If you are a godly person, if you believe in Jesus and try to live as he did by using him as an example to follow, even though you know you could never be perfect as he was perfect, and if you read the bible and pray and if you know right from wrong because of God's word to us which teaches righteousness, you will be persecuted by those who are unbelievers.

Sarah Palin is a godly woman of good character. She's not perfect for noone is, and she doesn't claim to be. But, she is honest, sincere, and has values that are upright. She is wise , gifted,and has virtue.The bible teaches that God lives within the believer. He dwells within them. Jesus said, "If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. Because you are my child, the world hates you. If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they would obey yours also. They will treat you this way because of my name. For they do not know the one who sent me. "John 15:18-21

I hope she is planning a run for the presidency. She will have my vote if she does.

There is a difference in self proclaiming to be a Chritian and really being one. "by their fruits you shall know them."

Well, then you should LOVE Obama. Here are a list of his "fruits":

So to inform you, please note the following articles that sum up some of what Barack has “done” in his last 11 years in public office. Considering that Obama may be the Democratic Nominee, I believe that it is important for you, as a public voice, to be informed:

His bold legislative work on the Illinois Death Penalty, and how he made a difference between life and death:

http://www.icadp.org/page236.html

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/11/12/obama.death.pena... /

His sponsorship of a bill that brought health insurance to 150,000, including 70,000 uninsured Children, again, during his time serving in the Illinois Statehouse:

http://factcheck.barackobama.com/factcheck/2007/12/14/f...

Ignoring key bill, Wash. Post' s Milbank attempted to refute Obama's statement that he "expanded health care in Illinois" | Media Matters for America

His work on both the Immigration bill during his time in the US senate and his sponsorship of Ethics legislation (something he did both while in the State House, and in the Senate) that called for some of the most impactful reform regarding lobbyists since Watergate (as he likes to term it):

http://factcheck.barackobama.com/factcheck/2007/12/14/f...

http://feingold.senate.gov/~feingold/releases/07/01/200...

Here’s a chart of many of his accomplishments during his 8 years in the Illinois state house -

and his sponsored and co sponsored Bills in the U.S. Senate.......which include worthwhile bills dealing with a wide range of issues, from Election reform bills to the Cooperative Proliferation Detection reduction Act (w/t Sen. Lugar) to Internet database transparency Act.

PolitiFact | Obama sponsored a bill that became law /

http://www.america.gov/st/washfile-english/2005/Novembe...

http://obama.senate.gov/press/060908-senate_passes_c /

POST-ELECTION FRUITS:

A week before he was sworn in, Obama jammed part two of the bank bailout down the throat of his own party — a $350 billion accomplishment.

Two days after he was sworn in, Obama banned the use of "harsh interrogation" and ordered the closing of Guantánamo.

A day later, Obama reversed George W. Bush's funding cutoff to overseas family planning organizations — saving millions of lives with the stroke of a pen.

Three days after that, Obama gave a green light to the California car-emissions standards that Bush had been blocking for six years — an important step on the road to cleaner air and a cooler planet.

Two weeks after that, Obama signed the stimulus bill — a $787 billion accomplishment.

Ten days after that, Obama formally announced America's withdrawal from Iraq.

A week later — we're in early March now — Obama erased Bush's decision to restrict federal funding for stem-cell research.

In April and June, Obama forced Chrysler and GM into bankruptcy.

In June, Obama reset the tone of our relations with the entire Arab world with a single speech — an accomplishment that the Bush administration failed to achieve despite a series of desperate PR moves (anyone remember Charlotte Beers?) and a "public diplomacy" budget of $1 billion a year.

Also in June, Obama unveiled the "Cash for Clunkers" program, a "socialist" giveaway that reanimated the corpse of our car industry — leading, for example, to the billion-dollar profit that Ford announced on Monday.

I haven't even mentioned Sonia Sotomayor, the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act, the order to release the torture memos, Obama's push for charter schools, his $288 billion tax cut, or the end of Bush's war on medical marijuana. Or the minor fact that he seems to have — with Bush's help, it must be said — stopped the financial collapse, revived the credit markets, and nudged the economy toward 3.5 percent growth in the last quarter.

