leroyspuds

"Im actually Polish" Oh that explains it! Only kidding Bob, so am I. :>)

Fine, then why don't you just say you're against illegal immigration. I'm sure we'd all agree. Why get so wound up over the antics of teenagers? They are all just trying to antagonize each other. As adults we see this for what it is. Let's concentrate on the real problems facing our country.

Aetna paid for my February surgery. They were great and the whole thing cost me under $300 out of pocket. The qualifications were: -a 3 month doctor supervised diet and exercize plan. -2 years of BMI over 40 or BMI over 35 with one of the following comorbidities: sleep apnea, or uncontrolled high blood pressure, or diabetes I had BMI of almost 37 and sleep apnea.

Bob, I think they were all "American" kids. Displaying the flag in any form for the purpose of showing your patriotism shouldn't be offensive. But this wasn't done for patriotic reasons -- it was done to start trouble. So it wasn't the flag that was offensive, it was the boys' purpose -- to make an anti-hispanic statement on a Mexican holiday. I wonder if they wore their flag shirts on any other day simply to show their patriotism? It's obvious what they were doing.

"Whats this have to do with anything? Why does the race card get pulled out so easily these days? Maybe these kids were just fed up with society these days being so pc and putting down our own country to satisfy other nationalities?" Your nationality is the nation you're a citizen of. Are you referring to Mexican nationals? The race card? From patriotic Americans we often hear, "We want our country back." Back from whom? PC is simply not referring to people in an offensive biased way. You think kids are fed up with not referring to people in an offensive biased way? PC is a natural part of Christianity for those of you that are Christians and believe we are a Christian nation. Jesus said "Love thy neighbor as theyself." It simply means respecting others and regarding their needs and desires as highly as we regard our own.

I'm not sure, but I don't think the hispanic kids were celebrating Cinco de Mayo. The problem was the boys wearing the flags were using the ocassion of Cinco de Mayo to make an anti-Mexican statement. I don't think the hispanic kids did anything. It was the principal who took this action to try to avoid things escalating into a fight among the kids. (Though I don't agree with his actions.) Let's be honest here: a lot of white people are prejudice against hispanics, for reasons I won't debate here. The hispanic kids weren't disrepecting the flag, the flag boys were just looking for trouble. This is getting blown way out of proportion.

BTW, What happened to the Native American's was not done in the name of expanding our Christian nation. It was done in the name of sin. What I do know is that even though man sinned, God used the outcome to form a nation that was christian..." ____________________________________________________ The claim that the US is a Christian nation is not historically acurate. The religious right tries to use this to justify it's desire to construct a society based on the bible and to influence laws related to abortion, stem cell research, gay marraige, and the like. The republican party takes advantage of Christians to get them to vote repubican with the promise of dominionism, when their real motivation is power and financial gain. Dominionists: a. celebrate Christian nationalism, believe the US once was, and should once again be, a Christian nation. b. promote religious supremacy, generally don't respect the equality of other religions c. endorse theocratic visions, believe the 10 Commandments, or "biblical law," should be the foundation of American law, and that the U.S. Constitution should be seen as a vehicle for implementing Biblical principles. Deists: believe that a supreme being created the universe, and that this can be determined using reason and observation of the natural world alone, without the need for either faith or organized religion. American Founding Fathers, or Framers of the Constitution, including Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, Cornelius Harnett, Gouverneur Morris, and Hugh Williamson, James Madison, John Adams, possibly Alexander Hamilton, Ethan Allen and Thomas Paine, were influenced by this philosophy which played a major role in creating the principle of separation of church and state, expressed in Thomas Jefferson's letters, and the principle of religious freedom expressed in the First Amendment to the United States Constitution. The Treaty of Tripoli passed by the United States Senate, which assured the ruler of that Muslim state that the United States government "is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion."

