OK gym / cross fit guys, my cross fit coach recommended taking catalyst 15 minutes before exercise or training to lean out more as well as increase reps, speed and weights. Have you used this? Does it work for you? I bought a bottle and will try it out today. Looks like it is basically amino acids you can only get from supplements. Reviews on Amazon seem to praise it. Let me know your thoughts.

Looking at it, it looks decent, amino acids and such. Not sure about some of the claims to retain muscle mass while cutting body fat, that's usually where I draw a line between something that's going to work and something that's just using marketing ploy to draw in customers. With stuff like this it's basically trial and error. Just taking a BCAA supplement works well for me, and it's cheaper than some of the prices I've seen for catalyst. Honestly I can't say one way or another about it because I've never even heard of it until now. I did read where several trainers are pushing the product, makes me thing of 24 hour fitness and their product line of supplements, all their trainers push those things so hard it's pathetic.

These are magic pills (for me). They may not work the same way for everyone.

I took these before my 5 k run today and ran 6:50 min mile without fatiguing. It was ammmaaazing. Legs felt perfectly mobile in joints and muscles.

After about 20 min 5 k, I hopped on my ellyptical for another 25 minutes at level 7 on hill program. I usually can never do level 7. This stuff made my cardio exercise feel like nothing ( was still sweating a river though). I cannot wait to use catalyst before cross fit tomorrow and see how it helps with burpees and Olympic lifts ( 2 of my cross fit weaknesses) as well as pull ups. I have high hopes.

Kind of expensive stuff, but can replace my previous pre-workout drinks (c4).

Looking at it' date=' it looks decent, amino acids and such. Not sure about some of the claims to retain muscle mass while cutting body fat, that's usually where I draw a line between something that's going to work and something that's just using marketing ploy to draw in customers. With stuff like this it's basically trial and error. Just taking a BCAA supplement works well for me, and it's cheaper than some of the prices I've seen for catalyst. Honestly I can't say one way or another about it because I've never even heard of it until now. I did read where several trainers are pushing the product, makes me thing of 24 hour fitness and their product line of supplements, all their trainers push those things so hard it's pathetic.[/quote']

What really is BCAA in your words? I read some online descriptions, but am by no means a molecular biology and physiology guy. Never took those classes in college.

The BCAAs are brached chain amino acids that help prevent muscle breakdown during calorie deficits and/or very intense workouts. I think they are supposed to preserve the muscle by encouraging your body to use other types of energy (like fat) during exercise instead of using muscle as energy, or at least reduce the use of muscle for energy. They are in most Protein shakes, but if you don't want to down a whole shake and want to save some calories, just taking about 5 grams or so of just the BCAAs will still help preserve muscle mass with very few calories. That's more the "bro-science" explanation but it goes something like that.............

I'll have to check into this Catalyst.....I've never heard of it.

What really is BCAA in your words? I read some online descriptions, but am by no means a molecular biology and physiology guy. Never took those classes in college.

Haha, hmm...what does BCAA NOT do would be an easier question to answer. Anything from feelings of satiety with food and insulin regulation, Calcium uptake, The biggest thing to me that it does is help replenish glycogen stores ASAP when needed. I know you hear me talk about glycogen a lot, and replenishing it and such, but that's a huge key to keeping muscle mass. Once the glycogen is drained during a workout, you start eating at the Protein complex of muscle fibers, thus the loss of overall muscle mass starts to occur. BCAAs will force glycogen in to the muscle instead of having to wait on your liver to produce more. It can fool your body thinking it has the insulin and such it needs to create a more anabolic reaction.

The great thing about BCAA is half of them included in the supplement are natural supplements created by your body, just like creatine. I stack my creatine with 4g BCAA before a workout, and then 4g after a workout, and helps a ton with recovery as well. As with anything, just make sure you get a quality BCAA powder and creatine. Creatine monohydrate has created Water retention in some people, me as well, I switched to Kre-Alkalyn creatines, smaller dosages and higher potency, love it. I have been interested in SAN V12 creatine, there are tons of great reviews on it, and a buddy of mine I train with raves about it and he's been in the IFBB circuit for years, Branch Warren, if he says it's good and I see him actually use it, its gotta mean something.

