Cleo's Mom

And I never named names as to who said what - that is up to each person to do their own research in the threads and posts to find the source. Didn't take me long.

Then why don't you enlighten us all and tell us what post you were referring to. It still doesn't change the comments that were made about the post I posted - even if your comments were about another post - obviously I wasn't the only one who thought it was her post @blacktee92675. And I stand by what I said above with regard to what was said to "4 weeks out and depressed" and the insensitive comments made to her. That you were referring to a different post doesn't change that.

Yes, people said that stuff. Yes, typed out. There are lots of people on here who are depressed before and after surgery. Depression after surgery is well documented. I might add that many gave her some very good suggestions and advice and were civil while doing so. Dare I use the word "nice" (it is subjective, you know). They were sensitive to her dilemma. Some had been there themselves. They did not have to defend their comments or replies.

Here is the original post that was the cause of this thread starting: Posted March 14, 2015 - 2:39 PM #1 I have been down lately, and questioning my choice. When I go there, I realize that there is no going back. Stomach is gone, can't come back. Then I am even more depressed. food, food everywhere, and am not allowed to eat it. I think of all the things that I have enjoyed, and wonder if I will ever make the transition to enjoyment elsewhere. I feel like such a "weirdo" not being able to eat a typical, "normal" portion. I get a kids meal and can eat less than half. I keep telling everyone that this won't be forever, but I really don't know if that is true. This week I have "only" lost 2 lbs. I question if it is because I have added "real" food to my diet. Then I know how rediculous this is, since I have only added the average of 300 - 400 calories. Then I wonder if I am in "starvation mode." Does that happen with wls She says she is depressed over the loss of her stomach, not being able to eat normal portions - in other words - she is having some doubts and feeling depressed about her choice. This is perfectly normal. Many who go through WLS experience this sense of loss and frustration. She later clarified that it was a Red Robin kids meal of chicken skewers and steamed broccoli but some jumped to conclusions (a new thread she started where she explained again). But here is what she got in return about the comments made to her post(s): -She is thin skinned -Overly affected (by comments) -Too fragile -Comments affected her stability -Such an emotional reaction -Weak minded -Mental health not up to par -Uncontrollable bout of depression (about comments) -Off kilter -Can't handle the heat then get out of the kitchen -Depressed because someone said something mean. -If the only thing you have ever or ever will love is fast food then, yeah, you made the wrong choice. IS EATING ALL YOU EVER DID? or think about life at McDonald's with a kids meal and pout. -I suggest you go back to your surgeon and have them immediately reattach your stomach. -She had surgery just a few weeks ago and you think she should just go ahead and have it - why don't you just drive her McDonald's while you're at it? Wow! There is nothing in her post that even remotely comes close to the inaccurate, not to mention insensitive comments that were made. She was not depressed over comments but over the loss of her stomach and the loss of food and fearful she would never eat normal foods again. But just take a look at the comments she got and didn't deserve. And to make matters worse, those who made them defend them and if someone is insulted by them (she didn't even say that) then of course that's their fault because they're....well see above

I have been posting on the sleeve forum as I currently have the band (2008) and hate it and am considering revision. Let me say on here what I said on there. ALL WLS IS A CRAP SHOOT. You aren't going to know how you do with it (even if you comply) until you have it. You will find those who hate their WLS and have complications. You will also find those who love their WLS and have been very successful. My band never did one thing it was promoted as doing. It never allowed me to feel satisfied. It was like that big empty stomach below was saying "Hey, I'm still hungry - feed me" but I was physically unable to eat more due to pressure/pain if I did. So, for me the band was the worst of both worlds (didn't help me to lose weight, didn't provide satiety and was always hungry). Plus I had a major stuck episode (2009) that took me to the ER. I am sure getting shot couldn't be more painful. I couldn't even talk. If this happens to you - you will definitely question your choice. I had all the fill removed then. Had I known this was how the band would be for me do you think I would have gotten it? But we don't know until after it's done. So, all WLS is a risk (I'm not talking surgical risk) as to whether it will be successful for you. I can so identify with those who say the same thing I have said. But there are also many who just love their band and have been very successful. It's a tough choice but I would never encourage anyone to have the band based on my results. Plus there are some surgeons who don't do the band anymore and Allergan has gone out of the band business. You have to ask yourself why this is. Plus research has shown that the band is the least effective WLS for long term weight loss (keeping it off) and about 50% eventually have theirs removed. Please don't kill the messenger!

No, I'm not a therapist. But thank you for this very insightful post. And I wish you the best of luck with your MS because I think I've read where they're making some progress with medications. I've also heard some things about a gluten free diet helping but I'm sure you've heard/read it all. Good luck.

