ouroborous

Yes, you can bulk up. It depends, like N2B8R says, on good nutrition, on reducing body fat, and also on proper amino acid balance. I focus really hard on getting enough lean Protein (that's critical!), spending enough time on the weights (I mean c'mon, you can't bulk up without SOME kind of resistance work) and I also take a couple of supplements. For me, I take Tribulus and DHEA (you probably don't want these since they're for men to bump up the testosterone), as well as a bedtime arginine blast of about 1200mg. The arginine is supposedly a growth hormone releaser (studies are conflicted about it, but at least it's not HARMFUL, since it's just an amino acid); I've noticed that when I'm taking arginine, hard workouts lead to nausea more frequently. This may sound weird or undesirable, but from what I understand, that bout of nausea is often symptomatic of a GH dump, which is one of the things you'd want in order to bulk up. Similarly, I've noticed when taking arginine that my muscles grow much faster -- I haven't measured it or done double-blinds or anything, but it SEEMS that way to me. Ultimately, I'd talk to your doc/nutritionist about this. Bottom line is that, with proper nutrition and exercise, and assuming you're in the right age bracket/don't have any illnesses or genetic conditions that would prevent it, YES, you should be able to bulk up, even after WLS.

I wasn't sure if this was a testosterone thing (and I should post it in the Man Room) or a WLS thing -- so I'm posting it here. I'm finding myself waking up earlier and earlier; today I woke up -- without an alarm clock! -- at 4:50 am! I went to bed at 11:30, and I'm not tired. I'm finding that I just don't feel like I need more than about 6 hours of sleep in a night, and that's a big change from pre-weight loss, when even with 8 hours, I felt sluggish and tired. It might also be a "getting older" thing, but c'mon -- I'm only 40. I'm not quite my parents' 80+ years, and I'm not ready to hustle over to the Old Country Buffet, nor am I going to bed at 7pm! Anyone else going through this? It's not entirely horrible, just weird. I mentioned the Man Room thing because right now my testosterone is surging too (as evidenced by a number of things I won't go into).

Well thank you for the compliments. I also unfortunately have a lot of loose skin/remaining flab on my inner thighs (I didn't snap a picture of that because I couldn't figure out how to get a G-rated one!), so I think it remains to be seen whether bodybuilding alone will solve my problems, or if I'm going to need plastic surgery.

Interestingly, I've had some hormonal difficulties in my life, with my testosterone being a tad low and my "female" hormones a tad high. It got traced down to a non-cancerous growth in my brain -- which is being treated -- but the end result was that my testosterone was always "borderline" between good enough and too low. And I always felt soft, pudgy, and not super "masculine" -- not a really defined feeling, just not always aggressive, assertive, sexual, etc. Since losing 100 lbs, my testosterone has nearly doubled, and I've noticed dramatic changes in my libido, more facial and body hair (although I'm not a yeti, thank goodness!) and much better muscle bulk and assertiveness. I spoke with my doc about it, and he wasn't surprised; he said that fat is responsible for converting (aromatizing) testosterone to estrogen, and that the number one way that guys can improve testosterone, increase libido, etc., is to lose fat -- particularly belly fat. So I wouldn't be surprised to hear about the estrogen thing. Yeah, I'm not thrilled at the idea of another major surgery. I'm going to dedicate myself to packing on as much muscle as I can -- it's a fun challenge and it will improve my health, self-confidence, and appearance. But ultimately I'm not willing to spend the rest of my life not liking my appearance, so if that means I need plastic surgery at some point in the future -- so be it.

I have thought about it. I know someone who just had "some work done" post-WLS and she is VERY happy with the results (despite the fact that post-surgical care was... not trivial). To be honest, though, that surgery scares me -- it is in some ways more of a major surgery than the VSG itself (I know it's hard to believe, but you basically get flayed, and skin loss of that magnitude is risky). Also, I guess I'm really just hoping that the skin will "pull back" on its own. I know that I'm not going to consider it for at least another six months; I'm only about a year out, and according to the BMI charts, I still have almost 40 lbs to lose (although given my build, which you can see in the picture, I'd guess that that's closer to 30 lbs). So I want to try to be patient and wait to shed some more weight; it sucks because I won't get to feel all sexy this summer -- maybe next summer? -- but at least I've filled the summer with all kinds of fun, outdoorsy physical activities. I have considered consulting my friend's plastic surgeon, but honestly how could I trust that his opinion was unbiased? Of course he's going to tell me that he could do it, and I would look FABULOUS, but how can I know he's being completely candid when he's got a financial stake in the answer? That's why I was asking here; I assume that folks on here have much more of an unbiased (and hopefully first-person) opinion on the subject.

