Cleo's Mom

I read somewhere that weight loss is 80% diet and 20% exercise. After dieting for over 30 years and exercising the last 10-15, I would agree. Each of us has to look at our reasons for eating the way we do. I think we can all agree that everyone (thin or obese) can eat when they're not hungry. That's not a characteristic unique to obese people. I am a volume eater. It takes a lot of food for me to reach satiety. And yes, I do eat sometimes when I am not hungry. The lap band never worked for me in providing satiety. The bottom stomach always seemed to be saying - hey, I'm empty and still hungry - feed me. But I couldn't eat anymore due to the pressure/restriction of the band. I am hoping the sleeve addresses those hunger signals. I have to adjust my exercise plan as I have arthritis and pain in my knees. But I will still do something. Just not pounding on the treadmill anymore. Each of our journeys is unique and should be tailored to our needs and what works for us to be successful (for example - I don't now nor ever will eat yogurt or cheese).

Research has shown that VSG can cause GERD or worsen it in those who already have it. Has anyone experienced this? How was it resolved? Did you also have a hiatal hernia and if so, was it repaired during surgery? I am having second thoughts about this surgery (band to sleeve) for this reason (I have been diagnosed with GERD, have a small hiatal hernia) and because of the NO NSAIDS for life - I have chronic back pain and arthritis (I am 64). All of this gives me pause for thought.

Anthony - I went through all this almost 8 years ago when I got the lap band. I was told there would be certain foods I wouldn't be able to eat. What I found was that EACH PERSON IS DIFFERENT and the foods they can and can't tolerate will become apparent through trial and error. What I found with me is that some of the healthy foods they said I could eat with the band - like chicken breast or apples with skins were among the most problematic for me. And surprisingly - crystal lite decaf ice tea if I drink too fast. Bread still can be so I watch how much I eat and toast is definitely better than bread. What I also found is that I could eat foods that aren't healthy - like slider foods. I KNOW the sleeve is different - anatomically and otherwise - from the band. But much of the advice given on here is a one size fits all - and it isn't. Someone said they couldn't tolerate meat. Others said they could do thin lite toasted bread. Each person is different and everyone has to make the healthy choices that they and their sleeve can tolerate. Remember - even healthy food can be problematic. But we have to eat something. We can't live off of Protein shakes and soft foods forever. At some point we need to be able to eat real food - healthy food. And I think that is very individual. For me - yogurt or cheese will never touch my lips. They never have and never will. Move on to plan B. lol

google "recipes with ingredients I have or like" and then list just those foods you like and see what comes up. I'm not a picky eater and I prefer vegetables to fruit but I don't eat cheese, yogurt, salmon or peppers. I can't eat (due to diverticulosis) corn, popcorn, nuts, seeds, etc.. So, I will have some things to overcome when I get to the soft food and full food phase.

Who is requiring the sleep study - the insurance company or the surgeon? Find out. Because if it's just for a diagnosis of sleep apnea to qualify for the surgery perhaps you can do an at home sleep study. I did some research online and the one I saw showed a device that fits around the forehead like a band and it monitors sleep patterns and is programmed to start at your bedtime and stop in the morning and is worn for 3 nights and then sent to the doctor for analysis. Do some research for sleep study doctors who will allow this - check with your surgeon and insurance company (who might allow it due to the substantial less cost). Good luck.

I don't have heartburn or symptoms of GERD now but I am on nexium and have been for years. I just don't want to develop it post-surgery.

I posted this somewhere - I thought here but couldn't find it. Sorry if this is posted elsewhere. Research has shown that GERD can develop or get worse after VSG. Has this happened to anyone? I am having second thoughts about this surgery due to this (going from band to sleeve)- having been diagnosed with GERD and small hiatal hernia years ago. I take nexium and have not had symptoms for years (well, I did with the band at one point but that is another story). Also the NO NSAIDS is problematic for me as I have chronic back pain and arthritis (I am 64). Not a lot of options for pain management that work.

