Hey guys,

Are you up for a little debate? ok, here it goes....I'm a Christian, proud and happy to be one, I love God/ Christ and I humble myself to Him because I want to and I like it, I enjoy that humbling experience... and I do have other reasons to believe........

Of course, I know that not everyone agrees with me but I respect everyone's opinions, yes.... even if we can't agree, LOL!

I normally don't listen to celebrities talking about religion or politics, in my opinion, they show ignorance most of the times, specially when they talk about politics.... but an article popped up in MSN about Brad Pitt and I do admire his humanitarian work, so I read it , and I thought it was interesting what Brad Pitt said about his view/feelings on religion.... I personaly agree that religion in general is good....no matter what yours is... what do you think?

The following is the article:

"Religion works, Brad goes on. I know there's comfort there, a crash pad. It's something to explain the world and tell you there is something bigger than you, and it is going to be all right in the end. It works because it's comforting. I grew up believing in it, and it worked for me in whatever my little personal high school crisis was, but it didn't last for me. I didn't understand this idea of a God who says, 'You have to acknowledge me. You have to say that I'm the best, and then I'll give you eternal happiness. If you won't, then you don't get it!' It seemed to be about ego. I can't see God operating from ego, so it made no sense to me."

Thanks for reading guys, later.....

Helen;)

wow.....

I was raised in a large family of girls and my dad took great pleasure in keeping the Santa, tooth fairy and so forth traditions. He was also the most honest man I knew and I miss him terribly.

Kids should be given whatever they need, to grow into creative and confident people. I needed Santa and the tooth fairy.

Hmm I don't agree with that.

Holidays made by man does not make kids creative and confident.

Than stating they have biblical meaning and they don't.

Comercialized celebrations for the sake of profit.

Don't get me wrong we celebrated as well.

The older I get and knowing the truth makes it harder every year.

I know alot of christians who don't Celebrate holidays.

It's fun but it's not true.

Especially thanksgiving!

Celebrating the misfortune of native americans with a turkey?

Someone has to agree with me here!

LJ, you know what I just realized? (And this isn't an attack, so calm down.) You speak in haiku. Or like the boss from That 70s Show. Not sure which, honestly.

Actually, I was looking for a lame example intentionally. It was just going to show my point.

Without the life changing event you could not just "choose" to stop believing. Well, the same holds true for me. Without some evidence or life changing event, I can't just "choose" to believe.

People make these comments ALL the darn time, that I should just choose to believe. It simply isn't possible. I could SAY I believe, I could make that claim, but it wouldn't be true.

Well, in my opinion, you can't choose to believe because you need proof and I can choose because I don't need or care for proof, but I still feel it's a choice based on your own life experiences...at least in my case...

LJ, you know what I just realized? (And this isn't an attack, so calm down.) You speak in haiku. Or like the boss from That 70s Show. Not sure which, honestly.

I am fairly certian that one can use her posts to solve the general quintic equation in radicals. :cry

LJ, you know what I just realized? (And this isn't an attack, so calm down.) You speak in haiku. Or like the boss from That 70s Show. Not sure which, honestly.

I'm a poet.

I'm not speaking.

I'm typing.

No response to what I posted?

I am fairly certian that one can use her posts to solve the general quintic equation in radicals. :cry

Sarcasm +truth=denial.

You are not funny at all.

I'm not much of a debater... especially about religion because people tend to get really upset and because I am a Christian who knows I can't live without Christ, I believe that turning a debate into an arguement is not what Christ would have us to do. I haven't read all of this thread...and what I have read.. doesn't seem to be any arguing going on.. I just wanted to insert some historical information.... This following does NOT come from the bible. These are real documented humans who wrote about Jesus, while He lived.... I am BY FAR, NOT a histoty buff... aamof... I can't stand listening to history but there are so many people who think Christians just believe for a feel good.. or believe because someone told them to... but there is proof that Christ lived....

Let’s go back in time and call some witnesses and see what they have to say

about this man named JESUS!