So, I snapped two pictures, what I call the good news/bad news pictures. The good news: my chest and upper abs, as well as my arms, are looking good. I just need to bulk up the muscle a little, and I think I'll be fine. There's a TINY bit of flab around the side of my pecs, but my chest bulks up REALLY quick, so I think some flys and outer pec work should take care of that. https://picasaweb.go...feat=directlink The bad news: my belly still has a fair amount of fat, and it's starting to show a little bit of that "deflated tire" thing (WARNING: not pretty!) https://picasaweb.go...feat=directlink Also note that you can see some stretch marks where my poor abused skin was stretched out to nearly 350 pounds at my heaviest, and then shrunk back. I've literally had those since my teens, so I doubt they're going away So I'm thinking the answer to my question -- "can I just work out really hard and build muscle and burn fat, or do I need to have plastic surgery" -- is going to have to be "both." But at least I can put off the plastics for a while while I get rid of that last 20-30 pounds of stubborn fat. Who knows, maybe in that time, my skin will improve a little if I do all the right things (hydration, moisturize, avoid sun damage, etc.) I was HOPING to avoid plastics, but... oh well

So I snapped a couple of pictures, and they made it abundantly clear: it's still fat. I'll work on losing that last 25-30 pounds (it's probably more than I thought!) and building my core muscles up. If I am still having this problem in another year or so (I'm only a year out from surgery), THEN I'll consider the plastics. Thanks for all the responses!

Thanks for the response. I'll post some shirtless pics Real Soon Now . That should make it clear what I'm talking about. I'm pretty sure that it's mostly a layer of belly fat still, and the fact that my core is weak (this summer is going to be my "stop being a lazy ass summer!") makes it MUCH more apparent that that last "spare tire" is there. I guess I'm just so used to being morbidly obese -- where you don't have these little bulges... you just have one enormous giant MASS of fat! -- that I'm not used to what "close to in shape with a few trouble spots left" looks like!

You'll be able to eat almost all of your favorite foods again, eventually (not at first, of course). Just much more slowly, and in much smaller quantities. If you're like me, you may eventually find that some foods -- especially, for me, doughy, bready foods -- that you used to love just don't seem as appealing to you. These days I find myself most interested in dense Protein and vegetables. If you'd told me a year ago that I'd be passing up a dish of Pasta for a steak and some veggies, I would have called you insane, but that's me today! Of course, I CAN eat the pizza and pasta if I want to, but... I usually don't want to! As to not having anyone there... well, *HUG* from a guy all the way across the country. All I can say is -- you're doing the right thing for YOU. And if you don't have as many friends and family around you as you'd prefer right now, just keep at it -- things will change, and if you keep doing the right things, life gets a WHOLE lot better post-sleeve!

So, I'm about a year out and about 100-105 lbs down (haven't weighed lately). I'm getting to the point where "most of me" looks "pretty good" -- my face and neck are much slimmer, my legs are much slimmer and more defined, and my "gut" is way, way smaller. There is a little loose skin on my arms, thighs, and chest that I'm sure I can fix with weightlifting (and I'm getting a personal trainer and I'm going to hit the gym HARD this summer). However, now I'm down to a roll of... something around my midsection. My BMI is still 30 -- obese -- so it could well be fat. However, given my build (large, with a side of lumberjack genetics!) this is probably off; I'm probably around 28 or so "real" BMI (I should do a tank test to see!) No matter how you slice it, I still have fat to lose; my final "stopping" weight would probably be around 205-210, so I have nearly 20 more pounds to lose. That being said, what's around my tummy doesn't feel as much like fat as before. There are parts where you can pinch it and there's still clearly blubber in there, but not much. So... I'm wondering what to do about it? Just keep on trying to lose weight? And, if it's loose skin, should I be considering plastic surgery, or can I counteract it with e.g. hardcore crunches and obliques workouts? It's not much -- I've seen people with DRAMATIC aprons of loose skin, and if this IS loose skin, it's NOTHING like that, but still... I've come THIS far, I don't want to be embarrassed to be outside with my shirt off! Sorry this is rambling, and thanks in advance for any thoughts/advice. If I get up the courage, I may post a picture soon so you all can see what I'm talking about. If I get up the courage!

FWIK, surgery itself can cause "foggy brain" symptoms -- any general anesthesia carries a risk of (possibly long-term, possibly permanent) cognitive impairment. Last time I read about this, there was a recent study correlating time "under" and cognitive impairment, and it was a pretty strong association. I strongly doubt that ghrelin itself is the primary modulator for memory and concentration, because then we would have been the sharpest tacks in the drawer PRIOR to our VSG's. Now, I have a crazy-high IQ, but my memory and concentration have always been poor, to the point where I still have a diagnosis and prescription for adult ADHD floating around somewhere. My guess is that this is a case of correlation/causation confusion; weight loss and metabolism are complex enough that it's really hard to generalize from "animal models" to human metabolism. In another ten years, when we have long-term meta-studies of VSG patients available, we'll know more, but right know I'm pretty sure that the costs/risks of obesity FAR outweigh (heh) the risks of VSG.