My BMI is 35. My bariatric doctor said not to lose too much weight on the 6 month pre-op diet. My PCP, however, lectured me about how the insurance companies want to see that you can stick to a diet because if you can't do it before the surgery how are you going to do it after the surgery? So I have to keep a food/activity log (been there, done that- haven't we all?) Let's look at that logic for a minute: If you could stick to a weight loss/maintenance diet on your own you wouldn't be obese. Haven't we all been on every diet out there? And the whole purpose of WLS is to give you a tool that will help you eat the smaller amounts of healthy foods that will result in weight loss. My insurance requires co-morbidities with a BMI of 35 - right now they have me down for hypertension and elevated cholesterol but my bariatric doctor thinks they put more emphasis on sleep apnea and diabetes. So I will be getting the sleep study - which after my last one I said I would rather be dead than get another one. But here I am. Just think how much simpler all this would be if we all had the money to pay for the surgery ourselves and not depend on the logic of insurance companies.

I think that you need to get the Barrett's esophagus treated first. Please don't let the gastro or any other doctor tell you to do a "wait and see" approach with the Barrett's - which would be yearly endoscopies, biopsies, etc.. This approach does not address the Barrett's. They have made a lot of advances with removing the Barrett's with laser or other methods. Please do some research on this. While only a small number of people with Barrett's esophagus get esophageal cancer, I can tell you from personal experience that esophageal cancer is very, very difficult to treat with a poor prognosis. My husband died 9 years ago at age 56 of esophageal cancer after having Barrett's esophagus for many years and getting yearly scopes. They always did a biopsy so when the cancer was caught it was caught very early and they removed his whole esophagus and pulled up his stomach to form a new one. They were optimistic - they said it was stage 1. Two years later he died. I am not trying to scare you but don't let them tell you that only 1 or 2% of Barrett's turns into cancer. What if you are one of those where it does? What is the effective treatment? What is the prognosis? It is rarer for women to get esophageal cancer. I understand that. But if it were me I would find a doctor who would do whatever is necessary to get rid of the Barrett's portion of the esophagus by whatever means they are using these days and they have made a lot of progress in the 11 years since my husband was diagnosed. Good luck to you.

I am going from the band to the sleeve at some point in the future and am fortunate that my surgeon does not require the 2 week pre-op liquid diet. However, the surgeon who did my band did require it and I remember wanting to chew off my arm. One time one of my family members forgot to take home their leftover pizza and I went into the refrigerator and chewed the pizza and then spit it out in the garbage - just to have something solid in my mouth. But other than that - I didn't cheat. I never wanted to look at sugar free popsicles or chicken broth again!! When I went on the lap band forums I was surprised at how many weren't required to undergo the 2 week pre-op liquid diet and felt it was very unfair. Now I'm glad I'm one of them.

Thank you cowgirl for your sensible and assuring reply. I remember when I was on the lap band forum - there was one thread for those who were revising to the gastric sleeve. This was several years ago. I remember that almost every one who had this done said: "The sleeve is what I thought the band was going to be like." I had the same experience with the band as you did. It didn't do one thing it was promoted as doing. A year after it was put in, I had a severe stuck episode that required a trip to the ER. I have never been in such pain in my life. I was in so much pain I couldn't talk. I don't think getting shot could be more painful. The person who drove me had to talk for me. I was given dilaudid (sp?) and even that just dulled the pain a little. I was vomiting, too. That was 2009. All the fill was taken out of my band. However, I still get stuck sometimes but have learned how to make myself vomit. Not pleasant. There is no rhyme or reason as to when that will happen. One small bite of chicken breast could do it. Do you get stuck with the sleeve? I sure never want to go through that experience again. Btw, I love the picture of the horse. When I was a young girl I used to fantasize about a horse like that. Beautiful.

