Hello, I have had jaw surgery approximately 12 days ago and though am going through an unbelievably painful recovery am glad I had it. It was necessary as my jaw was quite receded and in conjunction with my braces it was pretty much mandatory or no use getting braces to correct overbite. I have been on a strictly liquid diet and will be for another week and a bit (enjoying the weight loss), then to soft foods - at which time I will have my band filled back up to where it was prior to surgery. I would like to finish up my weight loss so was perusing the internet about no carb option for a quick few pounds loss. I came across this Dukan Diet and from the blogs that I've read it is quite encouraging. Quite a bit like Atkins MINUS the fat. Any thoughts? Anybody tried it?

Quite a bit like Atkins MINUS the fat. Any thoughts? Anybody tried it?

I know people who've switched to Dukan from Atkins, but after a couple weeks on low fat, they switched back. Their weight loss actually slowed. A two year study (by Harvard, I think) showed that people on a low carb, low fat diet improved their cholesterol by 11%, but people on Atkins (low carb, high fat) improved by 23%...and lost more weight. So, personally, I don't see the point in torturing myself with low fat.

The other *big* difference between Atkins and Dukan is that Atkins seems to stress the importance of vegetables. Even during the first 2 week, very low carb induction period, you're supposed to have 2 cups of salad every day. After the 2 weeks, you can increase it to whatever your critical carb level is. Most people try to stay under 45 carbs for faster weight loss. I eat a cup of vegetables with my lunch and another with my dinner.

Dukan, in Stage 2, mixes Protein only days with protein and vegie days (e.g. 5 days of protein only alternated with 4 days of protein and vegie).

Both work. It mainly comes down to what you can live with. Personally...I'd miss my vegies. They're the only thing that keeps me sane, although some would argue the sanity.

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Thanks for your input. I was reading on Atkins this morning that they have upped their vegetable in take. re: Dukan, the blog i was reading was so impressive. I may try Dukan for a week or two and then Atkins which I do like. I came up with a way to make lowest carb bbq sauce by combining 1 net carb ketchup with liquid smoke and perhaps some worcestershire. this would make the meat very palatable for me. I probably would tweak the Dukan diet a touch by having pork ribs with most of the fat cut off and chicken wings with skin (Atkins) not without as in Dukan.

Thanks for your input. I was reading on Atkins this morning that they have upped their vegetable in take.

Anyone who said that obviously has not read Atkins original 1972 version, which is the one I follow. He has *always* stressed adding vegetables after induction week *and* including 2 cups of salad type vegies during the first 2 induction weeks. Personally, I stay away from the Atkins site. The forum proudly announces that they only support the DANDR version (written after Atkins death).

The biggest difference between his original book and later editions (most of which were written after he died by other people) is that in his original version it's about eating cleanly and you count all carbs. In later books they talk about deducting certain carbs that 'don't count' (which is erroneous because they do count for people with metabolic disorders) so you can eat their frankenfood 'health' bars that have 27gm of carbs...but oh wait...only 3 when you deduct these 'not important' carbs. Bull...but then how can you trust anything the Atkins corporation says when it is owned by the same people who own Cinnabon.

I would recommend going to Amazon.com and getting Atkins 1972 book. My paperback finally fell apart after close to 40 years of use so I bought a hardback version for $25 and it looks like new!

I think I do have a copy of the original. I'll try and dig it out.

I know for me the Atkins and South Beach would never work becuase they require at least 2 cups of vegetables a day 1 with lunch and 1 with supper . I cant even eat 1 cup of food at a time so no way could I eat my protein and 1 cup of vegetables. And breakfast consist of basically only eggs and veggies with some cheese on them for the first 2 weeks and I cant eat eggs in the morning they get stuck. So be careful and think about all aspects before beginning a new diet fad.

I know for me the Atkins and South Beach would never work becuase they require at least 2 cups of vegetables a day 1 with lunch and 1 with supper . I cant even eat 1 cup of food at a time so no way could I eat my Protein and 1 cup of vegetables. And breakfast consist of basically only eggs and veggies with some cheese on them for the first 2 weeks and I cant eat eggs in the morning they get stuck. So be careful and think about all aspects before beginning a new diet fad.

will do. I haven't really had proper restriction yet but will be tenacious about getting it as soon as I am a bit more recovered from my jaw surgery. I go for a fill in 2 weeks.

will do. I haven't really had proper restriction yet but will be tenacious about getting it as soon as I am a bit more recovered from my jaw surgery. I go for a fill in 2 weeks.

p.s. I find it almost absolutely impossible to eat in the morning. It is very difficult to swallow Vitamins.

I know for me the Atkins and South Beach would never work becuase they require at least 2 cups of vegetables a day 1 with lunch and 1 with supper . I cant even eat 1 cup of food at a time so no way could I eat my Protein and 1 cup of vegetables. And breakfast consist of basically only eggs and veggies with some cheese on them for the first 2 weeks and I cant eat eggs in the morning they get stuck. So be careful and think about all aspects before beginning a new diet fad.

Atkins is very flexible and the 1 cup of vegies is a recommendation and not a problem for most people...including those who have the band. If it is for you, then obviously eat less. My own surgeon's plan is pretty much the same thing (3 oz protein and 1/2 c. vegies) although he's into the whole low fat thing.

Also, neither Atkins or Beach are fad diets as you seem to be implying. Fad diets are generally not nutritionally balanced and are not sustainable for more than short periods of time. Neither definition fits Atkins or South Beach.

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wow taking it a little too personal ElfiePoo.

wow taking it a little too personal ElfiePoo.