Oh, and one more thing: President Obama is now a month or two from accomplishing the awesome and seemingly impossible task that eluded mighty presidents like FDR, LBJ, and WJC — health-care reform.

Obama's early returns also include a host of remarkably cautious and prudent national-security decisions that seem, these days, to have been completely forgotten:

Appointing a conservative Bush holdover like Robert Gates as Secretary of Defense.

Appointing an establishment centrist like Leon Panetta at CIA.

Appointing a hard-ass like Stanley McChrystal to head up our military forces in

Afghanistan, despite McChrystal's dubious involvement in torture and the cover-up of Pat Tillman's death.

Increasing the number of drone attacks on Al Qaeda — more in the last year than all the Bush years combined.

Reinstating, with tweaks, Bush's military tribunal system for Guantánamo prisoners.

Fighting, in another unexpected defense of a controversial Bush policy, lawsuits against the "warrantless wiretapping" program — as recently as this weekend with a decision that a leading civil liberties group called "extremely disappointing."

Sending, way back in February, seventeen thousand more soldiers to Afghanistan. As Fareed Zakaira recently pointed out, this was just three thousand fewer soldiers than Bush sent to Iraq for his famous "surge."

Read more: Obama Timeline - John H. Richardson's Timeline of Obama's First Year - Esquire

patty if you're going to post at LBT I have a right to address you, just as you have a right to respond to my posts. I was merely pointing out to others that it is beyond silly of me to spend the time because you are clearly not an open-minded person.

You not only are a hard-line extremist right winger, you are unwilling to listen to reason. Even when someone here makes a valid argument it's as if you are plugging your ears and going "lalalalalalalala... I can't heeer you!"

There have been some excellent posts and arguments made in the last couple of pages. Good for those posters!

The neat thing about you patty, is that you get a thread like this going and it generates a good deal of outrage and it gives your opposition an excellent opportunity to post lots of material that makes sense, and at the same time it allows everyone to see how transparent and stilted your arguments are.

Electrawomen and BJean you are fighting a losing battle. I tried to have a rational discussion with Patty but her responses showed her to be one of those overzealous Christians that seems to think all their beliefs are also Gods beliefs and its hard to have a rational discussion with a person who believes they have the same thoughts as God. :thumbup:

Well said TDSLF.

Patty, you cannot compare Palin and Obama because there is no comparison. She is an unemployed politician. He is the President of the United States of America.

Really? I didn't know that.:thumbup:

Electrawomen and BJean you are fighting a losing battle. I tried to have a rational discussion with Patty but her responses showed her to be one of those overzealous Christians that seems to think all their beliefs are also Gods beliefs and its hard to have a rational discussion with a person who believes they have the same thoughts as God. :thumbup:

All of my beliefs ARE God's beliefs. He guides what I believe in my life. His word is true and the Only truth as far as I'm concerned.

TheCutestFatty that's a point well taken.

It's the incredibly over-zealous fanatics that make the rest of us good Christians look bad.

(Kinda like the Al Queda vs. regular Muslims)

None of the accomplishments of Obama that you posted are accomplishments in my eyes.

"All of my beliefs ARE God's beliefs. He guides what I believe in my life. His word is true and the Only truth as far as I'm concerned."

I thank you Pattygreen for your response. I guess it just became extremely clear to me that you think you know what God would want and the rest of us should just go fly. But I have one more question. What makes you know, not think, God does not approve of Obama and what he is doing? See, I would never, ever think that I knew what God's plan was. I am humble that way. After you answer the above question. Ask yourself, who the hell are you to think YOU know GOD and what he may or may not want?

Oh I am not posting for Patty! She's clearly a fool. This information is for anyone else reading this thread who has a brain cell or two. :thumbup:

[cheers for TDSLF] It is an arrogant and ignorant man who thinks he knows the will of God.