So guys, I need some suggestions on ways to hit some "problem areas" that I've been noticing since losing 100 lbs (with maybe 15-20 more to go). Unfortunately, all the flab was hiding the fact that my muscles weren't really all that I'd hoped. My legs are/were tree trunks, probably from carrying around all that weight, but even they have shrunk tremendously. Fortunately, I'm not having too much of the "deflated balloon" look -- I think my skin will pull back nicely, despite me being 40 (we guys just have it easier than women, I think...). And the fact that my testosterone has DOUBLED on its own since losing all the weight I've lost so far should really help me out. That being said, here's what I'd like to work on this summer: Abs -- despite not having that "crepe paper" loose skin, I still have some pinchable skin, and rather than let it get all saggy, I'd like to give it some muscle to adhere to. Are crunches the best things for upper/mid/lower abs? What about obliques? I want to be balanced. Arms -- I don't want the typical "wannabe weightlifter" arms -- huge biceps and measly tri's/delts. I'd also like to get some good muscle in my forearms, but I'm thinking that general lifting should take care of that. Shoulders -- I really have problems (esp. as I get older) with sore/popping delts and tris when I do focused lifting in these areas, so I need a good, relatively safe/low impact workout Neck -- before the WLS, my neck looked fine. But since the loss, my neck looks MUCH slimmer, which is generally a good thing except that I think it's TOO slim, plus I have a HUGE head (seriously: size XXL hats!) so I'm worried I'll get a bit of an "orange on a toothpick" look going on. What's good for (safely) bulking up the neck muscles; traps (shrugs)? What else? Legs -- I want to really work on my glutes and hamstrings and calves. My quads are still pretty strong from carrying around all that weight. I wouldn't mind working out the inner thigh too, to counteract some loose skin there. Given that I'm looking for basically "whole body toning," and given that I'm not super eager to spend all my time in a gym (I have a life), I wonder if you guys have suggestions for "natural" workouts that would hit these problem areas. By "natural" workouts, I mean things like bicycling, batting cages, martial arts, etc. Stuff I could do that's fun (I find weight lifting to be about the most boring thing on earth) and also will really exhaust and build up my muscles. Thanks in advance, I know this is sort of rambling, but it's been YEARS since I took bodybuilding seriously, and I'm struggling to figure out how to get back into it in my middle age. Just because I'm getting older doesn't mean I have to give up. One thing that I have on my side, btw, is that I'm naturally a mesomorph -- built broad (for my height) and easily building either muscle or fat. So I figure that if I can find a routine that I can stick with (IE, it's not too boring/doesn't take up ALL of my time/doesn't require incredibly expensive equipment), I should be able to bulk back up and fight off a little of the effects of aging. For a while. Edit: oh, I should add that I'm in Seattle, which means that my available "outdoor time" each year is limited to maybe 6-8 weeks. So whatever routine I figure out, the bulk of it has to be something that I can do indoors, or at least under a cover. That doesn't mean I would mind a little sun for the few months of good weather that we DO get, though!

Well, I'm two inches shorter than you and was 100 lbs less than you, and I was able to lose 100 lbs -- and I'm still going, although it's slowed way, way down. So I think you should be able to EASILY get into the mid 200's. And no, wanting to live a more "normal" life is not at all asking too much. I'm STILL amazed that I fit in plane seats/theater seats (although since I'm still broad shouldered, that's still a problem; if you're built similarly, you may have similar issues!) and buy clothes from "normal" stores (IE, I don't have to make a beeline for the "big and tall" section these days, I just wear normal L/XL clothes). It's a really nice feeling, and it is a HUGE psychological shift. I actually found that I had a brief phase of panic, because I got so used to thinking of myself as a really "big guy" that losing 100 lbs made me question that. Now I know that I'm still a "big guy" but that these days "big" doesn't necessarily mean "grossly obese!" It's a GOOD thing...

I'd highly recommend checking with your doctor, especially for the heavy stuff (deadlift is something that I could see increasing the intrathoracic pressure to the point of causing injury if you do it too soon) and the core stuff. Arms/shoulders stuff should be okay, as well as calves, but again -- ask your doc. According to my doc, at 6 weeks, the VSG incision is at 90%+ of its original strength, and after a couple months it's as strong or stronger than the original tissue, but still -- check with a doc. Your mileage may vary. And it's better to be safe than sorry; injury will sideline you for much longer than the VSG alone would.