Patty, a lot of what's wrong with our culture stems from greed. Greed is what drives capitalism, which is acceptable to an extent. But not to the extent where those with the most resources victimize those with the least. Not to the extent where our environment is destroyed. Not to the extent where one country destroys an indigeneous people because they want to profit from it. Government does have a role in protecting us from greed. This didn't start with Obama. The rich and powerful do not have the right to do what ever they please regardless of the consequences on the rest of us. Patty, why do you think so many people are depressed and anxious and on medications for it? Why is there so much violence, distrust and hatred? Our society is sick. The common working person busts their butt to survive, all the while being barraged by TV, magazine, billboard and radio ads to buy a bunch of useless junk no one needs. It takes both parents to support a family and no one is at home to care for the children and cook healthy meals. Big business is getting filthy rich off of this. Of course, they're trying to protect their pocketbook by being against financial and environmental regulation and taxation. How do they succeed at this? Lobbyists for one, but also by making you afraid, by pitting you against others, by putting you in competition with your fellow citizens where there are too few resources for us all to prosper. This isn't the life your god envisioned for you. Greed is one of the 7 deadly sins. Greed - a sin of excess, excessive desire and pursuit of wealth, status, and power. St. Thomas Aquinas wrote that greed was "a sin against God, just as all mortal sins, in as much as man condemns things eternal for the sake of temporal things." Greed is an inordinate desire to acquire or possess more than one needs or deserves, especially with respect to material wealth.

The murder of that rancher was indeed a horrible crime, but the passing of legislation requiring people to carry proof of citizenship because of it is like swatting a fly with a buick. Particularly when the statistics indicate there's no relationship between immigrants (including the unauthorized) and higher crime rates. I'm sure there have been murders committed by whites in Arizona without such a drastic public reaction. No rational person would support illegal immigration, but this law has nothing to do with that. It's merely an expression of the prejudice against Hispanics in Arizona.

MYTHS LEADING TO RACISM AGAINST LATINO IMMIGRANTS: Myth #1. Crime rate high among unauthorized immigrants Supporters of Arizona’s harsh new immigration law claim that it is, in part, a crime-fighting measure. However, crime rates have already been falling in Arizona for years despite the presence of unauthorized immigrants, and a century’s worth of research has demonstrated that immigrants are less likely to commit crimes or be behind bars than the native-born. According to data from the U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics, the rates for both property crime and violent crime (including murder, assault, and rape) have fallen in Arizona in recent years High immigration states have the lowest crime rates. According to a 2008 report from the conservative Americas Majority Foundation, crime rates are lowest in states with the highest immigration growth rates, such as Arizona. From 1999 to 2006, the total crime rate declined 13.6 percent in the 19 highest-immigration states (including Arizona), compared to a 7.1 percent decline in the other 32 states. A 2007 study by University of California, Irvine, sociologist Rubén G. Rumbaut, found that for every ethnic group, without exception, incarceration rates among young men are lowest for immigrants, even those who are the least educated. This holds true especially for the Mexicans, Salvadorans, and Guatemalans who make up the bulk of the unauthorized population. Moreover, these patterns have been observed consistently over the last three decennial censuses, a period that spans the current era of mass immigration, and recall similar national-level findings reported by three major government commissions during the first three decades of the 20th century. The problem of crime in the United States is not ‘caused’ or even aggravated by immigrants, regardless of their legal status.

I'm 5'1" with a large frame. I set my goal at the highest weight in the "normal" BMI category, which is 132. In three months I've lost 25 or the 62 pounds I should lose. I'd be satisfied at 140# though. I can live with being a little overweight, but not obese. It's been fun to be able to say to myself "goodbye 190's, goodbye 180's, goodbye 170's." Can't wait to kiss 60's and 50's goodbye!

For Protein I can eat shrimp, hamburger, moist chicken, ham steak, turkey sausages, turkey bacon, and scrambled eggs and omlets. Tuna and pork sticks and haven't tried steak or beef roast. I'm at 5.5 cc in 10cc band and have pretty good restriction. I hope I can continue to eat the same stuff I'm eating now after getting more fills. Thanks for the tip on white sweet taters sslouha. Maries, for me getting stuck is the feeling of food painfully scraping it's way down my esophagus and sitting up high in my chest like a lump that won't go down. I'm not sure if this is what others call being stuck. It usually just goes away in a minute or two unless I keep eating that food. Everyone gets different sensations I think. It's a trial and error thing and taking small bites, eating slowly, and chewing real well helps avoid such problems.

I do see what you're up against here. I admit I was baiting PG and got the response I expected. It's entertaining in a way.

Patty, do you think god condones what happened to the Native American people in the name of expanding our "christian" nation for economic gain? Do you think jesus would have sanctioned building wealth with the blood of Native and African Americans?