Edit to add personal rant abount supplements: all in all man, it's really up to you. I don't take my BCAA every workout, hell I probably take it twice a week? Maybe. I take creatine every single day, and protein of course, but there are so many supplements out there that are PURE junk. Go in to any GNC and they'll start hammering you, "bro...you tried this yet? You'll make all kinds of gains and build 40 pounds of muscle". Chances are, that KID working at GNC knows nothing about the complex compound of pure **** he's trying to sell. Frankly, as a personal rule, I don't buy anything or take advice about lifting from anyone who's calves are smaller than my biceps. Ask any of the sales clerks if they're taking all the products they're trying to push, and they'll say "no, but so and so is". If you have to write down on a sheet of paper everything you're taking, there's a good chance the chemicals and fillers in those supplements are doing more damage than good. It took me a LONG ass time to get my head around basic supplementation. Unless you're taking anabolics, or an extremely high amount of testosterone, there's no need to supplement past creatine, protein, and BCAA if you feel it helps. Along with your multi's, that's it.

Haha, hmm...what does BCAA NOT do would be an easier question to answer. Anything from feelings of satiety with food and insulin regulation, calcium uptake, The biggest thing to me that it does is help replenish glycogen stores ASAP when needed. I know you hear me talk about glycogen a lot, and replenishing it and such, but that's a huge key to keeping muscle mass. Once the glycogen is drained during a workout, you start eating at the Protein complex of muscle fibers, thus the loss of overall muscle mass starts to occur. BCAAs will force glycogen in to the muscle instead of having to wait on your liver to produce more. It can fool your body thinking it has the insulin and such it needs to create a more anabolic reaction.

The great thing about BCAA is half of them included in the supplement are natural supplements created by your body, just like creatine. I stack my creatine with 4g BCAA before a workout, and then 4g after a workout, and helps a ton with recovery as well. As with anything, just make sure you get a quality BCAA powder and creatine. Creatine monohydrate has created Water retention in some people, me as well, I switched to Kre-Alkalyn creatines, smaller dosages and higher potency, love it. I have been interested in SAN V12 creatine, there are tons of great reviews on it, and a buddy of mine I train with raves about it and he's been in the IFBB circuit for years, Branch Warren, if he says it's good and I see him actually use it, its gotta mean something.

Edit to add personal rant abount supplements: all in all man, it's really up to you. I don't take my BCAA every workout, hell I probably take it twice a week? Maybe. I take creatine every single day, and protein of course, but there are so many supplements out there that are PURE junk. Go in to any GNC and they'll start hammering you, "bro...you tried this yet? You'll make all kinds of gains and build 40 pounds of muscle". Chances are, that KID working at GNC knows nothing about the complex compound of pure **** he's trying to sell. Frankly, as a personal rule, I don't buy anything or take advice about lifting from anyone who's calves are smaller than my biceps. Ask any of the sales clerks if they're taking all the products they're trying to push, and they'll say "no, but so and so is". If you have to write down on a sheet of paper everything you're taking, there's a good chance the chemicals and fillers in those supplements are doing more damage than good. It took me a LONG ass time to get my head around basic supplementation. Unless you're taking anabolics, or an extremely high amount of testosterone, there's no need to supplement past creatine, protein, and BCAA if you feel it helps. Along with your multi's, that's it.

I do take the monohydrate and have been thinking of going to something else. On the Kre-Alkalyn, do you have to take it with a sugary drink? That's one of the hangups I have with monohydrate.....I now try to avoid the sugary drinks as much as possible and I'm wondering what is recommended to take with the kre-alkalyn? Thanks!