Cornelius Tacitus

A Roman historian name Cornelius Tacitus lived from A.D. 55 to A.D. 120. His

moral character and integrity marked him by many scholars as a great Roman

historian. In one of his great historical works known as the Annals, Tacitus

wrote about Jesus and the persecution of the Christians by the Roman emporer

Nero. Tacitus writes, "But not all the relief that could come from man, not

all the bounties that the prince could bestow, not all the atonements which

could be presented to the gods, availed to relieve Nero from the infamy of

being believed to have ordered the conflagration, the fire of Rome. Hence to

suppress the rumor, he falsely charged with the guilt, and punished with the

most exquisite tortures, the persons commonly called Christians, who were

hated for their enormities. Christ, the founder of the name, was put to death

by Pontius Pilate, procurator of Judea in the reign of Tiberius: but the

pernicious superstition, repressed for a time, broke out again, not only

through Judea, where the mischief originated, but through the city of Rome

also." (Annals XV, 44)

In this historical recount, Tacitus affirms several facts set forth in the

Bible about Jesus. First, he affirms that Jesus existed as a real person.

Secondly, Tacitus states that the Christian movement was named after Christ

or "Christus" (Christus was a common error in spelling made by many secular

historians of the day). Thirdly, he affirms that Jesus Christ was crucified in

Judea by Pontius Pilate during the reign of Tiberius. Lastly, Tacitus mentions

the "pernicious superstition", or the reported resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Suetonius

Suetonius, another Roman historian spoke of Christ’s existence in his work

Life of Claudius in which he stated, "As the Jews were making constant

disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus (another misspelling of Christ),

he [Claudius] expelled them from Rome. Suetonius verified that Jesus was a

real person, and that his followers [Christians] believed that he had been

resurrected from the dead "mischievous superstition".

Lucian of Samosata

Lucian of Samosata, a Greek writer in the second century also affirmed the

real and historical existence of Jesus Christ. He wrote, "The Christians, you

know, worship a man to this day-the distinguished personage [Jesus] who

introduced their novel rites, and was crucified on that account."

Pliny the Younger

Pliny the Younger was the governor of Bithynia in Asia Minor in A.D. 112. In a

letter to the emporer Trajan, Pliny explained that he had been killing mass

numbers of Christians, men, women and children alike. In his letter he stated

that he "made them curse Christ, which a genuine Christian cannot be induced

to do."

Pliny the Younger demonstrates through his own words that Christ was real and

that the Christians of that early period recognized that. Not only does the

evidence demonstrate that Christ was real, but that the Roman governor Pliny

was persecuting Christians for their belief in him and their recognition of

Jesus as "a god".

Let’s look at some Secular Writings and one more non-biblical character in

reference to Jesus

Jesus is historically referenced in the works of the Babylonian Talmud as well

as the writings of the Jewish historian, Josephus. What is the Talmud and who

is Josephus?

The Talmud is a collection of Jewish laws and traditions considered by Jewish

authorities to be Judaism’s holiest collection of books. The Jewish Scribes

claim the Talmud is partly a collection of traditions Moses gave them in oral

form consisting of the Mishnah and the Gemara. The Mishnah is the section of

the Talmud that consists of the oral laws and the Gemara is made up teachings

and commentaries on the oral laws of the Mishnah. According to the writings

contained within the Talmud, its authority transcends that of the Torah (Old

Testament of the Bible).

The Talmud records historical evidence concerning the virgin birth, the

crucifixion, and the disciples of Jesus Christ.

The Talmud states, "It has been taught: On the eve of Passover they hanged

Yeshu (Jesus).

The word "Yeshu" translates into the English name Jesus. It is reported that

in some versions, this text reads "Yeshu the Nazarene". This Jewish

description of the crucifixion of Christ confirms that Jesus did exist in

history as a religious leader and teacher, one who did miracles, was charged

by his own people and then handed over to be crucified on the cross by the

Roman government. This passage demonstrates and confirms the historical

presence and facts concerning the crucifixion of Jesus Christ.

Who was Josephus? Josephus ben Matthias, born only a few years after the death

and resurrection of Christ was a religious politician and Jew.

Josephus was a Jewish historian in the employ of the Roman emperor, and after

gaining favor in the eyes of the emperor Flavius was actually given his name.

Hence, he became Flavius Josephus and during his employ composed two large

works: The Jewish War and The Jewish Antiquities.

In The Jewish Antiquities, a passage reads, "Now there was about this time

Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of

wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He

drew over to him both many of the Jews, and many of the Gentiles. He was the

Christ, and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men among us, had

condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake

him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; as the divine prophets

had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And

the tribe of Christians so named from him are not extinct at this day."

