing is diametrically opposed to another thing, he must LOGICALLY believe that the other thing is WRONG. I don't go around telling people, "I think you're wrong". Humorously enough, aren't you telling me I'm WRONG in this post? (Which is fine, BTW, because that's what you believe).

No, it doesn't follow logically. It's not SCIENCE, it's FAITH. Different beliefs are like different trees in the same forest. How can one tree be wrong or right?

Did I say you were wrong for your beliefs? In any post? Even though they're not MY beliefs?

Talk about crap. Christians -- real Christians -- don't believe it's OK to kill abortionists. Pro-aborts wave that flag like it's the mantra of pro-lifers and it just plain isn't.

Isn't that the point though? That's the hypocrisy that religious terrorists indulge in - convincing themselves that they have the one true right belief. When anyone with half a brain can see that their behavior is making a mockery of their beliefs.

For instance, real Christians would NEVER kill someone. The religious zealots, however, HAVE killed people in the name of Christianity. And for some reason, think that's okay.

You don't seem to comprehend! Saten is not addressed as the Morning Star anywhere in the KJV.

You want to see the word HELL, read the verses I gave you!

Here is one so you don't have to put any effort into it -

Luk 16:23in HELL helifted uphiseyes,beingintorments,andseethAbrahamafar off,andLazarusinhisbosom.

I gave you a few dozen verses from the New Testament. I vave dozens more from the Old testament if you still gon't GET IT!!

#3 - You don't have a clue what you are talking about - as usual!

Yo, dude, slow down and try to read actual English here for a sec.

1) Lucifer and Satan are not the same entity. I thought you said you were trained in Christianity or something. If you are, you should know that.

2) Did I SAY you were lying? I guess I should SPEAK VERY SLOWLY... In the PARTS I READ, it wasn't there. I asked honestly, you provided. I look forward to reading the actual passages.

3) I know exactly what I'm talking about. If you're clueless, there's nothing I can do about that.

Maybe we should have just given them free medical care, Visa cards and drivers licences without ID, like the illegal immigrants, and maybe those big, bad terrorists would then be nice to us! If you love them so much, I am sure you could find a home there if you didn't mind giving up your comfortable western lifestyle. I mean, that would be the "liberal" thing to do, right!

WTF? Uh, yeah, and the conservative neo-con thing to do is to give terrorist organizations a butt-load of money, fly Bin Laden's family out of the US so they don't get questioned, protect Saudi Arabia even though most of the terrorists came from there, start a war with a country that has nothing to do with the terrorists but has oil, lie to the American people repeatedly and send thousands of our children to their death.

But, yeah, lets sit here and make inane comments about the liberals, because they're soooooo dangerous.

The term "Morning Star" is used twice in scripture, KJV and both time it refers to jesus and is located in the Rook of Revelations.

Allow me to point out HELL to you that you say does not appear in the Bible . . .

Matt. 5:22 Matt: 5:29 Matt: 10:28 Matt: 11:23 Matt: 16:18

Matt: 18:9 Matt: 23:15 Matt:23.33 Mark 9:43 Mark 9:45

Mark: 9:47 Luke: 10:15 Luke: 12:5 Luke: 16:23 Acts: 2:27

Act: 2:31 James 3:6 2Peter 2:4 Rev: 1:18 Rev. 6:8

Rev: 20:13 Rev: 20:14

The books of The Gospel of Thomas? The Gospel of Enoch are not canon because the theologians did not consider them inspired, accurate or to have spiritual authority.

Christianity has a great depth of spiritual mysticism, and esoteric knowledge to offer. Unfortunately, much of it is lost to literal interpretations and inept priests.

You are wrong on all three points!

Not really. Typical round-about.

1) You never addressed the first point. You're only arguing about the frequency of how often Jesus refers to himself as the Morning Star.

2) I stated in what I've read, there is Paradise, and then the gnashing of teeth of those who are locked out of Paradise. I asked to have the actual "Hell" pointed out to me, as I'm curious about where it is.

3) More likely, it's because what they have to say challenges the uninspired, idiotic dogma of the Church.

I think there's a difference between Christianity and Churchianty. The Church is an institution that thrives on blind faith, constant donations, and inane dogma.

One other thing. Don't those of you who are athiests believe people of faith are WRONG? Just like those of us who are Christians believe athiests are WRONG? Why is it OK for you to believe that we're wrong and not the opposite? I have never, ever told anyone they're going to hell. It's not my decision to make. And it certainly isn't good ammunition in a debate against someone who doesn't believe in hell! I will most certainly share my beliefs with them, but I have a right to my beliefs and I have a right to share them. I'm constantly amazed that liberals preach tolerance and yet are intolerant of Christians.

WTF? What's with this WRONG crap? Christians believe what they believe, atheists believe what they believe. Who's to say if one is right or wrong?

Although, when it comes to the "you're going to Hell" crap, I ONLY hear that from Christians. Other religions don't believe in hell, so why would they use that as an attempt to scare someone?

Let me amend that... When other people use it, I think they're trying to point out the hypocrisy within many people. For instance, if you kill someone, you're going to hell. According to Christians. But if they kill a doctor who performs abortion, all of a sudden the rules change.