Anyone care to join in? Implication is Native Americans deserved to be slaughtered because they were socialists! ---------------------------------------------------------- pattygreen has just replied to a thread you have subscribed to entitled - I am Curious What Will be Highjacked Next in Our Country.....Lawsuit seeks to take... - in the LBT Rants and Raves *** Off-Topic DEBATE AREA *** forum of LAP-BAND Surgery and LAP-BAND Discussion Forum. This thread is located at: http://www.lapbandtalk.com/f80/i-am-curious-what-will-highjacked-next-our-country-lawsuit-seeks-take-84396-new/ Here is the message that has just been posted: *************** Merely living on the land does not confirm ownership. Where do you get the idea that America belonged to the Indians? The white man's record is not clean, but the only land the indians owned is the land they cleared, lived on and cultivated. To suggest that they owned the whole country simply because they rode around it on horseback is pure poppycock. Most, if not all indian tribes did not believe in personal ownership of land. They did not consider a plot of ground theirs to be passed on to a son but ground that was owned by the tribe for the good of all. The same attitude was held toward food. If a brave took a bison or deer in a hunt, it did not belong to him but to the tribe. The shallow thinker says, "That's magnanimous and unselfish." but it is also socialism and could be one reason why the Indians were living substantially the same way when Columbus arrived as they had lived 500 years earlier. Also, just because man is born unto sin, doesn't make the truth of America starting as a Christian Nation any less true. ***************

The first people on the continental US were Native Americans. Good white Christians stole their land and murdered them. Manifest Destiny makes it OK to steal and murder. Not exactly "his" principles right? Native Americans Manifest Destiny had serious consequences for Native Americans, since continental expansion implicitly meant the occupation and annexation of Native American land. The United States continued the European practice of recognizing only limited land rights of indigenous peoples. In a policy formulated largely by Henry Knox, Secretary of War in the Washington Administration, the U.S. government sought to expand into the west through the legal purchase of Native American land in treaties. Indians were encouraged to sell their vast tribal lands and become "civilized", which meant (among other things) for Native American men to abandon hunting and become farmers, and for their society to reorganize around the family unit rather than the clan or tribe. The United States therefore acquired lands by treaty from Indian nations, usually under circumstances which suggest a lack of voluntary and knowing consent by the native signers. Advocates of civilization programs believed that the process of settling native tribes would greatly reduce the amount of land needed by the Indians, making more land available for homesteading by white Americans. Thomas Jefferson believed that while American Indians were the intellectual equals of whites, they had to live like the whites or inevitably be pushed aside by them.[citation needed], Jefferson's belief, rooted in Enlightenment thinking, that whites and Native Americans would merge to create a single nation did not last his lifetime, and he began to believe that the natives should emigrate across the Mississippi River and maintain a separate society, an idea made possible by the Louisiana Purchase of 1803.[citation needed] In the age of Manifest Destiny, this idea, which came to be known as "Indian Removal", gained ground. Although some humanitarian advocates of removal believed that American Indians would be better off moving away from whites, an increasing number of Americans regarded the natives as nothing more than savages who stood in the way of American expansion. As historian Reginald Horsman argued in his influential study Race and Manifest Destiny, racial rhetoric increased during the era of Manifest Destiny. Americans increasingly believed that Native Americans would fade away as the United States expanded. As an example, this idea was reflected in the work of one of America's first great historians, Francis Parkman, whose landmark book The Conspiracy of Pontiac was published in 1851. Parkman wrote that Indians were "destined to melt and vanish before the advancing waves of Anglo-American power, which now rolled westward unchecked and unopposed."[30]

So I while I think your point is well taken, I disagree that the term "nigger" is on the same insult scale as some of the other slurs you listed. But then I don't use racial or intellectual slurs as a general rule. By the way, what's a pape? Did you mean pope? BJean, thanks for your thoughtful reply to my post. Certainly using racial slurs against our country's president is one of the most ignorant and hateful things an American could do. FYI, "pape" is a derrogatory word that used to be used to describe a Catholic. I believe it's derived from "papist."