God himself teaches that anyone can know him and his will. Just read the bible he left for you, and find out for yourself. The ignorant one is the one who ignores what he has to say.

You still have not answered the question with concrete answers. We all read the bible and try to live by it but no one should presume to know God and what he wants. You go too far in your rhetoric. You don't know God any better than the next HUMAN. So please recognize your limitations otherwise you are lost. But maybe you already are from this above statement............

More zealots using the Bible to preach hatred:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgJFcJjgPbk

And some Bible verses (these are for Patty because I wouldn't want her to ignore what god has to say)

Exodus 23:1

[ Laws of Justice and Mercy ] "Do not spread false reports. Do not help a wicked man by being a malicious witness.

Proverbs 16:28

A perverse man stirs up dissension, and a gossip separates close friends.

Proverbs 16:27-29

1 Timothy 5:13

Besides, they get into the habit of being idle and going about from house to house. And not only do they become idlers, but also gossips and busybodies, saying things they ought not to.

Matthew 23:27

...You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean. 28In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.

Luke 11:17

...Any kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and a house divided against itself will fall.

Genesis 21:23

Now swear to me here before God that you will not deal falsely with me or my children or my descendants. Show to me and the country where you are living as an alien the same kindness I have shown to you."

Psalm 26:4

I do not sit with deceitful men, nor do I consort with hypocrites;

Psalm 26:3-5

Matthew 6:5

[ Prayer ] "And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full.

Matthew 6:4-6

Matthew 7:5

You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.

Matthew 7:4-6

ESV Galatians 6:1 ¶ Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted. 2 Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ. 3 For if anyone thinks he is something, when he is nothing, he deceives himself.

Isaiha 65:5

Which say, Stand by thyself, come not near to me; for I am holier than thou. These are a smoke in my nose, a fire that burneth all the day.

1 Timothy 2:12

And I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she is to keep silent

1 Corinthians 14:38

If any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

Matthew 13:13-15

Therefore speak I to them in parables ... lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Edited December 8, 200916 yr by Electrawoman

You still have not answered the question with concrete answers. We all read the bible and try to live by it but no one should presume to know God and what he wants. You go too far in your rhetoric. You don't know God any better than the next HUMAN. So please recognize your limitations otherwise you are lost. But maybe you already are from this above statement............

What's the question you say I am not answering. I will try to answer it.

BTW, Everyone can know God and what he wants.

And how do you know whether I know God better than the next human or not? You have no clue about my relationship with him. It is very close. I do know him, and very, very well for that matter.

"All of my beliefs ARE God's beliefs. He guides what I believe in my life. His word is true and the Only truth as far as I'm concerned."

I thank you Pattygreen for your response. I guess it just became extremely clear to me that you think you know what God would want and the rest of us should just go fly. But I have one more question. What makes you know, not think, God does not approve of Obama and what he is doing? See, I would never, ever think that I knew what God's plan was. I am humble that way. After you answer the above question. Ask yourself, who the hell are you to think YOU know GOD and what he may or may not want?

..........................................................................................

I don't think I know what God would want, I know I know what God would want. You , and anyone else, can know also. He gave us his words in the bible to read so we can understand him and know what he wants.

God does not keep his children in the dark about who he is and what he desires.

Isn't it true that if someone asks you "what do you think your mom would say about this or that?" You could give her exact answer. Or if your child, someone you were close with and knew very well, was asked a question you would know how to answer for them? Well, that's how I know what God would think about an issue. I have gotten to know him over the past 27 years of my life very well. He's my Father and I know what he would approve of and what he wouldn't approve of. His answers to every dilemma is in the book.

What is Obama's stand on abortion? It's not the same as Gods, for God says it is wrong.

What is his stand on homosexuality? It's not the same as Gods, for God says it is a sin for 2 people of the same sex to have sex together.

What is his stand on economics? God says that those who don't work shouldn't eat, yet Obama loves to give away our money to those who wont work. (I'm not talking about the handicapped or disabled here, I'm talking about the lazy)

I could go on, but you get it. This is how I know.