As Josh McDowell states, "So even the great first-century Jewish historian

Josephus, writing just a little more than half a century after Jesus’ life and

crucifixion, attests to the truth that Jesus was not a figment of the church’s

imagination but a real historical figure."

Even more important that these secular writings and witnesses are the

scriptural evidences given to us that Jesus is the Christ.

Yes it's easy for Christian's to believe in God, based on faith and it's also understandable that non believes think faith is hog wash. One thing I don't understand is how a person can downplay faith that God created the universe... but they have believe that the earth just began on its on? To me it takes more faith to believe that all this just happened... than it does that someone created it.

I'm a poet.

I'm not speaking.

I'm typing.

No response to what I posted?

Which post?

I am fairly certian that one can use her posts to solve the general quintic equation in radicals. :cry

Well, I have to disagree with you not being funny, and I urge everyone that may think Derrick is not funny to read the Presidential Candidates post on Rants.... it doesn't matter if you agree or not is plain and simple hilarious!!!!!!!

Well, in my opinion, you can't choose to believe because you need proof and I can choose because I don't need or care for proof, but I still feel it's a choice based on your own life experiences...at least in my case...

For me and me alone, faith isn't something to have pride in.

I don't even have faith that a god of any sort exists so I would still be a liar. But according to some within Christianity the dishonesty and pretending to have faith is better than honesty.

Well, I have to disagree with you not being funny, and I urge everyone that may think Derrick is not funny to read the Presidential Candidates post on Rants.... it doesn't matter if you agree or not is plain and simple hilarious!!!!!!!

I have to agree with you, Derick's LBT's funny man. Even if you don't agree with his POV, he can still crack you up. :clap2:

I'm not much of a debater... especially about religion because people tend to get really upset and because I am a Christian who knows I can't live without Christ, I believe that turning a debate into an arguement is not what Christ would have us to do. I haven't read all of this thread...and what I have read.. doesn't seem to be any arguing going on.. I just wanted to insert some historical information.... This following does NOT come from the bible. These are real documented humans who wrote about Jesus, while He lived.... I am BY FAR, NOT a histoty buff... aamof... I can't stand listening to history but there are so many people who think Christians just believe for a feel good.. or believe because someone told them to... but there is proof that Christ lived....

Let’s go back in time and call some witnesses and see what they have to say

about this man named JESUS!

Cornelius Tacitus

A Roman historian name Cornelius Tacitus lived from A.D. 55 to A.D. 120. His

moral character and integrity marked him by many scholars as a great Roman

historian. In one of his great historical works known as the Annals, Tacitus

wrote about Jesus and the persecution of the Christians by the Roman emporer

Nero. Tacitus writes, "But not all the relief that could come from man, not

all the bounties that the prince could bestow, not all the atonements which

could be presented to the gods, availed to relieve Nero from the infamy of

being believed to have ordered the conflagration, the fire of Rome. Hence to

suppress the rumor, he falsely charged with the guilt, and punished with the

most exquisite tortures, the persons commonly called Christians, who were

hated for their enormities. Christ, the founder of the name, was put to death

by Pontius Pilate, procurator of Judea in the reign of Tiberius: but the

pernicious superstition, repressed for a time, broke out again, not only

through Judea, where the mischief originated, but through the city of Rome

also." (Annals XV, 44)

In this historical recount, Tacitus affirms several facts set forth in the

Bible about Jesus. First, he affirms that Jesus existed as a real person.

Secondly, Tacitus states that the Christian movement was named after Christ

or "Christus" (Christus was a common error in spelling made by many secular

historians of the day). Thirdly, he affirms that Jesus Christ was crucified in

Judea by Pontius Pilate during the reign of Tiberius. Lastly, Tacitus mentions

the "pernicious superstition", or the reported resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Suetonius

Suetonius, another Roman historian spoke of Christ’s existence in his work

Life of Claudius in which he stated, "As the Jews were making constant

disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus (another misspelling of Christ),

he [Claudius] expelled them from Rome. Suetonius verified that Jesus was a

real person, and that his followers [Christians] believed that he had been

resurrected from the dead "mischievous superstition".

Lucian of Samosata

Lucian of Samosata, a Greek writer in the second century also affirmed the

real and historical existence of Jesus Christ. He wrote, "The Christians, you

know, worship a man to this day-the distinguished personage [Jesus] who

introduced their novel rites, and was crucified on that account."