Personally, I think people should live ethically. But if they're incapable of having their own ethics (and some people are) than they absolutely should live by the Ten Commandments and the word of the Lord. Because it gives them an ethical compass that they themselves are lacking.

Now, if the neo-cons would follow the preachings of Jesus, instead of the preachings of Hitler, the world would be much better off.

So I'm asking again, because if you answered I didn't see your response. If you profess to be a Christian and do NOT believe the Bible is literal, do you believe that Jesus is the Son of God, that He was crucified, died, and was resurrected on the third day?

The title Lucifer, means light-bringer, and he's frequently referred to as the Morning Star.

In the Bible, Jesus frequently refers to himself as the Morning Star.

Is Jesus an avatar of Lucifer?

People keep speaking of Hell. But in the Bible, there is no Hell. There is only Paradise and outside the gates of Paradise. (In what I've read, at least). Could someone point me to Hell?

What about the books that didn't make it into the Bible? The Gospel of Thomas? The Gospel of Enoch?

There's someone who doesn't believe in global warming, after living in today's world? Global warming makes all the seasons more extreme. Look at the killer storms in the midwest, the snow in Los Angeles. Last summer, it was 120 degrees in the SHADE at my house, and I live up in the hills, which had always been temperate/cool in the summers. Every year, the weather's getting harsher.

Polar bears are drowning, Egypt is being threatened by rising sea levels, ice caps are melting at an astounding rate.

As far as science goes, it's an admitted fact that the Bush administration has altered scientific reports to further their own agendas and deny global warming.

When the coastal cities are underwater, will you believe in global warming then?

For what it's worth, I think the bible is allegorical and there are more mythical insights to be found in it than literal. Although it does have a few literal here and there.

But then, I was raised Greek Orthodox. And we all know how tricksy those Greeks can be!

PS: Ann Coulter's a hack. Divisive, self-centered, always looking for the money, more than willing to contribute to the problem if it furthers her pocketbook. JMO.

Holy crap! 164 pages of posts on...? Whether the Bible is meant to be taken literally or whether Peter's a misogynistic pig? (Sorry, couldn't help myself). I tried wading through it, but damn!

Does this thread come with a Cliff's Notes?

I'm going to see the GI Specialist and see if I can do the band. The surgeon is worried that there's too much esophageal scarring and the band will worsen things. Although, he'll do the band if I insist on it.

If the GI guy says I can't do the band, I guess it's back to Atkins for me. It seems pointless to get a band surgery that will need to be reversed, and I'm really unhappy about the idea of a bypass.

Although, I've talked to other patients, and they say that, while he's an excellent bariatric surgeon, he is a bit bypass-happy. So maybe insisting on the band is the way to go.

Sigh.

Wow. Usually it's the liberals that the right-wing fundies and neo-cons accuse of being domestic terrorists. It's interesting to see it flipped the other way.

Just in general, anyone who insists that they have the one true and right path to anything, in any religion or non-religion, are the ones who usually cause the problems, trying to force their "enlightenment" down other people's throats. Whether it's through incessant nagging, on a picket line, at the end of a gun, or holding a bomb and screaming "jihad".

I'm all for people having personal enlightenment and their own Gods and saviors. Just don't expect other people to bow down to the same ones and don't try to legislate your religion and morality on society in general. That's all I ask of this administration.

Well, that and don't ask my children to fight wars so the rich neo-cons can line their pockets with oil money. Oh, and stop trying to destroy the middle class, you power-hungry, money-grubbers. Shame on the neo-cons for trying to cloak their personal power-plays in a facade of Christianity. They're the ones giving Christians a bad name. Not the people on this board.

It's why I can't wait to see the neo-cons out of power and anyone with a modicum of common sense, decency and intelligence taking their place in the White House.

I need info/advice on the bypass. My surgeon thinks it's the best option for me, but I was only considering the lapband. Can you point me to boards that discuss it? Or threads? Or people's experiences?

My boss had it done, and she's been in hell. But I know 2 other people who have had it done and they seem happy with it. But I need to gather more data before I decide.

Thanks!

Gastro-Ephageal Reflux Disorder.

In other words, really bad heartburn.

If left untreated, it can lead to Barrett's, which means the lining of your esophagus has mutated and into stomach cell lining to deal with the acid.

It can also lead to esophageal or stomach cancer.

Another side effect is GERD-induced asthma. The acid from your stomach actually travels into your lungs and scars the brachial tubes.

You can wake up coughing, throwing up, or feeling like you're drowning. Not pleasant.

It completely went away for a year after I had my baby, but now it's back. Although I have no idea why.

Just had my first appt w/the surgeon. He thinks the lap-band will exacerbate my GERD, and wants to do the Bypass. He's referring me to a GI specialist for a work-up, to see what shape my esophagus/stomach are in, but he's pretty against the Lap-Band and for the Bypass. So I guess I'll have to see what the GI guy says.

A son, Judah? That's interesting. I had heard it was a daughter, Sara, by Mary Magdalene. Although there are people who say that Jesus was as much a mythical composite as Odin or Herne. A fictional character used to illuminate an initiate journey into the esoteric mysteries.

So I'm looking forward to seeing it. Even though I find most of the bible-centered shows to take things way too literally. Through the "literal truth", the mysteries are lost. IMO.