Let me add a few more questions to those of the OP (OldMomof3). I am getting the band removed and considering the sleeve at this point and going through all the requirements to do so. Here are some of my concerns: 1) I have severe back problems and arthritis for which Tylenol doesn't work. I am not inclined to use narcotics for pain relief but I won't be able to use NSAID's for the rest of my life. That's a major concern of mine. 2) I was not always an overweight or obese person. I grew up a skinny kid and ate whatever I liked - I have always had a huge appetite. When I didn't diet I was skinny. My dieting started in my late 20's after putting on about 10 or so pounds and from then on my weight just kept increasing. Lots of yo-yo dieting. Will this be any different? 3) I have always had a huge appetite and get hungry. And yes, I know the difference between real hunger and head hunger. Guess what I discovered? That food takes away hunger. But for me that requires more food than I should eat. What will the sleeve do to address that? 4) I've been exercising for close to 15 years. Started with treadmill and added aerobics and weight machines. Exercise is good for a lot of things and everyone should do it. It however is not that great for weight loss. It can help somewhat with metabolism. Better for other health reasons. Some people can lose a lot of weight from exercise - like runners. But not all of us are runners. So, does the sleeve affect hunger or only the amount of food you can eat but not really achieving satiety? That has been my problem with the band. Never had satiety. Ever. So much of what those who replied was said to those who struggled with the band back when this was the lap band forum. That the band didn't fail them, they failed the band. Then why are so many getting the band removed or not getting it put in in the first place? If the sleeve doesn't affect hunger and only provides restriction then I'm not sure it's the surgery for me. If the sleeve controls my hunger and the food I eat satisfies me, then it will work. If it doesn't then it will just be another failure, like the band.

I had an attack of diverticulitis the past August (2014). I knew I had diverticulosis - those pockets in your colon - due to having had 2 colonoscopies. I was sent to the ER where they diagnosed the inflammation/infection and a couple of weeks later I saw my PCP and told her and she asked what I might have eaten and I said a few days prior I had popcorn. She said about 50% of her patients who have this have eaten popcorn. She told me to stay away from corn, popcorn and seeds and nuts. There is conflicting data and opinions about food being the cause of these infections, though, with some saying it is not the cause. But you are right, those antibiotics are nasty. If you have to take them again, use the probiotic called florastor. Antibiotics don't kill it. Miss Mac - so glad and encouraged to hear that your surgery seems to have cured your problem.

Bewell, thanks for your kind words. I have to say that of everything you wrote what jumped out at me was that you were gardening today. I had to look where you live - is it Washington? Aren't you in the middle of winter? Here in PA we had a ton of snow today with high winds blowing it so that it caused white outs. Roads are a mess. So gardening is both far in my past and future. But I agree with you about all that you said. They keep coming up with new ways for WLS. I saw a show where these people had gastric tubes put up their noses and into their stomachs and walked around like that and then put some kind of liquid food through the tube. Pretty drastic but there was the doctor who did it standing by this decision. There aren't many things I can't do now with my weight but my knees are starting to hurt and I have an appointment with an orthopedic doctor coming up. I am going to Disney World for the first time in April with my daughter and grandson. I want to be able to walk comfortably. I have been diagnosed with slight effusion (Water on knee) and some osteopenia. I am hoping there is some temporary solution and that weight loss will be a better solution. However, I have to say, when I lost the 75 lbs during my lap band journey (mostly from the diets beforehand) none of my medical conditions improved. I am so glad you are doing well and getting around better and wish you nothing but the best in your journey. P.S. Our wind chill factor is something like 30 below. Please plant a flower for me. lol.

Bewell- thanks for your reply. I go back and forth with this being my second attempt at WLS. Am I too old? How well will I recover? But I too need to lose weight so that the excess weight doesn't cause any future health problems that would result in a restricted life or caregiver because I am a widow (my husband died 9 years ago of cancer)so I don't have anyone to take care of me. I do almost everything now, including exercising but I notice my knees are starting to hurt. Some of the problems are from my osteoporosis due to the cancer meds I was on for 10 years (breast cancer). I've been through a lot medically, so I hope this journey is worth it. I think years from now (maybe a hundred or more) people will say - "Wow, they used to cut away stomachs or reroute intestines for people to lose weight" because by then they will have discovered how to do gene therapy for everything including obesity, which is a disease. My whole family on both sides is obese. My paternal grandmother was born in the late 1890's when there was no fast food, prepared foods and all the foods we have loaded with fat, salt and sugar which gets blamed for our obesity epidemic. By all and any medical standards she was obese. She was a very large, eastern European woman and I take after her. I was a thin person once when I was young - in my twenties and then it was like a switch was flipped and the weight just kept coming on. Someday they will cure obesity but for now we just have the options we have.