I do take the monohydrate and have been thinking of going to something else. On the Kre-Alkalyn, do you have to take it with a sugary drink? That's one of the hangups I have with monohydrate.....I now try to avoid the sugary drinks as much as possible and I'm wondering what is recommended to take with the kre-alkalyn? Thanks!

I've never taken a creatine that said I had to use a sugary drink, always thought that was stupid since the workout provides the insulin response I need to move the creatine and such anyhow and it's providing empty calories like you said, it's not a good idea. The only thing I didn't like with monohydrate was having the cycle it from time to time, but that thing again, I never really focused on. I did have problems with monohydrate and Water retention. Most creatines I'm partial to and really really like are flavored. Like ConCret creatine and others like it , its concentrated HCL creatine so there's no loading, and it's micro dosages, only downside is the price compared to monohydrate, it's at least double in many cases. I'm trying kre alkalyn pills right now, a first for me, but they were sent to me to try out and see how they work, so I'm giving them a run and see how it goes.

You gym vets are gold. Thanks for taking the time to lay it out there. Supplementation knowledge is definitely one of my weaker areas. However, I have been reading Burn the Fat, Feed the Muscle by Tom Venuto (again). I bought his eBook 1/2 a dozen years ago, but did not really let the material set in. I like his approach because it is natural and straight forward. No steroids for him. This time I am going to pay attention. Lol.

Haha, man I have to read a book AT LEAST twice to get the picture, my mind wanders off while I'm reading way too much.

Haha' date=' man I have to read a book AT LEAST twice to get the picture, my mind wanders off while I'm reading way too much.[/quote']

I know what you mean

on this topic, what creatine product would you recommend for me if I am interested in building a good athletic upper body, but do not really want to bulk out that much. From my reading of the benefits of creatine, it helps the muscles hold Water and this is not only good for pumping in front of a judge ( or on the beach), but also helps with healing the muscles faster.

I have been hearing more and more from other trainers and people on this site about the crap the GNC pushes. I was oblivious to it for a long time. So - tell me what the good alternatives are if I am unable to trust information from a GNC clerk (or any other Vitamin store clerk). I've got a lot of respect for your opinion in the area of supplements. Thanks!

I'm still experimenting with the creatine, so I don't have a ton of experience, but "Mark!" has a good bit of info about it. As for GNC, I wouldn't say that 100% of their stuff is crap, but maybe more like 90%. I think, with my limited experience with them, it's all about the bottom line and selling any and all products to all people, even if most of the products are not beneficial. I understand they want to make a profit, but I really don't think they have ANY concern for their customer's best interest......I mean 0%, which seems pretty obvious when spending time with the store reps, at least with the one's I've met. I went there twice in a month probably a year ago and haven't been back since and will never go back. I just need to feel that the people there know what they are talking about and be up front with me, not like a car salesman. If I get the feeling someone is just trying to push something on me to get commission, well I naturally feel that they don't give a rip about me. Just my 2 cents.......

I'm still experimenting with the creatine, so I don't have a ton of experience, but "Mark!" has a good bit of info about it. As for GNC, I wouldn't say that 100% of their stuff is crap, but maybe more like 90%. I think, with my limited experience with them, it's all about the bottom line and selling any and all products to all people, even if most of the products are not beneficial. I understand they want to make a profit, but I really don't think they have ANY concern for their customer's best interest......I mean 0%, which seems pretty obvious when spending time with the store reps, at least with the one's I've met. I went there twice in a month probably a year ago and haven't been back since and will never go back. I just need to feel that the people there know what they are talking about and be up front with me, not like a car salesman. If I get the feeling someone is just trying to push something on me to get commission, well I naturally feel that they don't give a rip about me. Just my 2 cents.......

Your experience has been the same as mine for sure. The only place I've gone in to and felt the clerk knows something about what they're selling is Vitamin Shoppe and Max Muscle. GNC has been nothing but a headache for me. Their prices are way over inflated, and their reps..well...they just don't know much except what they're reading off a brochure each week.