Not 'personal' at all. You stated "So be careful and think about all aspects before beginning a new diet fad" as if to imply that Dukan, Atkins and/or South Beach (the diets brought up in this thread) are fad diets. I am merely clarifying that they are not fad diets, but if you wish to perceive it as personal there is not much I can do about that.

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elfiepoo, you need to stop talking about atkins as if you are a dietician and you are speaking hard facts rather than opinions. because i can sit here all day long and cite opposing opinions.

"People need to wake up to the reality," former U.S. Surgeon General C. Everett Koop writes, that the Atkins Diet is "unhealthy and can be dangerous."

the National Academy of Sciences, the most prestigious scientific body in the United States, agrees with the AMA and the ADA in opposing the Atkins Diet. So does the American Cancer Society; and the American Heart Association; and the Cleveland Clinic; and Johns Hopkins; and the American Kidney Fund; and the American College of Sports Medicine; and the National Institutes of Health.

In fact there does not seem to be a single major governmental or nonprofit medical, nutrition, or science-based organization in the world that supports the Atkins Diet. As a 2004 medical journal review concluded, the Atkins Diet "runs counter to all the current evidence-based dietary recommendations."

follow your doctor's instructions, not some person on a discussion forum.

So true, for every so called "fact" there is an opposing one that sounds just as credible, just as official. What works for one does not necessarily work for another.

to me, Atkins, Dukan etc ARE fad diets, but that's just me. That's becuase I dont see them as a way that *I* personally can live. They look like torture to me, i'd rather be fat than live like that. But I hate rules, regulations, and above all, I just think its absolutely and utterly ridiculous that people actually believe that human beings, the ultimate opportunists, hunter gatherers (whatever you want to call it) are actaully somehow secretly programmed to live by just ONE eating philosophy. Cavemen didnt do Atkins or Dukan any more than they ate McDonalds and white bread - calories calories calories. Atkins works for some people, just like Dukan will because they genuinely do better on low carb high Protein diets, but it works for MORE people simply because its lowere calorie than what they were eating.

I think if you want to do it, do it wholeheartedly and be prepared to live by that philosophy and above all realise its not for everyone, that everyone will have a story about why its bad, or why something else is better.

for me, i'm not really a fanatic when it comes to ways of eating. I like to be able to drop pounds when needed and with me low carb seems to work well. Low calorie does as well but i find i can eat a bit more with low carb and experience the same weight loss. I know for me there always has to be an option to have something like fish and chips or mcdonalds or pizza once a week if i feel like it and i think i will always be that way. I want to finish my weight loss and always be committed to a 5 - 8 pound variable in weight. If i go over that it's quick reduction time again. My weight fluctuated when i experienced some painful things in my life. I am now much stronger and just want to get the weight off with some effort. Before my weight ballooned I was between 125-140 max for years and years. had some painful emotional things happen, broke my ankle (reached highest weight of 204) and gradually came down to 185-187 ,then would go down 10 to 177ish, up 10, down 10, up 10 - no more yo -yo dieting. I decided to get the band. Eventhough i have coasted for most of the time with the band and given a half hearted effort (i wanted to be at goal like 8 months ago) i have lost some weight and not gained anything back and i really like that. If i'm going to yo yo it is going to be in a range of 5 pounds and in the 120s - this is what i want and hope i can achieve. thanks for the input so far from all of you. I hope to hear lots more.

elfiepoo, you need to stop talking about atkins as if you are a dietician and you are speaking hard facts rather than opinions. because i can sit here all day long and cite opposing opinions. .

And I can cite just as many opposing view by experts who believe the current recommendations are the cause of obesity in this country and use the *exact* same medical studies that the traditionalist use, but come to a different conclusion.

Now...if that's what you want to believe...no problem...but do we really need to trash another WOE just because it does not agree with our own opinion...or the opinions of so-called experts?

Interesting...Atkins runs counter to evidence-based studies? Hmmm...I guess they missed the 5 year study done by Harvard (not to mention a number of other studies) that showed that a low carb, high fat diet did not result in all the problems they thought they would see. Bad cholesterol and blood sugars dropped more and more weight was lost on the low carb, high fat than the low carb, low fat. You might read "The Great Cholesterol Con" or "Why We Get Fat". You might be amazed at the questional 'studies' many of our medical communities nutritional beliefs are based on.

No, I'm not a dietician...but I am an intelligent person who loves to read and when I read things that make no sense, I go find out why. I don't just believe what someone with lots of little letters after their name says.

I'm not going to get into a peeing contest with people. Follow whatever WOE of eating you're happy with. You know, I don't go around the forum telling people that the way they're eating is wrong...but I find it highly amusing that when "Atkins" comes up, everyone crawls out of the woodwork to bash it...despite never having read his book. I have to wonder why people are so threatened by the idea that a low carb, high fat diet is actually healthy?

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Cavemen didnt do Atkins or Dukan any more than they ate McDonalds and white bread - calories calories calories. Atkins works for some people, just like Dukan will because they genuinely do better on low carb high Protein diets, but it works for MORE people simply because its lowere calorie than what they were eating.

Actually, that's not quite true. For those of us with an intolerance to the carbs found in fruits, grains and starches...the type of calories is just as important as how many. One 2 year study that just finished up this past summer showed that a person on a low cal, high fat diet could eat several hundred more calories per day than a person on a low carb, high fat diet.

On a high carb diet, I gain weight. Not everyone gets fat by overeating. Some of us got fat while we dieted, eating the diet recommended by the ADA and others of their ilk. I gained weight on Weight Watchers.

I think we should be a bit more supportive of each other and less condemning of the WOE they choose to follow...and that comment was not aimed at you Jachut. I know your feelings on low carb diets in general but you are always extremely generous and nonjudgmental (for the most part ) in your responses.

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