@@heynowkc Great post. You hit the nail on the head for all the relevant points previously discussed. And you made excellent points of your own. Good for you. I couldn't agree more. Thanks for your post. :)

If you have NEVER fallen off the wagon or done something "against the rules" during this journey then that makes you perfect. If you have then that makes you imperfect. You are one or the other. You've either done it or you haven't. If the perfect people who have "never done that" (gone off the wagon even a little) feel patronized, please feel free to tell me.

LOL! Re definitions, you might wish to look up the definition of "irony" and then re-read your own post (above). But seriously, folks ... we're not all going to agree about what's "rude" and what's normal back-and-forth on an internet message board. Although we all speak English, the members of this board enjoy significant cultural (and ideological and political and religious) differences. Peace out. Irony definition: the expression of one's meaning by using language that normally signifies the opposite, typically for humorous or emphatic effect. Nope, don't see that here. I didn't insult and certainly didn't bully anyone by quoting a well known phrase (unnecessarily altered somewhat by the poster) that was put on this thread. Like I said, those who post kindly never have to defend themselves. Isn't it funny how differently we all see things? I remember a poster who, not too long ago, went into a thread, interrupted an intelligent discussion about exercise by a few people who are trained athletes, called them a few choice names, and then started not one but TWO flounce threads when he was called on it. I can't fathom how that was justifiable, but if you do, good for you! I must say that one of my biggest pet peeves is when someone goes into a thread and patronizes someone by saying "we've ALL done that" or "EVERYONE feels that way" or any other sweeping generalism. It makes my teeth hurt to keep my mouth shut on those. Can you honestly speak for everyone? Huh? Uhm, ok. I don't know what "my way" and "your way" is, but thanks for giving me permission. Well, I guess you've been the perfect pre-op and post-op patient who has never once gone off the wagon so to speak. Or made any mistakes. Good for you. Any other perfect sleeve pre or post opt people? Feel free to tell us how to be perfect through out all of this journey. I am sure those who are imperfect could learn so much. However, I don't think those who are imperfect would view my remark as patronizing. Maybe a new thread could be started entitled "Perfect sleevers please step forward - those who have made mistakes need not post". Have a perfect day!!

Online Definiton:" Examples of cyberbullying include mean text messages or emails." I would add posts to that, too. And as someone on here said: "If the shoe fits feel free to lace that bitch up and wear it."

Wait, what?! You are the ultimate judge of who and what is rude? It's my opinion that what YOU think is rude and what I think is rude may be two totally different things. What makes your opinion of what is rude, FACT? Genuinely curious. Not trying to be "rude". Like the judge who was asked to define pornography said - "I'll know it when I see it". Same goes here. I'll know a rude comment when I see it and obviously the person(s) who complain about them do too. People who make them can continue ad infinitum, ad nauseum to try to defend them with all kinds of excuses about using back buttons, staying off here, freedom of speech and blaming the victim. Notice how no one has to defend nice, helpful, supportive comments? That speaks volumes. I disagree completely. You can't go from being the ultimate judge of what is or is not rude to "I'll know it when I see it". You don't know the intent behind the comment, you don't know the tone and you don't know the history of the poster or the reader. All of these factors play a HUGE part in the perception of the comments. Nice is kind of relative but helpful and supportive? Not so much. If I tell you I drank a few beers on Saturday, ate 2 donuts yesterday and am upset because I didn't lose any weight this weekend, and you say, "Oh HONEY! That's OK. You just get your cute little patoot back on the wagon and you will be fine..." , that is not helpful or supportive to me. If instead, you say, "What a dumbass decision. You should know better than that. Go back to your Protein, shake your ass in kickboxing a little extra, and don't whine about eating stupid s**t if you are going to make stupid decisions!", I would consider you helpful and supportive. You might not think so, someone delicate might not think so, but the first answer--the patronizing one-- will only help ME justify my actions and repeat my behaviors. I got fat justifying my bad behaviors because everyone was too "nice", "supportive" and "helpful" to give me the tough love I needed. I hate to break it to you, but you aren't the ultimate judge of what is kind, rude, helpful, supportive, snarky, etc., nor am I. Only the author of the post knows their intent. Everyone else is simply making the choice of how to perceive it, and whether to heed it, embrace it, ignore it and/or be "devastated" (yes, that was said the other day) by it. If the reader finds it offensive or rude enough to start a new thread about it (or even just says they felt insulted) then I don't see how my finding it rude makes me the ultimate judge. I am entitled to call it like I see it, as are you. You can call it tough love, a needed kick in the butt or whatever euphemism you want. And I will call it what I want. If someone said they had beer and donuts and didn't lose weight I would say: " We've all done it. We've all strayed from what we should be doing. No one is perfect. You know what you need to do to start losing weight again - you've done it already. You've lost X pounds. Just get back on the wagon, drink your Water and protein, step up your exercise and forgive yourself. You'll get there. And the next time you're tempted to eat/drink something you shouldn't think of how bad you felt this time." I would never refer to someone's decision as dumbass or to shake their ass in kickboxing (you don't know the person's physical limitations). You don't know the background of the poster either - all the more reason not to make these kinds of comments. There are a few on here who support your way but many more who post my way. I stick to my way and you stick to yours.