A real socialist's point of view on the subject, from the Washington Post: Obama's No Socialist. I Should Know. By Billy Wharton - Sunday, March 15, 2009 It took a massive global financial crisis, a failed military adventure and a popular repudiation of the Republican Party to make my national television debut possible. After 15 years of socialist political organizing I found myself in the midtown Manhattan studio of the Fox Business Network on a cold February evening. Who ever thought that being the editor of the Socialist magazine, circulation 3,000, would launch me on a cable news career? The media whirlwind began in October with a call from a New York Times writer. He wanted a tour of the Socialist Party USA's national office. Our media profile exploded. Even the Wall Street Journal wanted a socialist to quote after the first bailout bill failed last fall. Traffic to our Web site multiplied, e-mail inquiries increased and meetings with potential recruits to the Socialist Party yielded more new members than ever before. Socialism -- an idea with a long history -- suddenly seemed to have a bright future in 21st-century America. Whom did we have to thank for this moment in the spotlight? Oddly enough, Republican politicians such as Mike Huckabee and John McCain had become our most effective promoters. During his campaign, the ever-desperate McCain, his hard-charging running mate Sarah Palin and even a plumber named Joe lined up to call Barack Obama a "socialist." We appreciated the newfound attention. But we also cringed as the debate took on the hysterical tone of a farcical McCarthyism. The question "Is Obama a socialist?" spread rapidly through a network of rightwing blogs, conservative television outlets and alarmist radio talk shows and quickly moved into the mainstream. All this speculation over whether our current president is a socialist led me into the sea of business suits, BlackBerrys and self-promoters in the studio at Fox Business News. I quickly realized that the antagonistic anchor David Asman had little interest in exploring socialist ideas on bank nationalization. For Asman, nationalization was merely a code word for socialism. Using logic borrowed from the 1964 thriller "The Manchurian Candidate," he portrayed Obama as a secret socialist, so far undercover that not even he understood that his policies were de facto socialist. I was merely a cudgel to be wielded against the president -- a physical embodiment of guilt by association. The funny thing is, of course, that socialists know that Barack Obama is not one of us. Not only is he not a socialist, he may in fact not even be a liberal. Socialists understand him more as a hedge-fund Democrat -- one of a generation of neoliberal politicians firmly committed to free-market policies. The first clear indication that Obama is not, in fact, a socialist, is the way his administration is avoiding structural changes to the financial system. Nationalization is simply not in the playbook of Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner and his team. They favor costly, temporary measures that can easily be dismantled should the economy stabilize. Socialists support nationalization and see it as a means of creating a banking system that acts like a highly regulated public utility. The banks would then cease to be sinkholes for public funds or financial versions of casinos and would become essential to reenergizing productive sectors of the economy. The same holds true for health care. A national health insurance system as embodied in the single-payer health plan reintroduced in legislation this year by Rep. John Conyers Jr. (D-Mich.), makes perfect sense to us. That bill would provide comprehensive coverage, offer a full range of choice of doctors and services and eliminate the primary cause of personal bankruptcy -- health-care bills. Obama's plan would do the opposite. By mandating that every person be insured, ObamaCare would give private health insurance companies license to systematically underinsure policyholders while cashing in on the moral currency of universal coverage. If Obama is a socialist, then on health care, he's doing a fairly good job of concealing it. Issues of war and peace further weaken the commander in chief's socialist credentials. Obama announced that all U.S. combat brigades will be removed from Iraq by August 2010, but he still intends to leave as many as 50,000 troops in Iraq and wishes to expand the war in Afghanistan and Pakistan. A socialist foreign policy would call for the immediate removal of all troops. It would seek to follow the proposal made recently by an Afghan parliamentarian, which called for the United States to send 30,000 scholars or engineers instead of more fighting forces. Yet the president remains "the world's best salesman of socialism," according to Republican Sen. Jim DeMint of South Carolina. DeMint encouraged supporters "to take to the streets to stop America's slide into socialism." Despite the fact that billions of dollars of public wealth are being transferred to private corporations, Huckabee still felt confident in proposing that "Lenin and Stalin would love" Obama's bank bailout plan. Huckabee is clearly no socialist scholar, and I doubt that any of Obama's policies will someday appear in the annals of socialist history. The president has, however, been assigned the unenviable task of salvaging a capitalist system intent on devouring itself. The question is whether he can do so without addressing the deep inequalities that have become fundamental features of American society. So, President Obama, what I want to know is this: Can you lend legitimacy to a society in which 5 percent of the population controls 85 percent of the wealth? Can you sell a health-care reform package that will only end up enriching a private health insurance industry? Will you continue to favor military spending over infrastructure development and social services? My guess is that the president will avoid these questions, further confirming that he is not a socialist except, perhaps, in the imaginations of an odd assortment of conservatives. Yet as the unemployment lines grow longer, the food pantries emptier and health care scarcer, socialism may be poised for a comeback in America. The doors of our "socialist cubby-hole" are open to anyone, including Obama. I encourage him to stop by for one of our monthly membership meetings. Be sure to arrive early to get a seat -- we're more popular than ever lately.