I had the lap band surgery done in 2008. It never worked as promised for anything. It never caused me to have satiety. It just made it painful to eat. My surgeon was inexperienced and put a 4cc band in but told me it was 10cc so I was confused at to why 3cc of fill was causing me so many problems. He ordered an upper GI and found out why and immediately took out 1.5 cc (nothing was getting through). He had unrealistic expectations for weight loss (wanted 10-15 lbs in 3 weeks post surgery and without any fill). I left him and went to another doctor at another hospital who was satisfied with my weight loss at that point. However, I always had left shoulder pain (my original doctor never heard of this), I never felt satisfied, none of my vital statistics improved, and neither did my back pain. So, after a major stuck episode in 2009 that took me to the ER, all the fill was removed. And I only went back to the doctor I think once after that - haven't been back in years. I still get some stuck episodes but have learned how to make myself throw up. Very unpleasant. And the left shoulder pain. And the ability to eat the wrong but not the right foods. So, I want this band out and am taking the initial steps to do so, however, I don't know if I want to go through another surgery - gastric sleeve - at this time. After all the failures of the band I don't know if I have the motivation to not eat this type of food or that type (e.g. bread, Pasta, rice - you know all the stuff the band has problems with). I am 64 years old and although so many say the sleeve is what they thought the band would be - I am not sure at my age I can go through all this again. How much follow up is there to the sleeve? Do you lose your hair? Do you get stuck? Are there foods you can't eat (not because of calories but because of the sleeve)? I'm not looking for any easy way out - but I have to be honest that my motivation isn't what it was 7 years ago due to all the disappointments already. Any suggestions?

Here are my back problems: 40 degree scoliosis; degenerative joint disease, bulging and herniated discs; spinal stenosis. Pretty much a train wreck. Since I am not a candidate at this point for surgery to correct any of this - I just live with the pain as I get it. I also have arthritis of the hands and knees. Tylenol doesn't work. I will ask my PCP about tramidol and some of the other suggested non-NSAID pain pills.

Some background: 64 years old - had lap band 6.5 years ago - never worked for me. I hate it and want it out. Saw doctor today and she can remove band and do sleeve at same time. I have osteoporosis due to having taken femara (anti-estrogen) for 10 years following breast cancer. I also have severe back problems (you name it, I have it) that Aleve helps (Tylenol doesn't). Questions: 1) Do you get dumping syndrome with the sleeve? 2) Does the sleeve make osteoporosis worse? 3) What do you take for chronic pain (like arthritis or back pain) that works? 4) Do you suffer from Vitamin or mineral deficiency or poor nutrition from stomach being smaller? I'm sure I'll have other questions and will certainly ask the doctor, too. Thanks.

Thanks everyone for your answers. You all sound like you are doing great.

I just read through all my surgery stuff and it said no NSAIDS for the rest of my life. What am I supposed to do for my chronic back pain/ conditions and arthritis that don't respond to Tylenol? The amount and duration of Tylenol that I would have to take would surely cause liver damage over time. Has anyone else had this problem?

I met with my doctor today (this is not the doctor who placed the band) and she said she could do the removal of the band and revision to sleeve at the same time. I am required by my insurance to do the 6 months pre-op diet along with all the other testing required (psych eval; chest x-ray, sleep study, etc..). I feel a bit overwhelmed at this point. I mean I am 64 years old. Having lost around 75 pounds on the lap band journey (60 lbs. from 6 month dieting and 2 week liquid pre and 2 week liquid post op dieting) with only 15 pounds from the band. And I always felt hungry even though I couldn't eat more. It was like the bottom part of my stomach was saying - hey I'm empty - I need food in me. And indeed that is how a normal stomach works - when it is filled with food it stretches and sends the message to the brain - I'm full/satisfied. I NEVER got that with the band. Anyway, I have gained 30 lbs back and am at a BMI of 35. I am less inclined to be doing this for medical reasons as none of my medical conditions improved with my weight loss - particularly my severe back problems where all those doctors urged me to lose weight to help. It didn't. So, now I want to do it look thinner and look better and feel better. I guess I am just looking for words of encouragement that this is the right choice at my age. After all, this is elective surgery. Thanks! I also posted this under the other thread about the band removal and sleeve revision being done at the same time.