Also, to the medical geeks out there, my total blood testosterone went from just over 300 prior to the VSG, to just under 600 about 9 months later (and holding steady). The end result is that EVERYTHING is harder and firmer and, well, bigger, down there, and my morning wood is back (yay!) and my muscles and endurance are showing the improvement, as is my mood and concentration. And my libido is... slightly crazy. The only downside is that I now actually NEED to shave at least once a day, and if I'm not careful, I'll grow hair from all kinds of awkward places. But that's a small price to pay! So, while I wouldn't say I'm a teenager again (heck, I was obese as a teenager; I never WAS a teenager in that sense!) -- I'm not stupid and impulsive and rude -- I will say that losing 100+ pounds has been the best thing that ever happened to my sex life. Period. I only wish I could have had this when I was in my 20's instead of at age 40... but I'm still not going to pass up on the fun

I've actually found very little problems with ANY amount of Fluid, as long as I don't drink too fast. Now, solids -- yeah, I fill up really fast and get stuck easy. But fluids? Even carbonated fluids? No problem. That being said, Diet Coke is pretty much undrinkable (and it used to be just about my favorite) these days because of the acid, not the carbonation. It just kills me...

Seriously? There are guys who drop their drawers around their ankles? I'm an "over the top" kinda guy, for a number of reasons I won't go into (some of which would sound like bragging, too), but I've never had a problem with my boxers staying anywhere except right on my hips & ass. I find it way more annoying to go digging around and trying to "thread the needle" than I do just pulling the elastic down a couple inches in front.

Yeah, I'd wait and follow the doc's orders *to the letter*. There will be plenty of time to go pound the iron later, tiger. Health and safety first; if you tear an incision due to overdoing it, you'll be out of commission for a lot more than 18 days

Hate to be a downer, but ... how old are ya? Unfortunately, gravity takes its toll on us guys just like it does for the gals. It's just that for guys, it's OTHER things that sag with time. And post-weight loss, sometimes "the boys" get bigger (has to do with higher levels of protoandrogens due to reduced fat), which unfortunately... can make them hang lower (although that's not usually too noticeable; it's more likely just gravity).

http://www.scienceda...10419003651.htm Interesting; note that this isn't saying "carbs are bad," but for fatty liver (hepatostearosis), which many/most of us likely had or have, it DOES imply that low carb diets may be the best way to improve that condition. Considering that an alarmingly large number of obese people die of liver failure, this is important information, and one more piece of good news for those of us on the road to "normalsville."

I was having lunch with a group of coworkers recently, and the topic turned to weight loss, so naturally my sleeve experiences interested them (I don't hide the fact that I had WLS). One of the guys I work with is VERY fit, trim and relatively muscular (not bodybuilder level, but just in shape); I've seen him in the locker room at the gym in our building. He told me that according to his doc's BMI charts, he's overweight and needs to lose weight. Moral of the story; if people like that are "fat" then... well... the whole scale is suspect, to me. I think I'll focus on being healthy and feeling good.

Not terribly concerned if the only significant side effect is a perception of being cold. I'll stack that up against diabetes & heart disease any day. Metabolism is complex, so I wouldn't at all be surprised to find other complex systemic effects like this.

Thanks for all the kind words!

So here's a fun "problem" to have since losing 100 lbs. I now really need to start buying tailored clothes if I want them to fit! Across the chest and shoulders, I'm still an XL. I can fit into some L shirts, but it's really pulling tightly in those areas. However -- and this is the amazing bit -- in the midsection, I wear a L and increasingly a M. So if I buy size XL shirts and jackets, they are huge and baggy and billowy around my stomach; it looks like I'm trying to hide a gut that I simply no longer have. However if I buy size L or M shirts, they fit around my tummy except that my chest and shoulders pull them so tight that they ride up and look like I'm wearing a cutoff! This is a WONDERFUL problem to have. I used to just wear 2XL and 2XLT shirts to cover my gut and man-boobs and back fat. And that was okay because I was just big all over, so I could just buy "size huge" and know it would basically "fit" (like a mu mu "fits"). Now I actually have to start finding clothes that are shaped for MY body, as opposed to just giant cylinders of cloth to cover the lard. It means clothes shopping is both much harder -- I have to try on a LOT of clothing to find stuff that fits and looks nice and I like -- but also much more fun, since there's actually a chance of finding a piece of clothing that I actually like these days! Oh, and it's also nice to move from size 48 waist jeans down to being comfortable in a 38 and increasingly able to wear a 36! Holy crud, batman!

Astonishing progress! You look amazing!