Fidster, if you're not worried about any Water retention, or some slight weigh gain, creatine monohydrate would serve you well, however there's a school of thought of "cycling" it, starting with a low dose, then building up, then after a few weeks cycling off and staying off for a week or so. I never really paid attention to cycling it, however I didn't take it every single day, my creatine levels and kidney function tests at the Dr. never revealed any issues.

During my last trip in to Max Muscle to pick up my Protein, the clerk threw THESE at me and asked me to try them for a month and report back my findings and such. So far, I haven't noticed much, but again, my taking of creatine is a bit sporadic. My veins in my biceps do come out a lot more during workouts, meaning there is some volumization taking place.

Another one that I've read tons of great reviews about is V12 Turbo. It's more of a pre workout with creatine in it.

Honestly, my overall best personal opinion on creatine is monohydrate is as good as it gets. There are a lot of sales gimmicks here and there for creatine this, creatine that, but monohydrate has a strong proven track record. Once I'm done with this bottle from MM, I MAY try the V12, other than that, I'm going back to the cheap 'ol school, old faithful mincronized monohydrate creatine.

If you don't wanna click the links, prices are as follows...

1000 grams of minronized monohydrate from bb.com is $28. 200 servings. .14 cents per serving.

V-12 is $36 for 50 servings. .72 cents per serving.

Max Muscle Kre Alkalyn is I think $35 for 60 servings. .59 cents per serving.

Price wise, health wise, absorption, monohydrate is the way to go.

You may notice I've spoken negatively about bodybuilding.com in the past, the forums that is. There is too much "bro-science" out there on that site. Some of the guys are legit, and have great advice, but far too many pre-pubescent 13 year olds have found their way there and pollute the good information 1000 times over. The store however, has the best prices on quality supplements, and they aren't trying to push their brand, they have every major brand on the market, and always have good deals and fast shipping.

Thanks guys, so helpful...

Not worried about slight weight gain from Water retention.

I am going to try out the AST micronized creatine for 30 days and see what impact it has on my lifting. I have already noticed catalyst making a huge difference in speed, weight and reps in my cross fit sessions. Almost 2 x improvement for my WOD from 1 session to the next where I added catalyst in between.

My goal is to transform into a good athletic build in 6 weeks. I am already noticing improvements from waist up. My PT says it can be done.

Thanks guys, so helpful...

Not worried about slight weight gain from Water retention.

I am going to try out the AST micronized creatine for 30 days and see what impact it has on my lifting. I have already noticed catalyst making a huge difference in speed, weight and reps in my cross fit sessions. Almost 2 x improvement for my WOD from 1 session to the next where I added catalyst in between.

My goal is to transform into a good athletic build in 6 weeks. I am already noticing improvements from waist up. My PT says it can be done.

I wouldn't be worried about it either. It's just water and I've noticed when I stop taking it, I'll lose 3-6 pounds (water) in a week or two. It's fairly inexpensive and I think the benefits outweigh the water gain.....after all, it's not fat gain and a little water retention is temporary.

I've got to give that CrossFit a try one day.

That's a good goal, just keep in mind, as far as muscle goes, some parts take a really long time to develop. I think everyone is different, but for me, my back development takes a REALLY REALLY long time to get it where I want. But other parts, like shoulders, are easy for me and they are more responsive. Good luck bud!

I wouldn't be worried about it either. It's just Water and I've noticed when I stop taking it' date=' I'll lose 3-6 pounds (water) in a week or two. It's fairly inexpensive and I think the benefits outweigh the water gain.....after all, it's not fat gain and a little water retention is temporary.

I've got to give that CrossFit a try one day.

That's a good goal, just keep in mind, as far as muscle goes, some parts take a really long time to develop. I think everyone is different, but for me, my back development takes a REALLY REALLY long time to get it where I want. But other parts, like shoulders, are easy for me and they are more responsive. Good luck bud![/quote']

I have not put a whole lot of thought into muscle development, but I would say front is more important to me then back at this time.