Too bad this "Christian nation" was founded on stealing and genocide. People were stripped of their property, religous beliefs, and culture. Their children were torn away from their families and placed in Christian mission schools. All to make way for a nation founded by "his" principles. Do you mean "thou shalt not kill" and "thou shalt not steal?"

This isn't about a threat to our American heritage and it isn't about those boys being prevented from displaying their patriotism. More to the point, the incident is a reflection of tensions in the Hispanic community over recent legislation in Arizona and outright racism in the border states. It's not far fetched to assume these boys were making the statement -- "Mexicans go home." The vice principal was probably just trying to prevent trouble. However, I think he should have just ignored the boys rather than calling attention to them. It just wasn't an intelligent way to deal with the situation. Our representatives in Congress need to start dealing effectively with the immigration issue.

"I see now that we are at war, any kind of war you like to categorize it as and I will be darned if the lefties get guilted into backing off. I'm on it like white on rice and I will stay on it as long as my president continues to get attacked by the gnomes on the right." tdslf1, I just think we hurt our cause by stooping to the level of others. One of the things I admire most about our president is his ability to take the high road. "We can’t expect to solve our problems if all we do is tear each other down. You can disagree with a certain policy without demonizing the person who espouses it. The problem is that this kind of vilification and over-the-top rhetoric closes the door to the possibility of compromise. It undermines democratic deliberation. It makes it nearly impossible for people who have legitimate but bridgeable differences to sit down at the same table and hash things out. It robs us of a rational and serious debate, the one we need to have about the very real and very big challenges facing this nation. It coarsens our culture, and at its worst, it can send signals to the most extreme elements of our society that perhaps violence is a justifiable response." BARACK OBAMA, remarks at University of Michigan, May 1, 2010 "We do not have to think that human nature is perfect for us to still believe that the human condition can be perfected. We do not have to live in an idealized world to still reach for those ideals that will make it a better place. The non-violence practiced by men like Gandhi and King may not have been practical or possible in every circumstance, but the love that they preached -- their fundamental faith in human progress -- that must always be the North Star that guides us on our journey. For if we lose that faith -- if we dismiss it as silly or naïve; if we divorce it from the decisions that we make on issues of war and peace -- then we lose what's best about humanity. We lose our sense of possibility. We lose our moral compass." BARACK OBAMA, Nobel Lecture, Dec. 10, 2009

My brother is developmentally disabled and I can tell you it hurts him deeply when the word retard is used. It's no different than calling someone faggot, nigger, spic, kike, pape, and so forth. Politics aside, people should not be ridiculed because of their sexual orientation, ethnic origin, religion or disability. I enjoy reading everyone's posts on this thread. You are all very knowledgable. Fellow Democrats and Obama supporters, let's not discredit ourselves by personally attacking others for expressing their opinions and resorting to name calling. It makes us no better than those who do the same.

Hi Mary, we have the same band day and I'm also down 25 pounds. What's great is I'm not gaining it back like all the other times I've lost weight. It just keeps coming off -- little by little. Horray for us - keep up the good work!! :biggrin:

patsal, 55# is terrific! I do know how you feel though. When I was stuck for weeks I started thinking this wasn't going to work. I guess our bodies are just finicky. Any day now yours will decide to let go of some more pounds!

I was camping and a kid from the next camp site kept racing his motorcycle through the middle of our camp site. I went over to the other camp site and asked the adults if they would please tell him to stop that. One guy said, "Just look at you - no wonder your so unhappy." My self esteem was in the bucket for a week.