Wait, what?! You are the ultimate judge of who and what is rude? It's my opinion that what YOU think is rude and what I think is rude may be two totally different things. What makes your opinion of what is rude, FACT? Genuinely curious. Not trying to be "rude". Like the judge who was asked to define pornography said - "I'll know it when I see it". Same goes here. I'll know a rude comment when I see it and obviously the person(s) who complain about them do too. People who make them can continue ad infinitum, ad nauseum to try to defend them with all kinds of excuses about using back buttons, staying off here, freedom of speech and blaming the victim. Notice how no one has to defend nice, helpful, supportive comments? That speaks volumes.

Bullies abound in the anonymity of the internet. There are cases where those bullied online have committed suicide. Bullies should not be tolerated on here. Those on here all suffer/suffered from obesity. They know all about face to face ugly, rude and insensitive comments. They have no more reason to accept them on here than they did in person. The fact that they call out those bullies on here who are rude, harsh, insensitive or just plain mean does not make them "thin skinned" or "weak minded". I don't recall anyone saying they were "absolutely devastated" or went into "an uncontrollable bout of depression" over comments on here. And if a person is hurt and upset by a remark that does not disqualify them from seeking WLS. That's called being human. Don't hide behind the anonymity of your hurtful remarks and then blame the person they were aimed at. How hard is it to give your advice in a nice way? Apparently hard for some. Don't forget where you came from. You weren't a perfect person before WLS and you certainly aren't the perfect post-surgical person either.

This is supposed to be a forum where you get information, tell you stories of success (or failures) and get support. People who are struggling are looking for support and some good suggestions to help them. There is absolutely NO GOOD REASON to do that in any way but a nice, polite, supportive way. The whole thing about "free speech" is just an excuse for some to be rude. Yes, anyone has the right to be on here and voice their opinion and anyone else has the right to call them out on being rude. It reminds me of blaming the victim (in this case calling them thin skinned) - remember all the fat jokes that we were supposed to laugh at because if we didn't then we "couldn't take a joke"? I call it like I see it and rude is rude. Don't try to dress it up as tough love or blame the person it is directed at.

I was told no NSAIDs for life. I am 64 and have chronic back conditions as well as arthritis - so Tylenol doesn't work. One factor in my consideration of the sleeve. I was told that NSAIDs (yes, aspirin is one) can cause ulcers and thin the lining of the stomach. But each person has to make the decision for themselves and based on what their doctor says. I have had the lap band since 2008 and use NSAIDS regularly, have had follow up endoscopies (everything is fine) and have never had a problem nor was I told I couldn't use NSAIDS after the band.

I am an assertive person who sticks up for myself and others who I feel have been unfairly criticized. There are ways to tell someone you think they're on the wrong track. Insulting them in a way that makes you sound superior is not the way. Offer practical suggestions or things others have used that have worked. No one expects rainbows and butterflies and while this is if public forum with freedom of speech (an oft used excuse to be rude) there are ways to get your point across. @@JamieLogical does this very well. She's one of the better posters. I've been on these forums for almost 4.5 years - back when it was only the lap band forum. I've seen it all - including fights that caused people to leave. I hope that doesn't happen here.

Thanks

Tech question - how do you do that whole @ thing with the posters name. I am not tech savvy. lol - Thanks. As to the other part of your post. I don't see why anyone on here has the right to be judgmental or mean. Everyone on here is here for the same reason - obesity. And not one of the sleevers is a perfect post-surgery candidate. No one is going to put a tiara on their head. So give some sound advice, maybe some sympathy and be helpful. If you can't do that then don't post, IMO.

Most people who post on here are nice, supportive and offer practical and helpful suggestions when someone is struggling with something. Once in awhile there are those who are very judgmental and have an almost superior attitude if you stray from what they think is the set in stone guidelines. They tend to forget where they came from. If they had WLS then they too had a lot of problems. I doubt any one of them was the perfect post-surgery patient.

If someone has severe GERD and/or Barrett's esophagus, needs to take NSAIDS for a medical condition - these can all be reasons to recommend the by pass over the sleeve. How do you revise from the sleeve to a mini bypass?