I met with my doctor today (this is not the doctor who placed the band) and she said she could do the removal of the band and revision to sleeve at the same time. I am required by my insurance to do the 6 months pre-op diet along with all the other testing required (psych eval; chest x-ray, sleep study, etc..). I feel a bit overwhelmed at this point. I mean I am 64 years old. Having lost around 75 pounds on the lap band journey (60 lbs. from 6 month dieting and 2 week liquid pre and 2 week liquid post op dieting) with only 15 pounds from the band. And I always felt hungry even though I couldn't eat more. It was like the bottom part of my stomach was saying - hey I'm empty - I need food in me. And indeed that is how a normal stomach works - when it is filled with food it stretches and sends the message to the brain - I'm full/satisfied. I NEVER got that with the band. Anyway, I have gained 30 lbs back and am at a BMI of 35. I am less inclined to be doing this for medical reasons as none of my medical conditions improved with my weight loss - particularly my severe back problems where all those doctors urged me to lose weight to help. It didn't. So, now I want to do it look thinner and look better and feel better. I guess I am just looking for words of encouragement that this is the right choice at my age. After all, this is elective surgery. Thanks!

I have no fill in my band. I am always hungry now, so what is the point of having this band in me? It caused nothing but problems when filled, never caused me to have satiety and even with no fill I still have shoulder pain, episodes of being stuck and it has never caused me to lose weight - filled or unfilled. I just want it out. Not sure of the sleeve yet. My appointment is next week but if the removal and sleeve requires two separate surgeries then I am inclined not to get the sleeve. I am tired of jumping through all the hoops.

Those who have come on R&R know that I am a political poster. I am an unapologetic, liberal leaning, progressive democrat. I have posted about many political topics but I would like to summarize my views. I support the middle class and working class. The union movement and the government programs that resulted from it helped create the middle class. And these people are largely democrats. The republicans have never done one thing for the middle class and everything that you enjoy in your standard of living and workplace is a result of democrats. I have said that there are 4 R's of republicanism: rich, racist, red-neck and religious right. That is not to say that everyone in the republican party is one of these. They aren't - but if you are one of these you are more likely to belong to the republican party than the democratic party. I had an entire thread about republican hypocrisy and not one post was refuted. Sure there are examples of democratic hypocrisy but not on the large scale as in the republican party. They will talk about cutting the deficit while raising the deficit with tax cuts for their wealthy donors. The new republican congress talks of nothing but cutting spending and the deficit when the american people are focused on the economy and jobs. That's because they have no jobs program and indeed their economic plan and spending cuts will cause a loss of 700,000 jobs and destroy this fragile economic recovery. While they are giving your tax money to oil companies and the rich, they are saying - hey look over here, it's really Social Security, funding for family planning or subsidies for home heating that is the problem. And people who are either in denial or just don't fact check will believe this. SS has NOT contributed one dime to the deficit. It has a 2.6 trillion dollar surplus and can pay out for the next 27 years. But you wouldn't know that listening to them. Medicare has been more of a problem because it is tied into the general rise in health care costs and rising premiums. People on the right advocate for smaller government, less spending, fewer regulations and less government in our lives - unless it's in a woman's body and those who can marry then they want a large federal footprint. De-regulation worked out really well with the economic crash of 2008, didn't it? And people (and states with republican governors) are okay with cuts in spending as long as it doesn't affect them (just the other guy). Those who think that they are self made and earned everything they have and need no help from the federal government can't get out of the house to work without all levels of government affecting the quality of their lives - from their clean air and Water, the inspected food they ate, the safety laws for their cars and the highways they drive on - and many many more. The middle class has been sinking for 30 years while the rich get richer. You are all working harder and actually making less (buying power). These are facts the right doesn't want to talk about. But the current line of thinking is to blame government, blame unions, blame public workers, blame teachers, the single mom,etc..These are not the problems. The problem is corporate america who owns you and their enormous influence on our government and our lives. They are the real enemy, not the government. They are laughing all the way to the bank because they have gotten working class people to take to the streets protesting a rise in estate taxes and hope you don't notice the power and money you have lost. So, I am wasting my valuable time on here. I have a lot of work to do as I am involved in local politics. We are starting on our 2012 campaign to re-elect Pres. Obama and I will direct my time and talents in that direction. .