Pliny the Younger

Pliny the Younger was the governor of Bithynia in Asia Minor in A.D. 112. In a

letter to the emporer Trajan, Pliny explained that he had been killing mass

numbers of Christians, men, women and children alike. In his letter he stated

that he "made them curse Christ, which a genuine Christian cannot be induced

to do."

Pliny the Younger demonstrates through his own words that Christ was real and

that the Christians of that early period recognized that. Not only does the

evidence demonstrate that Christ was real, but that the Roman governor Pliny

was persecuting Christians for their belief in him and their recognition of

Jesus as "a god".

Let’s look at some Secular Writings and one more non-biblical character in

reference to Jesus

Jesus is historically referenced in the works of the Babylonian Talmud as well

as the writings of the Jewish historian, Josephus. What is the Talmud and who

is Josephus?

The Talmud is a collection of Jewish laws and traditions considered by Jewish

authorities to be Judaism’s holiest collection of books. The Jewish Scribes

claim the Talmud is partly a collection of traditions Moses gave them in oral

form consisting of the Mishnah and the Gemara. The Mishnah is the section of

the Talmud that consists of the oral laws and the Gemara is made up teachings

and commentaries on the oral laws of the Mishnah. According to the writings

contained within the Talmud, its authority transcends that of the Torah (Old

Testament of the Bible).

The Talmud records historical evidence concerning the virgin birth, the

crucifixion, and the disciples of Jesus Christ.

The Talmud states, "It has been taught: On the eve of Passover they hanged

Yeshu (Jesus).

The word "Yeshu" translates into the English name Jesus. It is reported that

in some versions, this text reads "Yeshu the Nazarene". This Jewish

description of the crucifixion of Christ confirms that Jesus did exist in

history as a religious leader and teacher, one who did miracles, was charged

by his own people and then handed over to be crucified on the cross by the

Roman government. This passage demonstrates and confirms the historical

presence and facts concerning the crucifixion of Jesus Christ.

Who was Josephus? Josephus ben Matthias, born only a few years after the death

and resurrection of Christ was a religious politician and Jew.

Josephus was a Jewish historian in the employ of the Roman emperor, and after

gaining favor in the eyes of the emperor Flavius was actually given his name.

Hence, he became Flavius Josephus and during his employ composed two large

works: The Jewish War and The Jewish Antiquities.

In The Jewish Antiquities, a passage reads, "Now there was about this time

Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of

wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He

drew over to him both many of the Jews, and many of the Gentiles. He was the

Christ, and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men among us, had

condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake

him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; as the divine prophets

had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And

the tribe of Christians so named from him are not extinct at this day."

As Josh McDowell states, "So even the great first-century Jewish historian

Josephus, writing just a little more than half a century after Jesus’ life and

crucifixion, attests to the truth that Jesus was not a figment of the church’s

imagination but a real historical figure."

Even more important that these secular writings and witnesses are the

scriptural evidences given to us that Jesus is the Christ.

Yes it's easy for Christian's to believe in God, based on faith and it's also understandable that non believes think faith is hog wash. One thing I don't understand is how a person can downplay faith that God created the universe... but they have believe that the earth just began on its on? To me it takes more faith to believe that all this just happened... than it does that someone created it.

I agree with you 100% with everything....and it takes a lot more faith for me to believe that the earth created itself.....most definitely. I loved your response/post.... very informational, just great. thank you.

I have to agree with you, Derick's LBT's funny man. Even if you don't agree with his POV, he can still crack you up. :clap2:

OH YEAH!!!!!!!! I was falling off my chair yesterday and laughing out loud reading his presidential post..... I was at work and people were asking me if I was ok.....oh man, he's got a way with words , he needs to become a writter...unless he is already one...?

Love it!

Unlike many other Atheists, I don't doubt that Jesus existed. I just doubt that he was who he said he was or that he could do the things he said he could. I personally feel that he was like any other cult leader.

I agree with you 100% with everything....and it takes a lot more faith for me to believe that the earth created itself.....most definitely. I loved your response/post.... very informational, just great. thank you.

It takes a lot more than faith for me to believe that a god always has been or that he created himself.

This is a concept that theists don't get about atheists. They have no problem not understanding the big bang theory, they cannot comprehend the possibility of the scientific issues involved, yet they have no problem believing a god has always been around and created the world in seven days.

You don't know how the earth created itself and I don't know how a god created himself. See the issue?