If I were you I would go with the gastric by-pass. It often eliminates GERD and Barrett's esophagus is nothing to fool around with. I know that only a very small percentage who have it go on to develop esophageal cancer - but if you're one of them what does that statistic matter? That is what happened to my husband, he had Barrett's esophagus and got yearly endoscopies and biopsies. One year - no dysplasia, the next - cancer and two years later he died, despite catching it early. You need to google "gastric sleeve and esophageal cancer" and look at the risks. Esophageal cancer is one of the fastest rising cancers and very difficult to treat. This is not meant to scare you but it is well known that the sleeve can worsen GERD. I wouldn't take that risk despite what the manometry test shows. I think the gastric by-pass is a much safer option based on your current medical conditions. But you are the one who needs to make the decision along with your doctors, but I would ask them the tough questions about treating your Barrett's now (they have methods for removing it) and what can happen to it if your GERD worsens?

My husband loved me when we married and I weighed 122 lbs and continued to love me as I put on over 100 pounds in the next 32 years. He never once, not once, made a comment to me about my weight. I beat myself up plenty, though. He supported me as I struggled with every diet and exercise program. He supported me when I got breast cancer and I supported him when he got terminal cancer and took care of him until his death. That is what a marriage is supposed to be - for better or worse. Sorry, I just don't buy that he is bullying you out of love or fear. That's not his job as a husband - to nag you about exercising. His job is to support you. And I definitely would not be getting up at the crack of dawn to prove anything to him. He's not there to give you orders and you follow them. He's not your father and you're not a child. If he wants to motivate you - tell him to be supportive of your decisions. You're an adult - you can make decisions. If you lose the weight, like I said, you'll still be left with a husband who is a bully. Then what will he nag you about? Every food choice you make? You took the easy way out? He sounds like a very controlling person. You are your own person. Make this decision for or against surgery for YOU - not for him.

You asked for advice as to what to do so I will offer some: 1) Find a therapist for yourself who can give you further advice about yourself and your marriage. 2) I see you as someone who is being verbally abused in your marriage. Bullied by your husband. That is not okay. It is never okay. 3) I hesitate to recommend marriage counselors because I don't often see them as very effective, but you could look into that possibility. 4) Next time your bully husband says "What exercise are you going to do today" - tell him obesity is a disease and you are looking for ways to cure this disease and surgery is an option. He wouldn't object to a person getting heart surgery if they needed heart by-pass. 5) Tell him the kids need to see a husband and father who is supportive and not verbally abusive to their mother. 6) You seem afraid of your husband. Contact a domestic abuse hotline and ask for advice. Verbal abuse counts too. 7) If you have somewhere to go - like family - consider a separation. Let him figure out what to do with the kids for half the time. Your marriage is the issue here, not your weight. You could lose all of your excess weight and guess what? You'd still be married to a bully. I know some of this is easy for me to say. I'm a very assertive person who is not intimidated by anyone. For stay at home moms who have no other income except from the husband/father and nowhere else to go I know it is difficult to leave an abusive relationship. Because whether you admit it or not that's what you're in. Why won't your insurance pay for this? Why don't you look into getting Obamacare just for yourself? It's subsidized for 80% of the people who apply. Maybe find a part time job in the evenings to help pay for it. Your post really touched me and I hope you find the courage to do what is right for you.

I am still on the fence too. You will find no shortage of stories on here about remarkable progress with the sleeve and how people just love it. Co-morbidities reversed or gone, being able to do things they couldn't do before. Being healthy. However, and here is the caveat: WLS is a crap shoot. You don't know what your results will be until after you have it. Will you be a successful one? One who can eat most any food but just smaller quantities or the one who is in pain for 2 hours from a crouton? One who will have to drink most meals and eat mostly Protein - with few carbs - fruits and veggies (based on your surgeons recommendation). I have read all this on here and everything in between while I make my decision. Also be aware - this might not matter to you now if you're young - but most surgeons don't allow NSAIDS for life - and when you get older and develop conditions like arthritis you won't be able to take NSAIDS for it. GERD can be problematic with the sleeve. It got worse for some who had it prior to surgery or developed in some who didn't. Again, many will be taking medication for this for life. Most posts on here talk about the amount of Water and protein that is required daily for success. Plus Vitamins and minerals. All WLS requires a great deal of compliance. But like I said it's a crap shoot. I know, I went through all this with the band and I hate it. It has never done one thing it was promoted as doing. Now I have it and it is unfilled. Not sure of the revision surgery, though. Good luck in making your decision. There is no shortage of information on here. Look over all of it - good and bad - to help you decide.

I think what was offensive was that he implied that being a full time homemaker (usually with kids) is not a full time job like his paid one is. Therefore they should have all the time in the world to log food in between being a cook, grocery shopper, diaper changer, chauffer, cleaning lady, doing laundry, helping with homework and spending quality time with their child(ren).